'Strong backing' for scrapping Thai coup-makers' immunity

[webfact]

'Strong backing' for scrapping coup-makers' immunity
Khanittha Thepphajorn
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Some 116 government MPs have agreed to sponsor a bill to repeal the immunity granted to coup-leaders and their appointees, Pheu Thai MP Weng Tojirakarn said yesterday.

The draft legislation would cancel the immunity granted to the 2006 coup-makers under Article 309 of the Constitution.

Weng said he intended the repeal of the immunity provision to serve as a bold gesture opposing the seizure of political power.

Opposition lawmakers are opposed to cancelling the immunity, begging the question as to whether they condone coups, he said.

He said he strongly believed that no politicians of any stripe are in favour of seizing power.

"Amending Article 309 would send a strong message rejecting power seizures," he said.

The ruling party is expected to debate the draft next week before deciding whether to push for parliamentary deliberation.


-- The Nation 2013-10-10

[Robby nz]

This from the man who wants to absolve himself from any responsibility for the deaths, injuries and destruction caused by the red shirts riots he helped lead.

But then he doesn't accept any responsibility for his actions so why the need for absolution?

[Roadman]

I do not see the need to oppose Weng's bill. It is not going to change anything in the future when the Shinawatra mafia finally over step the line that will need the thai Army to intervene again. Perhaps next time the Army will apply a more permanent solution to the Thakisn problem before it hands power again back to the corrupt pig trough feeders.

[arthurboy]

Reconcilliation, happy harmony, working together for the good of the country and the future?

Yeah, right.

Good luck with that, Thailand.

sent from my hippo phone

[NongKhaiKid]

You have to give PTP one thing, they are always consistent " we re always right and everybody else always wrong ".

Oh by the way we do want openness, transparency and reconcilliation so just do everything we say and all will be just fine.

[Valentine]

Just when it looks like they are getting the army on their side ............

[siampolee]

Interesting move and proposal indeed from that fine advocate of democracy, Pheu Thai M.P. Weng Tojirakarn .

Of course we can, nay must expect that the proposals will and must include the sponsors of the Red Shirts activities along with the assorted leaders of the assorted factions involved in the civil unrest that the Red Shirt movement conducted in Bangkok and certain other areas of Thailand.

To be a clear reconciliation process all sides must be involved in the judicial process mustn't they ?

Ooop's we forget we are talking about Thaksinspeak and Red Shirt style democracy aren't we !!!

[aussieinthailand]

This from the man who wants to absolve himself from any responsibility for the deaths, injuries and destruction caused by the red shirts riots he helped lead.

But then he doesn't accept any responsibility for his actions so why the need for absolution?

Ehhh, it was the yellow shirt backed military that is responsible for the coup, the murders, injuries, and destruction, because they had the bullets from sniper rifles and tanks,

and that is why they want to keep the immunity!!! no big surprise there huh.

I wonder just when people will stop trying to re-write history

[pedro01]

Good luck with this move PTP.

It's just Weng - this one won't be approved by TS - no chance. He'll just have to throw Weng another banana.

[fab4]

You have to give PTP one thing, they are always consistent " we re always right and everybody else always wrong ".

Oh by the way we do want openness, transparency and reconcilliation so just do everything we say and all will be just fine.

Does that mean that you agree with coups and the fact that the perpetrators can absolve themselves from all responsibility?

[h90]

This from the man who wants to absolve himself from any responsibility for the deaths, injuries and destruction caused by the red shirts riots he helped lead.

But then he doesn't accept any responsibility for his actions so why the need for absolution?

Ehhh, it was the yellow shirt backed military that is responsible for the coup, the murders, injuries, and destruction, because they had the bullets from sniper rifles and tanks,

and that is why they want to keep the immunity!!! no big surprise there huh.

I wonder just when people will stop trying to re-write history

And Weng tried the same with AK47 armed red shirts but failed.....Causing a lot deaths.

While no one died on the Army coup.

[Valentine]

You have to give PTP one thing, they are always consistent " we re always right and everybody else always wrong ".

Oh by the way we do want openness, transparency and reconcilliation so just do everything we say and all will be just fine.

Does that mean that you agree with coups and the fact that the perpetrators can absolve themselves from all responsibility?

Not saying I agree with it but it has been standard practice for the army to absolve themselves after every coup. The fact is Weng wants to have the military tried for the killings but does not seem to want the protesters to be charged with murder & mayhem.

[siampolee]

Ehhh, it was the yellow shirt backed military that is responsible for the coup, the murders, injuries, and destruction, because they had the bullets from sniper rifles and tanks,

and that is why they want to keep the immunity!!! no big surprise there huh.

Just check out via the public domain the exhortations to violence arson and general civil disorder (along with that very entertaining invasion of a hospital too) made by the assorted leaders of the assorted Red Shirt factions at the time of the civil disorder. You might do wel to review the rants and threats made by a renegade senior military officer too.

Also check out Thaksins offer and confirmation of 500 baht per day as his sponsorship for those actually the civil disorder, again you will see the I.D. cards being held by Thaksins followers as a security against default (i.e. cutting and running) by the paid for 500 baht per day protesters.

All those incriminating clips are still freely available on the public domain.

Thaksin and his clan and their brown nosing acolytes are the culprits who wish to rewrite history so as they can escape the consequences of their treasonable acts. No doubt if they are brought to trial we shall hear yet again that classic infamous trite Nuremberg defense. '' i was only acting on orders from a higher level."

Indeed there are non so blind or so deaf as those who do not wish to see or hear the truth

[aussieinthailand]

This from the man who wants to absolve himself from any responsibility for the deaths, injuries and destruction caused by the red shirts riots he helped lead.

But then he doesn't accept any responsibility for his actions so why the need for absolution?

Ehhh, it was the yellow shirt backed military that is responsible for the coup, the murders, injuries, and destruction, because they had the bullets from sniper rifles and tanks,

and that is why they want to keep the immunity!!! no big surprise there huh.

I wonder just when people will stop trying to re-write history

And Weng tried the same with AK47 armed red shirts but failed.....Causing a lot deaths.

While no one died on the Army coup.

OOHHH really you think??? try a little history lesson, October 6th 1976,

[siampolee]

fab4 post # 10

Does that mean that you agree with coups and the fact that the perpetrators can absolve themselves from all responsibility?

Methinks that you are unable or unwilling to appreciate the irony of that comment or instead of irony we could say sarcasm.

[siampolee]

OOHHH really you think??? try a little history lesson, October 6th 1976,

No no

Thaksins deceased puppet Samak reiterated that no -one died as a result of military involvement in that incident.

Thaksins friends wer and still are indeed somewhat economical with the truth as wella s creative with facts as is Thaksin himself and his supporters are in fact truth be known they have never been acquainted with the truth it is an alien concept to them

[Valentine]

OOHHH really you think??? try a little history lesson, October 6th 1976,

No no

Thaksins deceased puppet Samak reiterated that no -one died as a result of military involvement in that incident.

Thaksins friends wer and still are indeed somewhat economical with the truth as wella s creative with facts as is Thaksin himself and his supporters are in fact truth be known they have never been acquainted with the truth it is an alien concept to them

I think Samak was interior minister at the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thammasat_University_massacre

Some images here https://www.google.co.th/search?q=thailand+student+uprising+1976&client=firefox-beta&hs=4UU&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=HzNWUru7McXPrQe6n4CQAg&ved=0CEIQsAQ&biw=1664&bih=817&dpr=1.15

Why doesn't Weng demand justice for these crimes & the 1992 deaths?

Edited October 10, 2013 by Valentine

[h90]

This from the man who wants to absolve himself from any responsibility for the deaths, injuries and destruction caused by the red shirts riots he helped lead.

But then he doesn't accept any responsibility for his actions so why the need for absolution?

Ehhh, it was the yellow shirt backed military that is responsible for the coup, the murders, injuries, and destruction, because they had the bullets from sniper rifles and tanks,

and that is why they want to keep the immunity!!! no big surprise there huh.

I wonder just when people will stop trying to re-write history

And Weng tried the same with AK47 armed red shirts but failed.....Causing a lot deaths.

While no one died on the Army coup.

OOHHH really you think??? try a little history lesson, October 6th 1976,

I doubt he meant this coup....

[fab4]

You have to give PTP one thing, they are always consistent " we re always right and everybody else always wrong ".

Oh by the way we do want openness, transparency and reconcilliation so just do everything we say and all will be just fine.

Does that mean that you agree with coups and the fact that the perpetrators can absolve themselves from all responsibility?

Not saying I agree with it but it has been standard practice for the army to absolve themselves after every coup. The fact is Weng wants to have the military tried for the killings but does not seem to want the protesters to be charged with murder & mayhem.

I don't think you'll find that Weng and others will have any problem with anyone being charged with "murder and mayhem" if sufficient evidence has been brought and proved to be true.

However, the Coup of 2006 and its associated self granted amnesty is the topic, not the events of 2010.

Edited October 10, 2013 by fab4

[FarangTalk]

This from the man who wants to absolve himself from any responsibility for the deaths, injuries and destruction caused by the red shirts riots he helped lead.

But then he doesn't accept any responsibility for his actions so why the need for absolution?

If there was no coup, there would have been no red shirts.

If there were no yellow shirts, there would have been no coup.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

This topic is not able to be discussed properly anyway due to forum rules and Thai laws so the discussion is baseless and thus directionless when we cannot even hint at or acknowledge some of the true reasons behind it.

The only way forward for Thailand is there is no way forward... yet, but it seems to me if that they are unable to take responsibility for the simplest of mistakes or actions in everyday life, facing the consequences like adults, then resolution on this current situation is either impossible, or must be absolute.

[Yunla]

I think that limpets could use the example of PTP hanging onto power, to learn more about the art of relentlessly gripping onto things.

[whybother]

This from the man who wants to absolve himself from any responsibility for the deaths, injuries and destruction caused by the red shirts riots he helped lead.

But then he doesn't accept any responsibility for his actions so why the need for absolution?

Ehhh, it was the yellow shirt backed military that is responsible for the coup, the murders, injuries, and destruction, because they had the bullets from sniper rifles and tanks,

and that is why they want to keep the immunity!!! no big surprise there huh.

I wonder just when people will stop trying to re-write history

And Weng tried the same with AK47 armed red shirts but failed.....Causing a lot deaths.

While no one died on the Army coup.

OOHHH really you think??? try a little history lesson, October 6th 1976,

What does 1976 have to do with the yellow shirts or the current constitution?

[aussieinthailand]

At the end of the day if the military stayed out of it and let democracy take it's course then there would not be any immunity or cancellation of it in question.

The Thaksin bashers keep (forgetting) that, or maybe they do support a little coup here and there when it suits them which would be any time they loose yet another election.

I just sayin

[billd766]

This from the man who wants to absolve himself from any responsibility for the deaths, injuries and destruction caused by the red shirts riots he helped lead.

But then he doesn't accept any responsibility for his actions so why the need for absolution?

If there was no coup, there would have been no red shirts.

If there were no yellow shirts, there would have been no coup.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

This topic is not able to be discussed properly anyway due to forum rules and Thai laws so the discussion is baseless and thus directionless when we cannot even hint at or acknowledge some of the true reasons behind it.

The only way forward for Thailand is there is no way forward... yet, but it seems to me if that they are unable to take responsibility for the simplest of mistakes or actions in everyday life, facing the consequences like adults, then resolution on this current situation is either impossible, or must be absolute.

I would agree with you 100% provided that you mean ALL persons involved since 2001 from the lowest of the low to the highest of the high. ALL the Army and Police Leaders, Thaksin, ALL the Red Shirt leaders, ALL the Yellow Shirt leaders, Abhisit and Suthep included and NO parliamentary immunity for anyone.

If you are not in the country you MUST be tried in abstensia with NO excuses, NO political advisors saying this cannot be allowed. No witnesses for any sides allowed to go "missing" or they will be jailed as well.

Full and open trial with the TV and press in attendance and NOTHING behind closed doors for ANYBODY.

If you feel that a fair trial will not happen in Thailand there is always the Netherlands with independent courts and if you really want I am sure that Thailand copuld declare a piece of land with buildings as a protem court with full diplomatic immunity.

Of course if the majority of those persons reject this solution (and at least one side or the other will) then you will have your answer.

[whybother]

At the end of the day if the military stayed out of it and let democracy take it's course then there would not be any immunity or cancellation of it in question.

The Thaksin bashers keep (forgetting) that, or maybe they do support a little coup here and there when it suits them which would be any time they loose yet another election.

I just sayin

One coup in 20 years. Looks like they might be learning.

[h90]

At the end of the day if the military stayed out of it and let democracy take it's course then there would not be any immunity or cancellation of it in question.

The Thaksin bashers keep (forgetting) that, or maybe they do support a little coup here and there when it suits them which would be any time they loose yet another election.

I just sayin

yes but first you need to establish democracy. They coup maker tried that with the new constitution, which gives the people more rights, establish independent agencies and improves the separation of power.

Unfortunately the constitution is faulty and does nothing efficient against vote buying.

So how to get democracy first. I don't expect that the undemocratic government will do anything to establish democracy. So you need an event, a revolution, a coup...something.

Better having a coup than having the Shinawattra clan making Thailand their private property, similar to North Korea.

[fab4]

fab4 post # 10

Does that mean that you agree with coups and the fact that the perpetrators can absolve themselves from all responsibility?

Methinks that you are unable or unwilling to appreciate the irony of that comment or instead of irony we could say sarcasm.

Please explain the irony or sarcasm in my statement?

[aussieinthailand]

At the end of the day if the military stayed out of it and let democracy take it's course then there would not be any immunity or cancellation of it in question.

The Thaksin bashers keep (forgetting) that, or maybe they do support a little coup here and there when it suits them which would be any time they loose yet another election.

I just sayin

yes but first you need to establish democracy. They coup maker tried that with the new constitution, which gives the people more rights, establish independent agencies and improves the separation of power.

Unfortunately the constitution is faulty and does nothing efficient against vote buying.

So how to get democracy first. I don't expect that the undemocratic government will do anything to establish democracy. So you need an event, a revolution, a coup...something.

Better having a coup than having the Shinawattra clan making Thailand their private property, similar to North Korea.

" yes but first you need to establish democracy" OK here's some democracy for you...

1. In January Thaksin had a sweeping victory at the polls winning a larger popular mandate (40%) than any Thai prime minister has ever had in freely elected national assembly.

2.Thaksin won a majority in election in February 2005 giving him a second consecutive term.

3.In February 2006 Thaksin called for a snap election in April, the opposition boycotted the elections causing the constitutional court to latter nullify the results, another election was scheduled for October 2006

.

4.On 19 September with the prime minister in New York for a meeting of the United nations general assembly, Army commander-in-chief launched a coup ''d'état, the October elections were canceled the 1997 constitution was abrogated Parliament was dissolved Thaksin's diplomatic passport was cancelled.

5. General election December 2007 the People Power Party won the majority of seats parliament and democratic rule was restored...

you know the rest mate,

Like I said no coup no immunity or calls for cancellations.

[fab4]

At the end of the day if the military stayed out of it and let democracy take it's course then there would not be any immunity or cancellation of it in question.

The Thaksin bashers keep (forgetting) that, or maybe they do support a little coup here and there when it suits them which would be any time they loose yet another election.

I just sayin

yes but first you need to establish democracy. They coup maker tried that with the new constitution, which gives the people more rights, establish independent agencies and improves the separation of power.

Unfortunately the constitution is faulty and does nothing efficient against vote buying.

So how to get democracy first. I don't expect that the undemocratic government will do anything to establish democracy. So you need an event, a revolution, a coup...something.

Better having a coup than having the Shinawattra clan making Thailand their private property, similar to North Korea.

As far as I am aware the route to democracy does not include the right to tear up a constitution written by the citizens of that country ( a fact disregarded by the Constitutional Court when holding up the Military written constitution as a shining example of how to do it to the PTP - did they have a chance at a referendum before the Army wrote the new Constitution?) and then holding a rigged referendum (a large number of provinces under military rule and no "No" campaigning, amongst other blocks to a free vote) that upheld their new version with an inbuilt amnesty clause.

Do you honestly believe the Constitution was to help the people of Thailand?

Edited October 10, 2013 by fab4

[Siripon]

At the end of the day if the military stayed out of it and let democracy take it's course then there would not be any immunity or cancellation of it in question.

The Thaksin bashers keep (forgetting) that, or maybe they do support a little coup here and there when it suits them which would be any time they loose yet another election.

I just sayin

yes but first you need to establish democracy. They coup maker tried that with the new constitution, which gives the people more rights, establish independent agencies and improves the separation of power.

Unfortunately the constitution is faulty and does nothing efficient against vote buying.

So how to get democracy first. I don't expect that the undemocratic government will do anything to establish democracy. So you need an event, a revolution, a coup...something.

Better having a coup than having the Shinawattra clan making Thailand their private property, similar to North Korea.

" yes but first you need to establish democracy" OK here's some democracy for you...

1. In January Thaksin had a sweeping victory at the polls winning a larger popular mandate (40%) than any Thai prime minister has ever had in freely elected national assembly.

2.Thaksin won a majority in election in February 2005 giving him a second consecutive term.

3.In February 2006 Thaksin called for a snap election in April, the opposition boycotted the elections causing the constitutional court to latter nullify the results, another election was scheduled for October 2006

.

4.On 19 September with the prime minister in New York for a meeting of the United nations general assembly, Army commander-in-chief launched a coup ''d'état, the October elections were canceled the 1997 constitution was abrogated Parliament was dissolved Thaksin's diplomatic passport was cancelled.

5. General election December 2007 the People Power Party won the majority of seats parliament and democratic rule was restored...

you know the rest mate,

Like I said no coup no immunity or calls for cancellations.

Unfortunately you haven't included all the reasons why democracy under Thaksin failed- namely his relentless attempts to undermine every check and balance necessary in a democracy.

I stood against General Suchinda in 1992, I was one of those who cheered in the 'green flag' constitution of 1997, but by 2006 it was plain Thaksin was doing everything to emasculate any court, tribunal or committee that investigated him.The final straw was when he went back on his word and refused to explain to Parliament about his sale to Temasek. He knew he had enough votes to win the upcoming election so in his mind that would vindicate him.

'The people elected me, therefore I am untouchable' is his thinking- and he still thinks that today, that he is above the law.

In a true democracy nobody is above the law.