wireless connection more effective on the floor

[infinity11]

Your understanding of physics leaves room for improvement.

Is the desk metal?

Move the antenna.

-Nobody's perfect. Enlighten me/us?

-It's not metal, why?

-The router/antenna is fixed in the building, not an option, yet.

[hawker9000]

If your wireless router has two or more antenna, try aiming one antenna straight up (vertically) and one at a 90 degree angle (horizontally).

You may need to experiment some to see which specific antenna orientations gives you the best signal.

Wireless Router Antenna Example.jpg

Antenna need to be in the same polarisation, so, if the PC wireless network card is vertical, then the antenna on the "router" must be vertical, this is for maximum power transfer, any variation reduces the received power. Two antennae are usually for "diversity" and improve reception.

..."diversity" meaning I think (someone pls correct me if I'm wrong) that only one of the 2 antennae is used at a time, the device having some kind of sampling logic that periodically sniffs and then decides which is the better antenna to use. Therefore, it's not like they reinforce each other but rather give the device a choice of gain patterns to use. This might be helpful if non co-located PCs are sharing the access point, or you have a laptop (or tablet) and move it around. Edited November 3, 2013 by hawker9000

[infinity11]

+1 on the ground plane idea.

To our OP, where is the router in relation to the PC?

Two stories down sadly

[RichCor]

+1 on the ground plane idea.

To our OP, where is the router in relation to the PC?

Two stories down sadly

I think THIS is your issue. 2 consecutive Floors is a bit much to expect a consumer WiFi product to cover.

If we think of a Consumer WiFi Router antenna signal pattern as a big inflatable donut (fig 1).

fig 1: fig2:

The radiation pattern from the standard consumer WiFi antenna is horizontal to the Same Floor as the device. The signal lobe extend up and down a bit but most of the pattern is extending out horizontally. Some hotels can cover three floors ( same / 1 above / 1 below ) but the walls, floors and and metal reflect or absorb huge portions of the signal. Adding Hi-Gain antennas to the Router just flatten-out the signal pattern (fig 2 cross-section), less signal going up or down, more extending out on the same floor. So adding higher-gain (+dBi) antennas here won't help.

One option would be to -center- the WiFi Router between all the users, though in reality doing this may just give a crappy signal to all the users.

Another option would be to purchase an external USB WiFi adapter with a Hi-Gain Directional Antenna for the outlaying user and have them point the antenna dish/panel directly at the router down under. (fig 3) With a long-enough cable, it could even sit on the floor.

Fig 3:

[infinity11]

ok good idea running a dedicated line from downstairs

guess i need 30-50 feet of line
i did a test with a short line and it works
i didn't even have to adjust a thing
instant connection
still only 40-50 kbps but better than 10 or none

i should find out the plan and package they have here, i suspect there is a limit (time or data) it starts out 200-300 kbps but then goes down to 40-50 quickly
there appears to be only one output from the adsl box that connects to the router

i suppose i could attach a splitter/adapter and run directly from that box, yes?

test 2
direct connection to adsl box
up to almost 1 g speed and then soon back down to omfg 20 <deleted>

maybe someone has split the line even further downstairs

but all in all looking hopeful

go to tukcom buy some line what does that go for, sold by the meter?

[RichCor]

Infinity11, a couple of questions for you:

How MANY people, or units, share this connection with you???

Do you have permission to run a direct line from an OPEN PORT on either the aDSL modem or from an OPEN PORT of the nearest WiFi Router/Wireless Access Point (WAP)?

Direct connections are almost always the best. An Ethernet cable (8-wire with RJ45 connectors) run to your residence can be directly connected to your single computer, or into an Ethernet Switch/Hub that can then be connected to your other equipment.

300kbps sounds awful. 50kbps? Wow. Time to pull out those AOL disks you've been keeping.

I'd ask about getting either a different Internet provider into the complex (not easy), or a couple more feeds from the same provider to an Ethernet load-balancer to expand the bandwidth... or, try to get your own connection, whether that be Wired aDSL, etc, or a Wireless provider (other WiFi or 3G Internet). Heck, I won't even put up with EDGE service on my phone, I'd rather Disable Data, and do.

Any other WiFi providers show up on your laptop in the area? TOT WiFi, 3BB WiFi, True WiFi, etc. Last year I used an external USB WiFi stick on a 20 meter extension and had access to 10Mbps 3BB WiFi Internet for ฿99/mo. Couldn't torrent, well not directly. Or a 3G Internet stick. Could be better than what you can get from 'the building association'.

Just some thoughts.

[infinity11]

Actually i use the air card as a back up but i only get like 1 g a month plan or something.

I think its 400 baht a month, please do tell me about 99 baht plan.

Provider and package details etc...

There are many WiFi signals in the area/list i will check when i unhook this cable.

[infinity11]

I did a bunch of speed tests.

Distance IS the issue.

This is cool:

http://www.speedtest.net/

[RichCor]

I'm a cheap charlie. For a while I paid AIS ฿550/mo for 2GB and free WiFi while traveling around the country.

When I cancelled that option, AIS sent me an sms offer for AIS WiFi Unlimited 10Mbps for ฿99/mo as they had just teamed up with 3BB to expand their Public WiFi network and once subscribed could use a one-time sms-provided pin code to access @ AISwifi, 3BB_WiFi, 3BB_Hotspot and Cyberpoint WiFi Access Points throughout Thailand.

I believe most of the mobile service companies offer WiFi addons, and I know 3BB partners with AIS and DTAC. Just remember to look for the Unlimited WiFi package/promotion.

http://www.ais.co.th/wifi/en/package-wifi.aspx#tips

http://wifi.3bbwifi.com/packages_en

So, changed my habits a bit, I learned to loiter around 7/11's and other 'hotspots' and quickly download and sync what I needed and then walk away and enjoy my looted bounty on my phone.

Because the login is your mobile number and the one-time sms-provided pin code, I could also connect using my Apple iPad, once I logged out of the service on my phone (only one device can connect at a time). When a friend was hospitalized I lent him my WiFi connected iPad for the duration of his stay after checking for service in his room. Signed him up for his own pin code and he enjoyed wasting time web surfing and watching youtube, and I got out of having to keep him company 24-hours a day for a week or so.

When I purchased a laptop, I also purchased an external Hi-Gain WiFi adapter and could continue to connect from a friend's restaurant a few blocks away from 3BB hotspot. At the time, ฿99 beat ฿599 +vat for a adsl line. Rented a house near a border crossing and added a long USB extension cable to hang the external WiFi adapter out a window and had access to a tower 500m away.

Sadly, I stopped using them when I found a house to rent out in the country and none of the companies have placed a WiFi hotspot nearby. My only options here are aDSL, WINet (or other 2.4/5 Ghz wireless Internet provider), 3G TrueMove-H, Satellite.

While you say 'Distance is the issue', you can use a Hi-Gain antenna, or even attach the 3G or WiFi transceiver to a small Satellite Dish (to grad/direct/concentrate the microwave send/receive signal) and easily connect to a tower 3 miles / 5000 meters away. Playing around, I've connected to marine-based WiFi hotspots 25 miles / 40,000 meters away at around 35mbps. The only real limitation is you generally need a clear line of sight to the WiFi hotspot antenna, even so my connection worked fine even though I had some tall trees that blocked an otherwise clear view.

[infinity11]

i would love 99b a month air card service but after reading your post i got lost

i have a TRUE air card getting 1 gig data a month for about 400 baht currently used and needed only for laptop

distance from MY wifi router IS the issue

however after some tests, the results were sometimes even a bit iffy

close by and direct are the best

far away wifi the worst with drop outs even

however directly connected via hard line showed varying speeds from about 10kps to 900kps but seemed to settle in the 40-50 range which FOR ME is acceptable

there are obviously many issues and other things going on here

(some i may never be aware of or able to affect)

i noticed when downloaded 2 files the larger one would slow down to 40-50 KPS the smaller one blazed on around 100 or more

the education continues

thanks

Edited November 7, 2013 by infinity11

[RichCor]

i would love 99b a month air card service but after reading your post i got lost

i have a TRUE air card getting 1 gig data a month for about 400 baht currently used and needed only for laptop

Yea, I understand about getting lost. Information overload. Sorry.

The ฿99 option is only for WiFi Internet. To use it you'd need to have service nearby and purchase a Hi-Gain external usb WiFi dongle with a long cable and point it out a windows looking towards the signal source.

3G Mobile Data carriers know they can charge Air Card and SmartPhone users higher rates for the everywhere/always connections. I doubt you'll ever find low-cost promotions on the mobile/cellular side of the business.

distance from MY wifi router IS the issue

however after some tests, the results were sometimes even a bit iffy

close by and direct are the best

far away wifi the worst with drop outs even

however directly connected via hard line showed varying speeds from about 10kps to 900kps but seemed to settle in the 40-50 range which FOR ME is acceptable

there are obviously many issues and other things going on here

(some i may never be aware of or able to affect)

i noticed when downloaded 2 files the larger one would slow down to 40-50 KPS the smaller one blazed on around 100 or more

the education continues

thanks

Yes, I agree, sounds like there are 'several' issues here.

One is the distance between you and the WiFi Router. You running a direct cable eliminated this, but still the lousy download rates.

The second issue is the availability/sustained speed of the actual Internet Service in the building.

The third issue may be pulling in content from 'international' locations -- that everyone complains about here.

Before jumping service you may want to verify that Thailand-based web services are as slow as the international ones.

I've also noticed that people who tend to live in 'expat villages' have more issues with loss of speed/bandwidth.

So, here's an actual question for you. What Internet Service Providers are available to you ( (Fiber Optic, Cable Broadband, '3G' Mobile Wireless Data, aDSL, Wireless Internet Service Providers like TOT WiNet, Public Hotspot WiFi, Satellite, etc)? Can you install your own service or are you limited due to building agreements or management?

[infinity11]

Really good question thanks.

Quick answer: i don't know!

As long as i can access the internet for the time being, i will continue as is.

I can always switch to the air card, work on the FLOOR, go down to the router for the best signal, or plug in my hard wire line. I might re-visit your questions should i get desperate again as the high season guests flood into pattaya.

Stab in the dark answer: central pattaya area has many of the options you listed and whatever i want to do i can do as long as i am willing to pay and go through whatever (initial) issues come up along the way.

Thanks for your time and patience.

[hawker9000]

I use a portable wifi unit with an AIS simcard and the 30d plans, and periodically experience it failing to make its 3G connection. The portable wifi router's status indicates a 2G connection at these times, but there's no internet connectivity to my end-unit whatsoever at these times, just the wireless connection to the router. This is in the central Pattaya area. Probably not relevant to your situation.

[RandomSand]

Radio Signals are "waves". Hence the increase or decrease in signal by moving it up or down.

Its best to keep them either desk level or on the roof pointing down. Also check the output in the router settings to make sure no ones changed the power out put level.

So true.. RF signals are like waves....that's why terminology such as wavelength is used to determine how long a wave of certain frequency is. Like a 2.4GHz Wifi router which has frequency waves around 0.125 meter in length or a 5GHz Wifi router which has a wavelength of around 0.06 meter...pretty short waves. No like a 50Hz line frequency wavelength that is 6 million meters long. But the thing about waves is the peaks and valleys of the wave are constantly washing across your device's antenna....the waves are not stationary in space/air. However, but, if you get reflections bouncing back and meeting up with the original wave it can cause additive or subtractive effects to the transmitted power level. But usually reductions in signal strength are predominately caused by obstacles the RF has to get through like floors and walls. But like I mentioned before strange things can effect RF signal strength.

Factually incorrect.

The wevelengh at 5GHz is less than a 0.000007 cm whilst a 50Hz frequency has a wavelength of approx 0.7 M.

Moreover.. Seeing as the wavelengh is so short comapared to the dimensions of a typical room; we are less likely to get any type of harmonic attenuation seen in music as much as we would get totally mangled and unrecoverable information.

The reason the op gets better reception on the floor is simple; Clear line of sight for emissions that are easily garbled by refraction caused by angular surfaces.

[NeverSure]

One more time. It works better when the laptop is on the floor than on the desk, but there's little difference in distance from the router?

There is some kind of electro-magnetic interference on the desk. Perhaps a desk light, especially a fluorescent one? There are many electrical wires to the desk? There is a multi-plug surge protector on the desk? Or any of the above are between the router and the laptop?

There is another electrical appliance such as a desktop computer or printer or something on the desk? Perhaps between the laptop and the router?

Something on that desk, or between the laptop and the router is causing signal and packet loss.

(OK, Just guessing.)

[infinity11]

thanks but nope none of the above

very simple set up here