Contamination: Thai rice safety fears

[apetley]

When the British beef industry was hit by mad cow disease we had Members of the Govt force feeding their kids burgers to prove it was safe. Maybe we need a pr push of the shovelling of rice into hiso kids mouths to show Thai rice is fit to eat.

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[slapout]

With the track record of the millers, packaging facilities, transport of foreign rice into the system, storage and subsquent blacklisting, physical testing for contanimation, etc I will not depned on 'truth in country/product of orgin' on a bag containing rice.

I wonder why the PM has gone quiet on the quality of Thai rice, taking action against those who question rice quality, after a few days of threats, orders, and assurances to the public as well as issuing a challange to prove bad quality by the PM, it looks like she wants to compete with the rest of the cabinet in making a complete fool of herself.

[pattayaorganic]

The Thai standard for Minimum Residual Level (MRL) of MeBr in rice is 0.1mg/kg.

97mg/kg represents a level above the Thai standard of nearly 1000 times!!!

Dear Mr. Taksin and all the idiots who admonished me when I first posted my predictions

on the rice scheme failures, rampant inflation from the minimum wage scheme, traffic jams, etc. from the idiotic policies

of this administration. You do not and cannot control market forces to your will. Of course you already know that but the uneducated farmers that make up the bulk of your base do not understand economics and that is what keeps you in office.

Of course, if you push it too far, you never know what may happen because the uneducated farmers are starting to realise that believing in you is like chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

Me thinks as the chances for a return to Thailand and change in the charter become ever more remote, you will see more bold and more radical measures coming from the current "administration" and the red mobs.

I am starting to dig a deep hole for when TSHTF.

[Thai at Heart]

With the track record of the millers, packaging facilities, transport of foreign rice into the system, storage and subsquent blacklisting, physical testing for contanimation, etc I will not depned on 'truth in country/product of orgin' on a bag containing rice.

I wonder why the PM has gone quiet on the quality of Thai rice, taking action against those who question rice quality, after a few days of threats, orders, and assurances to the public as well as issuing a challange to prove bad quality by the PM, it looks like she wants to compete with the rest of the cabinet in making a complete fool of herself.

The damage is done. The results are on the front page of the papers. There are brands here in Thailand that are way out of spec. Aside from the rotting mass in the warehouse, now they have tainted it chemically. They will have to work for a very very long time to get confidence back into the industry. What is missing so far, is why there is such a huge discrepancy in the results?

Is it because of longer periods of storage, the residues build up with every time it is re-fumigated? If so, who the hell is going to buy 2012 crop rice now? It would appear so....

Cereals and Milled Foods

Methyl bromide is widely used for the fumigation of almost every type of cereal and cereal product. Because it penetrates densely packed materials, it is especially useful for the treatment of flours and meals (see Schedule P). Although methyl bromide will react with the protein fraction of wheat (Winteringham et al, 1955), a number of studies have shown that a single treatment at recommended dosages has little or no adverse effect on food value or bread making quality. Even repeated fumigation of wheat stored over a 3year period with a total of 8 treatments caused no significant effect on the vitamin B-6 components (Polansky and Toepfer, 1971) or Tocopherols (Slover and Lehmann, 1972). However, there was a gradual increase in inorganic bromide residue and there were some indications of minor changes in physical qualities of bread made from this wheat. Some members of a taste panel detected a stale aroma in laboratory-type breads and crumbly texture in rolls made from wheats exposed to repeated methyl bromide fumigations (Matthews et al, 1970 a, .

It has been noted that bread made from flour fumigated with excessive dosages of methyl bromide may have a foreign odour, and if the bread is toasted an unpleasant off-flavour may be produced. Occurence of this phenomenon is rare and sporadic; Brown et al (1961) reviewed a number of reports of this taint encountered under commercial conditions and carried out a number of tests in the laboratory and they came to the following conclusion:

"It would now appear that some taint is possible even at dosages normally used commercially for insect control. This tainting usually takes the form of abnormal odours when the hot loaves are removed from the oven.

The taste of the bread when cold is quite unaffected at these levels of treatment but a faint odour may still be detected if the bread has been wrapped in polythene or similar material. The avoidance of taint is made more difficult by the likelihood of uneven distribution of fumigant in many types of treatment. However, the risks become very slight if care is taken to limit the level of treatment, if restrictions are placed on repeated fumigation, and if appropriate dilution of fumigated flour by unfumigated flour is arranged where necessary. Over many years very large tonnages of flour have been fumigated with methyl bromide without difficulty and the number of complaints that have come to light is extremely small. These might have been avoided if the precautions suggested had been followed."

As general precautions in the fumigation of flour with methyl bromide great care must be taken not to exceed recommended concentrations or treatment periods; to ensure that even distribution of the fumigant be effected as quickly as possible after the beginning of the treatment and that aeration of the entire stock be conducted quickly and thoroughly immediately on termination of the treatment.

RESIDUES IN FOODSTUFS

Following fumigation of foodstuffs, the greater part of the methyl bromide is desorbed and diffuses away quickly. Under normal circumstances gaseous methyl bromide does not present a residue problem. However, there is usually a small, variable amount of permanent residue resulting from the chemical reaction between this fumigant and some constituents of the material. The reaction profioct, which is usually easily detectable, is inorganic bromide. In considering this subject it must be borne in mind that many foodstuffs contain natural ly occurring bromides ( Heywood , 1966) .

http://www.fao.org/docrep/x5042e/x5042e08.htm

THIS IS FROM 1966 and 1970. And they didn't know methyl bromide could do this? These people are completely inept.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/x5042e/x5042e0a.htm

However if they had used phosphine, it would appear to be a lot less likely to create such serious residues. So, it would appear that this problem is absolutely of their own making, by wanting to save a few cents per kilo by using methyl bromide instead of aluminium or magnesium phosphide....

[nosatisfaction]

What was the statement from the government don't worry the rice is fine. So they lied again?

They were worried cp might sue them.

wouldn't this be a result of the actually ongoing problem of this kind of intoxication case in India where about 30 children died ?

anyhow, it is probably of general interest

[thhMan]

I love Thailand and the real Thais...

But <deleted>, this is bullshit... It never ends...

[drdoom6996]

The rules are all there already. Just absolutely no one enforces it.

A Rule or Law that is not enforced is what, a Suggestion? What are they worth to the law abiding public? Absolutely Nothing.

[drdoom6996]

The rules are all there already. Just absolutely no one enforces it.

A Rule or Law that is not enforced is what, a Suggestion? What are they worth to the law abiding public? Absolutely Nothing.

[Thai at Heart]

The Thai standard for Minimum Residual Level (MRL) of MeBr in rice is 0.1mg/kg.

97mg/kg represents a level above the Thai standard of nearly 1000 times!!!

Dear Mr. Taksin and all the idiots who admonished me when I first posted my predictions

on the rice scheme failures, rampant inflation from the minimum wage scheme, traffic jams, etc. from the idiotic policies

of this administration. You do not and cannot control market forces to your will. Of course you already know that but the uneducated farmers that make up the bulk of your base do not understand economics and that is what keeps you in office.

Of course, if you push it too far, you never know what may happen because the uneducated farmers are starting to realise that believing in you is like chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

Me thinks as the chances for a return to Thailand and change in the charter become ever more remote, you will see more bold and more radical measures coming from the current "administration" and the red mobs.

I am starting to dig a deep hole for when TSHTF.

In which case there isn't a single brand that underwent testing that meets the Thai regulation. This is all down to the supply chain for the domestic industry having been created to be so fast, that probably domestic product didn't need fumigation, and it created an effective barrier against any imports, which woul have course been fumigated for shipment.

So where is the FDA claiming that ALL the brands should be taken off the shelf?

[Thai at Heart]

The rules are all there already. Just absolutely no one enforces it.

A Rule or Law that is not enforced is what, a Suggestion? What are they worth to the law abiding public? Absolutely Nothing.

All the FDA rules are in place, all the export MRL's are in place, and yet not one of the esteemed rice companies has a brand which fits within the Thai MRL for methyl bromide it would appear.

While the FDA is busy screwing with imports of cosmetics from international brands which have been tested a billion times elsewhere in the world, and insisting on labelling for Heinz baked beans, they have apparently neglected to notice that the national staple food may be beyond the spec of their own limits. great.

[GuyL]

The subject of how to solve the problem of contaminated Thai rice was discussed in depth at my son's school the other day.

Their solution? Eat Japanese rice instead.

From the paddy fields located in the neighborhood of Fukushima, for instance?

[eddie61]

I don't see the problem; chemical-laden rice goes really well with tripe-fed chicken over the top and a side-helping of pesticide-laden veggies, all brought together with lashings of MSG! Amazing Thailand indeed, though can't really blame them as this is the MO in most of this region.

it also goes well with prawns http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2294246/Love-eating-prawns-Youll-right-tell-THEY-fed-on.html

[Thaddeus]

Serving Suggestion.

[GentlemanJim]

So we have a PM threatening to take action against anyone that says there is a problem with Thai rice, and 3 days later we are told there is a problem. These people are frakking unbelievable. I said on this forum a month ago not to eat certain brands of rice that were about to hit the supermarket because a family friend who works in the factory said they were having to wash the rice with formaline to make it 'white' again. Few people believed me and some even took the piss. These politicians and mill owners do not give a frakk about you or your families health they only care where the money for the next luxury car is from....fact.

Can all the red apologists on here stock up on the 99baht for 5 kilos of rice in the supermarkets please. Eat your fill, over and over again!

I think I am going to have green curry tonight....with mashed potato.

[BudRight]

I wish they would stop telling people in the US not to wash rice. It seems worth it to miss out a few minerals if it means skipping any of these water soluble poisons.

[robertson468]

I suspect the Thai Politicians have either taken on face value what the producers have told them, without checking, or have gone into panic mode and denied the allegations without checking the facts. Either way, now it has gone beyond a domestic issue and is in the International Arena, other Countries have been obliged to check the rice because of the rumours - clearly no other Country would dare to ignore the issue, without carrying out their own checks. Because of this incompetence by Thai Officials, not only has Thai Rice lost it's reputation but the reputed "quick sale" to balance the books is highly unlikely to happen, therefore the Rice Pledging Scheme will now be carrying a very large unforeseen debt. With the right controls, checks and balances, all this could have been avoided and I am surprised that the opposition has not started legal action against the Government, or is this being held back for the next exciting installment in this fascinating saga?

[culicine]

On a serious note, where can one buy good quality imported rice? What brands?

[OzMick]

PTP and Steely Dan have a lot in common (no, not the band!).

[Thai at Heart]

I suspect the Thai Politicians have either taken on face value what the producers have told them, without checking, or have gone into panic mode and denied the allegations without checking the facts. Either way, now it has gone beyond a domestic issue and is in the International Arena, other Countries have been obliged to check the rice because of the rumours - clearly no other Country would dare to ignore the issue, without carrying out their own checks. Because of this incompetence by Thai Officials, not only has Thai Rice lost it's reputation but the reputed "quick sale" to balance the books is highly unlikely to happen, therefore the Rice Pledging Scheme will now be carrying a very large unforeseen debt. With the right controls, checks and balances, all this could have been avoided and I am surprised that the opposition has not started legal action against the Government, or is this being held back for the next exciting installment in this fascinating saga?

If this story runs, and the results really start rolling in showing it prohibited from export or even worse, prohibitied from domestic consumption, it won't be an unforseen loss, it will be a complete loss.

The government has handled this mess so badly, the domestic market will even start to get jumpy. Lest we forget, they are the biggest consumer of Thai rice.

[Robby nz]

"The government was also planning to ban methyl bromide, a pesticide used to kill rice-eating bugs, within two years, he said."

Two years? How about right now?

Aw, come on, think man, think.

They cant ban it right now, there must be a heck of a lot of it about out there.

If it were banned now someone , no doubt someone important, would lose a heap of money.

And the health of the peasants who have to eat the stuff does not compare to that.

[Halion]

Cancerous rice and farm produce, cancerous Government, cancerous culture. The whole country needs to be put on chemotherapy.

[MaxLee]

Thailand aka Bangkok ONLY BANGKOK, is becoming the most expensive country in South East ASEAN, and the most backstabbing deteriorating quality polluted...

the hub of contaminated diarrhea!!!!

Edited July 18, 2013 by MaxLee

[Thai at Heart]

http://gain.fas.usda.gov/Recent%20GAIN%20Publications/Thai%20FDA%20Revising%20Pesticide%20MRLs%20in%20Foods_Bangkok_Thailand_9-21-2009.pdf

Thai domestic MRL's

[GiantFan]

Please, having dealt with the FDA for many years, I think they are only concerned with preventing foreign products being imported into Thailand. Import barrier.

Pay through the nose for re-testing, etc... and the Thai %'s are way off the international norms. I have a friend that was importing milk and had to stash her samples in her car trunk for a week so that the % of some vitamin or other would come down to Thai standards. Pure import barrier.

[Baerboxer]

All of this because of the scheming of one person. Someone whose strategies were designed for no other reason than self benefit. The likely results, massive financial loss, the country's enviable reputation for premium rice in tatters, loss of postion as the world's number 1 rice exporter, government credibility again threatend due to inept management and lies, an increase in corruption and now very real threats to health. The government response so far has been denial or threat of legal action against anyone who speaks out.

Lesser scandals than this have bought down many governments in other countries; or least involved the sacking of senior politicians. Here - its do as your told or else, we're in charge mentality. This may work domestically but will be laughed off internationally. The root problem always was you can't manipulate and control international markets like you can a domestic one when you have a monopoly and make the rules up as you go along. Just think what will happen if they ever get their hands on 2.2 trillion.

Thailand is run like a family business. Those in senior positions are appointed through nepotism. cronyism, and family connections, not through ability, knowledge or experience. The results are self evident.

[Robby nz]

I am surprised that the opposition has not started legal action against the Government, or is this being held back for the next exciting installment in this fascinating saga?

It would seem from another source that the Dems have been busy and are on to another way the scheme has been done over :

Democrat MPs yesterday played a video clip showing how to rort the rice-pledging scheme by stealing stockpiled rice and replacing it with low-grade grain.

[Baerboxer]

All of this because of the scheming of one person. Someone whose strategies were designed for no other reason than self benefit. The likely results, massive financial loss, the country's enviable reputation for premium rice in tatters, loss of postion as the world's number 1 rice exporter, government credibility again threatend due to inept management and lies, an increase in corruption and now very real threats to health. The government response so far has been denial or threat of legal action against anyone who speaks out.

Lesser scandals than this have bought down many governments in other countries; or least involved the sacking of senior politicians. Here - its do as your told or else, we're in charge mentality. This may work domestically but will be laughed off internationally. The root problem always was you can't manipulate and control international markets like you can a domestic one when you have a monopoly and make the rules up as you go along. Just think what will happen if they ever get their hands on 2.2 trillion.

Thailand is run like a family business. Those in senior positions are appointed through nepotism. cronyism, and family connections, not through ability, knowledge or experience. The results are self evident.

[puipuitom]

Why I see nothing about AFLATOXIN, a natural "shit" of the mould aspergillus flavus, which can grow in humid and bad stored... RICE ?

For the EU levels of 2 ppb ( parts per billion = microgram per kg) for the type B1 already gives a border blockade, and 4 ppb for the sum of B1+B2+G1+G2.

For Thailand the level is at 30 ppb, so with a yearly consumption of.. 60 kg / hear instead of .. 4 kg in the EU your chances to get liver cancer is about 7.5 x 15 = over 100 x so high as for EU.

Google a litte on Internet and you will forget the "small" problems with phosphine and the far more dangerous metylbromide, already forbidden in the EU since 2005

THAT should be MY worry, and IS my worry as foods buyer from Thailand, for rice vermicelli and rice. As buyer for Aldi retail 1977-84 and as my own tropifood co since 1994

Aside of yeast and mould, 1000 cfu/g in Thai samples now, while my customers want 50, but will accept 200 when no other choice.

And Thai government, FDA, MP's, nearly the entire rice industry - except some VERY GOOD ONES - ... contine NOT to tell anything about aflatoxin.

I insist to get for every CONTAINER a lab test of an international ISO 17025 accredited lanb, and insist THEY draw the samples.

Again... except some very good co's I work with already for many years. not the cheapest, but the most reliable ones.

[Estrada]

Methyl Bromide is a banned substance under the Montreal Protocol as it is an ozone layer depleting gas. Most Countries who signed the protocol phased it out by 2005. Some less developed countries were given an extra 5 years to clean up their act, so Thailand should not have been using it since 2010. My question is why are they even using Methyl Bromide? The answer is greed and corruption. Halon Gas fire extinguishers were also banned by the Montreal Protocol and it became illegal to own, destroy or discharge one, however in Thailand some companies in Thailand bought the Halon Gas cheap and were installing Halon Gas fire extinguishers in Thai buildings, no doubt making huge profits. Similarly, Methyl Bromide was used for fire extinguishing systems and it is possible that someone has a lot of banned Methyl Bromide gas that he wants to sell to the rice mills and make a huge profit. Certainly in the past, if not now, a certain Suphanburi politician controlled all hazardous chemical imports.

[GentlemanJim]

Why I see nothing about AFLATOXIN, a natural "shit" of the mould aspergillus flavus, which can grow in humid and bad stored... RICE ?

For the EU levels of 2 ppb ( parts per billion = microgram per kg) for the type B1 already gives a border blockade, and 4 ppb for the sum of B1+B2+G1+G2.

For Thailand the level is at 30 ppb, so with a yearly consumption of.. 60 kg / hear instead of .. 4 kg in the EU your chances to get liver cancer is about 7.5 x 15 = over 100 x so high as for EU.

Google a litte on Internet and you will forget the "small" problems with phosphine and the far more dangerous metylbromide, already forbidden in the EU since 2005

THAT should be MY worry, and IS my worry as foods buyer from Thailand, for rice vermicelli and rice. As buyer for Aldi retail 1977-84 and as my own tropifood co since 1994

Aside of yeast and mould, 1000 cfu/g in Thai samples now, while my customers want 50, but will accept 200 when no other choice.

And Thai government, FDA, MP's, nearly the entire rice industry - except some VERY GOOD ONES - ... contine NOT to tell anything about aflatoxin.

I insist to get for every CONTAINER a lab test of an international ISO 17025 accredited lanb, and insist THEY draw the samples.

Again... except some very good co's I work with already for many years. not the cheapest, but the most reliable ones.

Thanks for the well informed post. In your opinion with the results you have seen from the lab testing, what brands of rice are the safest in terms of chemical content.