Urban myth or not?

[aussieinthailand]

I hope to buy a small block of land soon (in my thai wife's name) build a house and usufruct in my name.

Q. do I have to sign a document stating I did not supply the money to buy the land? just something I had heard and if true or not?

[Beetlejuice]

If the land is not being purchased with the proven finances of your Thai wife, than the said land purchase and ownership is illegal in Thailand.

You will be imposed to sign a declaration that you have no claims over the real estate (not that you haven`t paid for it) and in most cases, after you have illegally financed the purchase using your wife as an upfront Thai name, you should have no problems - UNTIL OR IF: for any reasons your Thai wife decides to dissolve the marriage, or if she dies before you, you begin to have disputes with your neighbors or any disputes which may affect the property, or the authorities in the local area decide to investigate the activities of farangs in their jurisdiction as what happened down my way some years ago. .

If in the event any of what I have mentioned above happens, be prepared to lose control over the property completely or lose the lot.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Beetlejuice

[aussieinthailand]

thanks

[Beetlejuice]

thanks

If you have a child or children that have Thai citizenship, you could place the land and house in their names.

Another way to protect yourself, is to hire the services of reputable lawyer, and make a legal agreement that the monies used to purchase the real estate is a loan to your wife, and not as a purchaser on her behalf.

Otherwise whatever other options you take, you do so at your own risk and discretion, but my advice is, before you throw any of your hard earned dosh into this project, speak to a lawyer first.

As the wise man says; in Thailand always cover your own a-se..

Edited July 9, 2013 by Beetlejuice

[kikoman]

I signed a document that I had no financial interest in the property, freely and willingly I purchased the land for my wife and it is hers. I have no problem doing that,as she is my wife and I trust her to do the right thing as she has and continues to do for the last 8 years.

Granted a person could put their faith in the wrong person, I know my wife would have to have a very good reason to even think of taking that drastic action. Like me being unfaithful or taking on a mia noi, which I would never do.

I am not saying that there are no circumstances that she may consider that, like betraying her trust or abusing her.

I work very hard at keeping our marriage together, and she does also.

Losing my wife for a stolen moment of pleasure is not a action I would take, I have a great wife and way to much to lose and would be an extremely stupid and foolish thing to do.

Cheers:

Edited July 9, 2013 by kikoman

[Beetlejuice]

I signed a document that I had no financial interest in the property, freely and willingly I purchased the land for my wife and it is hers. I have no problem doing that,as she is my wife and I trust her to do the right thing as she has and continues to do for the last 8 years.

Granted a person could put their faith in the wrong person, I know my wife would have to have a very good reason to even think of taking that drastic action. Like me being unfaithful or taking on a mia noi, which I would never do.

I am not saying that there are no circumstances that she may consider that, like betraying her trust or abusing her.

I work very hard at keeping our marriage together, and she does also.

Losing my wife for a stolen moment of pleasure is not a action I would take, I have a great wife and way to much to lose and would be an extremely stupid and foolish thing to do.

Cheers:

I have no doubts that your wife is all that you say; that doesn`t come into question, but what would happen in the event if your wife died or you had some sort of legal problem with others in your neighborhood, a dispute or a problem that involved the police and they decided to check you out and so on.

Covering yourself in Thailand for most eventualities is like taking out an insurance policy, rather than leave everything to chance.

A close Irish friend some years ago, lost his beloved Thai wife to an illness. They had no children. The couple owned some lum yai land and a house together. Within days of his wife`s death, her ever loving caring family turned up to claim his house and lands stating that they are the next of kin.

It took my friend over 3 years to fight the case. Lawyers, expense and having to attend court. It concluded that his wife`s family were given the lum yai land and my friend could remain in the house but if he wished to sell, 50% of the proceeds of the sale had to be given to his in-laws and other relatives.

The house and land I live on was inherited by my wife from her grandparents before we married. But I am still not taking any chances. I placed everything into the names of my 3 children. Of course they could still throw me out, and hoping that would never happen. Anyway, once I and the wife kick the bucket they will all inherit the property, so no problems.

Nothing personal, nothing to do with mistrusting, just common sense and for peace of mind, that`s all.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Beetlejuice

[rubberduck]

Never do such a deal without a lawyer !

[metisdead]

Moved to the Real Estate, housing, house and land ownership forum for better answers.

[belg]

here you have to give all your money away to be able to only hopefully have a lease on the land and house you paid for ...

crazy, isn't it

in the meantime : thais can buy land and houses whereever in the world is available for anybody else

but oh, the bad farang will buy the land and TAKE IT HOME WITH HIM ...

[Mario2008]

1 troll post and reply to it removed.

[drdoom6996]

"You will be imposed to sign a declaration that you have no claims over the real estate".

So she can steal it from you at a later date of her choosing!

[MILT]

I signed a document that I had no financial interest in the property, freely and willingly I purchased the land for my wife and it is hers. I have no problem doing that,as she is my wife and I trust her to do the right thing as she has and continues to do for the last 8 years.

Granted a person could put their faith in the wrong person, I know my wife would have to have a very good reason to even think of taking that drastic action. Like me being unfaithful or taking on a mia noi, which I would never do.

I am not saying that there are no circumstances that she may consider that, like betraying her trust or abusing her.

I work very hard at keeping our marriage together, and she does also.

Losing my wife for a stolen moment of pleasure is not a action I would take, I have a great wife and way to much to lose and would be an extremely stupid and foolish thing to do.

Cheers:

I have no doubts that your wife is all that you say; that doesn`t come into question, but what would happen in the event if your wife died or you had some sort of legal problem with others in your neighborhood, a dispute or a problem that involved the police and they decided to check you out and so on.

Covering yourself in Thailand for most eventualities is like taking out an insurance policy, rather than leave everything to chance.

A close Irish friend some years ago, lost his beloved Thai wife to an illness. They had no children. The couple owned some lum yai land and a house together. Within days of his wife`s death, her ever loving caring family turned up to claim his house and lands stating that they are the next of kin.

It took my friend over 3 years to fight the case. Lawyers, expense and having to attend court. It concluded that his wife`s family were given the lum yai land and my friend could remain in the house but if he wished to sell, 50% of the proceeds of the sale had to be given to his in-laws and other relatives.

The house and land I live on was inherited by my wife from her grandparents before we married. But I am still not taking any chances. I placed everything into the names of my 3 children. Of course they could still throw me out, and hoping that would never happen. Anyway, once I and the wife kick the bucket they will all inherit the property, so no problems.

Nothing personal, nothing to do with mistrusting, just common sense and for peace of mind, that`s all.

I know of a similar story before I ever thought that Thailand would end up being my home on this planet. Back in previous life I worked being a proffesional house painter. I eventually befriended a co-worker and we began to hang out after work have some beers et. He alway seemed depressed, even suicidal at times. One day we were working on this old victorian home and he invited me to eat some Thai food at our lunch break. Finally he told me this story. He used to live in Thailand in Chiangrai. He met and married a Chiangrai girl and had a kid and started a trekking buiness for the backpackers looking to visit the hilltribe communities. It all sounded very cool and out of the ordinary to me. His business was starting to take off and he was pretty much living a great life in Chiangrai. His wife took ill and within 24 hrs. passed away. He cliams he got along great with the inlaws and extended family. They loved his child and he believed they genuinly loved him. He continued to help support the various family members that needed monies for this and that. 3 months after his wife,s passing his wife's brother told him he was not welcomed anymore and that now the family owns everything. The money he saved was gone. The family gave him pretty much enough money for a plane ticket. He had lived in Thailnd 9 years. I guess the point of this story is that if there is a blue chance in hell that there might be an opprotunity to take advantage of a person I fine that some will. I have been married and have lived in Thailand for 19 years. The family here is great! Seldom any problems. Make no mistake that in the event (God forbid) that my wife died and I didn't sort out the things that needed to be in place for a future without her, I would be left to the mercy of, well let's just say "Not my wife".......................

My advice is to make a will, not just for any children but for you as well. I understand that you have given freely to your wife because of how the laws are here and the fact you trust her. I got that. Security is a good feeling too.

[slipperylobster]

Hope one day they turn Thailand into a community property country! (Not going to happen, of course). But just think about the peace of mind that would give to a farang. Many states in the USA have this, and its a darn good thing, as the divorce rate is very high. Here in Thailand, there is a street in udon that used to have 5 foreign built houses. Every single one the the foreign husbands has left that street. I don't expect the 2nd mortgages taken out by the wives (without the permission of the husband) had a thing to do with the fact that they are now empty). I am all for marriage...but protecting oneself from financial ruin by an unwitting/witting marital partner is kind of critical. I suggest buying property elsewhere....perhaps in a country that protects the wife and husband equally...when it comes to property. I rent for 2500 baht a month....would only buy in the States. The wife is welcome to half.

[nattydread]

rent rent rent rent rent...........don't trust these greedy people one iota or you will be sorry

[KunMatt]

How much is a usufruct these days?

[Just1Voice]

My wife, who is only 10 years younger than I am, knew each other for almost a year before we married. When we decided to buy a house, we sat down and discussed the various ways it could be done. We finally decided the best course would be to put everything in her son's name. He was 24 at the time, and had just become a Government Teacher. I won't go into all the details, but we went this way as we both figured with our age, he would, or should, barring any unforseen accidents, outlive both of us. It was also a good way to help him establish a good credit rating. The house was actually placed in his name and hers, with an insurance policy that will pay off half of the remaining balance should either of them die. And it was only a 12 yr mortgage, not 25. Other things we have purchased, such as cars, motorbikes, etc, are also placed in his name only. This works good for us, and has built an excellent credit rating for him, which he will need in the future. If I die before her, there are insurance policies in place to pay off everything, as well as her being able to receive 30% of my VA disability, so they are both covered financially. If she dies first, with her insurance policies in place, the same scenario of paying off everything.

I strongly suggest you do as others here have mentioned - talk to a good attorney. There are different ways of doing things here, some legal, some "shady", and you need to sit down and figure out what is best for you

[Freedomfighter]

Would never even bother trying to own land in this country. Too much greed and xenophobia

[Dellie]

What about if you start a company in say for example Hong Kong and then employ your wife with a hefty yearly salary. Would this help you in Thailand?

Then it will look like she is supporting you and not the other way around. Just a little idea I had. Any experts wanna way in?

[NCFC]

My wife, who is only 10 years younger than I am, knew each other for almost a year before we married. When we decided to buy a house, we sat down and discussed the various ways it could be done. We finally decided the best course would be to put everything in her son's name. He was 24 at the time, and had just become a Government Teacher. I won't go into all the details, but we went this way as we both figured with our age, he would, or should, barring any unforseen accidents, outlive both of us. It was also a good way to help him establish a good credit rating. The house was actually placed in his name and hers, with an insurance policy that will pay off half of the remaining balance should either of them die. And it was only a 12 yr mortgage, not 25. Other things we have purchased, such as cars, motorbikes, etc, are also placed in his name only. This works good for us, and has built an excellent credit rating for him, which he will need in the future. If I die before her, there are insurance policies in place to pay off everything, as well as her being able to receive 30% of my VA disability, so they are both covered financially. If she dies first, with her insurance policies in place, the same scenario of paying off everything.

I strongly suggest you do as others here have mentioned - talk to a good attorney. There are different ways of doing things here, some legal, some "shady", and you need to sit down and figure out what is best for you

So if your wife dies first you are depending on her son to play fair? Good luck with that.

[aussieinthailand]

Thanks so much people, lot's of great advice, I'll take it on board, Cheers

I love my wife trust her, it goes both ways, but no point being a sitting duck yeah!

I just want some kind of peace of mind in the future if un-for-seen things could happen, my wife supports this thinking also, as she has some health issues and wants to see I'm ok in the future, safe from draconian laws of Thailand and falang's

Q.2 Is there a thing in Thailand as an executor of estate? and can it be a falang?

[rbrooks]

here you have to give all your money away to be able to only hopefully have a lease on the land and house you paid for ...

crazy, isn't it

in the meantime : thais can buy land and houses whereever in the world is available for anybody else

but oh, the bad farang will buy the land and TAKE IT HOME WITH HIM ...

That's a sad fact. Here in America Thais and all nationalities can buy all to their hearts content and guess what, it belongs to them. We should start making laws that treat them equally as we are treated in their country, but wait that would be a violation of their civil rights.

[KunMatt]

Thanks so much people, lot's of great advice, I'll take it on board, Cheers:thumbsup:

I love my wife trust her, it goes both ways, but no point being a sitting duck yeah!

I just want some kind of peace of mind in the future if un-for-seen things could happen, my wife supports this thinking also, as she has some health issues and wants to see I'm ok in the future, safe from draconian laws of Thailand and falang's

So what is the cost of the house you are planning to build here?

[garyk]

You know I enjoy everyday here. And wake up and go to bed happy. Why, I obey the law. I own one truck and one motorcycle that is it. Been here for a few years now and would not change a thing. Have been pressured, needled, lied to about land and a home. I own one home in my country. I find it very nice to rent a condo. Have high speed internet. All maintenance taken care of. Thailand has to be the worst place in the world to live and retire if you want a family and permanent roots? There are many country's that you can buy land legally.

Why would anyone put themselves threw such a thing always amazes me.

[kikoman]

The only reason now that I remain in Thailand is my wife, If something should happen to her (God Forbid) I would not remain in Thailand, but would go home to spend my final day near my children.

The house is her's plain and simple, I have never planned it any other way we place the house in my step daughters names as the house after my wife passing will be theirs.

I do not have the need to own our home. when I die I will never be able to take it with me, the house is completely paid for as of about 5 years ago. It is not a fancy house and was appraised at almost 2 million baht. The Thailand house is but a fraction of the value of the house I lost in a divorce settlement back in the states, to a non Thai U.S. gold digger.

My wife's Thai family is a great family we have never had a disagreement during my time with my wife. I added a bedroom on the house for my in-laws to come live with us whenever they wish to.

They lived with us for a year about 4 years ago as the father wanted to grow rice again , but he could make a better living at his job in Bangkok, no need to worry about me, If I need to I have a plan B.

Many people failed to do their homework prior to coming to Thailand ,to find out what was in store for them in a life living in Thailand by Thai law.

Cheers:

[Dellie]

here you have to give all your money away to be able to only hopefully have a lease on the land and house you paid for ...

crazy, isn't it

in the meantime : thais can buy land and houses whereever in the world is available for anybody else

but oh, the bad farang will buy the land and TAKE IT HOME WITH HIM ...

That's a sad fact. Here in America Thais and all nationalities can buy all to their hearts content and guess what, it belongs to them. We should start making laws that treat them equally as we are treated in their country, but wait that would be a violation of their civil rights.

This kind of property law is used in lots of "poorer" countries. It is meant to protect the citizens of the country and to stop companies from first world countries from buying up the entire land mass.

[KunMatt]

here you have to give all your money away to be able to only hopefully have a lease on the land and house you paid for ...

crazy, isn't it

in the meantime : thais can buy land and houses whereever in the world is available for anybody else

but oh, the bad farang will buy the land and TAKE IT HOME WITH HIM ...

That's a sad fact. Here in America Thais and all nationalities can buy all to their hearts content and guess what, it belongs to them. We should start making laws that treat them equally as we are treated in their country, but wait that would be a violation of their civil rights.

This kind of property law is used in lots of "poorer" countries. It is meant to protect the citizens of the country and to stop companies from first world countries from buying up the entire land mass.

Which obviously applies to a husband who wants to build a home for his family!

It seems that most laws and WP/visa rules here are purely just to evict foreigners from Thailand with nothing once they have spent all of their money and benefit the Thais with the spoils.

[bkk_mike]

I signed a document that I had no financial interest in the property, freely and willingly I purchased the land for my wife and it is hers. I have no problem doing that,as she is my wife and I trust her to do the right thing as she has and continues to do for the last 8 years.

Granted a person could put their faith in the wrong person, I know my wife would have to have a very good reason to even think of taking that drastic action. Like me being unfaithful or taking on a mia noi, which I would never do.

I am not saying that there are no circumstances that she may consider that, like betraying her trust or abusing her.

I work very hard at keeping our marriage together, and she does also.

Losing my wife for a stolen moment of pleasure is not a action I would take, I have a great wife and way to much to lose and would be an extremely stupid and foolish thing to do.

Cheers:

I have no doubts that your wife is all that you say; that doesn`t come into question, but what would happen in the event if your wife died or you had some sort of legal problem with others in your neighborhood, a dispute or a problem that involved the police and they decided to check you out and so on.

Covering yourself in Thailand for most eventualities is like taking out an insurance policy, rather than leave everything to chance.

A close Irish friend some years ago, lost his beloved Thai wife to an illness. They had no children. The couple owned some lum yai land and a house together. Within days of his wife`s death, her ever loving caring family turned up to claim his house and lands stating that they are the next of kin.

It took my friend over 3 years to fight the case. Lawyers, expense and having to attend court. It concluded that his wife`s family were given the lum yai land and my friend could remain in the house but if he wished to sell, 50% of the proceeds of the sale had to be given to his in-laws and other relatives.

The house and land I live on was inherited by my wife from her grandparents before we married. But I am still not taking any chances. I placed everything into the names of my 3 children. Of course they could still throw me out, and hoping that would never happen. Anyway, once I and the wife kick the bucket they will all inherit the property, so no problems.

Nothing personal, nothing to do with mistrusting, just common sense and for peace of mind, that`s all.

I know of a similar story before I ever thought that Thailand would end up being my home on this planet. Back in previous life I worked being a proffesional house painter. I eventually befriended a co-worker and we began to hang out after work have some beers et. He alway seemed depressed, even suicidal at times. One day we were working on this old victorian home and he invited me to eat some Thai food at our lunch break. Finally he told me this story. He used to live in Thailand in Chiangrai. He met and married a Chiangrai girl and had a kid and started a trekking buiness for the backpackers looking to visit the hilltribe communities. It all sounded very cool and out of the ordinary to me. His business was starting to take off and he was pretty much living a great life in Chiangrai. His wife took ill and within 24 hrs. passed away. He cliams he got along great with the inlaws and extended family. They loved his child and he believed they genuinly loved him. He continued to help support the various family members that needed monies for this and that. 3 months after his wife,s passing his wife's brother told him he was not welcomed anymore and that now the family owns everything. The money he saved was gone. The family gave him pretty much enough money for a plane ticket. He had lived in Thailnd 9 years. I guess the point of this story is that if there is a blue chance in hell that there might be an opprotunity to take advantage of a person I fine that some will. I have been married and have lived in Thailand for 19 years. The family here is great! Seldom any problems. Make no mistake that in the event (God forbid) that my wife died and I didn't sort out the things that needed to be in place for a future without her, I would be left to the mercy of, well let's just say "Not my wife".......................

My advice is to make a will, not just for any children but for you as well. I understand that you have given freely to your wife because of how the laws are here and the fact you trust her. I got that. Security is a good feeling too.

Something doesn't sound right here.

With a proper marriage and a kid involved, if the land was owned by the wife, properly, with a land title, it would NOT be inherited by the rest of the family, but would be inherited by the husband and child. The foreign husband would be required to sell has share of the property within a year (or more likely give his share to the kid). The rest of the family wouldn't have inherited anything as the existence of descendants basically disinherits them if the spouse is still living.

i.e. Either his wife didn't own the land the house was on (i.e. Family-owned land, or not a proper Chanote for the land title), or he didn't really get married (i.e. just the ceremony, not the paperwork)..

Personally, we have several properties here, but also several properties abroad. We already had kids before moving to Thailand, so I had no issues about buying as even if something happened to my wife, the properties would end up belonging to the kids (as I'd have to give them my share as I couldn't own it myself).

For your own kids to throw you out of "their" house, you'd need to have been a pretty awful parent.

Edited July 10, 2013 by bkk_mike

[captspectre]

I signed a document that I had no financial interest in the property, freely and willingly I purchased the land for my wife and it is hers. I have no problem doing that,as she is my wife and I trust her to do the right thing as she has and continues to do for the last 8 years.

Granted a person could put their faith in the wrong person, I know my wife would have to have a very good reason to even think of taking that drastic action. Like me being unfaithful or taking on a mia noi, which I would never do.

I am not saying that there are no circumstances that she may consider that, like betraying her trust or abusing her.

I work very hard at keeping our marriage together, and she does also.

Losing my wife for a stolen moment of pleasure is not a action I would take, I have a great wife and way to much to lose and would be an extremely stupid and foolish thing to do.

Cheers:

that's all well and good, BUT if your wife happens to pre-decease you, than the problems begin unless you have been included in the house regisrty.

[kikoman]

Again I will state the only reason I am still in Thailand is because of my wife!

I love living in Thailand and the people I have been a part of in our life in the our Thai village.

I have medical problems, which I choose not to discuss,

if something happened to my dear wife (God Forbid),

I would leave Thailand and the home that I love,

to spend my final days on this earth in the company of my children

That is my plan B,

our house will go to my Thai stepdaughter's,

that I have raised and love as my own.

Cheers:

[garyk]

Ecuador, Mexico and many country's let you buy and live, Often with much less restrictions on $. IMO it is just the women that bring farang here. Then you find a good woman? And the rest is history. Most people that want to marry want a home and a place to piddle around. As long as you know it is a loss, period. Then I think it is fine.

We are back to. Only spend what you can afford to loose, where when you loose it, it will not affect your life at all..

I personally am not in that financial class where I can spend a few million baht and it will not affect me. 5-10 million baht would hurt me in my old age.

So I will not roll the dice on this one for sure.

Sounds like kikoman has a good grip on reality here. You are much more tolerant than I am and I applaud you for that. I like my space.I have a GF who has been with me for years now. I love travel and she does also. So good company for me. But no in laws or outlaws in my space....

I also have an aquantence here that had a lease on a home here. He had just finished it and his wife died. His in laws drove him away with verbal threats and just making life a miserable daily affair. Same story. When with his wife all was good. He basically supported the whole clan. But when she died, he was OUT. Just a mess. Just because you have a legal right to live in a home. Does not mean much when you are threatened and abused daily. Legal and quality life are TWO different things all together.

Edited July 11, 2013 by garyk