Thai editorial: Who is responsible for this amnesty mess?

[webfact]

EDITORIAL
Who is responsible for this amnesty mess?
The Nation

Those guilty of splitting the country by pushing controversial legislation should not be allowed to remain silent

BANGKOK: -- The Senate on Monday night voted unanimously to reject the controversial blanket-amnesty bill. That leaves us in a situation that's extremely rare in Thai politics.

The bill's passage has technically been "frozen", since the upper house has no power to quash legislation passed by the House of Representatives. The lower house still has the power to reaffirm and pass the bill once a period of 180 days has passed. Just 20 MPs are needed to trigger a vote on the bill in the lower house.

If passed into law, the bill would absolve perpetrators of all political crimes committed since 2004, including politicians convicted of corruption and criminals guilty of murder and arson.

The ruling-coalition partners - Pheu Thai, Chart Thai Pattana, Chart Pattana and Palang Chon - last Saturday vowed not to seek reaffirmation of the government-backed amnesty bill if the Senate rejected it. In their written promise to the public, the four parties said they would "respect the people's opinion and do not want the conflict to expand". Their move came after Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra's repeated assurances failed to convince the public. Her pledges to respect the Senate's decision were undermined when government politicians divulged a plan to revive the bill after 180 days or propose a similar alternative.

However, even the coalition's written assurance has not convinced the public. Led by the opposition Democrat Party, thousands continue to protest against the bill at the Democracy Monument. Meanwhile civil and business organisations have maintained their opposition to a blanket amnesty.

The government claims the written promise put an end to the issue, so the protesters must now end their rallies. But many people have doubts and are asking two questions: If the bill was good enough to get 310 votes from coalition MPs, why did they allow it to be killed by public pressure? And why, if the bill is too bad or too controversial to reaffirm, did no coalition MP vote against it in the first place?

Political parties should not yield to pressure or fear when proposing legislation they believe is in the public's interest. In doing so, they could deprive the country of a good law.

Also, lawmakers sensitive to the public interest should be able to foresee any social conflict that might arise from passing a controversial law, and not lend their votes to it. In the case of the amnesty bill, politicians could have foreseen the controversy, but they failed to envision the scale of public outrage.

The public reaction should serve as a lesson for MPs and their parties. They must ensure that any law they propose in future serves the country's interests and does not violate moral sense. For example, there should be no more bills that would grant amnesty in cases of corruption or rights abuses.

Calls for those behind this controversial amnesty bill to stand up and accept responsibility have fallen on deaf ears. Even red-shirt supporters of the ruling Pheu Thai Party have demanded answers.

So far, no politician involved has offered even an apology.


-- The Nation 2013-11-14

[tominbkk]

Is there no way at all to completely make the bill go away? If YS was sincere should would be looking into that.

[MilesofSmiles]

The voters, who voted this party in?

The public who tolerate corruption without any sort of consequence or conviction ?

Every time something slips through the cracks, the cracks get bigger.

[soundman]

Is there no way at all to completely make the bill go away? If YS was sincere should would be looking into that.

The way I understand it that dissolving the lower house will kill the bill.

I think this is why the protesters are still protesting and the order from abroad is to do anything to avoid dissolution.

[jdinasia]

Is there no way at all to completely make the bill go away? If YS was sincere should would be looking into that.

The way I understand it that dissolving the lower house will kill the bill.

I think this is why the protesters are still protesting and the order from abroad is to do anything to avoid dissolution.

Correct.

Dissolve the house and then a similar bill cannot be introduced for 60 days and would have to go through the entire process all over again.

Forgive me, but I am unsure if that 60 days starts the day the house is dissolved or the day the new house is sworn in again.

With the history of the TRT/PPP/PTP (and some of their associates like Newin) would you trust them not to have a midnight reading of the bill again in 177 days?

[Thainy Tim]

It is not going away, this is just temporary appeasement.

It will be rammed through in 180 days, or at the very least a new bill produced after the 180 day period keeping Abhisit and Suthep in the dock to win back the red camp.

I would expect in either case, that the government will be immediately dissolved (tactically) and new elections held.

Thaksin will put together a new party consisting mainly of the 'yes men brown nosers' together with a few helpers of this manoeuvre which ultimately will see them voted back into power.

The only other alternative to prevent this scenario, is a coup.

The only way a coup is going to come about is for extreme civil disorder to break out. This is one way the PTP and Thaksin could shoot themselves in the foot once again. If they put the reds back on the street to push the current protesters off their game, this could be the thing that will create that essential civil disorder.

Watch this space.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Thainy Tim

[ezzra]

I rad somewhere that Mr. T is fielding/establishing to new political parties in the north

as a back up/plan B just in case his PT will fold of get toppled from power,

This man will not cease and desist until he will be back in Thailand as a free man,

get his billions back and be a prime minister again, that's his ultimate plan, and

if any one think otherwise, they're deluding them selves...

[worgeordie]

In one word Dr.Thaksin, this is all about him,getting him

white washed and back to Thailand,recover his money

with interest,take over to be PM again,and save Thailand

from this mess he has created,never mind the rule of law,

he and his clan ,have repeatedly shown laws don't apply

to them..

regards Worgeordie

[boomerangutang]

The so-called 'amnesty mess' is simply the endeavors of the Shinawatres fixation on whitewashing their guru. When they chose to indict former PM Abhisit, they thought that would pressure the Dems to comply. That plan backfired, when the indicted duo chose to face the music. PT is willing to shred the Thai Constitution and is willing to burn large buildings in Bkk - whatever it takes, to maintain their power. Ms Yingluck stated clearly that the amnesty thing is shelved, but not killed.

PT politicians look even more like sheeple dunces, when on a Friday they unanimously voted in favor of the bill, then 3 days later they unanimously vote to shelve it.

[JRSoul]

Who is responsible?

Only one person, and that is the PM. Responsibility goes with the position, and despite her desperate attempts to separate administration from legislation, having a minor MP introduce the bill, and absenting herself from parliament so the couldn't be accused of a conflict of interest (abuse of power if she had voted for it), the fact that her party was ordered to vote on party lines for the amended bill leaves no room for escape.

Yes, IMHO she was ordered to do so by her criminal brother, but she claims the position, she gets the responsibility. Several of her MPs voted for an amnesty that includes themselves, AFAIK a criminal offense.

What of the minor coalition parties? Are they so politically inept that they didn't see the problems this would cause, and this bill would scarcely lead to reconciliation? Or are they corrupt enough to bow down to a criminal for consideration, financial or political? Either way, not something you would put on your resume.

[icare999]

Who is responsible?

Only one person, and that is the PM. Responsibility goes with the position, and despite her desperate attempts to separate administration from legislation, having a minor MP introduce the bill, and absenting herself from parliament so the couldn't be accused of a conflict of interest (abuse of power if she had voted for it), the fact that her party was ordered to vote on party lines for the amended bill leaves no room for escape.

Yes, IMHO she was ordered to do so by her criminal brother, but she claims the position, she gets the responsibility. Several of her MPs voted for an amnesty that includes themselves, AFAIK a criminal offense.

What of the minor coalition parties? Are they so politically inept that they didn't see the problems this would cause, and this bill would scarcely lead to reconciliation? Or are they corrupt enough to bow down to a criminal for consideration, financial or political? Either way, not something you would put on your resume.

yes to both of your last questions which is obvious to anyone but most brainwashed Thaksin supporter

person responsible is he who controls from abroad the PM here has no responsibility except to look good and make a pretence to the world that Thailand is not controlled by her brother

[billsmart]

If this comprehensive amnesty bill or something like it does not pass does that mean all parties that have committed or been accused of committing politically-motivated crimes since 2004 would be charged and brought to justice? Would this include the generals who were responsible for the 2006 coup-d'tat?

[craigt3365]

A few posts violating forum rules have been removed from view. I think it's best to print this out here even though it is a pinned topic at the top of this forum:

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While we do not wish to needlessly restrict discussion of current events in Thailand, it's necessary that we put the above restrictions in place to ensure that local laws and customs are honoured, and the forum remains a viable news source for Thailand's expat community.

You may see some news articles referring to such things, but remember that they have expensive legal teams that vet the quotations first, and you/we don't.

Thank you for your co-operation and understanding.

The moderating team.

[whybother]

If this comprehensive amnesty bill or something like it does not pass does that mean all parties that have committed or been accused of committing politically-motivated crimes since 2004 would be charged and brought to justice? Would this include the generals who were responsible for the 2006 coup-d'tat?

The generals already have amnesty because of the 2007 constitution.

Others have already been charged and brought to justice, or have been charged and are going through the courts, or would be charged if they didn't abscond.

[JRSoul]

If this comprehensive amnesty bill or something like it does not pass does that mean all parties that have committed or been accused of committing politically-motivated crimes since 2004 would be charged and brought to justice? Would this include the generals who were responsible for the 2006 coup-d'tat?

The generals already have amnesty because of the 2007 constitution.

Others have already been charged and brought to justice, or have been charged and are going through the courts, or would be charged if they didn't abscond.

You forgot those who committed crimes but investigation by the DSI was stopped with the change in govt thanks to the flexible k.Tarit

Edited November 14, 2013 by JRSoul

[SICHONSTEVE]

Is there no way at all to completely make the bill go away? If YS was sincere should would be looking into that.

Yes there is!!

They can turn it into a financial bill - have it endorsed by Yingluck and then (not) act on it and let it fade away as if nothing ever happened.

[Bakseeda]

If this comprehensive amnesty bill or something like it does not pass does that mean all parties that have committed or been accused of committing politically-motivated crimes since 2004 would be charged and brought to justice? Would this include the generals who were responsible for the 2006 coup-d'tat?

Stupidity knows no bounds.... Ahem.... A certain Mr Thaksin was responsible for the 2006 coup-d'tat. Not so <deleted> smartbill.

[EyesWideOpen]

Everybody is missing the point. The ultimate loading of the feeding trough is waiting just around the corner

with the 2.2 trillion baht " public works" bill. With the standard 30% rake off in Thailand, that is

660 billion baht waiting to carved up by the elites. So be prepared for this government to fight tooth

and nail to stay in power. So to me this amnesty mess is more about getting rid of the Thaksin clan

before they put the country in debt for 50 years........

Edited November 14, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[spirit47]

The 310 MP puppets who vote for...And they plan to push it through in 180 days...Soooo smart.... The best white-washing-agent you ever see, Y....

[SICHONSTEVE]

The 310 MP puppets who vote for...And they plan to push it through in 180 days...Soooo smart.... The best white-washing-agent you ever see, Y....

It won't be pushed through in 180,000 days!!! This bill is as dead as a dodo!!!

[NongKhaiKid]

The author of the article will be well aware that no one of importance will take responsibility as it's not the Thai way. Responsibility is a result of finger pointing and scapegoating an underling.

It was reported that ' Oak ' Shinawatra blamed his dad's sycophants in Bkk for the mess while discreetly ignoring the fact that they were only doing as they were told, however dad's not the man to be blamed or accept such for anything.

I'm having a hard time believing the amnesty situation is over as it was, and will still be, Mr. T's priority and he won't rest until he's back in the country and getting on with things instead of through his puppets

[tragickingdom]

Not convinced the public? The writer means has not convinced the Nation and the ultra right. Of course it was flat out wrong to ask for a blanket amnesty mirrored of those the democrat party always grant coup takers and their cronies. Civilized people want to see Suthep and Abhisit behind bars for ordering the army to shoot and kill. That is the real problem now. The Democrats wanted to look good by telling Thailand it was about Thaksin, but it is also about their leadership and they will face a long jail term, so the government must fall. Unfortunately new elections won't cut it. The Red shirts may have opposed an amnesty but they will never vote for the Democrat Party, so they need chaos in the hope that the army steps in. Than they will pass their own version of a blanket amnesty law. A blanket minus one.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Not convinced the public? The writer means has not convinced the Nation and the ultra right. Of course it was flat out wrong to ask for a blanket amnesty mirrored of those the democrat party always grant coup takers and their cronies. Civilized people want to see Suthep and Abhisit behind bars for ordering the army to shoot and kill. That is the real problem now. The Democrats wanted to look good by telling Thailand it was about Thaksin, but it is also about their leadership and they will face a long jail term, so the government must fall. Unfortunately new elections won't cut it. The Red shirts may have opposed an amnesty but they will never vote for the Democrat Party, so they need chaos in the hope that the army steps in. Than they will pass their own version of a blanket amnesty law. A blanket minus one.

Nice joke post!!

If you think that Abhisit and Suthep are going to see the inside of a court, let alone a prison you are deluded.

The only person who should be doing jail time is a mate of yours.

[belg]

proven now

politics & corruption goes hand in hand...

[SICHONSTEVE]

proven now

politics & corruption goes hand in hand...

It is when Thaksin or PTP is involved!!

[johnlandy]

Quote: So far, no politician involved has offered even an apology. You expect a Thai to apologise. It is not in their vocabulary.....

As to who is responsible, look no further than 'the square faced man' and his puppet sister and lawyer

Edited November 14, 2013 by johnlandy

[Issangeorge]

The Red Shirts are against the amnesty bill, but they are supporting the government because they hate the Democrats. I would love to see the Red Shirts break from Thaksin and form their own party and then perhaps Thailand could see real reform and the first thing they should do is get rid of the party list members. Do you Thaksin supporters out there realize that he has never won a direct election. Hr was always an MP via the party list.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ X using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[mrtoad]

There is only one person responsible for this mess,, and that is the Convicted Criminal Fugutive Caddy in Dubai. The rest are just mere fools carrying out his orders.

[phantomfiddler]

Who is responsible for This mess ? is ThaT a serious quesTion ? You,ve goTTa be kidding !

[SICHONSTEVE]

Who is responsible for This mess ? is ThaT a serious quesTion ? You,ve goTTa be kidding !

I'm still undecided over Terry Thomas, Tina Turner and Tin Tin - I think we can discount Tin Tin as he is a cartoon character and Terry Thomas died over 2 decades ago so I'll go for Tina Turner!!

Why the hell blame her????.