Getting Aussie Citizenship By Decent And Passport For Newborn In Chiang Mai

[Vincenator]

Folks, I've just been through it all and needed to vent / save others the hassle.

My wife returned to Chiang Mai for the birth and I followed later, as it turned out... just in time.

Filled out the form 118 which I downloaded from the website and started on getting the docs together [first headache].

The info we were getting was that we needed to submit certified copies and translations. We used Language Corner on Soi 13 Nimanhaemin. They did the translation fine but gave a 'bum steer' as to the certification; they insisted that the Thai docs translations needed certification by foreign affairs office which cost us a week. We were going to just post it all off to the embassy but with only 4 weeks to get it all done I bit the bullet and decided on a day trip to BKK.

As a heads up, just get the thai docs translated and that is every document you can find that links you to the missus and the baby, that includes the marriage certificate, name change, baby's birth certificate and registration of birth (the website wont tell you that they want stuff about the missus). Luckily they accepted pdf copies that the missus scanned and sent down.

As for the Aussie docs, don't bother about getting them certified in advance. I learnt that the hard way ending up going to a solicitor to certify on the advice of the translation place (they reckon thats what others have had to do).

Sure the stuff can be posted but for peace of mind the quick trip down to BKK is worth it and can be all done easily in a day and back in Chiang Mai in the arvo.

They photocopy all the docs and certify true copies. We had the missus' dentist [thai dude] certify the photograph.

All good and in just a couple of days bubs was an Aussie with a citizenship number, they phoned.

We quickly filled out the online passport application printed it out and with the docs detailed on the website headed back to BKK to get the citizenship certificate and submit the passport application the next day [things were looking up].

First off immigration got the place of birth wrong, Chiang Rai instead of Chiang Mai, so they had to do a new certificate and hence new number. Definitely pays to check these things.

Then the passport office is a different govt dept to immigration and although they are only a few metres apart in the building they are very separate entities.

They didn't accept the photo that immigration accepted, babies head not straight enough and clothing covering the neck ( its a baby, not easy to photograph!! ) Plus they wanted the marriage certificate and the missus' name change certificate [not mentioned in their website!]. I told them that there was no reference to that in the website but the chick just repeated that it is needed! I asked about sending scanned copies and got a flat NO come in with original and translation! I made it clear that its not that simple coming from Chiang Mai for this. I told her about how immigration accepted scans. She went away and came back 1/2hr later saying my supervisor said it might be ok to take the scanned docs but I had to write out some declaration form stating why I was submitting pdf scans, but the photo had to be redone. Yet they accepted the verified photo same as used for citizenship by immigration.

It took a lot of photographs but we eventually got lucky with one shot [placed bubs on white sheet and with rapid fire photography took shots from above]. Scanned the marriage certificate and missus' name change and translations and emailed them and posted off the photos via EMS (overnight). Got no reply from the embassy of receiving the stuff and had to ring them only to get a reply of its all been received and sent to Canberra in a 'why are you asking' type of manner.

So lessons to be learnt are to just get the thai stuff translated, let the embassy do the certifying and photcopying, get docs to link you to your missus and to verify who she is (even though citizenship by decent only requires one parent to be an Aussie), bite the bullet and go down to the embassy yourself, pay cash, double check what they give you, treat the passport application as if you are going through the citizenship process again, and take hundreds of photos to get that one perfect shot.

Good luck

[Suradit69]

"even though citizenship by decent only requires one parent to be an Aussie"

I'm sure both parents are quite decent, but surely citizenship is conferred based on descent.

[David48]

Since most of the hassle revolves around the baby photo, maybe you can post an image of the one that the relevant department found acceptable?

I will have to do what you did one day, so thanks for forewarning us of your issues.

.

[krisb]

Why didn't you do it in Australia?

[krisb]

"even though citizenship by decent only requires one parent to be an Aussie"

 

I'm sure both parents are quite decent, but surely citizenship is conferred based on descent.

Confused me. What you mean?

[whybother]

Why didn't you do it in Australia?

Probably because that would involve travelling to Australia.

[whybother]

"even though citizenship by decent only requires one parent to be an Aussie"

I'm sure both parents are quite decent, but surely citizenship is conferred based on descent.

Confused me. What you mean?

Note the spelling difference between "decent" (nice) and "descent" (down).

[Vincenator]

Yep I spelt descent wrong. Gotta love sleep deprivation.

The bubs photo ended up looking like a professional passport photo. Took a while . Next trick was to ensure photo lab printed the right size, they like to go bigger than the mandatory 32-36mm chin to top.

And yeah it maybe easier in aust but its easier on the missus for the birth to be here in CM.

All's well that ends well

[GrantSmith]

It definitely pays to make sure you check the stuff the embassy staff give you, had a similar issue with my freedom to marry stat dec...

I'd put a 2 where a 5 should have been on my passport, the embassy staffer - holding my passport in front of her whilst checking the form - also didn't pick this up.

Fortunately I live in BKK so not an issue, just a pain in the arse...

[krisb]

Why didn't you do it in Australia?

 

Probably because that would involve travelling to Australia.

Yes true but that probably would be happening at a guess.

[whybother]

Why didn't you do it in Australia?

Probably because that would involve travelling to Australia.

Yes true but that probably would be happening at a guess.

They would need to get a passport of some kind (ie Thai) to travel to Aus anyway. Would it be any easier to do in Aus? What if they needed documentation that was in Thailand?

[Chao Lao Beach]

Quote from OP: "All good and in just a couple of days bubs was an Aussie with a citizenship number, they phoned."

What is a citizenship number? Is Mz Gillard branding everyone with a ID card style number there now? <deleted> is this about?

[krisb]

Some reason the edit function doesn't work on the tv app anymore.

Op my point is your daughter needs a Thai passport which you have to get correct? Then once she's here in Australia get her Aussie citizenship. Just saves those headaches in Thai gov't offices. Same if she was born here in Australia it's easier getting her Thai citizenship done here, but yes I understand your wife having it in CM. BTW your eligible for the 5grand baby bonus. You have 52 weeks from birth to lodge the paperwork.

[krisb]

Quote from OP: "All good and in just a couple of days bubs was an Aussie with a citizenship number, they phoned."

 

What is a citizenship number? Is Mz Gillard  branding everyone with a ID card style number there now?  <deleted> is this about?

Our government always has. Even born here you get a number. Tax file numbers, Medicare numbers, so it goes on. Probably same as every country in the world.

[samran]

Some reason the edit function doesn't work on the tv app anymore.

Op my point is your daughter needs a Thai passport which you have to get correct? Then once she's here in Australia get her Aussie citizenship. Just saves those headaches in Thai gov't offices. Same if she was born here in Australia it's easier getting her Thai citizenship done here, but yes I understand your wife having it in CM. BTW your eligible for the 5grand baby bonus. You have 52 weeks from birth to lodge the paperwork.

Having registered my two children via BKK, I'd say BKK would be easiest.

There is probably a way to do it in OZ, but that would be significantly more hassel, especially getting the translations certified by a registered translator accridited by DIMA or DFAT. Plus there is the cost of those translations and certification down in OZ. Much more pricey than in Thailand.

The Aus embassy in Thailand is well placed to handle the Thai documentation side of things. And as others have said, even if the baby got a Thai passport to travel to Australia, it would still need a visa (given it doesn't get become an Australian citizen until the citizenship via descent is conferred). Thus, even more paperwork that you'd have to do via BKK anyway.

[Chao Lao Beach]

No, you apply for a medicare card and receive a number.

Same for a Tax file Number.

Same for a Driving license number.

You apply for a Passport and get a PP number etc.

What is this Citizenship Number? There have been several attempts to bring in a Thai style number that covers everything, maybe it is starting now?

This can't be a visa number as the infant does not need a visa. It is possible it is an internal reference number for each case in Imm I spose.

Edited May 11, 2013 by Chao Lao Beach

[whybother]

No, you apply for a medicare card and receive a number.

Same for a Tax file Number.

Same for a Driving license number.

You apply for a Passport and get a PP number etc.

What is this Citizenship Number? There have been several attempts to bring in a Thai style number that covers everything, maybe it is starting now?

This can't be a visa number as the infant does not need a visa. It is possible it is an internal reference number for each case in Imm I spose.

Maybe it's something you get when you apply for citizenship. If you're born in Aus to Aus parents (or whatever the rules are), you don't need to apply for citizenship, so you don't get a citizenship number.

[samran]

no such thing as citizenship number.

TFN's and Medicare numbers can be issued to non-citizens as well, so the only thing that denotes you as an Australian citizen is either the extract of citizenship by descent certificate (if born OS to Australian parents), your naturalisation certifcate (if you are a migrant) or if born in OZ - whether you were born prior to 20th August 1986 (in which case you are automatically an Australian citizen by virtue of being born on Australian soil) or post 20/08/86 by which you are an Australian citizen if born to at least one Australian parent or PR.

Edited May 11, 2013 by samran

[krisb]

No, you apply for a medicare card and receive a number.

Same for a Tax file Number.

Same for a Driving license number.

You apply for a Passport and get a PP number etc.

 

What is this Citizenship Number?  There have been several attempts to bring in a Thai style number that covers everything, maybe it is starting now?

 

This can't be a visa number as the infant does not need a visa.   It is possible it is an internal reference number for each case in Imm I spose.

You also apply for citizenship.

[krisb]

Some reason the edit function doesn't work on the tv app anymore.

Op my point is your daughter needs a Thai passport which you have to get correct? Then once she's here in Australia get her Aussie citizenship. Just saves those headaches in Thai gov't offices. Same if she was born here in Australia it's easier getting her Thai citizenship done here, but yes I understand your wife having it in CM. BTW your eligible for the 5grand baby bonus. You have 52 weeks from birth to lodge the paperwork.

 

Having registered my two children via BKK, I'd say BKK would be easiest.

 

There is probably a way to do it in OZ, but that would be significantly more hassel, especially getting the translations certified by a registered translator accridited by DIMA or DFAT. Plus there is the cost of those translations and certification down in OZ. Much more pricey than in Thailand.

 

The Aus embassy in Thailand is well placed to handle the Thai documentation side of things. And as others have said, even if the baby got a Thai passport to travel to Australia, it would still need a visa (given it doesn't get become an Australian citizen until the citizenship via descent is conferred). Thus, even more paperwork that you'd have to do via BKK anyway.

ok, I would have thought like my daughter getting her Thai citizenship here in Australia. Much easier than getting it done in Thailand.

[krisb]

no such thing as citizenship number.

 

TFN's and Medicare numbers can be issued to non-citizens as well, so the only thing that denotes you as an Australian citizen is either the extract of citizenship by descent certificate (if born OS to Australian parents), your naturalisation certifcate (if you are a migrant) or if born in OZ - whether you were born prior to 20th August 1986 (in which case you are automatically an Australian citizen by virtue of being born on Australian soil) or post 20/08/86 by which you are an Australian citizen if born to at least one Australian parent or PR.

It's a citizenship reference number he must be referring to.

[Vincenator]

Dunno what all the fuss about the citizenship number is? its like a receipt, simple, no big issue.

Thai passport was too easy, we had 4-5 chicks in the passport office hanging around all excited by bubs and they had to take a photo for the thai passport. A far inferior photo to ours for the Aust passport, but they weren't too fussed. They were happy to have bubs eyes closed, head slightly turned and a bit of clothing in the way.... its a baby's photo after all and they don't pose too readily.

So bubs flies out on the Thai passport and into Aust on the Aust passport, no visas to deal with.

[PlastikbinLina]

Yes, it's not as difficult as one would expect it to be to get a child Citiznship by Descent. In 1995 when my first child from my defacto Thai partner was born I simply took the birth registration papers original and translated to the Australian Emabassy and withinn a very short time was issued with a document Extract from Register of Citizenship by Descent.

Supapon or Emma as we know her was born 29 December 1995 and the certificate was issued on 2 February 1996.

Again on November 10 1998 and working in Ujung Pandang Indonesia when my second Thai daughter Alice was born we sent the Salvation Army Catherine Booth Hospital birth certificate to the Australian Embassy Jakarta. Indonesia does not issue government birth certificates to foreigners so the hospital birth paper was accepted without question along with my defacto's Thai Passport as her ID.. Alice got her Australian Exract from Register of Citizenship and passport on 10 November We eventually married in Australia in 2002

The only requirement in both cases was to have the birth papers translated and by an authorised Translation service recognised by the Australian Embassy.

Edited May 11, 2013 by PlastikbinLina

[Vincenator]

Some reason the edit function doesn't work on the tv app anymore.

Op my point is your daughter needs a Thai passport which you have to get correct? Then once she's here in Australia get her Aussie citizenship. Just saves those headaches in Thai gov't offices. Same if she was born here in Australia it's easier getting her Thai citizenship done here, but yes I understand your wife having it in CM. BTW your eligible for the 5grand baby bonus. You have 52 weeks from birth to lodge the paperwork.

Having registered my two children via BKK, I'd say BKK would be easiest.

There is probably a way to do it in OZ, but that would be significantly more hassel, especially getting the translations certified by a registered translator accridited by DIMA or DFAT. Plus there is the cost of those translations and certification down in OZ. Much more pricey than in Thailand.

The Aus embassy in Thailand is well placed to handle the Thai documentation side of things. And as others have said, even if the baby got a Thai passport to travel to Australia, it would still need a visa (given it doesn't get become an Australian citizen until the citizenship via descent is conferred). Thus, even more paperwork that you'd have to do via BKK anyway.

ok, I would have thought like my daughter getting her Thai citizenship here in Australia. Much easier than getting it done in Thailand.

Yep. passports.gov.au - states that newborns born to Aussies overseas need their own passport to enter and therefore on a thai passport would need to enter on a visa; ie making more work than necessary

[simple1]

No, you apply for a medicare card and receive a number.

Same for a Tax file Number.

Same for a Driving license number.

You apply for a Passport and get a PP number etc.

What is this Citizenship Number? There have been several attempts to bring in a Thai style number that covers everything, maybe it is starting now?

This can't be a visa number as the infant does not need a visa. It is possible it is an internal reference number for each case in Imm I spose.

Sounds like some confusion. The Australian citizenship certificate is issued with a unique reference number. e.g. Used for issuing passports or should your passport be lost or stolen it can utilised as ID reference when applying for a full replacement passport, if you were not born in Australia. i.e. do not have an Australian birth certificate.

[krisb]

Some reason the edit function doesn't work on the tv app anymore.

Op my point is your daughter needs a Thai passport which you have to get correct? Then once she's here in Australia get her Aussie citizenship. Just saves those headaches in Thai gov't offices. Same if she was born here in Australia it's easier getting her Thai citizenship done here, but yes I understand your wife having it in CM. BTW your eligible for the 5grand baby bonus. You have 52 weeks from birth to lodge the paperwork.

 

Having registered my two children via BKK, I'd say BKK would be easiest.

 

There is probably a way to do it in OZ, but that would be significantly more hassel, especially getting the translations certified by a registered translator accridited by DIMA or DFAT. Plus there is the cost of those translations and certification down in OZ. Much more pricey than in Thailand.

 

The Aus embassy in Thailand is well placed to handle the Thai documentation side of things. And as others have said, even if the baby got a Thai passport to travel to Australia, it would still need a visa (given it doesn't get become an Australian citizen until the citizenship via descent is conferred). Thus, even more paperwork that you'd have to do via BKK anyway.

Don't think baby needs a visa.

[Chao Lao Beach]

OK, makes sense.

[samran]

Krisb - all foreign nationalities, with the exception of New Zealanders, need a pre arranged visa to enter Australia. Age is of no significance.

[BudfahRuksa]

Yes, it's not as difficult as one would expect it to be to get a child Citiznship by Descent. In 1995 when my first child from my defacto Thai partner was born I simply took the birth registration papers original and translated to the Australian Emabassy and withinn a very short time was issued with a document Extract from Register of Citizenship by Descent.

Supapon or Emma as we know her was born 29 December 1995 and the certificate was issued on 2 February 1996.

Again on November 10 1998 and working in Ujung Pandang Indonesia when my second Thai daughter Alice was born we sent the Salvation Army Catherine Booth Hospital birth certificate to the Australian Embassy Jakarta. Indonesia does not issue government birth certificates to foreigners so the hospital birth paper was accepted without question along with my defacto's Thai Passport as her ID.. Alice got her Australian Exract from Register of Citizenship and passport on 10 November We eventually married in Australia in 2002

The only requirement in both cases was to have the birth papers translated and by an authorised Translation service recognised by the Australian Embassy.

Im wondering If thngs may have changed since 1995/1998. I am in a similar situation to what you were PlastikbinLina in that I am not married to my thai gf eventhough I am open to it If helps bub get her citizenship. My baby girl was born Oct 4 I flew in Oct 8 for 4 weeks to be here for the birth and help mum.. We spoke about dual citizenship and we both agree this is what we want for baby. My gf has lived with me in australia for 3 months on a tourist visa but had to return back to Thailand. So now after the birth and while I am sitting around wanted to get the ball rolling downloaded form 118 after email to embassy in regards to baby bonus etc. I am waiting to call Immigration and citizenship at 2.30 pm. It would seem that I will have a problem with the Identity declaration in that no Australian citizen here knows of baby to sign such declaration. Any ideas guys? I was planning on coming back in march next year to bring them home to QAustralia but IF I can sort out the citizenship + passport before I go it will be a bonus Cheers and Thx in advance.

[simple1]

Yes, it's not as difficult as one would expect it to be to get a child Citiznship by Descent. In 1995 when my first child from my defacto Thai partner was born I simply took the birth registration papers original and translated to the Australian Emabassy and withinn a very short time was issued with a document Extract from Register of Citizenship by Descent.

Supapon or Emma as we know her was born 29 December 1995 and the certificate was issued on 2 February 1996.

Again on November 10 1998 and working in Ujung Pandang Indonesia when my second Thai daughter Alice was born we sent the Salvation Army Catherine Booth Hospital birth certificate to the Australian Embassy Jakarta. Indonesia does not issue government birth certificates to foreigners so the hospital birth paper was accepted without question along with my defacto's Thai Passport as her ID.. Alice got her Australian Exract from Register of Citizenship and passport on 10 November We eventually married in Australia in 2002

The only requirement in both cases was to have the birth papers translated and by an authorised Translation service recognised by the Australian Embassy.

Im wondering If thngs may have changed since 1995/1998. I am in a similar situation to what you were PlastikbinLina in that I am not married to my thai gf eventhough I am open to it If helps bub get her citizenship. My baby girl was born Oct 4 I flew in Oct 8 for 4 weeks to be here for the birth and help mum.. We spoke about dual citizenship and we both agree this is what we want for baby. My gf has lived with me in australia for 3 months on a tourist visa but had to return back to Thailand. So now after the birth and while I am sitting around wanted to get the ball rolling downloaded form 118 after email to embassy in regards to baby bonus etc. I am waiting to call Immigration and citizenship at 2.30 pm. It would seem that I will have a problem with the Identity declaration in that no Australian citizen here knows of baby to sign such declaration. Any ideas guys? I was planning on coming back in march next year to bring them home to QAustralia but IF I can sort out the citizenship + passport before I go it will be a bonus Cheers and Thx in advance.

Just to clarify a few matters, are you saying baby was born in Thailand, if so are you named as the father on the birth certificate? How can you claim the baby bonus if baby is not an Australian resident?