Will HSBC return to Thailand?

[fletchsmile]

Show me a bank that offers better instant international transfers than citi right now...

Transfered 133,000thb today from SIN got 30.55 to US dollar on the transfer. U can't find better any bank..technically not free but way "free" more than anyone else

Are you saying that Citi has a good process and easy/ convenient to transfer? or are you saying they give good rates? Citi and HSBC used to be good on convenience for international transfers but poor on rates

The rates don't look that great to me. I'm not clear from your post what exactly your transaction was though. Were you buying or selling THB?

Also: From the way you've written it you transferred THB 133,000 from Singapore which was exchanged to USD here in Thailand. Doesn't really make sense why anyone would do that, as it's better to keep your USD in Singapore and THB in Thailand. Why hold your THB in Singapore then transfer it to Thailand for USD?

Cheers

Fletch

[negreanu]

Are you saying that Citi has a good process and easy/ convenient to transfer?

Yes. I know of no other way that is better to internationally transfer to Thailand instantly that gives a better rate and no additional fee.

I am paid in USD in Singapore. USD->THB transfer to Thailand. Cant remember what the rate was yesterday I think 30.85 but I got 30.55 using citi.

So is there another method to use that offers a better rate with on fees to transfer funds to Thailand?? (Preferably instant?)

[fletchsmile]

Are you saying that Citi has a good process and easy/ convenient to transfer?

Yes. I know of no other way that is better to internationally transfer to Thailand instantly that gives a better rate and no additional fee.

I am paid in USD in Singapore. USD->THB transfer to Thailand. Cant remember what the rate was yesterday I think 30.85 but I got 30.55 using citi.

So is there another method to use that offers a better rate with on fees to transfer funds to Thailand?? (Preferably instant?)

I agree with you swift transfer is convenient and gets a good rate, so the method is sound.

Your rate didn't look as good as it could be though, and as mentioned HSBC and Citi generally don't give the best interest rates and FX rates. If you looked at Friday's average TT rates per BOT 30.55 looks a bit low. Appreciate that was Friday, but rates didn't move much yesterday.

Usually you get better rates from local banks

http://www.bot.or.th/English/Statistics/FinancialMarkets/ExchangeRate/_layouts/application/exchangerate/exchangerate.aspx

Also other ways to improve a little: if you transfer larger amounts and/or have priority/premium banking then you should be able to get better rates. My relationship manager always calls/ contacts me and checks the rate.

With Stan Chart as a priority banking customer, if I transfer to another Stan Chart account they waive the fees as a priority banking customer - saves about $15. Then the RM calls about the rate. The main disadvantage is I have to fax instructions to my Singapore RM for the free transfer.

Cheers

Fletch

[Psych01]

@Fletch.

I used to work for HSBC Premier UK, at the Canford Cliffs branch in Poole.

All HSBC Premier customers/clients were able to open an account in any country they spend time in, providing they met the criteria of their relevant home country. They were also allowed to transfer up to 10k GBP -- or the relevant country's daily max - - per day at no fee charged, the transfer would be in their account the following business day.

When this branch was originally opened it caused a bit of controversy in the U.K. and internationally, back in 2008. The following year due to the new strategy of HSBC and wealth management, they sold all their freehold properties to a subsidiary of HSBC holdings to raise capitol etc..

Another thing with the Premier account was/is, that if you are on holiday somewhere and had lost your wallet you could go into the local HSBC branch and request a new card. This would be sent out the following day to that branch, they would also advance you up to 2k GBP on the spot with presentation of a passport or a phone call to your relationship manager back home for confirmation of who you are. They do have a database linked to all HSBC branches worldwide for their Premier account holders, providing you can confirm you account details etc.

As for coming back to Thailand, I do not see it happening the same as you, due to the strategy they now believe in and also the way the Thai banking system works in the favour of Thai banks.

[chiang mai]

The only truly good part about HSBC Premier was Global View and the ability to move money between countries easily and cheaply, take that part away and/or indeed take away the ability to use HSBC in Thailand and there's nothing much left worth having that can't be fulfilled cheaper and easier with local banks.

[yoshiwara]

The only truly good part about HSBC Premier was Global View and the ability to move money between countries easily and cheaply, take that part away and/or indeed take away the ability to use HSBC in Thailand and there's nothing much left worth having that can't be fulfilled cheaper and easier with local banks.

I'll take the security of using HSBC over that of local banks any day of the week.

[chainarong]

Regardless of whether you like them or not , they wont be back in the short term, they not only pulled out of Thailand they also retrenched twenty odd thousand world wide and sold off other banking assets, lean n mean is the play word.

[chiang mai]

The only truly good part about HSBC Premier was Global View and the ability to move money between countries easily and cheaply, take that part away and/or indeed take away the ability to use HSBC in Thailand and there's nothing much left worth having that can't be fulfilled cheaper and easier with local banks.

I'll take the security of using HSBC over that of local banks any day of the week.

Yes agreed, but I think we were comparing facilities offered rather than much else.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I'm not sure what you mean by "security" with HSBC when they had retail banking operations in Thailand. When they were here, their banking products operated under Thai banking laws and regulations, meaning they followed the same rule book as the Thai banks, including the total lack of any meaningful consumer protections for account holders.

If, on the other hand, you mean HSBC as a global bank would have been less likely to go belly up or be impacted by local political/economic events in Thailand, then yes, I'd agree about that.

Separately, I always wondered about HSBC Premier and its capacity for international money transfers. I really would have liked to start out with dual $1000 or $10,000 amounts, and to have transferred one amount via HSBC Premier and the other identical amount thru BKK Bank's New York ACH transfer method, and see which produced the better return.

I never had HSBC Premier. But in my early days in Thailand, I had a U.S. HSBC account and HSBC ATM card that I sometimes tried using at the HSBC Silom HQ ATMs. And although I understood less about ATM and exchange rate issues back then, it certainly seemed at the time like HSBC was somehow giving me a meaningfully lower rate than I was getting elsewhere at the time. My suspicion was they were deducting a foreign currency fee, without listing it separately, via their lowered exchange rate.

I see HSBC U.S. currently charges the 1% or so VISA or MC fee on foreign transactions. And then for its regular accounts, adds an additional 3% foreign currency fee.... but waives the 3% fee for its Premier debit and credit Mastercards.

It looks like they say they don't charge any fees for online Global Transfers for Premier members. But it also isn't clear what kind of exchange rate they use for those transfers, either.

Foreign Transaction Fee*
If you effect a transaction on your HSBC Bank Consumer Checking or Savings account at an EFT facility with your Debit MasterCard® Card, ATM card, or your MasterCard® Card or Visa® Credit Card outside the United States, the transaction amount is further increased by a percentage established from time to time by us (currently 3%).

*This Foreign Transaction Fee does not apply to transactions using your HSBC Premier World MasterCard® card or Premier Debit MasterCard® card.

http://www.us.hsbc.com/1/2/home/customer-service/ao-online-disclosures

Edited July 3, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[chiang mai]

I'm not sure how valid the secuirty isse is any longer given that HSBC US just got hit with USD 1.92 billion fine for money laundering, "conducting transactions on behalf of customers in Burma, Cuba, Iran, Libya and Sudan"" allegedly, I mean really!

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/07/02/uk-hsbc-settlement-laundering-idUKBRE9611B820130702

[yoshiwara]

I'm not sure what you mean by "security" with HSBC when they had retail banking operations in Thailand. When they were here, their banking products operated under Thai banking laws and regulations, meaning they followed the same rule book as the Thai banks, including the total lack of any meaningful consumer protections for account holders.

If, on the other hand, you mean HSBC as a global bank would have been less likely to go belly up or be impacted by local political/economic events in Thailand, then yes, I'd agree about that.

Separately, I always wondered about HSBC Premier and its capacity for international money transfers. I really would have liked to start out with dual $1000 or $10,000 amounts, and to have transferred one amount via HSBC Premier and the other identical amount thru BKK Bank's New York ACH transfer method, and see which produced the better return.

I never had HSBC Premier. But in my early days in Thailand, I had a U.S. HSBC account and HSBC ATM card that I sometimes tried using at the HSBC Silom HQ ATMs. And although I understood less about ATM and exchange rate issues back then, it certainly seemed at the time like HSBC was somehow giving me a meaningfully lower rate than I was getting elsewhere at the time. My suspicion was they were deducting a foreign currency fee, without listing it separately, via their lowered exchange rate.

I see HSBC U.S. currently charges the 1% or so VISA or MC fee on foreign transactions. And then for its regular accounts, adds an additional 3% foreign currency fee.... but waives the 3% fee for its Premier debit and credit Mastercards.

It looks like they say they don't charge any fees for online Global Transfers for Premier members. But it also isn't clear what kind of exchange rate they use for those transfers, either.

Foreign Transaction Fee*

If you effect a transaction on your HSBC Bank Consumer Checking or Savings account at an EFT facility with your Debit MasterCard® Card, ATM card, or your MasterCard® Card or Visa® Credit Card outside the United States, the transaction amount is further increased by a percentage established from time to time by us (currently 3%).

*This Foreign Transaction Fee does not apply to transactions using your HSBC Premier World MasterCard® card or Premier Debit MasterCard® card.

http://www.us.hsbc.com/1/2/home/customer-service/ao-online-disclosures

What I mean by security is very straightforward. Where do I feel safer holding $50K+ cash in my account. HSBC or most other HK or Singapore banks, or a Thai bank. (I am not talking rates). It is not a binary issue, but one of preference. I know where mine are. Others are happy otherwise.

[yoshiwara]

I'm not sure how valid the secuirty isse is any longer given that HSBC US just got hit with USD 1.92 billion fine for money laundering, "conducting transactions on behalf of customers in Burma, Cuba, Iran, Libya and Sudan"" allegedly, I mean really!

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/07/02/uk-hsbc-settlement-laundering-idUKBRE9611B820130702

That is a dodgy geezer issue and they have been slapped for that. It doesn't make holding an account with HSBC greater at risk. However there are other HK banks for choice eg Hang Seng, BoC HK etc.

[chiang mai]

I'm not sure how valid the secuirty isse is any longer given that HSBC US just got hit with USD 1.92 billion fine for money laundering, "conducting transactions on behalf of customers in Burma, Cuba, Iran, Libya and Sudan"" allegedly, I mean really!

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/07/02/uk-hsbc-settlement-laundering-idUKBRE9611B820130702

That is a dodgy geezer issue and they have been slapped for that. It doesn't make holding an account with HSBC greater at risk. However there are other HK banks for choice eg Hang Seng, BoC HK etc.

Hang Seng is owned by HSBC.

[yoshiwara]

I'm not sure how valid the secuirty isse is any longer given that HSBC US just got hit with USD 1.92 billion fine for money laundering, "conducting transactions on behalf of customers in Burma, Cuba, Iran, Libya and Sudan"" allegedly, I mean really!

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/07/02/uk-hsbc-settlement-laundering-idUKBRE9611B820130702

That is a dodgy geezer issue and they have been slapped for that. It doesn't make holding an account with HSBC greater at risk. However there are other HK banks for choice eg Hang Seng, BoC HK etc.

Hang Seng is owned by HSBC.

Indeed that is true.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

What I mean by security is very straightforward. Where do I feel safer holding $50K+ cash in my account. HSBC or most other HK or Singapore banks, or a Thai bank. (I am not talking rates). It is not a binary issue, but one of preference. I know where mine are. Others are happy otherwise.

Feel safer about what potential problems?

--that the bank is going to fail financially?

--that some bank employee is going to loot your account?

--that the country's banking system is going to fail?

--what's going to happen after someone swipes your debit card and goes on a spending spree?

Every country, and the banks therein, has its own legal system and banking laws/protections. It seems to me the issue is in what country do you feel safer parking your money, based on all those aspects.

For any of the banks in Thailand, including HSBC when they were here, in my view, they all get a FAIL for consumer banking protections dealing with bank employee theft/fraud and protecting/reimbursing accountholders in the event of regular theft/fraudulent transactions. You're basically up the creek without a paddle in those kinds of situations here.

The Thai banks do better in terms of having a formal deposit protection law that protects accountholders against the bank's financial failure or a systemic banking failure...up to certain deposit limits per account.

But the legal system here is terrible, and the prospect of a farang trying to enforce their rights with the police and/or in court in the event of some problem is a daunting one to say the least.

For all those reasons, I'd never keep any substantial amount of money in a Thai-located bank account, HSBC or otherwise.

[yoshiwara]

What I mean by security is very straightforward. Where do I feel safer holding $50K+ cash in my account. HSBC or most other HK or Singapore banks, or a Thai bank. (I am not talking rates). It is not a binary issue, but one of preference. I know where mine are. Others are happy otherwise.

Feel safer about what potential problems?

--that the bank is going to fail financially?

--that some bank employee is going to loot your account?

--that the country's banking system is going to fail?

--what's going to happen after someone swipes your debit card and goes on a spending spree?

Every country, and the banks therein, has its own legal system and banking laws/protections. It seems to me the issue is in what country do you feel safer parking your money, based on all those aspects.

For any of the banks in Thailand, including HSBC when they were here, in my view, they all get a FAIL for consumer banking protections dealing with bank employee theft/fraud and protecting/reimbursing accountholders in the event of regular theft/fraudulent transactions. You're basically up the creek without a paddle in those kinds of situations here.

The Thai banks do better in terms of having a formal deposit protection law that protects accountholders against the bank's financial failure or a systemic banking failure...up to certain deposit limits per account.

But the legal system here is terrible, and the prospect of a farang trying to enforce their rights with the police and/or in court in the event of some problem is a daunting one to say the least.

For all those reasons, I'd never keep any substantial amount of money in a Thai-located bank account, HSBC or otherwise.

The security I am referring to is that of ATM and employee walkabouts and I am going on the reports I regularly read in ThaiVisa. Some have gotten around this problem by only drip-feeding their current account so limiting potential loss and locking up their savings somewhere else.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Yes, the method some folks here use is to keep two different accounts at the same Thai bank.

1. an account with an ATM/debit card where they keep minimal funds.

2. a savings account with no bank card, where they keep the bulk of their funds.

That approach protects against bankcard fraud and card skimming, etc etc...

But it doesn't do anything to protect against the admittedly more rare, but still occurring, instances of bank managers or employees looting the accounts of their own customers -- instances of which get reported in the news here periodically.

As I mentioned above, Thailand's government backed deposits insurance scheme protects accountholders against banks' financial failure. But it doesn't protect or insure depositors against criminal theft and fraud. Depositor beware....

[yoshiwara]

Yes, the method some folks here use is to keep two different accounts at the same Thai bank.

1. an account with an ATM/debit card where they keep minimal funds.

2. a savings account with no bank card, where they keep the bulk of their funds.

That approach protects against bankcard fraud and card skimming, etc etc...

But it doesn't do anything to protect against the admittedly more rare, but still occurring, instances of bank managers or employees looting the accounts of their own customers -- instances of which get reported in the news here periodically.

As I mentioned above, Thailand's government backed deposits insurance scheme protects accountholders against banks' financial failure. But it doesn't protect or insure depositors against criminal theft and fraud. Depositor beware....

I might tend to agree with you, but there are those whose circumstances/preference is to confine their banking to within Thailand and within those constraints I would be inclined to want to use a foreign bank (re savings) and given HSBC's withdrawal from Thailand consider an alternative foreign bank with near equivalent services in Thailand. Edited July 4, 2013 by yoshiwara

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Well, there are lots of foreign bank interests involved in nominally Thai banks... though even where the ownership is partly international, the method of the bank operating here remains Thai... for better or, more often, worse.

But things are always changing... This was in the news just the other day...

Mitsubishi UFJ to Buy Ayudhya in Biggest Thai Bank Takeover

By Monami Yui & Shigeru Sato - Jul 3, 2013 1:29 PM GMT+0700

Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group Inc. (8306) plans to buy Thailand’s Bank of Ayudhya Pcl for as much as 560 billion yen ($5.6 billion) in the largest banking takeover in the Southeast Asian nation.

Japan’s biggest bank will seek to buy as much as 75 percent of the Bangkok-based lender from shareholders including General Electric Co. (GE) through a tender offer, Mitsubishi UFJ said in a filing to the Tokyo Stock Exchange yesterday. The Japanese company plans to offer 39 baht a share for the Thai bank, or 5.4 percent more than yesterday’s closing price.

The purchase would give Mitsubishi UFJ a bigger foothold to expand retail and corporate banking in Southeast Asia’s second-biggest economy, which is forecast to expand more than three times faster than Japan’s next year. Japanese megabanks are buying assets abroad to counter the nation’s shrinking population and the lowest loan profitability in Asia.

“Bank of Ayudhya has a wide branch network and strong retail customer base that will give Mitsubishi UFJ immediate access to Thailand’s lucrative market,” said Jintana Mekintharanggur, who helps oversee about $200 million as director of equity investment at Manulife Asset Management Co. “Mitsubishi’s strong lending to large corporations, especially Japanese companies operating in Thailand, will support Ayudhya’s wholesale banking.”

MORE:

Ironically, it was Bank of Ayu that bought HSBC's Thailand retail banking operations back in Spring 2012 when HSBC exited the retail banking market here. So now BofA gets snapped up by a bigger fish... Banking's a strange world.

http://www.hsbc.co.th/1/2/bkh2/personal/announcement

BTW, I can't quite follow how, as the article above notes, Mitsu wants to buy up to a controlling 70% stake in BofA...while lower down in the same Bloomberg article, it notes that Thai law limits foreign ownership of banks here to a maximum 49% minority share... They talk about plans for merging with Mitsu's existing operation in BKK, but I can't see how that gets around the ownership limitation.

Edited July 4, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[chiang mai]

Well, there are lots of foreign bank interests involved in nominally Thai banks... though even where the ownership is partly international, the method of the bank operating here remains Thai... for better or, more often, worse.

But things are always changing... This was in the news just the other day...

Mitsubishi UFJ to Buy Ayudhya in Biggest Thai Bank Takeover

By Monami Yui & Shigeru Sato - Jul 3, 2013 1:29 PM GMT+0700

Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group Inc. (8306) plans to buy Thailand’s Bank of Ayudhya Pcl for as much as 560 billion yen ($5.6 billion) in the largest banking takeover in the Southeast Asian nation.

Japan’s biggest bank will seek to buy as much as 75 percent of the Bangkok-based lender from shareholders including General Electric Co. (GE) through a tender offer, Mitsubishi UFJ said in a filing to the Tokyo Stock Exchange yesterday. The Japanese company plans to offer 39 baht a share for the Thai bank, or 5.4 percent more than yesterday’s closing price.

The purchase would give Mitsubishi UFJ a bigger foothold to expand retail and corporate banking in Southeast Asia’s second-biggest economy, which is forecast to expand more than three times faster than Japan’s next year. Japanese megabanks are buying assets abroad to counter the nation’s shrinking population and the lowest loan profitability in Asia.

“Bank of Ayudhya has a wide branch network and strong retail customer base that will give Mitsubishi UFJ immediate access to Thailand’s lucrative market,” said Jintana Mekintharanggur, who helps oversee about $200 million as director of equity investment at Manulife Asset Management Co. “Mitsubishi’s strong lending to large corporations, especially Japanese companies operating in Thailand, will support Ayudhya’s wholesale banking.”

MORE:

Ironically, it was Bank of Ayu that bought HSBC's Thailand retail banking operations back in Spring 2012 when HSBC exited the retail banking market here. So now BofA gets snapped up by a bigger fish... Banking's a strange world.

http://www.hsbc.co.th/1/2/bkh2/personal/announcement

BTW, I can't quite follow how, as the article above notes, Mitsu wants to buy up to a controlling 70% stake in BofA...while lower down in the same Bloomberg article, it notes that Thai law limits foreign ownership of banks here to a maximum 49% minority share... They talk about plans for merging with Mitsu's existing operation in BKK, but I can't see how that gets around the ownership limitation.

It depends which part of BAY Mitusbishi Bank wants to buy, just buying retail operations would allow probably them to stay under the 49% threshold.

[yoshiwara]

Well, there are lots of foreign bank interests involved in nominally Thai banks... though even where the ownership is partly international, the method of the bank operating here remains Thai... for better or, more often, worse.

But things are always changing... This was in the news just the other day...

Mitsubishi UFJ to Buy Ayudhya in Biggest Thai Bank Takeover

By Monami Yui & Shigeru Sato - Jul 3, 2013 1:29 PM GMT+0700

Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group Inc. (8306) plans to buy Thailand’s Bank of Ayudhya Pcl for as much as 560 billion yen ($5.6 billion) in the largest banking takeover in the Southeast Asian nation.

Japan’s biggest bank will seek to buy as much as 75 percent of the Bangkok-based lender from shareholders including General Electric Co. (GE) through a tender offer, Mitsubishi UFJ said in a filing to the Tokyo Stock Exchange yesterday. The Japanese company plans to offer 39 baht a share for the Thai bank, or 5.4 percent more than yesterday’s closing price.

The purchase would give Mitsubishi UFJ a bigger foothold to expand retail and corporate banking in Southeast Asia’s second-biggest economy, which is forecast to expand more than three times faster than Japan’s next year. Japanese megabanks are buying assets abroad to counter the nation’s shrinking population and the lowest loan profitability in Asia.

“Bank of Ayudhya has a wide branch network and strong retail customer base that will give Mitsubishi UFJ immediate access to Thailand’s lucrative market,” said Jintana Mekintharanggur, who helps oversee about $200 million as director of equity investment at Manulife Asset Management Co. “Mitsubishi’s strong lending to large corporations, especially Japanese companies operating in Thailand, will support Ayudhya’s wholesale banking.”

MORE:

Ironically, it was Bank of Ayu that bought HSBC's Thailand retail banking operations back in Spring 2012 when HSBC exited the retail banking market here. So now BofA gets snapped up by a bigger fish... Banking's a strange world.

http://www.hsbc.co.th/1/2/bkh2/personal/announcement

BTW, I can't quite follow how, as the article above notes, Mitsu wants to buy up to a controlling 70% stake in BofA...while lower down in the same Bloomberg article, it notes that Thai law limits foreign ownership of banks here to a maximum 49% minority share... They talk about plans for merging with Mitsu's existing operation in BKK, but I can't see how that gets around the ownership limitation.

It depends which part of BAY Mitusbishi Bank wants to buy, just buying retail operations would allow probably them to stay under the 49% threshold.

I would be interested in how that set-up works as well. As also how come HSBC were/are apparently confined to one single branch whereas CIMB (from Malaysia) is not. My money is on the controlling 49% structure as the deciding factor.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Re foreign banks in Thailand, the BOT has been slowly changing the rules over time...

As best as I recall, originally, HSBC was limited to just the one branch. But then a few years back, things changed somehow and they got permission to expand to a couple other locations (relatively shortly before they pulled the pin).

Same with CitiBank. They now have a couple different locations, Asoke, Silom and CentralWorld.

I'm not sure if BOT changed the rules, or somehow interpretted them differently by saying, for example, that HSBC's main location was a "branch" and the other two locations were something different.

And then, of course, in the news the other day, there was an item about the BOT formally planning to invite bids from foreign banks with an existing presence in Thailand to expand their operations in future years.... and be allowed up to 20 branches and 20 off-premises ATMs. What will come of that proposal to select up to 5 banks.... who knows...

Foreign banks can apply for licence

The Nation June 29, 2013 1:00 am

The Bank of Thailand will issue five licences to foreign banks who are seeking to set up subsidiaries in Thailand.

The move would allow them to open up to 20 branches and 20 off-premise ATMs.

Applications will accepted from Tuesday until the end of this year. The application review process is expected to be completed by mid-2014.

The newly incorporated subsidiaries must have a minimum paid-up capital of Bt20 billion. The move aims to enhance competition and financial access, thereby improving efficiency of the Thai financial system and supporting international trade and investment, particularly from regional liberalisation.

The permission is in accordance with the Financial Sector Master Plan's Phase II (2010- 2014), which aims to improve efficiency of the financial system and support regional activities.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I would be interested in how that set-up works as well. As also how come HSBC were/are apparently confined to one single branch whereas CIMB (from Malaysia) is not. My money is on the controlling 49% structure as the deciding factor.

BTW, as I'm reading more on this, it appears the 49% ownership restriction for foreign ownership in Thai banking is not absolute, and can be waived by the Finance Ministry if they choose....

Saw the following mention:

Several banks operating in Thailand have foreigners as majority shareholders. They include Standard Chartered Bank, United Overseas Bank, Commerce International Merchant Bankers Bhd and the Industrial and Commercial Bank of China.

[yoshiwara]

I would be interested in how that set-up works as well. As also how come HSBC were/are apparently confined to one single branch whereas CIMB (from Malaysia) is not. My money is on the controlling 49% structure as the deciding factor.

BTW, as I'm reading more on this, it appears the 49% ownership restriction for foreign ownership in Thai banking is not absolute, and can be waived by the Finance Ministry if they choose....

Saw the following mention:

Several banks operating in Thailand have foreigners as majority shareholders. They include Standard Chartered Bank, United Overseas Bank, Commerce International Merchant Bankers Bhd and the Industrial and Commercial Bank of China.

ICBC appear to have taken over a Thai bank. http://english.caixin.com/2010-04-22/100138034.html

Of that list I think only UOB has an extensive network of branches.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Standard Chartered has about two dozen (one report says 27) branch locations... but I believe they're mostly located in/around BKK at present. They don't have any national footprint, although I now see they have single locations in both Chiang Mai and Rayong.

http://www.standardchartered.co.th/atm-branch-locator/en/index.html

Edited July 5, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[fletchsmile]

When Stan Chart acquired Nakornthon they were allowed a 10 year window on foreign ownership. So they had sort of a hybrid status as a foreign bank with local status priveleges. They had 30+ branches but have gradually been closing the outlying ones and smaller less profitable ones as the strategy is focused on Greater Bangkok.

That 10 year window has now expired. It can retain its existing foreign ownership %s, but If the bank wishes to raise more capital by selling shares, it has to bring down the foreign ownership level. Effectivetly gave them 10 years to put in capital etc, but then makes sure that after that they cannot grow significantly without reducing foreign ownership. So all in all they were given 10 years to rescue the Thai bank and integrate it, and after that further significant growth is capped to ensure Thai banks retain their dominant positions. Any growth in the capital base now has to come from retained earnings, unless they want to dilute control. UOB was similar. I think CIMB who acquired Bank Thai is too - although their 10 years would still be in play from a capital perspective.

Foreign Sector Master Plan 2 (FSMP2) which allowed some foreign banks to open up around 20 branches over set timescales and certain conditions, are very much a case of too little to late if considering a competition perspective. Hence HSBC.... where also the global picture took over. Foreign banks are very unlikely to ever be able to compete in retail mass market banking in Thailand.

Cheers

Fletch

Edited July 5, 2013 by fletchsmile

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Thanks for that background detail, Fletch...

If what I was reading on SC this morning was correct, they have quite a bit of room to maneuver... as their Thailand corporate fact sheet says the Thailand entity is 99%+ owned by the bigger international Standard Chartered.

Standard Chartered Thai holds local bank license while benefiting from international network, with 99.87% owned by Standard Chartered Group.

http://www.standardchartered.co.th/about-us/in-thailand/_documents/Thailand_Fact_Sheet_New_Updated17122012.pdf

Top Shareholders (2011 annual report):

Edited July 5, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Stradavarius37]

Ahh HSBC...the money launderer's bank of choice....

[yoshiwara]

Ahh HSBC...the money launderer's bank of choice....

I guess you have played it safe and are with the Co-op, yes?