What do you expats invest in Thailand

[yoshiwara]

Green energy is a great sector to follow in Thailand. It's mimmicking that of the US during the solar and wind energy boom (and subsequent crash). It's currently in the early stages, and by studying what happened in the US, it should be easier to know when to get out. Follow a few stocks like: HYDRO, DEMCO and UAC.

This morning, just before 11 AM these three stocks are up:

DEMCO +5%

UAC +7%

HYDRO +3%

A day of gains some people would be happy with over an entire year. Obviously, everyday isn't like this, but there are many strong investments in the SET if you can get over the fear factor.

You are measuring over one day. Are you suggesting that someone with little knowledge of the markets should entrust their life savings to day trading?

[Skytrain2hell]

Green energy is a great sector to follow in Thailand. It's mimmicking that of the US during the solar and wind energy boom (and subsequent crash). It's currently in the early stages, and by studying what happened in the US, it should be easier to know when to get out. Follow a few stocks like: HYDRO, DEMCO and UAC.

This morning, just before 11 AM these three stocks are up:

DEMCO +5%

UAC +7%

HYDRO +3%

A day of gains some people would be happy with over an entire year. Obviously, everyday isn't like this, but there are many strong investments in the SET if you can get over the fear factor.

You are measuring over one day. Are you suggesting that someone with little knowledge of the markets should entrust their life savings to day trading?

Yes, I think that would be a great idea. I also think that you actually took the time to read my post, and that you aren't inferring something completely ludicrous.

[yoshiwara]

Green energy is a great sector to follow in Thailand. It's mimmicking that of the US during the solar and wind energy boom (and subsequent crash). It's currently in the early stages, and by studying what happened in the US, it should be easier to know when to get out. Follow a few stocks like: HYDRO, DEMCO and UAC.

This morning, just before 11 AM these three stocks are up:

DEMCO +5%

UAC +7%

HYDRO +3%

A day of gains some people would be happy with over an entire year. Obviously, everyday isn't like this, but there are many strong investments in the SET if you can get over the fear factor.

You are measuring over one day. Are you suggesting that someone with little knowledge of the markets should entrust their life savings to day trading?

Yes, I think that would be a great idea. I also think that you actually took the time to read my post, and that you aren't inferring something completely ludicrous.

If every day isn't like that then why print it as a sell-point? For any other day those gains could be reversed and for any other period up to a year one might be caught out depending on when one went in on a particular stock. Showing an inexperienced saver some stocks and pointing out that they went up 5% today doesn't cut it. Edited July 18, 2013 by yoshiwara

[jinners]

Excellent point and well made, pipped me to the post. Some folks have very short memories. Just 4/5 years ago the "west" as a whole was and is still recovering from an almighty burst bubble.Over stretched personal borrowing, easy loans, 110% finance on offer, Banks were either going under or being nationalised. Top blue chip companies, either dropping like a stone or going bust. Many being bought by eastern countries, China for eg now own a large number of US/Euro companies.. Yet many of the folks on here have a such an ostrich point of view, and knock Thailand at every opportunity on every angle, I seriously wonder <deleted> they are here? Oz/NZ/US/GB must be soooo much better?

The way to make a small fortune in Thailand, is to start with a large one.

Personally, I only invest in Thai women.

"The way to make a small fortune in Thailand, is to start with a large one."

There's plenty of risk everywhere in the world and there are more than a few "black swans" lurking, but most of you are making an emotional call rather than one based on reality in comparing Thailand, the US and the Eurozone.

Look back over the period when the Bush-Cheney economic and financial collapse started gaining momentum. All the safe bets like the US S&P, Japan, the whole of the Eurozone, Lehman Bros., Washington Mutual, WorldCom, General Motors, Enron, PGEC, Bears Stearns, Lloyds, Citi, Northern Rock ... whether or not they survived, they were death traps for investors.

How about investing in "safe" real estate? Or putting your money in a bank in the Eurozone where threats were made to just confiscate funds of Russian or other depositors?

It's possible to make money or lose money in a lot of different places, but if your investment thesis is based on calling one place a banana republic and feeling comfortable with the "absolute safety" offered by investing in the west, you're allowing childish emotions to guide your investments, which rarely ends well.

Everyone got all bent out of shape and made plans to leave Thailand when the exchange rate was falling against the "safe" currencies. That should send a message that you need to build up Baht reserves when the exchange rate is working your way and draw those down when the exchange rate is poor. Whether you invest the money, keep it in a bank, buy gold or whatever, you have the potential to be ahead.

Keeping all your money here would be foolish for a lot of reasons, but over the past 5 years Thailand has pulled in a lot of foreign investment because it presented a good place to put money ... and it paid off.

Protecting your money against inflation and rampant money printing is another consideration that's a looming threat. And keeping your money in Yen or Aus$ or Euros or US$ because they're all so much safer than the baht hasn't been a great strategy recently.

[Time Traveller]

U.S. based no-load mutual funds. I like keeping my money.

Actually "your money" goes to pay the high salaries of the mutual fund managers, even when they lose "your money".

[Utley]

U.S. based no-load mutual funds. I like keeping my money.

Actually "your money" goes to pay the high salaries of the mutual fund managers, even when they lose "your money".

No-load, index funds like the ones that VanGuard offers; virtually no management fees. Read their prospectus: https://investor.vanguard.com/corporate-portal

[Skytrain2hell]

Yes, I think that would be a great idea. I also think that you actually took the time to read my post, and that you aren't inferring something completely ludicrous.

If every day isn't like that then why print it as a sell-point? For any other day those gains could be reversed and for any other period up to a year one might be caught out depending on when one went in on a particular stock. Showing an inexperienced saver some stocks and pointing out that they went up 5% today doesn't cut it.

Would you like my full prospectus on each stock, sir?

I went far enough saying that green energy is a good long-term play in Thailand at the moment as it mimmicks that of green energy stocks in the US. I advised him to begin watching these stocks. I gave him an update the very next day on these stocks. What's your beef with asking him to research a few stocks and then following up on it?

[Skytrain2hell]

U.S. based no-load mutual funds. I like keeping my money.

Actually "your money" goes to pay the high salaries of the mutual fund managers, even when they lose "your money".

A lot of Vaguard funds are incredibly cheap. They work with such a high volume that their fees are miniscule.

[metisdead]

Insulting posts and replies have been removed as well as some off topic posts.

[Thaiaddict01]

question anyone know which bank that you can close the account by mail, fax, or phone? in case I don't go back to Thailand and I can just close it overseas and have them send me a check or wire my balance. For Kasikorn they don't let you do it, you have to close it in person. So when I want to close an account obviously I need to open one without too much hassle for us foreigners, so does anyone know a TH bank account that you can open without too much difficulty and close the account by mail, fax, phone etc? thanks

Can you open up an account for baht and another for USD account? So when you transfer USD over it will be in the USD account, so you won't lose money to fee or shitty exchange rate when bank automatically convert USD to THB. They will give you two different passbooks I think?

Also Any of the banks in Thailand that let you open an account by mail/phone/email?

When I wire money into TH, if there a limit like half million baht or something? or high fees if it's a lot or whatever

thanks guys

[elektrified]

Tax on Dividends? 10% or 15% ?? Can someone confirm.

10%

[gk10002000]

I am not an expat yet, but getting very close. Since I am a US citizen, I can't get away from our Tax man, who love to tax us no matter where we live. Therefore, I don't have any real incentive to sell off my US investments. A large part of my portfolio is in tax free municipal bonds, or dividend paying stocks that are "qualified" dividends and get taxed at a fairly low rate. In addition, I am a Florida resident that has no state income taxes. Also, my ROTH IRA withdrawals are completely tax free.

Having said that, I can't imagine investing in Thailand. It constantly proves every few years how unstable it is and how the leadership and "constitution" are overthrown constantly. Foreigners have few rights there, property (land) can't be owned or is very easily locked up in courts.

I love the place and have been there 14 times, and plan to spend 6 months of every year there, but to put what will soon be my 1 million USD assets there? Not a chance.

[ThailandInvestmentGuide]

Tax on Dividends? 10% or 15% ?? Can someone confirm.

10%

Correct. See here http://www.set.or.th/en/regulations/tax/tax_p1.html

[yoshiwara]

I am not an expat yet, but getting very close. Since I am a US citizen, I can't get away from our Tax man, who love to tax us no matter where we live. Therefore, I don't have any real incentive to sell off my US investments. A large part of my portfolio is in tax free municipal bonds, or dividend paying stocks that are "qualified" dividends and get taxed at a fairly low rate. In addition, I am a Florida resident that has no state income taxes. Also, my ROTH IRA withdrawals are completely tax free.

Having said that, I can't imagine investing in Thailand. It constantly proves every few years how unstable it is and how the leadership and "constitution" are overthrown constantly. Foreigners have few rights there, property (land) can't be owned or is very easily locked up in courts.

I love the place and have been there 14 times, and plan to spend 6 months of every year there, but to put what will soon be my 1 million USD assets there? Not a chance.

And there's the rub. Would I feel comfortable depositing US$1000,000 in Thailand? No. Would I feel comfortable depositing $1m in Hong Kong or Singapore? Yes.

[bkkfaranguy]

I am not an expat yet, but getting very close. Since I am a US citizen, I can't get away from our Tax man, who love to tax us no matter where we live. Therefore, I don't have any real incentive to sell off my US investments. A large part of my portfolio is in tax free municipal bonds, or dividend paying stocks that are "qualified" dividends and get taxed at a fairly low rate. In addition, I am a Florida resident that has no state income taxes. Also, my ROTH IRA withdrawals are completely tax free.

Having said that, I can't imagine investing in Thailand. It constantly proves every few years how unstable it is and how the leadership and "constitution" are overthrown constantly. Foreigners have few rights there, property (land) can't be owned or is very easily locked up in courts.

I love the place and have been there 14 times, and plan to spend 6 months of every year there, but to put what will soon be my 1 million USD assets there? Not a chance.

And there's the rub. Would I feel comfortable depositing US$1000,000 in Thailand? No. Would I feel comfortable depositing $1m in Hong Kong or Singapore? Yes.

Carefull boys you will be called ignorant for such opinions here by some of the much wiser members!

[elektrified]

question anyone know which bank that you can close the account by mail, fax, or phone? in case I don't go back to Thailand and I can just close it overseas and have them send me a check or wire my balance. For Kasikorn they don't let you do it, you have to close it in person. So when I want to close an account obviously I need to open one without too much hassle for us foreigners, so does anyone know a TH bank account that you can open without too much difficulty and close the account by mail, fax, phone etc? thanks

Can you open up an account for baht and another for USD account? So when you transfer USD over it will be in the USD account, so you won't lose money to fee or shitty exchange rate when bank automatically convert USD to THB. They will give you two different passbooks I think?

Also Any of the banks in Thailand that let you open an account by mail/phone/email?

When I wire money into TH, if there a limit like half million baht or something? or high fees if it's a lot or whatever

thanks guys

In Thailand you need to walk into the bank and close it.

You can open a USD, EUR, CHF, etc. at some banks. They are getting more particular now especially with Americans due to pressure being put on them by the U.S. government. If you are an American they may well hand you a U.S. tax form to sign. My broker says within a year or two this will be mandatory for Americans. You will need to open an account with a substantial balance if they let you open a USD account.

You can not open an account by mail or fax. Show up in person with your passport.

[elektrified]

I am not an expat yet, but getting very close. Since I am a US citizen, I can't get away from our Tax man, who love to tax us no matter where we live. Therefore, I don't have any real incentive to sell off my US investments. A large part of my portfolio is in tax free municipal bonds, or dividend paying stocks that are "qualified" dividends and get taxed at a fairly low rate. In addition, I am a Florida resident that has no state income taxes. Also, my ROTH IRA withdrawals are completely tax free.

Having said that, I can't imagine investing in Thailand. It constantly proves every few years how unstable it is and how the leadership and "constitution" are overthrown constantly. Foreigners have few rights there, property (land) can't be owned or is very easily locked up in courts.

I love the place and have been there 14 times, and plan to spend 6 months of every year there, but to put what will soon be my 1 million USD assets there? Not a chance.

And there's the rub. Would I feel comfortable depositing US$1000,000 in Thailand? No. Would I feel comfortable depositing $1m in Hong Kong or Singapore? Yes.

Would I feel comfortable depositing US $1m in USA? No way!

[yoshiwara]

I am not an expat yet, but getting very close. Since I am a US citizen, I can't get away from our Tax man, who love to tax us no matter where we live. Therefore, I don't have any real incentive to sell off my US investments. A large part of my portfolio is in tax free municipal bonds, or dividend paying stocks that are "qualified" dividends and get taxed at a fairly low rate. In addition, I am a Florida resident that has no state income taxes. Also, my ROTH IRA withdrawals are completely tax free.

Having said that, I can't imagine investing in Thailand. It constantly proves every few years how unstable it is and how the leadership and "constitution" are overthrown constantly. Foreigners have few rights there, property (land) can't be owned or is very easily locked up in courts.

I love the place and have been there 14 times, and plan to spend 6 months of every year there, but to put what will soon be my 1 million USD assets there? Not a chance.

And there's the rub. Would I feel comfortable depositing US$1000,000 in Thailand? No. Would I feel comfortable depositing $1m in Hong Kong or Singapore? Yes.

Would I feel comfortable depositing US $1m in USA? No way!

No problem whatsoever and with a war chest of $1m I would be looking for a small studio in NYC.

[KittenKong]

Read what I said a little more carefully: 'A flawed one actually because in the current financial environment setting a target return for 'modestly above inflation' is not an easy task at all.'

I have a question though. Which countries return deposits over 2.5% above inflation which you think are safe?

I took out the longest and best UK deposits I could find when rates were still high (not that long ago in fact) but when it seemed pretty obvious that they wouldnt stay that way for long.

I'm getting around 5% tax-free with full deposit protection and will continue to do so for a few more years yet. By that time I suspect that rates will have risen from where they are now.

[Naam]

Read what I said a little more carefully: 'A flawed one actually because in the current financial environment setting a target return for 'modestly above inflation' is not an easy task at all.'

I have a question though. Which countries return deposits over 2.5% above inflation which you think are safe?

I took out the longest and best UK deposits I could find when rates were still high (not that long ago in fact) but when it seemed pretty obvious that they wouldnt stay that way for long.

I'm getting around 5% tax-free with full deposit protection and will continue to do so for a few more years yet. By that time I suspect that rates will have risen from where they are now.

hmmm... the last time UK interest rates were >5% was 5½ years ago. that's when one Pound fetched 66 Thai Baht and 2.02 US-Dollars.

in the meantime the Pound depreciated vs. Baht 28.78% = linear 5.23% p.a. and vs. Dollar 27.75% = linear 4.05% p.a.

question: where's the beef?

[yoshiwara]

I am not an expat yet, but getting very close. Since I am a US citizen, I can't get away from our Tax man, who love to tax us no matter where we live. Therefore, I don't have any real incentive to sell off my US investments. A large part of my portfolio is in tax free municipal bonds, or dividend paying stocks that are "qualified" dividends and get taxed at a fairly low rate. In addition, I am a Florida resident that has no state income taxes. Also, my ROTH IRA withdrawals are completely tax free.

Having said that, I can't imagine investing in Thailand. It constantly proves every few years how unstable it is and how the leadership and "constitution" are overthrown constantly. Foreigners have few rights there, property (land) can't be owned or is very easily locked up in courts.

I love the place and have been there 14 times, and plan to spend 6 months of every year there, but to put what will soon be my 1 million USD assets there? Not a chance.

And there's the rub. Would I feel comfortable depositing US$1000,000 in Thailand? No. Would I feel comfortable depositing $1m in Hong Kong or Singapore? Yes.

Carefull boys you will be called ignorant for such opinions here by some of the much wiser members!

I think a point has been made that it is possible to invest in Thailand without necessarily doing so from within Thailand.

[KittenKong]

I took out the longest and best UK deposits I could find when rates were still high (not that long ago in fact) but when it seemed pretty obvious that they wouldnt stay that way for long.

I'm getting around 5% tax-free with full deposit protection and will continue to do so for a few more years yet. By that time I suspect that rates will have risen from where they are now.

hmmm... the last time UK interest rates were >5% was 5½ years ago. that's when one Pound fetched 66 Thai Baht and 2.02 US-Dollars.

in the meantime the Pound depreciated vs. Baht 28.78% = linear 5.23% p.a. and vs. Dollar 27.75% = linear 4.05% p.a.

And where exactly did I say that I was getting more than 5%? I said "around 5%" and that is indeed what I am getting. I have four TDs paying between 4.6% and 4.9%. They are less than 2 years old and have several years left to run.

And the GBP is actually worth about 8% more today against the EUR than it was at the time that I converted that cash from EUR to GBP.

The THB seems to be absurdly over-priced to me and due for a significant drop. Not that it bothers me particularly what happens to it as I will probably never have any real exposure to it, any more than I would have much exposure to any country in which I cant live without asking permission.

[Naam]

I took out the longest and best UK deposits I could find when rates were still high (not that long ago in fact) but when it seemed pretty obvious that they wouldnt stay that way for long.

I'm getting around 5% tax-free with full deposit protection and will continue to do so for a few more years yet. By that time I suspect that rates will have risen from where they are now.

hmmm... the last time UK interest rates were >5% was 5½ years ago. that's when one Pound fetched 66 Thai Baht and 2.02 US-Dollars.

in the meantime the Pound depreciated vs. Baht 28.78% = linear 5.23% p.a. and vs. Dollar 27.75% = linear 4.05% p.a.

And where exactly did I say that I was getting more than 5%? I said "around 5%" and that is indeed what I am getting. I have four TDs paying between 4.6% and 4.9%. They are less than 2 years old and have several years left to run.

And the GBP is actually worth about 8% more today against the EUR than it was at the time that I converted that cash from EUR to GBP.

The THB seems to be absurdly over-priced to me and due for a significant drop. Not that it bothers me particularly what happens to it as I will probably never have any real exposure to it, any more than I would have much exposure to any country in which I cant live without asking permission.

and where exactly did i say you are getting more than 5%?

you might indeed get your claimed 4.6 and 4.9%, but not on cash deposits, entered 2 years ago with a full (UK government) guarantee.

as far as THB is concerned... this forum is mainly for expats living in Thailand, the topic of this thread is "what do you expats invest in Thailand?" either you live in Thailand meaning that GBP's devaluation vs THB affects you validates my statement "where's the beef?" or you don't live in Thailand then your "4.6 and 4.9%" are totally irrelevant.

do you agree? yes or yes? delete which is not applicable

[Naam]

I took out the longest and best UK deposits I could find when rates were still high (not that long ago in fact) but when it seemed pretty obvious that they wouldnt stay that way for long.

I'm getting around 5% tax-free with full deposit protection and will continue to do so for a few more years yet. By that time I suspect that rates will have risen from where they are now.

hmmm... the last time UK interest rates were >5% was 5½ years ago. that's when one Pound fetched 66 Thai Baht and 2.02 US-Dollars.

in the meantime the Pound depreciated vs. Baht 28.78% = linear 5.23% p.a. and vs. Dollar 27.75% = linear 4.05% p.a.

And where exactly did I say that I was getting more than 5%? I said "around 5%" and that is indeed what I am getting. I have four TDs paying between 4.6% and 4.9%. They are less than 2 years old and have several years left to run.

And the GBP is actually worth about 8% more today against the EUR than it was at the time that I converted that cash from EUR to GBP.

The THB seems to be absurdly over-priced to me and due for a significant drop. Not that it bothers me particularly what happens to it as I will probably never have any real exposure to it, any more than I would have much exposure to any country in which I cant live without asking permission.

and where exactly did i say you are getting more than 5%?

you might indeed get your claimed 4.6 and 4.9%, but not on cash deposits, entered 2 years ago with a full (UK government) guarantee.

as far as THB is concerned... this forum is mainly for expats living in Thailand, the topic of this thread is "what do you expats invest in Thailand?" either you live in Thailand meaning that GBP's devaluation vs THB affects you validates my statement "where's the beef?" or you don't live in Thailand then your "4.6 and 4.9%" are totally irrelevant.

do you agree? yes or yes? delete which is not applicable

[KittenKong]

and where exactly did i say you are getting more than 5%?

Oh, so your comment about the last time UK rates were above 5% being 5 years ago was just completely irrelevant then? Fair enough, but you could warn people when you are doing this as some posters may suppose that you intend your comments to be relevant.

you might indeed get your claimed 4.6 and 4.9%, but not on cash deposits, entered 2 years ago with a full (UK government) guarantee.

Strange. My bank statement says otherwise but apparently your omniscience in some way trumps this?

Maybe you could check on historical rates for 5-year TDs from the likes of Clydesdale Bank, Scottish Widows and SBIUK (to mention only 3, there are others). Then come back and acknowledge that you dont have a clue what you are spouting off about.

as far as THB is concerned... this forum is mainly for expats living in Thailand, the topic of this thread is "what do you expats invest in Thailand?" either you live in Thailand meaning that GBP's devaluation vs THB affects you validates my statement "where's the beef?" or you don't live in Thailand then your "4.6 and 4.9%" are totally irrelevant.

Not really. The returns I get are fully relevant to me and do not depend on where I live. What I spend here is only a small percentage of my yearly income. (In fact I'm still spending cash I converted to THB 3 years ago, and will still be spending it in another 2 or 3 years, unless I have some large unexpected bills).

As an expat I wouldn't put large sums in Thailand regardless of where I lived. Instead I have put them elsewhere where I get a decent return and more security, in a country where there are no exchange controls and where I can come and go and live or work as I please without asking anyone's permission. I can even buy a house or land there.

And as far as I know that is relevant to the title of the thread.

[Naam]

The returns I get are fully relevant to me and do not depend on where I live.

i will not argue with that kind of wisdom

[yoshiwara]

As an expat I wouldn't put large sums in Thailand regardless of where I lived. Instead I have put them elsewhere where I get a decent return and more security, in a country where there are no exchange controls and where I can come and go and live or work as I please without asking anyone's permission. I can even buy a house or land there.

And as far as I know that is relevant to the title of the thread.

The pertinent question is what one does now looking forward.

[churchill]

As an expat I wouldn't put large sums in Thailand regardless of where I lived. Instead I have put them elsewhere where I get a decent return and more security, in a country where there are no exchange controls and where I can come and go and live or work as I please without asking anyone's permission. I can even buy a house or land there.

And as far as I know that is relevant to the title of the thread.

The pertinent question is what one does now looking forward.

How does a question answer a question ...

[yoshiwara]

As an expat I wouldn't put large sums in Thailand regardless of where I lived. Instead I have put them elsewhere where I get a decent return and more security, in a country where there are no exchange controls and where I can come and go and live or work as I please without asking anyone's permission. I can even buy a house or land there.

And as far as I know that is relevant to the title of the thread.

The pertinent question is what one does now looking forward.

How does a question answer a question ...

Why do some people insist that the answer to the question 'what should I do now?' is to answer 'This is what I did 2 years ago' when the criteria have changed and their own circumstances do not necessarily fit into others ? Edited July 20, 2013 by yoshiwara

[KittenKong]

Why do some people insist that the answer to the question 'what should I do now?' is to answer 'This is what I did 2 years ago' when the criteria have changed and their own circumstances do not necessarily fit into others ?

I dont have to think about what to do now because 2 years ago I made some decisions with the next 5 years in mind. In a couple of years' time I will be thinking again about what to do for the next 5 years or so.

At the moment I expect that by then QE will be dead and buried, banks will have bolstered up their capital and interest rates will have risen somewhat, which should mean that my replacement TDs will earn me about the same amount as my current ones, or maybe more. I also expect to have a greater percentage of my assets in stocks and less in cash, though of course this will depend on the state of the global economy at that time. I probably wont be buying gilts (though it is a possibilty) and I will even less likely to be buying PIBs or the "core capital deferred share" instruments that have begun to appear recently.

As for one person's criteria not fitting another person's, surely that's obvious? If everyone had the same needs there would be no choice of banks or accounts or investments or anything else for that matter. But that isnt the case. And so you look at what others do, see how their solutions would fit your circumstances, or toss a coin or read your tea-leaves and then act accordingly.

And as far as I'm aware the topic of this thread is not "what should I do now?" but "what do you expats do?". I've given my answer and anyone is free to learn from it or wipe their arse with it, as the fancy takes them. My system fits my needs and I've done well by it, and that's all I expect from it. I certainly dont pretend to be in any position to advise others, unlike some know-it-alls one can find on here.