Democrat Party Rebuilds Strength

[lukamar]

Are you testing God's ability to overturn all your predictions?

God does not overturn predictions in Thailand, as it's a Buddhist country.

[ColPyat]

Who can help us and post detailed info on TRT's factions? Siripon, maybe Colpyat?

Sudarat used to control Bangkok MPs, but now she's nearly out and TRT will struggle to retain it's numbers in the capital.

No party can form a stable government without winning over Bangkokians.

What will happen to TRT's party list? Those are the people who actually made TRT into what it is. Without them there will be no organisation, no policies, nothing.

What will they do? They have little respect for upcountry opportunists who jumped on TRT's bandwagon for a piece of the action. Will they stick around? Will they form a new party to appeal to middle class and elite? They are certainly capable. Assosiation with the likes of Suriya does not do them any good.

I'll say it again - once TRT is broken apart, Democrats will be the biggest party in Parliament.

Yes, once TRT breaks up into fractionalsim, the Democrats will be the biggest party in the parliament. But not because the largest part of the population supports the Democrats, more because that was the old status quo of the Democrats: get your MPs from the South and Bangkok and a few more from the other urban centres, and you can form coalitions with the local based micro-parties that are more political incursions by locally influental businesmen.

Problem though is that the frictions between urban middle classes and upcountry poor are now bigger than ever before. This will not work as smooth as it did in the past. Just wait and see...

[mogoso]

But by boycotting, forcing the issue of Thaksin's acceptability, it is plain 11 million, who didn't receive a single baht for their vote, said ,'NO'!

The Democrats will be back, they're not all a collection of businessmen disguised as politicians like TRT.

Not a single baht for their vote, come on give me a break, this is Thailand we're discussing. Demos are always very active in buying votes

[lukamar]

But by boycotting, forcing the issue of Thaksin's acceptability, it is plain 11 million, who didn't receive a single baht for their vote, said ,'NO'!

The Democrats will be back, they're not all a collection of businessmen disguised as politicians like TRT.

=================

Not a single baht for their vote, come on give me a break, this is Thailand we're discussing. Demos are always very active in buying votes

But they won't have to buy anywhere near 11 million this time....

Edited April 8, 2006 by lukamar

[tettyan]

Who can help us and post detailed info on TRT's factions? Siripon, maybe Colpyat?

Sudarat used to control Bangkok MPs, but now she's nearly out and TRT will struggle to retain it's numbers in the capital.

No party can form a stable government without winning over Bangkokians.

What will happen to TRT's party list? Those are the people who actually made TRT into what it is. Without them there will be no organisation, no policies, nothing.

What will they do? They have little respect for upcountry opportunists who jumped on TRT's bandwagon for a piece of the action. Will they stick around? Will they form a new party to appeal to middle class and elite? They are certainly capable. Assosiation with the likes of Suriya does not do them any good.

I'll say it again - once TRT is broken apart, Democrats will be the biggest party in Parliament.

I have been working on a Wikipedia entry on TRT. Please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_Rak_Thai#Factions

I try to keep the info up to date. I just updated it this morning based on this article from The Nation: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/04/08...cs_30001276.php

[tettyan]

Yes, once TRT breaks up into fractionalsim, the Democrats will be the biggest party in the parliament. But not because the largest part of the population supports the Democrats, more because that was the old status quo of the Democrats: get your MPs from the South and Bangkok and a few more from the other urban centres, and you can form coalitions with the local based micro-parties that are more political incursions by locally influental businesmen.

Problem though is that the frictions between urban middle classes and upcountry poor are now bigger than ever before. This will not work as smooth as it did in the past. Just wait and see...

I wouldn't go so far as to say the Democrats would be the biggest party even if TRT broke up along factional lines. The biggest party would probably be the Wang Nam Yom faction, with around 130 MPs. It's been well known that they've always had the power to form a party in their own right. Suriya (Mr CTX) provides the wallet, while Somsak manages a formidable organization upcountry. The only thing the grouping lacks is a leadership candidate with popular appeal. Which is no surprise why they're now pushing for Somkid for the PM's seat.

Don't forget - one thing that maintained the pre-Thaksin multiparty system (with a dozen small-to-medium sized parties in parliament) was the old multiple-seat, multiple-vote system in the constituencies. I.e., there were three MPs for each constituency, and each voter could cast votes for up to three candidates. Thus, the hurdle for smaller parties to win seats was much lower. One thing the 1997 constitution changed was replacing the old electoral system with single-seat constituencies, with voters getting only one vote.

Thus, from the point of view of the TRT factions, especially the smaller factions, it does not look promising for them if they go it alone. Thus, TRT could split up, but probably into no more than 3-4 parties.

Edited April 8, 2006 by tettyan

[ColPyat]

Yes, once TRT breaks up into fractionalsim, the Democrats will be the biggest party in the parliament. But not because the largest part of the population supports the Democrats, more because that was the old status quo of the Democrats: get your MPs from the South and Bangkok and a few more from the other urban centres, and you can form coalitions with the local based micro-parties that are more political incursions by locally influental businesmen.

Problem though is that the frictions between urban middle classes and upcountry poor are now bigger than ever before. This will not work as smooth as it did in the past. Just wait and see...

I wouldn't go so far as to say the Democrats would be the biggest party even if TRT broke up along factional lines. The biggest party would probably be the Wang Nam Yom faction, with around 130 MPs. It's been well known that they've always had the power to form a party in their own right. Suriya (Mr CTX) provides the wallet, while Somsak manages a formidable organization upcountry. The only thing the grouping lacks is a leadership candidate with popular appeal. Which is no surprise why they're now pushing for Somkid for the PM's seat.

Don't forget - one thing that maintained the pre-Thaksin multiparty system (with a dozen small-to-medium sized parties in parliament) was the old multiple-seat, multiple-vote system in the constituencies. I.e., there were three MPs for each constituency, and each voter could cast votes for up to three candidates. Thus, the hurdle for smaller parties to win seats was much lower. One thing the 1997 constitution changed was replacing the old electoral system with single-seat constituencies, with voters getting only one vote.

Thus, from the point of view of the TRT factions, especially the smaller factions, it does not look promising for them if they go it alone. Thus, TRT could split up, but probably into no more than 3-4 parties.

Good work on the wikipedia article.

Yes, i did forget about the changes. At this present moment i have real difficulties in trying to predict what the future might bring here. I don't have any sort of high level insights into TRT. Thaksin is a rather overwhelming and excentric character, i wonder what impact his resignation will have on TRT's popularity. From what i can see, the mass of TRT voters upcountry voted for him personally. My doubts about the TRT holding together stem from the fact that the TRT MPs come from widely differing political and economical backgrounds, and i really don't see what else than Thaksin's force could possibly combine them and make them work together.

[lukamar]

Pol. Gen. Thammarak shrugged off reports claiming that TRT is splitting into factions

The Deputy Thai Rak Thai leader General Thammarak Issarangkul na Ayudhaya (ธรรมรักษ์ อิศรางกูร ณ อยุธยา) shrugged off news claiming that the party is splitting into factions. Meanwhile Gen Thammarak said the People’s Alliance for Democracy’s (PAD) call for caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra to leave the country is too extreme.

In regards to PAD’s criticism of Dr. Thaksin in taking a break from politics but still is making decisions behind the scene, Gen Thammarak said in response that perhaps the PAD was being too critical. "Caretaker PM Thaksin Shinawatra has followed laws and regulations, what else does the PAD want ? does the group want the That Rak Thai to dissolve ?" questioned Gen Thammarak.

As for rumours regarding the splitting up of TRT, he affirmed that TRT is still very united.

National News Bureau Public Relations Department

[jdinasia]

Are you testing God's ability to overturn all your predictions?

God does not overturn predictions in Thailand, as it's a Buddhist country.

You're in Canada ...so ....

[jdinasia]

If TRT is broken up...... don't see that happening any time soon.

you didn't see Thaksin resigning etc ....

I don't see a dissolution of TRT either .... just a major weakening.

[Johpa]

I don't see a dissolution of TRT either .... just a major weakening.

Thai political parties don't disolve per se. Every party is backed by individuals who are not interested in politics, nobody involved wants to change the status quo, but they are interested in obtaining personal gain. The people backing TRT decided to hitch their horses to the Taksin bandwagon. With Taksin gone (he got his big payday so don't expect him to linger behind the scenes), they will each individually decide how they best obtain the biggest possible piece of the pie going forward. For reasons that have nothing to do with "politics," some will stay with the TRT and others will decide it is in their best interest to hitch their horse to a different wagon. These changes will be influenced by business relationships, family relationships (whose son married whose daughter over the past several years so go back and read the society pages of the Bangkok Post for tidbits), and even overseas relationships.

Clearly the TRT will be weakened. And in my opinion, any weakening of one of the newer parties will see a strenthening of tha grand dame of Thai political parties, the Democrats. Perhaps the Democrats will not return to their former level of power, but I doubt that Taksin will be able to stay behind the scene and play the kingmaker (moderators, I use that term in a political sense only) as did Bhichai Rattakul of the Democratic party.

[Old Man River]

Problem though is that the frictions between urban middle classes and upcountry poor are now bigger than ever before. This will not work as smooth as it did in the past. Just wait and see...

Colpyat, in your opinion, how prevalent was vote buying in the northeast in the recent general election? Did the TRT's populist policies mean that they had to buy less votes than in the past or at election time is this still the highest motivator?

[Plus]

How widespread is vote buying by Democrats? Apparently they don't need to pay anyone in the South to vote for them, and in Bangkok, too.

We have lots of reports about vote buying by TRT, but never by Democrats. They must follow the tradition in the North-East. Or is it the main reason they didn't win any seats there last time?

What they need now is policies. They don't have any at the moment.

Dismantling "Thaksin regime" is a noble task, but it won't get them votes in the short term.

The problem is that they have big shoes to fill - people got used to quick fixes and mind-blowing ideas, while the work that is needed to be done is nothing spectacular - getting bureaucrats to work independently, outside of political influence, strengthening local governing bodies and giving villagers real control over their lives, restarting educational reform and so on.

In the short term they can do a good job by reforming 30 baht scheme, and there's no shortage of opinions on how to fix that. If they can fix that, and also show the end to cheap loans to pay interest on the previous cheap loans, they can get lots of country folks backing them.

The reality, though, is that they need local MPs on their side - policies don't mean much in local politics yet.

Do you see any signs that Demos are working in the right direction? I don't.

[Plus]

Are you testing God's ability to overturn all your predictions?

God does not overturn predictions in Thailand, as it's a Buddhist country.

You're in Canada ...so ....

And Britmaverick can't escape God's attention even in Thailand, lucky bastard.

If Brit showed a bit more respect to Him, He'd probably left Brit alone, which leads me to believe that Brit types atheists posts only to keep himself in God's spotlight.

[ColPyat]

Colpyat, in your opinion, how prevalent was vote buying in the northeast in the recent general election? Did the TRT's populist policies mean that they had to buy less votes than in the past or at election time is this still the highest motivator?

I don't know.

I only know about my wife's village in the North, and appearantly there was far less direct vote buying than in last year's election.

Personally, i don't see vote buying going away by more legislation, or control. I think it will only go away if those rural poor are made equal part of the democratic system. But that is going to be very difficult, for the reasons that Johpa has outlined so well in his post. Thai politics are far more dominated by vested interests and clan politics of the powerful than by a genuine interest to modernise the society.

An additional difficulty is IMHO that through the PAD demonstartions the mostly rural poor supporters of the TRT have lost faith in a democratic system.

I don't know, but i would not overestimate the effects of vote buying alone. Everybody wants something out of politicians, anywhere in the world. Here, almost the only thing that the rural poor get out of politicians is the odd few hundred Baht in exchange of their vote.

Before anything that resembles what we from the west call democracy emerges in Thailand it will take a very long time. Just because some group attaches the label "democratic" to themselves does not mean that they actually are democratic.

I don't know how to properly explain it, but what i see in Thailand is labels that resemble a modern and democratic system. But behind those labels is an archaic, highly complex web of patron - client relationships that dominate all aspects of Thai society, goes through and connects all classes. This web is though slowly eroding by several factors, one being that many simply are not content with this sort of status quo anymore in this age.

The self made face of this "Land of Smile" starts collapsing. I have no idea what comes out of it other than at first some very difficult times. And i think the present political changes should be seen in this light as well, as an expression of huge changes that are happening in Thai society.

Personally, i hope that all the powers involved, open and covered, can find very fast a solution and direction that will not exclude any sector of Thai society. Otherwise we might find ourselves in some troubled times. Especially when the one imagined moral consciousnes this country believes in passes away.

[ColPyat]

Do you see any signs that Demos are working in the right direction? I don't.

Do you mean with "Demos" the Democrats, or the demonstrations?

Well, doesn't actually matter, coz i believe that both don't exactly work in the right direction, if 'right direction' is defined as trying to achieve more social peace, eradication of poverty and modernisation of Thai society.

And before i get another flame from the usual suspects, no i don't believe that TRT with Thaksin work in what i define as 'the right direction' either.

[Plus]

I meant Democrats.

There's no shortage of ideas should be done next, whether in political reforms, economics, popular policies - everything.

Are Democrats working to pull all the ideas together, manage them, and put them in practice? They've got the right attitude but that's not enough.

I once known a drug and women trafficker who was granted a seat at the same dinner table as Chuan in recognition for his services. The guy is locked in jail in Europe now.

Things have changed since then, old financiers can't deliver anymore and Abhisit now has more leverage than old hands, and everything looks favorable to Democrats at the moment.

The world is theirs for the taking.

[lukamar]

You're in Canada ...so ....

Your comment once again reflects nothing intelligent and is just another snipe to create an uncomfortable atmosphere to illicit a response from me.

[britmaveric]

Are you testing God's ability to overturn all your predictions?

God does not overturn predictions in Thailand, as it's a Buddhist country.

You're in Canada ...so ....

And Britmaverick can't escape God's attention even in Thailand, lucky bastard.

If Brit showed a bit more respect to Him, He'd probably left Brit alone, which leads me to believe that Brit types atheists posts only to keep himself in God's spotlight.

[Old Man River]

Colpyat, in your opinion, how prevalent was vote buying in the northeast in the recent general election? Did the TRT's populist policies mean that they had to buy less votes than in the past or at election time is this still the highest motivator?

I don't know.

I only know about my wife's village in the North, and appearantly there was far less direct vote buying than in last year's election.

Personally, i don't see vote buying going away by more legislation, or control. I think it will only go away if those rural poor are made equal part of the democratic system. But that is going to be very difficult, for the reasons that Johpa has outlined so well in his post. Thai politics are far more dominated by vested interests and clan politics of the powerful than by a genuine interest to modernise the society.

An additional difficulty is IMHO that through the PAD demonstartions the mostly rural poor supporters of the TRT have lost faith in a democratic system.

I don't know, but i would not overestimate the effects of vote buying alone. Everybody wants something out of politicians, anywhere in the world. Here, almost the only thing that the rural poor get out of politicians is the odd few hundred Baht in exchange of their vote.

Before anything that resembles what we from the west call democracy emerges in Thailand it will take a very long time. Just because some group attaches the label "democratic" to themselves does not mean that they actually are democratic.

I don't know how to properly explain it, but what i see in Thailand is labels that resemble a modern and democratic system. But behind those labels is an archaic, highly complex web of patron - client relationships that dominate all aspects of Thai society, goes through and connects all classes. This web is though slowly eroding by several factors, one being that many simply are not content with this sort of status quo anymore in this age.

The self made face of this "Land of Smile" starts collapsing. I have no idea what comes out of it other than at first some very difficult times. And i think the present political changes should be seen in this light as well, as an expression of huge changes that are happening in Thai society.

Personally, i hope that all the powers involved, open and covered, can find very fast a solution and direction that will not exclude any sector of Thai society. Otherwise we might find ourselves in some troubled times. Especially when the one imagined moral consciousnes this country believes in passes away.

[/quote

ColPyat, I greatly appreciate your thoughts on this. I have to agree with you on democracy in Thailand. For those that don't live in Thailand, vote buying is a fact of life here and it is done by every political party all over this country, including Bangkok. While I have the upmost respect for those in the Democratic party, I had hoped that Dr. Thaksin's TRT was going to be the political party that would tear down the old ways and build a new type of democracy. Instead it looks like it was all a facade to rip off the country. ColPyat, it is not only those in the northeast that feel cheated. The strong reaction against the TRT in Bangkok was because the upper class, educated Thais also felt the same way, albeit for different reasons.

Going forward, given the lessons learned from the TRT party in gaining the support of those upcountry, I think the Democrats will take this to heart. I know some of their leaders (socially), and they are good people and I believe they will do the right things. Right now, for the opposition parties, it is first things first. Try and avoid a parliament headed by the TRT. Only way to do this is fight any attempts to form a parliament with less than 500 seats.

[ColPyat]

Going forward, given the lessons learned from the TRT party in gaining the support of those upcountry, I think the Democrats will take this to heart. I know some of their leaders (socially), and they are good people and I believe they will do the right things.

I hope you are right there.

Taking all in consideration, i believe the Democrats have so far been the best governments in Thailand. Lets wait and see.

[mogoso]

Going forward, given the lessons learned from the TRT party in gaining the support of those upcountry, I think the Democrats will take this to heart. I know some of their leaders (socially), and they are good people and I believe they will do the right things.

I hope you are right there.

Taking all in consideration, i believe the Democrats have so far been the best governments in Thailand. Lets wait and see.

And I believe the opposite, but I hope whomever gains power will lead Thailand to what is best for Thailand and its people, and the heck with what farangs feel is right.

[ColPyat]

Going forward, given the lessons learned from the TRT party in gaining the support of those upcountry, I think the Democrats will take this to heart. I know some of their leaders (socially), and they are good people and I believe they will do the right things.

I hope you are right there.

Taking all in consideration, i believe the Democrats have so far been the best governments in Thailand. Lets wait and see.

And I believe the opposite, but I hope whomever gains power will lead Thailand to what is best for Thailand and its people, and the heck with what farangs feel is right.

Well, then, would you care to elaborate then please? Inquiring farang minds are willing to learn from your wisdom.

[lukamar]

Right now, for the opposition parties, it is first things first. Try and avoid a parliament headed by the TRT. Only way to do this is fight any attempts to form a parliament with less than 500 seats.

What you are saying is that the opposition parties have to disrupt the forming of Parliament and to fight attempts to convene the duly elected parliament. That smacks of an overthrow by a group with no elected representatives and would set a huge precedent. If the Democrats won the next election would it be just as fair for a group of anti-Democrats to protest their win and call for the disillusion of Parliament and the resignation of the Democrat PM. NO, it would be just as wrong as what is going on now.

The TRT has won 460 seats at the moment, with a majority vote, the Opposition 1 and 1 the EC are still trying to figure out the vote count. You can argue the number of no votes was high but you cannot argue that they were all for the PAD/Opposition coalition, in reality probably only 4-5 million were for them, the others were because the people did not like TRT and had no alternate choice. There may have been 11 million no votes/spoiled votes but there still were 16 million Yes votes. That sends a large message from the people to the court system, the privy council and the monarchy regardless of how the Democrats feel about the situation, as they have not won any seats and that also sends a large message. To overturn an election is about as undemocratic as you can get.

What the Democrats are really worried about is their cut of the EC's party money which will drastically shrink to only a couple million because they have failed to win any seats in Parliament.

[lukamar]

Thailand's top opposition party fails to win hearts despite Thaksin ouster

Agence France Presse

BANGKOK : Thailand's top opposition party scored a win by helping to oust Premier Thaksin Shinawatra, but this has done little for the fortunes of a party that lacks a vision for the kingdom's future, analysts say.

The Democrat Party boycotted the April 2 elections, a snap poll called by Thaksin in a bid to end weeks of street rallies demanding his resignation over alleged abuse of power and corruption and to gain a new mandate.

But during the two-month deadlock, the People's Alliance for Democracy, a broad coalition of protest groups who took centre stage in the move against Thaksin, never called on Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva to replace him.

Instead, they asked revered King Bhumibol Adulyadej to appoint a new prime minister.

Analysts say the country's oldest political party, which marked its 60th anniversary last week, has failed to win the confidence of voters during the five years Thaksin has been in office.

"After five years, we still don't have a policy platform from the party. I haven't heard what they are going to do with Thailand," said Thitinan Pongsudhirak, a political science professor at Chulalongkorn University.

"It's very frustrating because they have no policy. The Democrat Party has failed to present themselves as a credible alternative. So far in this crisis, we have Thaksin or nothing," Thitinan said.

Thaksin said last Tuesday he would not accept the post of prime minister when parliament convenes, even though his Thai Rak Thai (Thais Love Thais) party won 56 percent of the vote in the troubled elections.

Bhokin Balakula, the speaker of the house in the outgoing parliament who is tipped as a possible successor to Thaksin, attacked the Democrat Party for giving voters no clear alternatives.

"The Democrat Party should come up with concrete policies. It would benefit the public," Bhokin said on Friday.

Ruengrawee Tichaikul, an expert on Thai politics at the Asia Foundation in Bangkok, agreed.

"I have not seen any creative, concrete proposals in terms of moving against Thaksin's party," she said.

"In the past five years, the Democrat Party did not win the hearts and minds of Thai people. The party is so slow in taking steps because they are conservative. They are fighting inside until they come to a consensus."

Ruengrawee said the party's boycott was effective in forcing Thaksin out of office but even that decision took two days to reach.

"It's so frustrating," she said. "This is very different from Thaksin's party. When Thaksin makes a decision, he can make it in five minutes."

Even with calls mounting for constitutional reform to weaken the power of the prime minister, the Democrat Party has yet to present any concrete ideas.

"The negative outcome of the boycott is that the Democrat Party was not represented in parliament, and the party will have no input in the constitutional reforms because you have to do it in parliament," Thitinan said.

The professor said the party should focus more on presenting a clear platform on the future of Thailand instead of attacking Thaksin.

"They have to stop negative talk about Thaksin because we all know what Thaksin stands for. They should stop telling us what's wrong with Thaksin. Start telling us what's right with the Democrats," Thitinan said.

"What's their policy? Where is the future of Thailand?"

During the 2005 elections which helped Thaksin's party capture 377 of 500 seats in the lower house of parliament, the Democrat Party lost one quarter of its seats, leaving it only 96.

"The Democrats were badly beaten in the election last year and they have not recovered," one Western diplomat told AFP, asking not to be named.

"They also have a money problem," the diplomat added, stressing that the party founded by the telecoms tycoon Thaksin had easily outspent the Democrats in election campaigns.

After last Sunday's polls, the Thai Rak Thai party is expected to win some 460 seats. The Election Commission has yet to release official results.

The Asia Foundation's Ruengrawee was skeptical whether the opposition party that ruled Thailand during much of the 1990s was ready for government again.

"Even after this crisis, the party did not emerge as a strong, credible party," she said. "I'm not sure if they are ready to run the country."

- AFP ch/ct

[jdinasia]

Right now, for the opposition parties, it is first things first. Try and avoid a parliament headed by the TRT. Only way to do this is fight any attempts to form a parliament with less than 500 seats.

What you are saying is that the opposition parties have to disrupt the forming of Parliament and to fight attempts to convene the duly elected parliament. That smacks of an overthrow by a group with no elected representatives and would set a huge precedent. If the Democrats won the next election would it be just as fair for a group of anti-Democrats to protest their win and call for the disillusion of Parliament and the resignation of the Democrat PM. NO, it would be just as wrong as what is going on now.

The TRT has won 460 seats at the moment, with a majority vote, the Opposition 1 and 1 the EC are still trying to figure out the vote count. You can argue the number of no votes was high but you cannot argue that they were all for the PAD/Opposition coalition, in reality probably only 4-5 million were for them, the others were because the people did not like TRT and had no alternate choice. There may have been 11 million no votes/spoiled votes but there still were 16 million Yes votes. That sends a large message from the people to the court system, the privy council and the monarchy regardless of how the Democrats feel about the situation, as they have not won any seats and that also sends a large message. To overturn an election is about as undemocratic as you can get.

What the Democrats are really worried about is their cut of the EC's party money which will drastically shrink to only a couple million because they have failed to win any seats in Parliament.

5555

ummm There IS no Duly elected Parlaiment. (how many times can someone miss the same point?)

Exactly how does someone arrive at the numerical count of how many votes were for a party or against TRT is another piece of delusional accounting ... but hey

Rather doubt EC money is an issue for the Demos either ...

[lukamar]

ummm There IS no Duly elected Parlaiment. (how many times can someone miss the same point?)

That's up to the constitutional court to decide, the majority of the Thai people have already spoken 2 to 1 to have a TRT government. Basing that assumption that the house cannot sit on the 2000 Senate sitting ruling is outdated. The situation is much different at the moment than it was 5 years ago. The house has 461 seats filled by a majority in a free election and is being held up by a concerted effort on the part of a group or groups that have not won a single seat in the house, hoping that lightning will strike twice. How many times can someone think they have the answers to this question before a constitutional court has ruled on it.

Exactly how does someone arrive at the numerical count of how many votes were for a party or against TRT is another piece of delusional accounting ... but hey

It's rather easy to figure out from the EC figures, even with elemental math skills..

TRT received 16,608,977 Votes 66.7%

Others Parties 267,196 Votes 1.1%

No vote Total 8,007,166 Votes 32.2%

As the spoiled ballots were the same percentage as the 200 election you can drop that from the equation, as it's always the same percentage except for last years election which was lower. It's obvious to anyone that not 100% of the No Vote were just because of the PAD campaign. Probably 50% of them were opposition party voters that did not want to vote for the TRT or the PAD but had no choice but to vote NO Vote or TRT, especially upcountry. It's a bit optimistic to say all the No Votes were a reflection of the PAD campaign. Maybe 50%plus of them 4 -5 million were. Delusional is thinking that the NO Vote campaign got 11 Millions votes, by lumping everything that was not a TRT vote together.

Rather doubt EC money is an issue for the Demos either ...

It's many many millions of Baht they have lost, BTW it's going to the TRT because they picked up the Democrat, Chart Thai and others parliamentary seats. The boycott has made the TRT richer, now that's poetic justice.

[Old Man River]

Lukamar, the opposition parties simply want the courts to rule first. This is not an attempt to overthrow parliament. There are two legal issues. First P-Net has filed a lawsuit saying the election should not be recognized due to voting irregularities. P-Net is not an opposition party. The second legal issue is whether a parliament can convene without having 500 seats. Whether the constitution should be amended (again) is a separate issue, although I think all agree that it should be amended.

[Siripon]

ummm There IS no Duly elected Parlaiment. (how many times can someone miss the same point?)

That's up to the constitutional court to decide, the majority of the Thai people have already spoken 2 to 1 to have a TRT government. Basing that assumption that the house cannot sit on the 2000 Senate sitting ruling is outdated. The situation is much different at the moment than it was 5 years ago. The house has 461 seats filled by a majority in a free election and is being held up by a concerted effort on the part of a group or groups that have not won a single seat in the house, hoping that lightning will strike twice. How many times can someone think they have the answers to this question before a constitutional court has ruled on it.

Exactly how does someone arrive at the numerical count of how many votes were for a party or against TRT is another piece of delusional accounting ... but hey

It's rather easy to figure out from the EC figures, even with elemental math skills..

TRT received 16,608,977 Votes 66.7%

Others Parties 267,196 Votes 1.1%

No vote Total 8,007,166 Votes 32.2%

As the spoiled ballots were the same percentage as the 200 election you can drop that from the equation, as it's always the same percentage except for last years election which was lower. It's obvious to anyone that not 100% of the No Vote were just because of the PAD campaign. Probably 50% of them were opposition party voters that did not want to vote for the TRT or the PAD but had no choice but to vote NO Vote or TRT, especially upcountry. It's a bit optimistic to say all the No Votes were a reflection of the PAD campaign. Maybe 50%plus of them 4 -5 million were. Delusional is thinking that the NO Vote campaign got 11 Millions votes, by lumping everything that was not a TRT vote together.

Rather doubt EC money is an issue for the Demos either ...

It's many many millions of Baht they have lost, BTW it's going to the TRT because they picked up the Democrat, Chart Thai and others parliamentary seats. The boycott has made the TRT richer, now that's poetic justice.

I have to disagree with your view regarding spoiled ballots. Weren't the figures over 1 million? An unprecedented amount in Thailand.

[sushiman]

To overturn an election is about as undemocratic as you can get.

May I ask you Lukamar, what you think of these Snap-Elections in the first place??

Was is not triggered by a very undemocratical selfserving tactic/move by one Man only (as far as I know he didn't even consult - as usual - his own party?)

We all can guess that his tricks:

- Snap Elections

- and step back as PM (when and how long noone knows)

was basically a very undemocratic move, to whitewash and reduce the possibility of any corruption charges on behalf of his very own?

Agree? S

So why do you call these Elections in the first place democratic?

I think Mr. Abhisit and many others (8-11million No Votes and/or spoiled votes) made it clear, that they can't agree with these moves anymore, right?