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Thailand and the Vietnam War

theblether
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chiang mai Star Member

chiang mai

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Very briefly back to the insurgents, some trivia:

My barber is Taiwanese and he got his Thai ID card by serving in one of two regiments in the Thai army that are made up exclusively of Chinese, he tells me they are used to do a lot of the dirty work and are in active service currently in the South and previously, during the 1970's and early 1980's, were used to fight communist groups in the North and North East.

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simple1 Star Member

simple1

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Posted (edited)

Very briefly back to the insurgents, some trivia:

My barber is Taiwanese and he got his Thai ID card by serving in one of two regiments in the Thai army that are made up exclusively of Chinese, he tells me they are used to do a lot of the dirty work and are in active service currently in the South and previously, during the 1970's and early 1980's, were used to fight communist groups in the North and North East.

Looks like your barber was correct & covered in detail at URL below under the heading "Under Thai Military Control". I don't know about being transferred to the deep South as I believe the "dirty work" is mainly by Thais from Issan/N.E. Thailand - Thahan Phran (Rangers) sometimes referred to as black shirt warriors

http://www.gt-rider.com/tour-options/chiang-rai/doi-mae-salong-information/doi-mae-salong-history

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KevinB Senior Member

KevinB

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Some of the videos posted are a real blast from the past - I was a High School / University student in the period 1963 - 1972 and what I remember the most (from my loc in Africa) was the newsreel footage of the War and the growing opposition to the war. Back in 1965 Rhodesia Unilaterally Declared Independence from it's so called colonial master Britain and argued it was to defend itself against the advance of Communism. The war in Central and Southern Africa dragged on past the 1980 settlement and Independence in Zimbabwe and like the war in SE Asia left plenty of damage and graves in the region - Mozambique, Namibia and Angola. Well history has moved on and like most conflicts there are those that fought and those that lost loved ones and comrades wondering if it was all really worth it.

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theblether Star Member

theblether

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Yes, was it really all worth it? I think it was, what would have happened if the communists had been allowed to pour unopposed throughout SE Asia? We would have been facing a gigantic communist bloc in the East, along with the communist bloc in Europe. I don't think that would have been a positive outcome.

I also remember the proxy war fought in Africa as well, at that time Africa was a relatively forgotten continent, an afterthought, as we Europeans were too busy looking over the Iron Curtain and the US was engaged in Asia.

A lot of this can be traced back to the Yalta Conference in February 45, where Roosevelt made a major mistake by giving Stalin any credence. To be fair to Roosevelt he was at the end of his days, and we can't second guess his health status or state of mind. I'd like to think that a fully fit Roosevelt would have seen through these lies and deceits and stood firm. Here's a photo for you.

742px-Yalta_summit_1945_with_Churchill%2

Soon Roosevelt would be dead, Churchill sidelined, and Stalin would run riot. This conference was a pivotal point in 20th Century history.

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theblether Star Member

theblether

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I take your point SP, I was responding to KevinB and his question about whether it was worth it. The communist expansion was a real and present danger back in those days, and it wouldn't have been an impossibility that they would have dominated SE Asia, in fact possibly captured Thailand, if it hadn't been for the marker put down by the US and allies in Vietnam.

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harrry Star Member

harrry

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I take your point SP, I was responding to KevinB and his question about whether it was worth it. The communist expansion was a real and present danger back in those days, and it wouldn't have been an impossibility that they would have dominated SE Asia, in fact possibly captured Thailand, if it hadn't been for the marker put down by the US and allies in Vietnam.

While I fully support the efforts the troops of all countries put in here ( I did my recruit training with at least 3 of the people in one of those videos) I do think the premise that they were here for was wrong. It may be more respectful to them to leave the politics out of this thread,

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SinglePot Gold Member

SinglePot

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Historians write about history.

Other people make history.

Sometimes people get jealous of people who make history.

Still can't work out this thing of planes leaving Thailand with ammo but unable to return and therefore dumping on Laos.

One of my first experiences of Thailand ( in the last decade I would add) was a bar run by a veteran called John on the road coming out of Kamala as you go towards Patong. He had a Thai wife. Never got a proper chance to talk to him unfortunately but his girls were pretty.

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theblether Star Member

theblether

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President Johnston on his Asian Odyssey in 1966.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6frLmliG0s

Timings, 2.00 Samoa, 11.00 Australia, 19.20 The Manila Conference, The Summit includes Thailand, 26.55 Vietnam, 29.00 Thailand, ( very interesting ) 36.20 Malaysia,

42.20 South Korea, 44.14 LBJ speech, "To an American, the free soil of Korea is hallowed ground"

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theblether Star Member

theblether

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The topic is about Thailand and the Vietnam War, I am not prepared to go into a debate about the rights and wrongs of the war. However to not include some background in regards to the politicians that pursued the war would be wrong.

I regard that earlier clip of RFK talking to LBJ as particularly important, to know that RFK was saying that the war could not be won militarily in 1964 is relevant. To hear LBJ list his opponents equally so. It was politicians that ordered their men into war.

There are parts of the previous video I just posted ( The Asian Odyssey ) that I found to be very poignant and quite frankly emotional. LBJ is the keystone to that video and the decision to go to war, he cannot be ignored. I for one have already found this thread to be highly educational, and before it's finished I expect it to be more so.

It would be impossible to address this subject without treading on someone's toes, I'm aware of that already. I apologize in advance for doing so, however the topic will cover many facets of that period, and over the course of many years. The politics have played a relatively minor role so far and I expect that to continue.

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SMSinBangkok Senior Member

SMSinBangkok

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Fascinating thread. I am from Norway and "only" 47 years old so this topic is not exactly close to home. Nevertheless I was reading this thread and watching linked videos until 3am this morning... :-)

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

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Tywais Star Member

Tywais

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Were planes leaving Thailand able to carry live munitions? I presume not. I'm struggling with the logistics.

Oddly yes they were, presumably the munitions were either brought into the country in the first place by ship or were purchased in Thailand, dunno.

Munitions for Utapao were brought in by ship via the deep water port at Sattihip then trucked over to the base and put in bunkers. The below photo is from my office window in 1968 at Utapao. There were nearly daily sorties and seen hundreds of B-52's taking off fully loaded and coming back empty.

Probably some of us had that moment where one faces our own mortality. My 1st time was at Tan Son Nhut, Vietnam. Arrived shortly after the Tet offensive and 3 days after arriving we were under mortar attack. I was 20 at the time. The 2nd time was at Utapao itself. A stockpile of 750 pound bombs went off simultaneously. I had a house a few kilometers off the base. Started off while I was in the shower and heard small explosions in the distance. Wrapped a sarong around me and went outside where the locals were wondering what was going on. Could hear more explosions and sounded like mortar fire stepping through the jungle. Shortly a massive fireball started climbing in the distance, high enough I had to crane my neck up to follow it. That point I was saying to myself 'that's it'. It looked like a nuclear cloud. Several seconds later, the blast wave hit nearly knocking me off my feet and shattered the windows and cracked the concrete columns to the house.

The locals were panicking and looking to me for what to do. I told them to get into the ditches for cover and I rushed getting dressed and jumped into a baht bus back to the base. Yes, straight back to where the chaos started - just instinct it seems. Base was on red alert and all other bases in Thailand went on yellow alert, front gate packed with military coming back in. One of those events in your life that is like a photograph in your mind.

Utapao.jpg

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jambco984 Silver Member

jambco984

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A particularly fascinating video. 

Too much talk of umbrellas and European appreciation of the said umbrellas by the Thai foreign minister (Towards the end of the video).

:D

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SinglePot Gold Member

SinglePot

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Were planes leaving Thailand able to carry live munitions? I presume not. I'm struggling with the logistics.

Oddly yes they were, presumably the munitions were either brought into the country in the first place by ship or were purchased in Thailand, dunno.

Munitions for Utapao were brought in by ship via the deep water port at Sattihip then trucked over to the base and put in bunkers. The below photo is from my office window in 1968 at Utapao. There were nearly daily sorties and seen hundreds of B-52's taking off fully loaded and coming back empty.

Probably some of us had that moment where one faces our own mortality. My 1st time was at Tan Son Nhut, Vietnam. Arrived shortly after the Tet offensive and 3 days after arriving we were under mortar attack. I was 20 at the time. The 2nd time was at Utapao itself. A stockpile of 750 pound bombs went off simultaneously. I had a house a few kilometers off the base. Started off while I was in the shower and heard small explosions in the distance. Wrapped a sarong around me and went outside where the locals were wondering what was going on. Could hear more explosions and sounded like mortar fire stepping through the jungle. Shortly a massive fireball started climbing in the distance, high enough I had to crane my neck up to follow it. That point I was saying to myself 'that's it'. It looked like a nuclear cloud. Several seconds later, the blast wave hit nearly knocking me off my feet and shattered the windows and cracked the concrete columns to the house.

The locals were panicking and looking to me for what to do. I told them to get into the ditches for cover and I rushed getting dressed and jumped into a baht bus back to the base. Yes, straight back to where the chaos started - just instinct it seems. Base was on red alert and all other bases in Thailand went on yellow alert, front gate packed with military coming back in. One of those events in your life that is like a photograph in your mind.

Utapao.jpg

Thanks for sharing that Tywais.

Me and plenty of others would love to hear more from the people involved at that time of SE Asia history, I am sure.

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