What do you expats invest in Thailand

[Morphun]

It is difficult to find legitimate investment prospects in Thailand. Condominiums would appear to be a good investment only if you are wishing to live in them and do not expect to make a capital gain on selling. Malaysia is a better investment prospect even while you live in Thailand. Also worth noting is that Malaysia, under the Make Malaysia Your Second Home scheme, will issue 10 year visas. If you trust a Thai partner and wish to invest in his or her name, Maehongson is the closest administrative centre to the new Myanmar capital and with the announcement of new roads and a rail link between Chiang Mai and Maehongson, it looks like a good place to leave a few dollars while Myanmar opens up, builds infrastructure and forges new links with Thailand under the aegis of ASEAN.

[Hecate]

I bought a small condo, cash. My bills are about $120 a month for condo fees, electricity, internet and so on. I don't expect the condo to appreciate in the near term, but if I can sell it for what I paid for it after a few years of free rent, I consider that a decent investment. It saves me nearly $1000 each month on rent, storage, restaurant meals, laundry etc. I left the rest of my money in stocks in the west.

You have to get a good lawyer to check over the contract before you buy. It should state that your unit is in the falang 49 per cent. Sometimes more than the 49 per cent have been sold to falangs, which can become a problem when you try to unload the property. Also you need documents showing the money came from overseas, or it will be a problem to get the money out again. Losing receipts and documents is a big deal in Thailand.

Maintenance is a bit of a problem with condos in Thailand, so a great location is the best way to retain property values.

I looked at some houses on leased land, but it sounded like the title reverted back to the seller at the end of the thirty-year term. No thanks.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Not only should you avoid investing serious money in Thailand, but you should avoid taking any advice from investment brokers and financial advisers in Thailand. They are completely unregulated and usually advise you to invest in whatever pays them the largest commissions. Never let anyone else in Thailand manage your pension under any circumstances, no matter how legit or well connected they look.

Edited July 17, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[ChiangMaiPigFarmer]

For the last seven years I have been investing several million baht a year into our (opps - her) pig farm operation.

I am very happy to do this and with eyes wide open understand all the risks.

What does Thailand do in return?

NOTHING

except make sure that:

I need to do the 90 visa visit

I need to do the annual new visa

I cannot get a credit card or loan (banks hate farmers AND expats)

I cannot work on the farm or technically even help on the farm

I cannot use the farm as income credit - The money invested in the farm has no bearing when they ask me how much I make each year - they should be asking how much I invested in Thailand

Thailand does nothing for me and actually they give me a hard time for living and investing here!

Most of the time getting the annual Visa I feel like they think I am a bandit rubbing their treasury.

It is time that Thailand understands there are expats living and investing in their country! Expats that live here and have a family here! Expats that they should be doing every thing in thier power to make happy.

And, as long as I am dumping my complaints out in the open, Thailand claims to be a dual language country - Thai and English. When you want to become a citizen not only do they charge a LARGE fee they make you test out in Thai, formal language Thai spoken and written that not one Thai employee on the farm would pass. Why don't they accept English or Thai? And why a fee - they should be paying me for investing in their country!

Talk about reverse logic to collect a couple more dollars in Immigration fees.

Hay, I cannot see the forest because all of these trees are in the way!

Randall

[Skytrain2hell]

Invest your money offshore (high dividend yield stocks, bonds etc) and drip feed the money in as and when you need it. Just my tuppence worth.

Why on earth should you invest offshore, if you intend to live here? It is easy to find high dividend stocks here. And by buying locally you eliminate the risk of fluctuating exchangerates. There are other risks ofcourse, but IMO not higher here than anywhere else.

Been trading here for 10 years and never looked back. Baht is my currency for better or worse!

Tax on dividends is a flat rate of 10%. Tax on capital gains on the SET is ZERO!

soi41 makes a good point. If you are a tax resident in thailand you do get benefits by investing here. For example, in the dividends of thai stocks these mostly come with tax credits based upon the corporate taxes the company has already paid. For many investors this tax rate is higher than their effective personal tax rate so it is advantageous for such dividend recipients to file tax returns including the dividends and claim this money back. It's worthwhille instead of just accepting the 10% withholding as the final tax.

if you are a tax resident in Thailand you don't pay any taxes on your offshore earnings or capital gains. on top of it you are free to move/invest your money offshore by email, mouseclick or a phone call.

once your money is in Thailand you are at the mercy of rules, regulations, restrictions, documentation and [mostly] ignorant bank employees when you want to move your funds abroad.

That's another strange misconception that foriegners have. I move money in and out of Thailand 3-4 times a year, and haven't had a problem since my first year here. The rules are pretty simple, at least for US citizens. You can only transfer to a US bank that has your exact name on it. It must go from your exact name in the Thai bank to your exact name in a US bank. Done.

Sometimes they ask you to fill out a sheet of paper that says where the money came from, and it's nothing more than a formality to cover their asses in case you are laundering money. If a bank employee doesn't know the rules, I explain it to her, and she confirms it with her superior. Done.

[puipuitom]

In a country, where I am not sure to be allowed to stay next year, not allowed to own my own jouse or company, where if ever my son get an accident and will be unable to take care for himself not sure to be allowed to stay with me, where my only right is to pay, where I am as welcome as the plague... explain me, why should I invest in a country like that ?

It was my dream from 1993-2006 and happy I could withdraw completely.

[WhizBang]

Thailand does nothing for me and actually they give me a hard time for living and investing here!

Most of the time getting the annual Visa I feel like they think I am a bandit rubbing their treasury.

It is time that Thailand understands there are expats living and investing in their country! Expats that live here and have a family here! Expats that they should be doing every thing in thier power to make happy.

Absolutely agree with this. Thailand needs to move it's immigration, investment and retirement policies into the 21st century.

[Mudcrab]

For the last seven years I have been investing several million baht a year into our (opps - her) pig farm operation.

I am very happy to do this and with eyes wide open understand all the risks.

What does Thailand do in return?

NOTHING

except make sure that:

I need to do the 90 visa visit

I need to do the annual new visa

I cannot get a credit card or loan (banks hate farmers AND expats)

I cannot work on the farm or technically even help on the farm

I cannot use the farm as income credit - The money invested in the farm has no bearing when they ask me how much I make each year - they should be asking how much I invested in Thailand

Thailand does nothing for me and actually they give me a hard time for living and investing here!

Most of the time getting the annual Visa I feel like they think I am a bandit rubbing their treasury.

It is time that Thailand understands there are expats living and investing in their country! Expats that live here and have a family here! Expats that they should be doing every thing in thier power to make happy.

And, as long as I am dumping my complaints out in the open, Thailand claims to be a dual language country - Thai and English. When you want to become a citizen not only do they charge a LARGE fee they make you test out in Thai, formal language Thai spoken and written that not one Thai employee on the farm would pass. Why don't they accept English or Thai? And why a fee - they should be paying me for investing in their country!

Talk about reverse logic to collect a couple more dollars in Immigration fees.

Hay, I cannot see the forest because all of these trees are in the way!

Randall

Understand your frustrations with the system...but it IS the system.

Can understand your investing several millions in a pig farm too. Can't understand why you'd continue to do this for seven years though?? that's not investing..... that's throwing your money away...if you haven't had a return in seven years I can see why the banks won't give you a credit card or loan!!!!!

Edited July 17, 2013 by Mudcrab

[rascalman]

Gold is what I like, it is time to buy if you can.

[market trader]

Never invest more in Thailand that your not willing to walk away from!

I can't understand why you post only a emoticon and say nothing.

To build your post totals ? Waste of broadband maybe.

Good point.

[Naam]

Never invest more in Thailand that your not willing to walk away from!

I can't understand why you post only a emoticon and say nothing.

To build your post totals ? Waste of broadband maybe.

i can't understand why you are a circusman who doesn't understand.

[yoshiwara]

In a country, where I am not sure to be allowed to stay next year, not allowed to own my own jouse or company, where if ever my son get an accident and will be unable to take care for himself not sure to be allowed to stay with me, where my only right is to pay, where I am as welcome as the plague... explain me, why should I invest in a country like that ?

It was my dream from 1993-2006 and happy I could withdraw completely.

I think that an investor would require a premium to cover for those negatives plus consider the alternatives outside of Thailand. The thing is that some individuals living in or wanting to live in Thailand desire to make an actual financial commitment to substantiate their emotional commitment. Gaining a footprint of legitimacy is a clumsy way of putting it. Necessary? No, but some people just won't be stopped.

[yoshiwara]

You can invest in Thailand without bringing a penny to Thailand. Just buy into an appropriate investment or unit trust either in your country or offshore. Your primary exposure looking forward is FX risk, so you can build up up to 3 years spending money in baht in a Thai bank savings account. Other than that blow your money on some business venture you know little about. That has been the favourite activity for years.

your primary exposure in this day and age is that your money isn't being taken care of by another Jon Corzine type of individual or another LM Investment and that the whole lot disappears. But then we would never expect that people like you would give any other kind of advice

American friends speak very favourably of Charles Schwab to park their funds

For those in the UK researching funds Trustnet is a good source: http://www.trustnet.com/

Edited July 17, 2013 by yoshiwara

[slipperylobster]

Life insurance is a sure payout...

[itnicolson]

Property funds like CPNRF, QHPF, SPF give a good dividend of 7-8%/a, and there also some very sound companies inThailand like PTT, BCP,CPN, JAS,HMPRO and SAMART whose values will go up again. I've been in the market since april 2012, cleared 17% last year and 8% this year so far, by watching the market and getting out after reaching set profit targets.My profits were enhanced by HMPRO stock dividends, very generous!

HOWEVER I joined the market at 1200 SET index and watched it peak at 1650, now corrected down to 1450, where it will probably stay, security companies predict 1550 by the end of the year but they have to say that to encourage you to buy so they get their commission. But if you are happy with 8% now is a good time to but in!

By the way I opened an internet trading account with an international security company with local offices pick one by going to SET's web pages and searching them down!

Good Luck, BI

[johnlandy]

Invest your money offshore (high dividend yield stocks, bonds etc) and drip feed the money in as and when you need it. Just my tuppence worth.

Why on earth should you invest offshore, if you intend to live here? It is easy to find high dividend stocks here. And by buying locally you eliminate the risk of fluctuating exchangerates. There are other risks ofcourse, but IMO not higher here than anywhere else.

Been trading here for 10 years and never looked back. Baht is my currency for better or worse!

Tax on dividends is a flat rate of 10%. Tax on capital gains on the SET is ZERO!

Have a look at CPNRF, at its present price (17.60) it is yielding around 7% per year, paid quarterly into your account. With good and stable funds like that available here, why go somewhere else?

Because Thailand is an inherently unstable banana republic.

Any foreigner could be removed from the country without any notice or compensation.

Any assets that person had brought here would/could be lost.

Civil war could value the shock market at ZERO tomorrow.

You are happy to accept those risks, many others are not.

No way I would ever bring any of my serious money to Thailand.

And , there are thousands of expats who share your philosophy / opinion (I for one)

Thailand is today nowhere near where 1st world countries were 150 years ago. But, anything more than that 'you can forget it'

Edited July 17, 2013 by johnlandy

[Naam]

That's another strange misconception that foriegners have. I move money in and out of Thailand 3-4 times a year, and haven't had a problem since my first year here. The rules are pretty simple, at least for US citizens. You can only transfer to a US bank that has your exact name on it. It must go from your exact name in the Thai bank to your exact name in a US bank. Done.

Sometimes they ask you to fill out a sheet of paper that says where the money came from, and it's nothing more than a formality to cover their asses in case you are laundering money. If a bank employee doesn't know the rules, I explain it to her, and she confirms it with her superior. Done.

there is money and there is money Honourable Sir Skytrain. how many times have you transferred a hundred or two-hundred-thousand Dollars, exchanged them into Baht, reexchanged those Baht into Dollars and transferred these Dollars by filling out a sheet of paper?

[somtampet]

Not telling u

[Billy The Kid]

I invest in the Thai stock market, and am very happy with it. A lot of the people who will try and scare you out of investing in the SET don't know anything about financial markets, and will give you "what if" doom and gloom scenarious ala FOX News. You just ride out things like the floods or political turmoil. If you're lucky and have cash on hand, you buy after those things do their damage.

Markets go up and down throughout the world. The Thai stock market was one of the best things out there last year, and still shows signs up a continued bull market. Clashes between political parties are normal, and investors understand that. If you don't need too much liquidity, the SET is not a bad choice.

Green energy is a great sector to follow in Thailand. It's mimmicking that of the US during the solar and wind energy boom (and subsequent crash). It's currently in the early stages, and by studying what happened in the US, it should be easier to know when to get out. Follow a few stocks like: HYDRO, DEMCO and UAC.

Then again, if I were 65 years old, I wouldn't dare get too risky...I would just put money into the fixed accounts they have here. I've got my kids' tuition locked in a Bangkok Bank 11 month account, which earns 3.11%.

If you want to start a business here, work in a similar one for at least a year. If you try to learn everything on the go while bleeding out money, you'll most likely fail. Stay away from real estate for the time being, and don't listen to broke farangs with "amazing" business ideas. Good luck.

3.11 % for 11 month ? Great rate. Do you have to pay tax on that ?

[Naam]

Invest your money offshore (high dividend yield stocks, bonds etc) and drip feed the money in as and when you need it. Just my tuppence worth.

Why on earth should you invest offshore, if you intend to live here? It is easy to find high dividend stocks here. And by buying locally you eliminate the risk of fluctuating exchangerates. There are other risks ofcourse, but IMO not higher here than anywhere else.

Been trading here for 10 years and never looked back. Baht is my currency for better or worse!

Tax on dividends is a flat rate of 10%. Tax on capital gains on the SET is ZERO!

Have a look at CPNRF, at its present price (17.60) it is yielding around 7% per year, paid quarterly into your account. With good and stable funds like that available here, why go somewhere else?

-why on earth should you invest onshore when you can buy offshore exactly all assets (e.g. Thai high dividend stocks)?

-and why would you have a risk of fluctuating exchange rates when you keep Baht offshore and use them to buy Baht denominated assets?

-offshore you pay the same 10% tax on dividends (it's a Thai witholding tax) and offshore you pay, as in Thailand zero percent tax on capital gains.

[churchill]

Invest your money offshore (high dividend yield stocks, bonds etc) and drip feed the money in as and when you need it. Just my tuppence worth.

Why on earth should you invest offshore, if you intend to live here? It is easy to find high dividend stocks here. And by buying locally you eliminate the risk of fluctuating exchangerates. There are other risks ofcourse, but IMO not higher here than anywhere else.

Been trading here for 10 years and never looked back. Baht is my currency for better or worse!

Tax on dividends is a flat rate of 10%. Tax on capital gains on the SET is ZERO!

Have a look at CPNRF, at its present price (17.60) it is yielding around 7% per year, paid quarterly into your account. With good and stable funds like that available here, why go somewhere else?

-why on earth should you invest onshore when you can buy offshore exactly all assets (e.g. Thai high dividend stocks)?

-and why would you have a risk of fluctuating exchange rates when you keep Baht offshore and use them to buy Baht denominated assets?

-offshore you pay the same 10% tax on dividends (it's a Thai witholding tax) and offshore you pay, as in Thailand zero percent tax on capital gains.

Naam why don't you start a new thread for those that live here and have money to invest ...

I am sure many would be interested ..

High risk , low risk , currency risks on or off shore etc .......

[ChiangMaiPigFarmer]

I'll tell you why I continue to invest. Because every year we grow. We have moved from a very small village pig farm into an 100 sow farm. Each expansion of the farm took money.

Then, two years ago the famous PRRS hit our farm and two million baht worth of pigs were just "dead meat". Insurance, not here!

So, start buying gilts and start the long process of maturing them into good producing sows - all the while they need their daily chow!

Then there are the famous government stipulated pig prices that move as several large companies desire. About every two years the price of pork drops and the price of feed goes up resulting in our customers exiting the swine business (we sell piglets not finished pigs). When all of the "little boys" (that we and farms like ours sell to) are gone up goes the price of pork again - us, we are stuck with finding new customers! And, I am sure, you can guess who controls the price of feed ..........

Now the farm is starting to make some money and the investing has stopped and thank God the ROI is coming.

Being a farmer is tough; being a farmer that has to compete against a government that is also business player in the same market and several VERY large companies is even harder!

Thank God and Budda my pocket is getting fatter,

Randy http://www.SurinFarm.com

[Billy The Kid]

I found currency very profitable only if you have patient with the time. For example i transferred €30,000 to my bank in Thailand for 50.50 bt for an Euro = 1,515,000 in November 2009, went to thailand for three months stay in August 2010 and saw the rate went to 37 bt , i transferred exactly the same amount back to my local bank in Ireland and got 38 rate for an Euro and got €39600 (€9,600 profit for only 9 months). From those day to today , it is still surfing around 37-42 bracket. I am waiting for a 50 bt then will do the same again with bigger amount.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Billy The Kid

[Naam]

Invest your money offshore (high dividend yield stocks, bonds etc) and drip feed the money in as and when you need it. Just my tuppence worth.

Why on earth should you invest offshore, if you intend to live here? It is easy to find high dividend stocks here. And by buying locally you eliminate the risk of fluctuating exchangerates. There are other risks ofcourse, but IMO not higher here than anywhere else.

Been trading here for 10 years and never looked back. Baht is my currency for better or worse!

Tax on dividends is a flat rate of 10%. Tax on capital gains on the SET is ZERO!

Have a look at CPNRF, at its present price (17.60) it is yielding around 7% per year, paid quarterly into your account. With good and stable funds like that available here, why go somewhere else?

-why on earth should you invest onshore when you can buy offshore exactly all assets (e.g. Thai high dividend stocks)?

-and why would you have a risk of fluctuating exchange rates when you keep Baht offshore and use them to buy Baht denominated assets?

-offshore you pay the same 10% tax on dividends (it's a Thai witholding tax) and offshore you pay, as in Thailand zero percent tax on capital gains.

Naam why don't you start a new thread for those that live here and have money to invest ...

I am sure many would be interested ..

High risk , low risk , currency risks on or off shore etc .......

only a few people would be interested Churchill. the average expat's interest is focussed on how to save either on ATM withdrawals and/or which Thai bank pays 0.1% more on fixed deposits. a thread i opened a few weeks ago on high yield / high risk bond investment died within a few days except for a few TV-members who keep personal contact with me to discuss pros and cons.

in threads like the one we are posting now i submit some personal opinions and try to rectify/clarify some misconceptions like the one above.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Naam

[Anon999]

only a few people would be interested Churchill. the average expat's interest is focussed on how to save either on ATM withdrawals and/or which Thai bank pays 0.1% more on fixed deposits. a thread i opened a few weeks ago on high yield / high risk bond investment died within a few days except for a few TV-members who keep personal contact with me to discuss pros and cons.

in threads like the one we are posting now i submit some personal opinions and try to rectify/clarify some misconceptions like the one above.

Maybe most did not know about your thread, including me. There must be many farangs who do not read TV and who are interested in investing. I have no idea how many newsletters and websites there are here, however, Isaan has a well read website with links to individual cities.

[KittenKong]

.... the average expat's interest is focussed on how to save either on ATM withdrawals and/or which Thai bank pays 0.1% more on fixed deposits. a thread i opened a few weeks ago on high yield / high risk bond investment died within a few days ....

If you are talking about retired or semi-retired expats, it's hardly surprising is it?

I personally am not in the slightest bit interested in anything as risky as the sort of bond investments you mentioned. Why should I be? I dont need to make money; I have more than enough to see me out, even if by the time I reach official retirement age they have stopped paying pensions to the likes of me.

No, I only need to not lose what I have now, and to try and get a return modestly above inflation. The way to do that is not to take big risks and to stick with (relatively) safe investments. So that's what I do. Bit of a no-brainer really.

Those who are looking for thrills will probably do otherwise, but not me.

[Naam]

.... the average expat's interest is focussed on how to save either on ATM withdrawals and/or which Thai bank pays 0.1% more on fixed deposits. a thread i opened a few weeks ago on high yield / high risk bond investment died within a few days ....

If you are talking about retired or semi-retired expats, it's hardly surprising is it?

I personally am not in the slightest bit interested in anything as risky as the sort of bond investments you mentioned. Why should I be? I dont need to make money; I have more than enough to see me out, even if by the time I reach official retirement age they have stopped paying pensions to the likes of me.

No, I only need to not lose what I have now, and to try and get a return modestly above inflation. The way to do that is not to take big risks and to stick with (relatively) safe investments. So that's what I do. Bit of a no-brainer really.

Those who are looking for thrills will probably do otherwise, but not me.

besides that you have more than enough money what is your point?

[el jefe]

.... the average expat's interest is focussed on how to save either on ATM withdrawals and/or which Thai bank pays 0.1% more on fixed deposits. a thread i opened a few weeks ago on high yield / high risk bond investment died within a few days ....

If you are talking about retired or semi-retired expats, it's hardly surprising is it?

I personally am not in the slightest bit interested in anything as risky as the sort of bond investments you mentioned. Why should I be? I dont need to make money; I have more than enough to see me out, even if by the time I reach official retirement age they have stopped paying pensions to the likes of me.

No, I only need to not lose what I have now, and to try and get a return modestly above inflation. The way to do that is not to take big risks and to stick with (relatively) safe investments. So that's what I do. Bit of a no-brainer really.

Those who are looking for thrills will probably do otherwise, but not me.

Perfect example of why Naam is right.

[soi41]

Invest your money offshore (high dividend yield stocks, bonds etc) and drip feed the money in as and when you need it. Just my tuppence worth.

Why on earth should you invest offshore, if you intend to live here? It is easy to find high dividend stocks here. And by buying locally you eliminate the risk of fluctuating exchangerates. There are other risks ofcourse, but IMO not higher here than anywhere else.

Been trading here for 10 years and never looked back. Baht is my currency for better or worse!

Tax on dividends is a flat rate of 10%. Tax on capital gains on the SET is ZERO!

Have a look at CPNRF, at its present price (17.60) it is yielding around 7% per year, paid quarterly into your account. With good and stable funds like that available here, why go somewhere else?

-why on earth should you invest onshore when you can buy offshore exactly all assets (e.g. Thai high dividend stocks)?

-and why would you have a risk of fluctuating exchange rates when you keep Baht offshore and use them to buy Baht denominated assets?

-offshore you pay the same 10% tax on dividends (it's a Thai witholding tax) and offshore you pay, as in Thailand zero percent tax on capital gains.

Makes about as much sense, as for me living in Hua Hin doing my weekly shopping at Tesco in Surin!

Anoyher poster mentioned in an earlier post here, that dividends and other rights are only for Thais.

Not correct, if buying NVDR's (just tick a box, when buying/selling) foreigners have the same rights as Thais!

[soi41]

Invest your money offshore (high dividend yield stocks, bonds etc) and drip feed the money in as and when you need it. Just my tuppence worth.

Why on earth should you invest offshore, if you intend to live here? It is easy to find high dividend stocks here. And by buying locally you eliminate the risk of fluctuating exchangerates. There are other risks ofcourse, but IMO not higher here than anywhere else.

Been trading here for 10 years and never looked back. Baht is my currency for better or worse!

Tax on dividends is a flat rate of 10%. Tax on capital gains on the SET is ZERO!

Have a look at CPNRF, at its present price (17.60) it is yielding around 7% per year, paid quarterly into your account. With good and stable funds like that available here, why go somewhere else?

-why on earth should you invest onshore when you can buy offshore exactly all assets (e.g. Thai high dividend stocks)?

-and why would you have a risk of fluctuating exchange rates when you keep Baht offshore and use them to buy Baht denominated assets?

-offshore you pay the same 10% tax on dividends (it's a Thai witholding tax) and offshore you pay, as in Thailand zero percent tax on capital gains.

Makes about as much sense, as for me living in Hua Hin doing my weekly shopping at Tesco in Surin!

Anoyher poster mentioned in an earlier post here, that dividends and other rights are only for Thais.

Not correct, if buying NVDR's (just tick a box, when buying/selling) foreigners have the same rights as Thais!