Senate fails to kill Thai amnesty bill

[webfact]

NATION ANALYSIS
Senate fails to kill amnesty bill
Jintana Panyaarvudh
Somroutai Sapsomboon
The Nation


Deputy Prime Minister Phongthep Thepkanjanana

Group of 40 denies Upper House quorum; speaker says consensus reached on rejecting bill

BANGKOK: -- The blanket amnesty bill is still "alive" after the Senate yesterday failed to form a quorum to deliberate the controversial piece of legislation. The Senate had been expected to reject the bill, which was rushed through the House of Representatives.

Next week will be a crucial one for the government. An anti-amnesty rally led by the Democrat Party delivered an ultimatum for the ruling Pheu Thai Party to annul the bill by Monday evening. A "people's court" will be set up to decide what action should be taken against former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his sister Prime Minister Yingluck.

The meeting of the 149-member Senate was scheduled to start at 2pm yesterday, but two hours later, only 69 senators were present - still short of the 75 needed for the quorum.

The so-called Group of 40 dissident senators boycotted the meeting, saying they wanted to wait until Monday to debate the amnesty bill, as per the original schedule. Amid the lack of quorum, the Senate speaker waited for more senators to join the meeting and meantime allowed members to discuss the bill. The meeting broke for a recess at 4.30pm.

Senate Speaker Nikom Wairatpanij later met with the Group of 40 and failed to convince them to attend the meeting. Nikom resumed the meeting and told the chamber a consensus had been reached between both wings of the upper House to reject the bill in its first reading on Monday at 10am. The Speaker's words brought vocal protests from senators who wanted to continue with the debate.

If the Senate rejects the bill, the House, where Pheu Thai has a majority, could still vote to reaffirm it after a 180-day period.

It is risky for the government to wait until Monday for the Senate to kill the bill. Its continuing existence will spur more people to join protest rallies over the weekend.

Pornthip Hirunkate, vice president of the Tourism Council of Thailand, showed her disappointment with the impasse. Questioning the motives of senators who chose not to attend the meeting, she lamented their failure to help reduce the political heat with a decision on the bill that the business sector had been hoping for.

"The experienced senators showed a different view from the business sector’s. We’re worried about the situation and want politicians to act. But as they chose not to act, we could just sit and watch," she said. She added that she is concerned that the Senate’s meeting on Monday as well as the judgement on the Preah Vihear could be a double blow to the country. "I just hope that all love the nation enough not to destroy it."

The Stock Exchange of Thailand index yesterday also shed 20.20 points on Friday or 1.42 per cent, to 1,405.03, purely on political concerns. On Thursday night,

It suits the opposition Democrat Party's strategy that deliberations on the bill will be delayed until Monday, the same day the International Court of Justice will deliver its verdict on the Preah Vihear dispute. A ruling that Thailand must cede territory to Cambodia would hand protesters even more ammunition with which to attack the government.

Moreover, rally leader and Democrat MP Suthep Thaugsuban's ultimatum comes with a threat that if Pheu Thai fails to "kill the bill", the opposition will not accept the original amnesty legislation proposed by Pheu Thai MP Worachai Hema. So, the government has no choice but to drop the bill eventually. The protesters could broaden their push against the amnesty bill in a bid topple the government or force it to dissolve the House.

The opposition party is also expected to push for a "no-confidence" debate against the government in the next few days, considering that the government would need at least two weeks to prepare to defend it and the parliamentary session will end on November 28, anonymous Democrat Party source said.

"The main issue in the debate would be corruption. The public is paying attention to this. We will talk about the rice-pledging scheme, the Bt350-billion water management project and the Bt2-trillion loan bill. More importantly, we will bring up the government's behaviour in pushing the amnesty bill," he said.

Meanwhile, fears have emerged of possible clashes between the groups of anti- and pro-amnesty protesters, as well as a police crackdown on demonstrators.

Apart from the Democrats' Democracy Monument rally, the Students and People Network for Thailand's Reform protest is ongoing at Makkhawan Rangsan Bridge, near Government House, while the Dharma Army protesters are occupying Phan Fa Lilat Bridge.

The red shirts will hold a mass rally at Supachalasai Stadium in Bangkok tomorrow. Deputy Commerce Minister Nuttawut Saikuar yesterday announced on Facebook that the red shirts were rallying to show their unity with Pheu Thai and to defend democracy.

Metropolitan Police commissioner Lt-General Kamronwit Thoopkrajang said police had no plans to disperse the crowds.

The government has continued its charm offensive to halt opposition to the bill, using every media channel and network available.

The education minister and his deputies yesterday called a meeting with universities' top executives and asked them to explain the government's position to students and lecturers. Meanwhile, key red-shirt leaders Jatuporn Promphan, Nuttawut Saikuar and Veerakarn Musigapong will be allowed back as hosts of television programme "Truth Today". Their social media team will be busy communicating online with the red shirts.


-- The Nation 2013-11-09

[Mister Fixit]

Craven cowards. Typical Thailand response - hide your head in the sand. Get some balls and do your job.

[Sydebolle]

This reads like kindergarten:
- the "government" - lower house - passes a bill (irrespective of content) with 310:0

- the people go onto the streets and massive, luckily still peaceful, evolve

- the upper house cannot congregate because of some 40 (out of 149 members) senators defy due to the timing
The entire process is irrelevant as 180 days later on the lower house could vote it into law anyhow

In any other society the 310 MPs would have to step-down after such a loss of face. But this is Thailand, the mother of all face-savers.

But as the saying goes - every country has the government it deserves.
Even in Thailand the grass roots from bottom to top - start at the grassroots level, educate rather than slave them!

[build6]

so if the Senate doesn't kill the bill, the bill carries on? does this mean things are going to escalate?

[MaxLee]

The so-called Group of 40 dissident senators boycotted the meeting, saying they wanted to wait until Monday to debate the amnesty bill, as per the original schedule. Amid the lack of quorum, the Senate speaker waited for more senators to join the meeting and meantime allowed members to discuss the bill. The meeting broke for a recess at 4.30pm.

Senate Speaker Nikom Wairatpanij later met with the Group of 40 and failed to convince them to attend the meeting. Nikom resumed the meeting and told the chamber a consensus had been reached between both wings of the upper House to reject the bill in its first reading on Monday at 10am. The Speaker's words brought vocal protests from senators who wanted to continue with the debate.

So how much did those greedy senators get paid under the table by the Pheu Thai secret staging ground Thaksin dogs???

Senators in Thaiand are the crap and disgrace of Thailand...

Wait until Monday???? What the hell are you guys dreaming about. It was crystal clear that the delay game is starting right now, and I wouldn't be surprise if the crappy senators will delay it again and again and again... and that will ignite an upcoming civil revolution... oh ohh...

so if the Senate doesn't kill the bill, the bill carries on? does this mean things are going to escalate?

Very much likely. Those senators are greedy to the ground up their behinds....

Edited November 9, 2013 by MaxLee

[Ricardo]

So when faux-PM Yingluck said yesterday that the peaceful-protesters should go home immediately, because all the proposals on amnesty had now been withdrawn, was she mistaken or telling porky-pies or merely totally-ignorant of how things work here ? The latter seems likely IMO.

The possibility still remains for this Bill to pass, either in its original form or amended to return it to PTP-MP Worachai's original non-ramped-up proposal, so the protests should & will likely continue, if only to influence any last-minute change-of-heart.

Quite why the 40 Senators chose to do things this way is moot, perhaps they have a 'cunning plan', or perhaps they were merely pissed-off at being told they had to come in three days ahead-of-plan, to rush the vote through early ?

Meanwhile the circus spectacle rolls on !

Edited November 9, 2013 by Ricardo

[jdinasia]

Max you may wish to find out the stance of the Group of 40 ... and why they insisted on keeping the originally scheduled day for the debate/first reading. Then you might want to read up on the senate

[MaxLee]

Max you may wish to find out the stance of the Group of 40 ... and why they insisted on keeping the originally scheduled day for the debate/first reading. Then you might want to read up on the senate

Aaaah, by the way, aren't those senate people the same bunch of naughty ruffians who have brawled in palriament several times and watching porns on their I-pads???

I wouldn't be surprised.

This scum is even worst childish than a bunch of innovative kindergarten kids. Even a a child has more common sense than those pieces of worthless TRASH-scum....

Edited November 9, 2013 by MaxLee

[lovetotravel]

Craven cowards. Typical Thailand response - hide your head in the sand. Get some balls and do your job.

I think the group of 40 are holding off, trying to get the bills killed completely. Not let it go back to the house where it can be brought back up in 180 days. Good article in the Bangkok Post talking about this.

Obviously, many don't believe what the current government promises.

[AleG]

So when faux-PM Yingluck said yesterday that the peaceful-protesters should go home immediately, because all the proposals on amnesty had now been withdrawn, was she mistaken or telling porky-pies or merely totally-ignorant of how things work here ? The latter seems likely IMO.

The possibility still remains for this Bill to pass, either in its original form or amended to return it to PTP-MP Worachai's original non-ramped-up proposal, so the protests should & will likely continue, if only to influence any last-minute change-of-heart.

Quite why the 40 Senators chose to do things this way is moot, perhaps they have a 'cunning plan', or perhaps they were merely pissed-off at being told they had to come in three days ahead-of-plan, to rush the vote through early ?

Meanwhile the circus spectacle rolls on !

Moreover, why if Thaksin's government has vowed to terminate the bill do they:

The government has continued its charm offensive to halt opposition to the bill, using every media channel and network available.

That doesn't sound like they have abandoned the plan, does it?

[Publicus]

The Senate isn't doing the Shins a whole lot of favors here.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Publicus

[maoro]

My understanding was that all the proposed legislation was withdrawn yesterday by the people who had put it up and the vote was 310 to 1 to accept the withdrawal so why is it now in the senate?

[shawndoc]

- the upper house cannot congregate because of some 40 (out of 149 members) senators defy due to the timing

I haven't been following the circus that much, but as I understand it they need 75 members to start a quorum. So while their may be a group of 40 who refuse to participate, that still leaves plenty of others who could attend. So really, there's 75 people holding this up.

Second question... Why/how was it passed unanimously in the house, yet can't get support in the Senate. I'm not sure I understand how that works politically.

[steelepulse]

>>If the Senate rejects the bill, the House, where Pheu Thai has a majority, could still vote to reaffirm it after a 180-day period.

What a f**** up style of governance. " Bill got rejected, that's OK, let's wait 180 days and our cronies on the payroll will pass it".

[AleG]

My understanding was that all the proposed legislation was withdrawn yesterday by the people who had put it up and the vote was 310 to 1 to accept the withdrawal so why is it now in the senate?

Don't take it wrong, but you fell for PTP's deceit.

They withdrew the other bills that had been proposed but not voted in, the one that they voted to send to the Senate is still alive and kicking; even more, as reported in another news thread ("The government has continued its charm offensive to halt opposition to the bill, using every media channel and network available") the true actions of the government are different from the spin they try to peddle.

[AleG]

- the upper house cannot congregate because of some 40 (out of 149 members) senators defy due to the timing

I haven't been following the circus that much, but as I understand it they need 75 members to start a quorum. So while their may be a group of 40 who refuse to participate, that still leaves plenty of others who could attend. So really, there's 75 people holding this up.

Second question... Why/how was it passed unanimously in the house, yet can't get support in the Senate. I'm not sure I understand how that works politically.

The answer to the second question goes back to the PTP election slogan, "Thaksin thinks PTP acts"

[maoro]

Thankyou I have a lot to learn about Thai politics

[EricBerg]

Even if the missunderstood fugitive would get his amnesty and could return to Thailand, he would never be/feel save there. And even if he would not be killed by people, stress will do the job.

[shawndoc]

The answer to the second question goes back to the PTP election slogan, "Thaksin thinks PTP acts"

So why did the opposition abstain from voting rather than vote against it?

[Thait Spot]

My understanding was that all the proposed legislation was withdrawn yesterday by the people who had put it up and the vote was 310 to 1 to accept the withdrawal so why is it now in the senate?

This bill had already been sent to the senate.

The remaining 6 bills were canned

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Valentine]

The senate also has the power to revise the bill & send back to parliament. They could also call it a financial bill which would then put the ball squarely back in YS's court. I feel this scenario is what PTP want to avoid hence all the sweet talk about not using it even after 180 days. Note that many red shirts being mobilised to go to Bangkok are coming from the Shin heartland.

[Sydebolle]

- the upper house cannot congregate because of some 40 (out of 149 members) senators defy due to the timing

I haven't been following the circus that much, but as I understand it they need 75 members to start a quorum. So while their may be a group of 40 who refuse to participate, that still leaves plenty of others who could attend. So really, there's 75 people holding this up.

Second question... Why/how was it passed unanimously in the house, yet can't get support in the Senate. I'm not sure I understand how that works politically.

Well, some senators were possibly already busying their weekend; I just read what was written in the papers. But yes, mathematically it is 75 people holding this up:

The unanimous vote is what you call "Thai Democracy" and the result of what happens, if the vote buyers pick the wrong picture - I guess

[AleG]

The answer to the second question goes back to the PTP election slogan, "Thaksin thinks PTP acts"

So why did the opposition abstain from voting rather than vote against it?

PTP made abundantly clear that they'll all vote the thing through in a rush. Why would de Democrats vote and bring a smidgen of legitimacy to the whole sorry process?

[rametindallas]

Best scenario would be for the Senate to modify it to the original version that the Democrats said they could accept as it didn't give amnesty to any leaders or serious lawbreakers. The Red Shirts by and large could also support the original amnesty bill. If the senate sends it back revised to the original (non-blanket) version, will the Lower House have he balls to pass it in that form where Dr. Thaksin does not get a free pass?

[ikke]

The answer to the second question goes back to the PTP election slogan, "Thaksin thinks PTP acts"

So why did the opposition abstain from voting rather than vote against it?

Because coward Abhisit is against all what is democratic and will always be against anything that he did not think about.

[rct99q]

Even if the missunderstood fugitive would get his amnesty and could return to Thailand, he would never be/feel save there. And even if he would not be killed by people, stress will do the job.

did not read all the posts so not sure if someone commented on this one. He would not only be welcomed back with open arms he would probably be awarded the "Golden" key to the country. At least in the North and North East regions of the country. Hidden In behind every picture of the family you will find a picture of TS. At least around my neck of the woods.

He is well liked and respected by many Thai people......regardless of what many TV posters say......I have no opinion one way or the other but just going by how he is talked about in this region (Nongkhai/Udon).

[fab4]

Thankyou I have a lot to learn about Thai politics

Well taken. Shame there are not a few more on here who would take things so graciously when their viewpoints are questioned.

[Bagwan]

Even if the missunderstood fugitive would get his amnesty and could return to Thailand, he would never be/feel save there. And even if he would not be killed by people, stress will do the job.

What puzzles me, and maybe several others, is why Thaksin would want to return to Thailand. He has more money than he could actually spend (even if he financed his sister's shopping), and could flit from place to place anywhere in the World. He should learn the rule of diminishing returns. Why stay on the treadmill for not a lot more?

[kotsak]

Bagwan, on 09 Nov 2013 - 10:30, said:Bagwan, on 09 Nov 2013 - 10:30, said:

EricBerg, on 09 Nov 2013 - 09:01, said:EricBerg, on 09 Nov 2013 - 09:01, said:

Even if the missunderstood fugitive would get his amnesty and could return to Thailand, he would never be/feel save there. And even if he would not be killed by people, stress will do the job.

What puzzles me, and maybe several others, is why Thaksin would want to return to Thailand. He has more money than he could actually spend (even if he financed his sister's shopping), and could flit from place to place anywhere in the World. He should learn the rule of diminishing returns. Why stay on the treadmill for not a lot more?

It's an ego thing.. Outside Thailand he is nobody, just a guy loaded with money.. Here he is being treated like god.. A megalomaniac's paradise..

Plus the control he has over people here.. The most important of all reasons I guess..

Edited November 9, 2013 by kotsak

[Ricardo]

The answer to the second question goes back to the PTP election slogan, "Thaksin thinks PTP acts"

So why did the opposition abstain from voting rather than vote against it?

Because they were denied the right to propose amendments, for the second & third readings, and not allowed to speak out against them, while they were being rushed-through in an all-night-sitting by the 'neutral' Speaker & his Deputies, perhaps ?

Better to refuse to vote, in protest against the undemocratic tactics of PTP & the Speaker, than to give the appearance of it having been in-any-way democratic, good for the Dems !