Thailand and the Vietnam War

[SinglePot]

thanks.

Now I'll shut the fck up.

[SinglePot]

Sir. Yes Sir.

[Nignoy]

Vietnam was the free world (the US) v the Communists if I recall correctly.

Interested to hear from any veterans if it made any difference whether your fellow GI was black or white when you had the VC on your arse?

Speaking from my experience which was with Special Forces in Thailand - color of skin made little to no difference at least in SF. Everyone had to go through the same schools and pass muster, everyone was qualified or he wouldn't be in the unit. If you were in Special Forces you were a volunteer and part of 10% of 10%. Blacks, Hispanics and American Asians were perhaps smaller in percentage numbers than in regular military forces where the draft filled the ranks. Draftees could be in Special Forces in those days - but he had to volunteer for SF - pass all the tests - finish all the training and he had to extend his enlistment period in almost all cases due to training time and tour of duty requirements.

Bottom line SF had little racial problem for the reasons cited above. When in the field on jungle patrol or defending an outpost we were not concerned with color of skin -- rather just "is he competent and can I count on him",. When off duty - down time was most often shared together in the clubs - we looked out for each other even then - making sure every guy got back to the hotel or back to base.

In Thailand especially around the big Air Bases which were often commingled with large Army camps - due to the large numbers of troops - "black to white" often reflected the ratio of the population back in the States. Back then the custom in larger arenas was more to hanging out with people like yourself in your off duty hours as it was the custom in the States. But just from my observations when 'on duty' in Thailand men just did their jobs. Was there discrimination? Probably and some racism too - after all that was what was going on in the States - the military was a reflection of that. Over all however, in the late 60's into the early 70's military personnel regulations, command structure and discipline was a fairer deal for minorities than in civilian life. in august 1964 I was sent from CRE Crown at Leong Nok Tha to the airbase at Korat for minor Surgery, my driver was a maori in the NZ engineers, he was not allowed in the same billet area or to eat in the same part of the messhall,because of his colour, and most of the bars in downtown korat were segregated too, as we were leaving korat to return to unit a couple of USAAF Police stopped our vehicle and started giving freddy ahard time once again because of his colour, sadly they picked on the wrong bloke to get physical with ,we kept their armbands and nightsticks as souvenirs, about4 weeks later,there was a curious outbreak of large day glow Kiwi transfers appearing on korat based air craft and vehicles even the control tower got a couple

Again - this is my opinion based on my own personal observations and experiences - I don't claim it to be a universal truth - because I was looking at the world through blue eyes.

[SinglePot]

Vietnam was the free world (the US) v the Communists if I recall correctly.

Interested to hear from any veterans if it made any difference whether your fellow GI was black or white when you had the VC on your arse?

Speaking from my experience which was with Special Forces in Thailand - color of skin made little to no difference at least in SF. Everyone had to go through the same schools and pass muster, everyone was qualified or he wouldn't be in the unit. If you were in Special Forces you were a volunteer and part of 10% of 10%. Blacks, Hispanics and American Asians were perhaps smaller in percentage numbers than in regular military forces where the draft filled the ranks. Draftees could be in Special Forces in those days - but he had to volunteer for SF - pass all the tests - finish all the training and he had to extend his enlistment period in almost all cases due to training time and tour of duty requirements.

Bottom line SF had little racial problem for the reasons cited above. When in the field on jungle patrol or defending an outpost we were not concerned with color of skin -- rather just "is he competent and can I count on him",. When off duty - down time was most often shared together in the clubs - we looked out for each other even then - making sure every guy got back to the hotel or back to base.

In Thailand especially around the big Air Bases which were often commingled with large Army camps - due to the large numbers of troops - "black to white" often reflected the ratio of the population back in the States. Back then the custom in larger arenas was more to hanging out with people like yourself in your off duty hours as it was the custom in the States. But just from my observations when 'on duty' in Thailand men just did their jobs. Was there discrimination? Probably and some racism too - after all that was what was going on in the States - the military was a reflection of that. Over all however, in the late 60's into the early 70's military personnel regulations, command structure and discipline was a fairer deal for minorities than in civilian life. in august 1964 I was sent from CRE Crown at Leong Nok Tha to the airbase at Korat for minor Surgery, my driver was a maori in the NZ engineers, he was not allowed in the same billet area or to eat in the same part of the messhall,because of his colour, and most of the bars in downtown korat were segregated too, as we were leaving korat to return to unit a couple of USAAF Police stopped our vehicle and started giving freddy ahard time once again because of his colour, sadly they picked on the wrong bloke to get physical with ,we kept their armbands and nightsticks as souvenirs, about4 weeks later,there was a curious outbreak of large day glow Kiwi transfers appearing on korat based air craft and vehicles even the control tower got a couple

Again - this is my opinion based on my own personal observations and experiences - I don't claim it to be a universal truth - because I was looking at the world through blue eyes.

And?

[JDGRUEN]

Vietnam was the free world (the US) v the Communists if I recall correctly.

Interested to hear from any veterans if it made any difference whether your fellow GI was black or white when you had the VC on your arse?

Speaking from my experience which was with Special Forces in Thailand - color of skin made little to no difference at least in SF. Everyone had to go through the same schools and pass muster, everyone was qualified or he wouldn't be in the unit. If you were in Special Forces you were a volunteer and part of 10% of 10%. Blacks, Hispanics and American Asians were perhaps smaller in percentage numbers than in regular military forces where the draft filled the ranks. Draftees could be in Special Forces in those days - but he had to volunteer for SF - pass all the tests - finish all the training and he had to extend his enlistment period in almost all cases due to training time and tour of duty requirements.

Bottom line SF had little racial problem for the reasons cited above. When in the field on jungle patrol or defending an outpost we were not concerned with color of skin -- rather just "is he competent and can I count on him",. When off duty - down time was most often shared together in the clubs - we looked out for each other even then - making sure every guy got back to the hotel or back to base.

In Thailand especially around the big Air Bases which were often commingled with large Army camps - due to the large numbers of troops - "black to white" often reflected the ratio of the population back in the States. Back then the custom in larger arenas was more to hanging out with people like yourself in your off duty hours as it was the custom in the States. But just from my observations when 'on duty' in Thailand men just did their jobs. Was there discrimination? Probably and some racism too - after all that was what was going on in the States - the military was a reflection of that. Over all however, in the late 60's into the early 70's military personnel regulations, command structure and discipline was a fairer deal for minorities than in civilian life. in august 1964 I was sent from CRE Crown at Leong Nok Tha to the airbase at Korat for minor Surgery, my driver was a maori in the NZ engineers, he was not allowed in the same billet area or to eat in the same part of the messhall,because of his colour, and most of the bars in downtown korat were segregated too, as we were leaving korat to return to unit a couple of USAAF Police stopped our vehicle and started giving freddy ahard time once again because of his colour, sadly they picked on the wrong bloke to get physical with ,we kept their armbands and nightsticks as souvenirs, about4 weeks later,there was a curious outbreak of large day glow Kiwi transfers appearing on korat based air craft and vehicles even the control tower got a couple

Again - this is my opinion based on my own personal observations and experiences - I don't claim it to be a universal truth - because I was looking at the world through blue eyes.

And?

Bottom line SF had little racial problem for the reasons cited above. When in the field on jungle patrol or defending an outpost we were not concerned with color of skin -- rather just "is he competent and can I count on him",. When off duty - down time was most often shared together in the clubs - we looked out for each other even then - making sure every guy got back to the hotel or back to base.

[klikster]

Did my week of R&R in Bangkok, March or April of '65 (can't remember). No photos but a great few days.

Contrary to some things I have read here .. taxis had meters. Taxi drivers had to wear hats/caps. Bangkok was heaven compared to anything in 'Nam -- um -- well, there was this one quite attractive Viet/French girl in Nha Trang.

Only did a 6 mo TDY tour at a camp along the Cambodian Border. (Late '64 - early '65)

[klikster]

Vietnam was the free world (the US) v the Communists if I recall correctly.

Interested to hear from any veterans if it made any difference whether your fellow GI was black or white when you had the VC on your arse?

It would have made a helluva difference to me if I had my 'druthers'. "Willy" was the only black and arguably one of the best 2 on our team. Yeah, Willy would have been my pick!

[IMA_FARANG]

Did my week of R&R in Bangkok, March or April of '65 (can't remember). No photos but a great few days.

Contrary to some things I have read here .. taxis had meters. Taxi drivers had to wear hats/caps. Bangkok was heaven compared to anything in 'Nam -- um -- well, there was this one quite attractive Viet/French girl in Nha Trang.

Only did a 6 mo TDY tour at a camp along the Cambodian Border. (Late '64 - early '65)

----------------------

I spent my first year in Vietnam working in the in country R&R center of Vung Tau, Vietnam.

Had a full time pass and was able to live in Vung Tau downtown as "permanent party"

There was two streets .... bars lined up next to each other.... 20 to 30 girls at least in each bar.

Must have been 60 bars on those two streets filled with Vietnamese women between 18 and 20 something in age.

I was 19 years old, single, and free.

Why would I ever waste my time going from there to Bangkok for R&R?

It was all there in Vung Tau .... no need for Thailand.

That was my first year in Vietnam.

I thought I had died and gone to paradise.

[DogNo1]

Hi Blether. What's with the right hand motion of the marching troops? I've never seen that before!

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[klikster]

Did my week of R&R in Bangkok, March or April of '65 (can't remember). No photos but a great few days.

Contrary to some things I have read here .. taxis had meters. Taxi drivers had to wear hats/caps. Bangkok was heaven compared to anything in 'Nam -- um -- well, there was this one quite attractive Viet/French girl in Nha Trang.

Only did a 6 mo TDY tour at a camp along the Cambodian Border. (Late '64 - early '65)

----------------------

I spent my first year in Vietnam working in the in country R&R center of Vung Tau, Vietnam.

Had a full time pass and was able to live in Vung Tau downtown as "permanent party"

There was two streets .... bars lined up next to each other.... 20 to 30 girls at least in each bar.

Must have been 60 bars on those two streets filled with Vietnamese women between 18 and 20 something in age.

I was 19 years old, single, and free.

Why would I ever waste my time going from there to Bangkok for R&R?

It was all there in Vung Tau .... no need for Thailand.

That was my first year in Vietnam.

I thought I had died and gone to paradise.

As I recall, our options for R&R were Bangkok and Hong Kong -- maybe Nha Trang and Saigon as well -- not sure.

We took R&R in pairs. The other team member wanted to go to Bangkok.

Was that R&R Center alive and well in early '65?

[chiang mai]

Keep an eye on the History Channel, it's been showing the Secret War this week with lots of great information and footage.

[IMA_FARANG]

As I recall, our options for R&R were Bangkok and Hong Kong -- maybe Nha Trang and Saigon as well -- not sure.

---------------

There were two types of R&R available for active duty forces in Vietnam.

One was an "out-of-country" R&R which is what you're referring to.

That's what many vets remember. There were a number of places you could go, some were added later than others and may not have been available in 1965.

The other type of R&R was an "in-country" R&R which was given to front-line combat troops.

There were two "in-country" R&R sites in Vietnam.

One was in Vung Tau, just south of Saigon and the other was in Nha Tramg.

I don't know exactly when the in-country R&R site was started but it was definitely in full swing in July 1966 when I arrived in Vietnam and was sent to a communications site in Vung Tau as "permanent party" there.

I was there from July 1966 to July 1967.

The Aussies also took R&R there as did many other country troops sent to Vietnam from such countries as Korea and even Thailand.

As I said I was not yet 20 years old when I arrived there .... and I really enjoyed my first year in Vietnam.

I tried to extend for another year, but they denied my extension request.

I went back to Vietnam for a 2nd year..... but they wouldn't send me back to Vung Tau. Instead they sent me to Saigon .... or rather to a site called Phu Lam which was just outside Saigon.

I was lucky twice in my first two tours in Vietnam as I got good assignments both times.

Note: I was sent to Vietnam 5 times between 1966 and 1971 when I got out of the army.

[klikster]

As I recall, our options for R&R were Bangkok and Hong Kong -- maybe Nha Trang and Saigon as well -- not sure.

---------------

There were two types of R&R available for active duty forces in Vietnam.

One was an "out-of-country" R&R which is what you're referring to.

That's what many vets remember. There were a number of places you could go, some were added later than others and may not have been available in 1965.

That my be why I "wasted my time going to Thailand".

[DogNo1]

TheBlether: I am asking about video of the troops marching for the Thai King that you posted on 13-08-02 23:57:56. I was amazed to see their baby-blue and lime-green uniforms and intrigued by the peculiar hand movement of all of the marching troops. They swung their right arms forward as their left feet hit the ground and then swung their right arms sharply behind them when their right feet hit the ground. I've never seen that style of marching before.

[SinglePot]

You still up there Blether?

I got GI's down here shooting....the breeze.

[theblether]

I'm in Hat Yai visiting weegee, I think tomorrow we are heading out to see some the defensive positions erected by the army here in connection with the troubles down here. I'd like to get a feel for what's happening in this area.

@Dogno1, I intend to post several more clips and links next week, I'll see if I can find more of that marching style and an explanation for it.

[SinglePot]

Ever thought of running for president TB?

[theblether]

Ever thought of running for president TB?

I talk too much.

[SinglePot]

Ever thought of running for president TB?

I talk too much.

500 word post on your solution to the troubles in Southern Thailand appreciated.

In your own time.

[harrry]

Ever thought of running for president TB?

I talk too much.

500 word post on your solution to the troubles in Southern Thailand appreciated.

In your own time.

As long as they do not give you an oportunity to sit in a place the bomb detector says is safe.

[SinglePot]

Ever thought of running for president TB?

I talk too much.

500 word post on your solution to the troubles in Southern Thailand appreciated.

In your own time.

As long as they do not give you an oportunity to sit in a place the bomb detector says is safe.

Yep. Could end up in a wheelchair TB. If you are lucky.

Take care.

[DogNo1]

Theblether : Thanks. I'm looking forward to the clips and the explanation. BTW, the clip of the ANZACS Battle of Long Tan was great!

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[DogNo1]

I bought the book "Timeline: The Battle for Skyline Ridge.". It's not a book really. It's written in the form of terse military reports. Just facts with no descriptive prose to speak of so it's very dull reading. This is just a warning to others who might expect to get a good read out of it. The author badly needed a good rewriter.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[StasD]

Thailand is and was very wise;supported japanise in WW2, supported usa in war with Vietnam, no any harm, only bonuses. next time it will support China, i know now

[itsadryheat]

I landed at Udorn Royal Thai Airbase in dec of 1975. I was 20.

I had a friend there already so I moved downtown the next day.

Let's just say we partied a lot and then we partied some more.

I gave up on the devil weed and the crown royal, but still smile when I think of that amazing thai stick.

A year later the American part of the base was in full shut down mode. Only skeleton crews were left.

It got a bit weird with many Thais happy we were leaving and many others being upset that all the money we put into the economy was going away.

I've got some pictures somewhere.

I loved the area and did a lot of site seeing on my trusty 10 speed and we took a trip to Chiang Mai for a couple weeks.

I've traveled to a few places but Thailand has always been the one place I really wanted to go back to. I loved the experience. 38 years later, i'm almost on my way back for a year or 3. I got busy.

I didn't realize Udorn had a large CIA contingent until years later when I got online. That certainly explains a few things.

I was stationed close to the runway and the F-4s would leave in bunches of 3 to 5 jets at a time. One right after the other. Man was that loud. All conversations would come to a halt for a bit.

Hitting the ho chi minh trial.

Edited September 19, 2013 by itsadryheat

[Thanyaburi Mac]

I bought the book "Timeline: The Battle for Skyline Ridge.". It's not a book really. It's written in the form of terse military reports. Just facts with no descriptive prose to speak of so it's very dull reading. This is just a warning to others who might expect to get a good read out of it. The author badly needed a good rewriter.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Dog

I kinda liked it, I know a few of the participants, and was just up to Long Tieng in January looking at Skyline Ridge, it does look a bit "spooky" and can imagine the fighting that went on there. Things are pretty quiet there these days.

Mac

[klikster]

Good reads about B-52 (Delta).

I knew Coffey and Siugz-da from the 1st Group. Their heroics a couple of years later in the A Shua Valley are documented here http://www.projectdelta.net/sofmag3_pg4.htm

Siugz-da was a heckuva volleyball player as well.

[chiang mai]

Good reads about B-52 (Delta).

I knew Coffey and Siugz-da from the 1st Group. Their heroics a couple of years later in the A Shua Valley are documented here http://www.projectdelta.net/sofmag3_pg4.htm

Siugz-da was a heckuva volleyball player as well.

I read the article in the link you posted, it made my hair stand on end!

[Nignoy]

We will be back in Vungtau from the 3rd of march next year, anybody fancy a few days fishing and the odd cold beer drop me a line

[khwaibah]

I have seriously enjoyed reading this thread with admiration of those that served. Just ran across the following and thought of no better place to share.

With military short on funds, two airmen get private flyover during burial

By Greg Seaby, CNN

September 24, 2013 -- Updated 0827 GMT (1627 HKT)

STORY HIGHLIGHTS

• James Sizemore and Howard Andre Jr. were shot down over Laos in 1969
• The remains of the majors weren't discovered until April
• The nonprofit Warrior Aviation provided the private flyover at Arlington

(CNN) -- Two U.S. Air Force officers who died in a crash in Laos in 1969 were laid to rest Monday at Arlington National Cemetery and honored with a final flyover -- but not one provided by the U.S. military.

Citing budget concerns, the Air Force denied a request to honor the fallen service members with a military flyover. That prompted a private air squadron to step in.

"Unfortunately, the government hasn't been able to supply flyovers for these gentlemen that have served and gave up the greatest sacrifice they could, so all of us have decided to go ahead and fulfill the mission," said Calvin Peacock, a volunteer with nonprofit groupWarrior Aviation.

Maj. James Sizemore of Lawrenceville, Illinois, and Maj. Howard Andre Jr. of Memphis, Tennessee, were shot down in their A-26A Invader aircraft during a reconnaissance mission over Laos during the Vietnam War, according to the Defense Department. The pilots were considered killed in action.

The crash site was discovered in 1993, but the pilots' remains were not discovered until April. Military scientists then matched the remains with the dental records of Sizemore, solving the 44-year-old mystery and bringing closure to the families.

It was a true honor to be a part of the group that is allowed to do this.
Larry Kelly, Warrior Aviation volunteer

A flyover is a military ceremonial ritual reserved for the most esteemed of fallen service members. The Department of Defense refused a military flyover for Sizemore and Andre because of the forced budget cuts known as sequestration.

The private squadron consisted of a B-25, two P-51s, four L-39 jets and an A-26 Invader, the same type of plane Sizemore and Andre flew. The Warrior Aviation organization is comprised of volunteers, most of whom are veterans.

"People like myself, the Vietnam generation, we know what sacrifice these guys made. It was a true honor to be a part of the group that is allowed to do this. When they asked me to do this, I said, 'Absolutely, it would be a honor, '" said Warrior Aviation volunteer Larry Kelly.

The Defense Department records indicate that more than 1,640 American military personnel are still unaccounted for from the Vietnam War.

CNN's Paul Courson contributed to this report.