State forces blamed for murder of six at temple site in 2010 protest

[dcutman]

It's odd that those who consistently insist that the courts should be respected start quibbling and disputing the verdict when it is uncomfortable for them.

In this instance the scope was limited to the Wat Pathum incident.It was found beyond any reasonable doubt the unarmed civilians there were murdered by the army.There were no weapons there and no Men in Black.The politicians responsible lied consistently about this.

I would agree with what you call any "reasonable doubt" if anywhere in this article the court had in its possession and had ballistics results/tests from those weapons. Unless you have some other news source with this information that the rest of dont have have, you should supply that link. I for one have some doubt, as you should have, without this evidence.

[rubl]

It's odd that those who consistently insist that the courts should be respected start quibbling and disputing the verdict when it is uncomfortable for them.

In this instance the scope was limited to the Wat Pathum incident.It was found beyond any reasonable doubt the unarmed civilians there were murdered by the army.There were no weapons there and no Men in Black.The politicians responsible lied consistently about this.

The interesting part is the very fact that that same day the 'unknown militants' dropped grenades on approaching military and the odd reporter. Somehow that suggests that 'unknowns' were present even if no one saw them. Puzzling really.

[Rimmer]

Inflammatory troll post removed

[jayboy]

It's odd that those who consistently insist that the courts should be respected start quibbling and disputing the verdict when it is uncomfortable for them.

In this instance the scope was limited to the Wat Pathum incident.It was found beyond any reasonable doubt the unarmed civilians there were murdered by the army.There were no weapons there and no Men in Black.The politicians responsible lied consistently about this.

I would agree with what you call any "reasonable doubt" if anywhere in this article the court had in its possession and had ballistics results/tests from those weapons. Unless you have some other news source with this information that the rest of dont have have, you should supply that link. I for one have some doubt, as you should have, without this evidence.

Link supplied.See above.

[dcutman]

It's odd that those who consistently insist that the courts should be respected start quibbling and disputing the verdict when it is uncomfortable for them.

In this instance the scope was limited to the Wat Pathum incident.It was found beyond any reasonable doubt the unarmed civilians there were murdered by the army.There were no weapons there and no Men in Black.The politicians responsible lied consistently about this.

I would agree with what you call any "reasonable doubt" if anywhere in this article the court had in its possession and had ballistics results/tests from those weapons. Unless you have some other news source with this information that the rest of dont have have, you should supply that link. I for one have some doubt, as you should have, without this evidence.

Link supplied.See above.

Link above say nothing about ballistics test on weapons from the Thai Army.

[Baerboxer]

No men in black involved? What a surprise

I look forward to read the (renewed) theories of the most obsessed anti-government TV members about this matter

The court was bought Thaksin himself?

The judges were pressured by red shirts?

The men in black stole military uniforms before to shoot their own people?

A secret red underground service photoshopped all pictures taken that day and made the men in black disappear from the court's evidences?

I am curious to read, really. There is a lot of creativity among TV members.

On my side I am among the ones who would like AV and Suthep take responsibility for this massacre.

Reconciliation for all... Except these two.

And, of course amnesty for the person who orchestrated and funded it all. Some would say, even provoked the violence in order to further his own political designs.

No responsibility for him or his stooges who were urging arson and violence.

Might as well whitewash his criminal conviction and outstanding criminal charges too. After all, good for reconciliation.

The only way to achieve reconciliation is for justice and the rule of law to prevail. What chance of that with a government that won't even answer questions about the illegal issuing of a passport to a convicted fugitive and a police force that choose which laws they want to enforce and against whom.

AV and Suthep are at least willing to stand trial - unlike others.

[Pi Sek]

It's odd that those who consistently insist that the courts should be respected start quibbling and disputing the verdict when it is uncomfortable for them.

In this instance the scope was limited to the Wat Pathum incident.It was found beyond any reasonable doubt the unarmed civilians there were murdered by the army.There were no weapons there and no Men in Black.The politicians responsible lied consistently about this.

I have to say I was one who suspected the 6 deaths were army shooting at MiB inside the temple. The judgement clearly says "there were no MiB there" so I will eat my hat. Your assertions are entirely correct.

[kimamey]

Truth will out...................

Some on here will not accept it, but there it is, medics shot in cold blood by the authorities.

Let's see how the Courts take this further, but it cannot be a surprise to anyone, why there is such deep division in the country.

Perhaps you should define 'authorities'

[kimamey]

No men in black involved? What a surprise

I look forward to read the (renewed) theories of the most obsessed anti-government TV members about this matter

The court was bought Thaksin himself?

The judges were pressured by red shirts?

The men in black stole military uniforms before to shoot their own people?

A secret red underground service photoshopped all pictures taken that day and made the men in black disappear from the court's evidences?

I am curious to read, really. There is a lot of creativity among TV members.

On my side I am among the ones who would like AV and Suthep take responsibility for this massacre.

Reconciliation for all... Except these two.

Abhisit and Suthep would be responsible if the shots were fired by a soldier who was acting within the Rules of Engagement they were given. I would think it unlikely that they were within those rules although I haven't look closely at this yet.

If they did act outside the ROE then they should obviously be charged and brought before a court. Will the government allow this? I think it's unlikely.

I assume we will be getting a similar investigation into the responsibility of the current PM (Yingluck) for this.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/657684-thai-police-shootout-with-drug-dealer-kills-university-student/

I'm not suggesting she should face murder charges for this but if all those who believe Abhisit and Suthep are murderers due to their being in charge in 2010 are correct then logically the current PM should face the same investigation.

Edited August 6, 2013 by kimamey

[whybother]

The court said the six victims were not believed to be involved in arms possession as the autopsy did not find gunshot residue on their fingers.

I hope the courts used better reasoning than "the victims didn't have guns, so the army must have done it".

[Emptyset]

It's odd that those who consistently insist that the courts should be respected start quibbling and disputing the verdict when it is uncomfortable for them.

In this instance the scope was limited to the Wat Pathum incident.It was found beyond any reasonable doubt the unarmed civilians there were murdered by the army.There were no weapons there and no Men in Black.The politicians responsible lied consistently about this.

Also worth noting that the DSI investigation was carried out under the Abhisit government when Tharit was still the Democrat's man. Perhaps despite that, at least according to the leaked documents (leaked back in Dec 2010 IIRC), they seemed to have investigated it impartially and had gathered pretty solid evidence that the military were at fault for the deaths. That the soldiers were responsible was always the most plausible scenario though; ever since the initial reports came in from foreign journalists that were trapped in Wat, soon followed by the video of troops on the Skytrain track. I think one of the journalists involved commented at one point that he thought it'd have been very difficult for the MiB to have been present and firing at troops without them noticing anything.

[tingtongteesood]

First off, it wasn't murder, more sensationalist crap, they were unfortunate casualties of a war started by the PT thugs. And as I seem to recall a large cache of weapons was found inside the temple, so, the soldiers were probably shot at by someone there but in all the chaos the wrong people got shot by accident. I wish the truth would come out and we could end all this drivel !

[whybother]

First off, it wasn't murder, more sensationalist crap, they were unfortunate casualties of a war started by the PT thugs. And as I seem to recall a large cache of weapons was found inside the temple, so, the soldiers were probably shot at by someone there but in all the chaos the wrong people got shot by accident. I wish the truth would come out and we could end all this drivel !

The investigation indicated that there were no weapons found inside the temple. (see Jayboy's Khaosod link).

[gerry1011]

No men in black involved? What a surprise

I look forward to read the (renewed) theories of the most obsessed anti-government TV members about this matter

The court was bought Thaksin himself?

The judges were pressured by red shirts?

The men in black stole military uniforms before to shoot their own people?

A secret red underground service photoshopped all pictures taken that day and made the men in black disappear from the court's evidences?

I am curious to read, really. There is a lot of creativity among TV members.

On my side I am among the ones who would like AV and Suthep take responsibility for this massacre.

Reconciliation for all... Except these two.

And, of course amnesty for the person who orchestrated and funded it all. Some would say, even provoked the violence in order to further his own political designs.

No responsibility for him or his stooges who were urging arson and violence.

Might as well whitewash his criminal conviction and outstanding criminal charges too. After all, good for reconciliation.

The only way to achieve reconciliation is for justice and the rule of law to prevail. What chance of that with a government that won't even answer questions about the illegal issuing of a passport to a convicted fugitive and a police force that choose which laws they want to enforce and against whom.

AV and Suthep are at least willing to stand trial - unlike others.

Yes sure. That will be perfect.

Amnesty for everyone, including Thaksin, of course. And since AV and Suthep are willing to stand trial, up to them. It's even better. Let's have them condemned, then they are out of the way for a while.

Everybody happy in Thailand (apart from a few irreductibles on this forum, as well as the last yellows left barking here and there), both AV and Suthep in prison, and finally this country can start to move on

Very good plan.

The downside of a true reconciliation is that TV members will not be able to argue (for nothing) with eachother anymore... That is bad news

[monkeycountry]

First off, it wasn't murder, more sensationalist crap, they were unfortunate casualties of a war started by the PT thugs. And as I seem to recall a large cache of weapons was found inside the temple, so, the soldiers were probably shot at by someone there but in all the chaos the wrong people got shot by accident. I wish the truth would come out and we could end all this drivel !

The investigation indicated that there were no weapons found inside the temple. (see Jayboy's Khaosod link).

Google has pictures of a large pile of machine guns, bullets etc. on one of the red shirt stages, next to red shirt leaders speaking. Yet when the army moved in, they did not find those weapons on the stage. Does that then indicate the weapons were never there? Or is it more likely someone took the weapons with them before the army moved in?

The "evidence" that there were no men in black at the temple is that the various statements about men in black are "conflicting". Does that indicate that if 2 or more witnesses to a crime give conflicting statements, then the crime actually never happened?

[northernjohn]

It's odd that those who consistently insist that the courts should be respected start quibbling and disputing the verdict when it is uncomfortable for them.

In this instance the scope was limited to the Wat Pathum incident.It was found beyond any reasonable doubt the unarmed civilians there were murdered by the army.There were no weapons there and no Men in Black.The politicians responsible lied consistently about this.

I would agree with what you call any "reasonable doubt" if anywhere in this article the court had in its possession and had ballistics results/tests from those weapons. Unless you have some other news source with this information that the rest of dont have have, you should supply that link. I for one have some doubt, as you should have, without this evidence.

Link supplied.See above.

I read the article it was just a series of statements with no proof. The videos were shot by the police. Obviously we all know who they work for. There was no verification that the videos were real just an assumption.

The court based part of it's decision that they were killed by army issued bullets. They completely ignored the proven fact that the red and black shirts were also in possession of the same guns. What really happened we will never know.

For all we know it could have been men in black shirts wearing their regular uniforms up on the sky train rails. The only thing the court proved was that they were shot from above.

[webfact]

2010 POLITICAL VIOLENCE
Military gunmen shot 6 unarmed people dead in Wat Pathum Wanaram: court
Anuphan Chantana,
Piyanut Tumnukasetchai
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Unidentified military sharpshooters stationed on Skytrain tracks killed five unarmed people at Pathum Wanaram Temple during the dispersal of a pro-Thaksin Shinawatra red-shirt rally on May 19, 2010, the Southern Bangkok Criminal Court ruled yesterday.

Another unarmed victim at the temple was shot dead by ground forces, the court said.

According to the inquest, Suwan Sriraksa, 30, a farmer; Mongkol Khemthong, 36, a rescue worker; Rop Suksathit, 66, a hired driver; Kamolket Akkahad, 25, a volunteer nurse; and Akkharadej Khankaew, 22, a hired hand, were killed by high-velocity .223 calibre or 5.56mm bullets fired by soldiers from the Army's Third Special Warfare Regiment who belonged to an assault battalion based at Fort Erawan in Lop Buri. The soldiers were on the elevated railroad during the end stage of the crackdown.

Army spokesman Col Winthai Suwaree said the inquest was not a conviction, and evidence, including results of gun residue tests, would be presented in a following prosecution. He said Army weapons taken by red shirts were found inside the compound. No soldiers or police had arrived at the temple at the time the six died.

Atthachai Chumchan, 28, a law school graduate, was shot by .223 calibre or 5.56mm bullets fired from a battalion of the 31st Infantry Regiment, another unit that was deployed on Rama I Road.

The troops were conducting peacekeeping and crowd-control operations from the Skytrain viaduct and Rama I Road at the order of the Centre for Restoration of the Emergency Situation (CRES).

No "men in black" or armed assailants were present, no arms were found at the scene of the killings and no traces of gunpowder were found on the fingers of the victims, the court said.

Payao, the mother of Kamolket, said she had full confidence in the court's findings in this case because of the details pointing out who shot the six people. "In an amnesty bill, we must go into detail that state officials who over-reacted must not be pardoned," she said.

Tarit Pengdith, head of the Department of Special Investigation, said that as the soldiers acted on the order of CRES, they were exempt from punishment under Article 70 of the Criminal Code.

The DSI would file premeditated murder charges against former PM Abhisit Vejjajiva, now opposition leader, and then CRES director Suthep Thaugsuban for issuing the order to kill soldiers, Tarit said.


-- The Nation 2013-08-07

[sting123]

Many of the posters are too young to remenber what happened all around the world in 1968; and Bangkok is only a joke when compared with Paris in may/june 68. Still restrain was exerced on both side, and while numerous cars were burned, countless jaws broken, legs, arms shattered, there is officially no death neither from the police/army neither from the mob (unofficially there are 4 , but they were collateral damages, mean not directly involved in the events). That to make people here calm down, and take the Bkk events for what they are in reality ... ripples in a watr glass!

Another thought, without judging the actions (good or bad), I propose the posters here to read on wiki about the Isarn province, and the average salary there ... and then to compare with their spending during a week end in Bangkok ... .... ... do you got it? Those peoples were maybe misguided by a dangerous populistic politician (but I could say the same about G.W. Bush, couldn't I?) they were mostly driven by desperation. No hope, worst year after year they become poorer, loosing their land to the power that are (whatever that saying is covering).

I do understand many of us benefit from that situation, beer is cold and cheap, girls are hot, exotic and still cheaper than home; but is it any of you who is raising (or plan to do so, or did it in the past) who would bare easily the very thought to raise a girl and make her a bar girl in soi cowboy; or a boy to have him working a kathoey in Patpong?????????? Why do I ask?? Waht does it have to do with the question at hand? Simply because that is the very reason to the birth of the 'red shirt'; the lumpenproletariat is suffering too much, and so they went to the only one offering hope (even if it might, or might not be a misguided hope, I do not want to judge that here).

So it is easy from our armchair to squabble about who killed who and where; and climbing our hight horses about democracy and social media, it is indeed very easy and maybe it is the goal researched by some in power, to have us beign blind to the crucial points. I do believe it is important, more than anything else, to understand how so many people could have fall for such a crime (civil unrest) and throw away all that was their own culture of respect of the authorities ... Would it be possible they were all drugged? Or are they pathological morons? Or would it be possible they refused to became more and more poor, to breed girls to send them as sex workers to the capital, refuse to live without hope , with only a back breaking work (litterally) in front of them? Assuming the tree of liberty must regulary be given patriotic blood (Jefferson I believe), the true question is what made those people believe (for good or for bad reasons, that I do not judge) they were patriots?

Thanks for taking the tme to read my very poor english (I am not a native, anglo saxon native I mean; so my english is broken).

[gemini81]

Many of the posters are too young to remenber what happened all around the world in 1968; and Bangkok is only a joke when compared with Paris in may/june 68. Still restrain was exerced on both side, and while numerous cars were burned, countless jaws broken, legs, arms shattered, there is officially no death neither from the police/army neither from the mob (unofficially there are 4 , but they were collateral damages, mean not directly involved in the events). That to make people here calm down, and take the Bkk events for what they are in reality ... ripples in a watr glass!

Another thought, without judging the actions (good or bad), I propose the posters here to read on wiki about the Isarn province, and the average salary there ... and then to compare with their spending during a week end in Bangkok ... .... ... do you got it? Those peoples were maybe misguided by a dangerous populistic politician (but I could say the same about G.W. Bush, couldn't I?) they were mostly driven by desperation. No hope, worst year after year they become poorer, loosing their land to the power that are (whatever that saying is covering).

I do understand many of us benefit from that situation, beer is cold and cheap, girls are hot, exotic and still cheaper than home; but is it any of you who is raising (or plan to do so, or did it in the past) who would bare easily the very thought to raise a girl and make her a bar girl in soi cowboy; or a boy to have him working a kathoey in Patpong?????????? Why do I ask?? Waht does it have to do with the question at hand? Simply because that is the very reason to the birth of the 'red shirt'; the lumpenproletariat is suffering too much, and so they went to the only one offering hope (even if it might, or might not be a misguided hope, I do not want to judge that here).

So it is easy from our armchair to squabble about who killed who and where; and climbing our hight horses about democracy and social media, it is indeed very easy and maybe it is the goal researched by some in power, to have us beign blind to the crucial points. I do believe it is important, more than anything else, to understand how so many people could have fall for such a crime (civil unrest) and throw away all that was their own culture of respect of the authorities ... Would it be possible they were all drugged? Or are they pathological morons? Or would it be possible they refused to became more and more poor, to breed girls to send them as sex workers to the capital, refuse to live without hope , with only a back breaking work (litterally) in front of them? Assuming the tree of liberty must regulary be given patriotic blood (Jefferson I believe), the true question is what made those people believe (for good or for bad reasons, that I do not judge) they were patriots?

Thanks for taking the tme to read my very poor english (I am not a native, anglo saxon native I mean; so my english is broken).

You have good points and an interesting perspective. Not the usual TV know it all or the conspiracy theorist.

[pedro01]

First off, it wasn't murder, more sensationalist crap, they were unfortunate casualties of a war started by the PT thugs. And as I seem to recall a large cache of weapons was found inside the temple, so, the soldiers were probably shot at by someone there but in all the chaos the wrong people got shot by accident. I wish the truth would come out and we could end all this drivel !

I disagree - if it really was a bunch of soldiers on the BTS shooting at unarmed people taking refuge in the temple, then it was murder.

Of course, this does not mean that there were orders going down the chain of command to commit these murders. It does not mean that those in charge were complicit. It is still murder though.

[webfact]

UPDATE:
Army says probe on Wat Pathum murder in infant stage
By English News



BANGKOK, Aug 7 – A senior army officer has called on the public not to abruptly jump to conclusions in the case of six people killed at Wat Pathum Wanaram during the 2010 political upheaval in Bangkok.

The Bangkok South Criminal Court, based on an autopsy report, announced yesterday that the six people died from bullets shot from the direction of a temporary army outpost at the Siam Skytrain station over Rama I Road on May 19, 2010.

Army deputy spokesman Winthai Suvaree said the court’s statement was merely part of the inquiry process while trial has yet to begin.

In a trial, more elements of evidence will be required and the investigation results are contradicting and must be proofed further, he said.

It has yet to be verified if there were so-called 'men in black' in the temple and why the weapons seized by protesters were found on the temple grounds on May 20, 2010, he added.

He allayed concerns among army forces in light of the court’s latest announcement and said the army would do it best in pursuing the case under legal process.

The army has regularly asked for updates from the authorities concerning army personnel who were injured or killed in the political violence, he said. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2013-08-07

[MaxLee]

3 years later, State officials are getting accused, and arrest warrants issued,... and weeks later this issue is forgotten anyway,....

.... then several years later, State officials are getting accused, and arrest warrants issued,... and weeks later this issue is forgotten anyway,....

.... another several years later, State officials are getting accused, and arrest warrants issued,... and weeks later this issue is forgotten anyway,.... again and again

.... half the millenium is over, State officials are getting accused, and arrest warrants issued,... and weeks later this issue is forgotten anyway,.... surprised???

[kotsak]

Doesn't this guy look a bit too young to be a colonel?

[sungod]

Doesn't this guy look a bit too young to be a colonel?

Not if his dad is a general

[monkeycountry]

Tarit and DSI, the biggest joke in Thai police history - and that says alot :-)

I wonder how Tarit concludes that if a soldier shoots someone unlawfully, then the order to do so must have come from Abhisit? Thai logic again?? :-)

[wackysleet]

*deleted post edited out*

gemini81.

For a start, I would never support any so called political party in Thailand, tacit or otherwise simply because every party has it's own dirty washing.

Your comment about the past is the usual remark from the Abhisit lovers on TV but perhaps you have heard of the phrase "Cause and effect" and as far as his credible record goes he was not in power long enough to show his true worth which may have been good or bad and as far as giving examples, as Richard Nixon once said, the buck stops here and I have no intention of leaving myself open to possible charges by naming the person responsible for the great land giveaway that caused the Democrats to lose the election in the mid 90s or the great palm oil scam just a few yrs ago

My view on Thai politics is simple, prosecute each and every one of the wrongdoers with no exception, you on the other hand avoid the issue of corrupt/criminal Democrats but the reality is that it appears that politicians of all parties are two faced thieves.

[Phuket Stan]

I think it was Harry Truman who said "The Buck Stops Here".....he even had a plaque on his desk saying so

[hyperdimension]

Tarit Pengdith, head of the Department of Special Investigation, said that as the soldiers acted on the order of CRES, they were exempt from punishment under Article 70 of the Criminal Code.

So Tarit is assuming that no soldier acted against orders or rules of engagement. That's quite a blind assumption.