Anti-government protesters enter Thai finance ministry

[gemguy]

When you watch the low life antics of the various politicians and their political parties including their brainwashed avid supporters you begin to really get a feel for the mentality of Thai people as seen and displayed by their ongoing and all too often repetitive political shenanigans that all of them continually perpetrate.

There seems to be no other kind of politician in Thailand other than self serving Thai politicians with their own devious and all too obvious agenda which is based on getting their hands on the money to be made as a politician or a political member of a money grubbing political organisation trying to bring down any existing government.

All of them hide behind a smiling facade making like they are trying to do good for the country while they have plenty of people in the background supporting them while those that are supporting them are only there for the anticipated financial payoff and nothing much else really.

[Robby nz]

Latest in the news page 5 min ago.

The government invoked the Internal Security Act in all districts of Bangkok and Nonthaburi, and 1 district each in Pathum Thani and Samut Prakan.

[Thai at Heart]

Hopefully the baht will take a nice depreciation drop.

wich will also be bad for Thailand, on wich side are you ??

For the last several years, every major economy has been devaluing their currency while, at the same time, Thailand has been strengthening theirs. Can anyone explain the logic of that? My Bangladeshi tailor has claimed for years that 36 - 38 Baht to the Dollar is good for tourism (the bulk of his business). That exchange rate would save the export business which is suffering to the point of disappearing (it would make it easier to sell rice, also), and that rate wouldn't destroy that part of the country's economy dependent on imports e.g. electricity from Myanmar and oil from Singapore, et. al. Depreciation of the Baht would affect inflation less than the 300 Baht minimum wages law. The Thai economy has been overheated for some years now e.g. 0.5% unemployment rate and raising the interest rates would slow the economy to a sustainable level while, at the same time, attracting foreign investment. I tend to agree with my Bangladeshi tailor but for different reasons; he want the depreciation for his own business and I think the depreciation would benefit all of Thailand. Of course, I may be wrong.

I think you need to speak to Mr. Bernanke and Mr. Obama rather than your Bangladeshi tailor, I think they might know why the USD has been so weak recently. In fact there have been 80bn reasons every month for the last few years. Great cut interest rates, let the baht devalue, and inflation would have been way more than the levels we have already seen

[Thai at Heart]

When you watch the low life antics of the various politicians and their political parties including their brainwashed avid supporters you begin to really get a feel for the mentality of Thai people as seen and displayed by their ongoing and all too often repetitive political shenanigans that all of them continually perpetrate.

There seems to be no other kind of politician in Thailand other than self serving Thai politicians with their own devious and all too obvious agenda which is based on getting their hands on the money to be made as a politician or a political member of a money grubbing political organisation trying to bring down any existing government.

All of them hide behind a smiling facade making like they are trying to do good for the country while they have plenty of people in the background supporting them while those that are supporting them are only there for the anticipated financial payoff and nothing much else really.

That is about right I think.

[petedk]

Latest in the news page 5 min ago.

The government invoked the Internal Security Act in all districts of Bangkok and Nonthaburi, and 1 district each in Pathum Thani and Samut Prakan.

I saw this. So what does it mean now?

[Sunderland]

Latest in the news page 5 min ago.

The government invoked the Internal Security Act in all districts of Bangkok and Nonthaburi, and 1 district each in Pathum Thani and Samut Prakan.

It's difficult to enforce the law when it's rarely enforced in the first place.

Whether you think Suthep is mad as nuts or not, if you intend to create chaos and try to bring down a government, then the ministry you would choose to invade would be the one with the money to pay everyone - the finance ministry. I wonder if there are any sensitive documents inside? Perhaps they packed inside those heavy bags that went to London recently.

[transam]

Latest in the news page 5 min ago.

The government invoked the Internal Security Act in all districts of Bangkok and Nonthaburi, and 1 district each in Pathum Thani and Samut Prakan.

I saw this. So what does it mean now?

It means folk must go and find their security personnel who take care of stuff. May take a few days though.

[whybother]

Catch 22, there are simply too many poor, under privileged people in the country who can vote. There is no chance the yellow shirts can win an election and they know it. Greed and self indulgence from the elite have been dragging down any chance of common ground here since the beginning of time. The middle classes are woefully in the minority, the elite are all military, privy or royal. To bridge the gap something needs to give. The only way to increase the middle classes is to distribute the wealth of the elite. Chances are? This only leads to one outcome, coup! Thaksin is elite, however his greed is all about power. He uses the poor to gain his power, where as the military elite suppress the poor for financial gain. There may be a time where the gap closes and a party who have both parties interest at heart will emerge however it is no time soon.

Why is it that the poor people in the south vote for the Democrats?

The idea that this is all about the poor vs elite is complete BS. The Democrats have the South in their pockets. Thaksin has bought the North East, and he keeps winning because that is where most of the people are.

People - rich, poor or middle class - generally vote based on the region that they live.

[SantiSuk]

Peaceful seems not to translate in the same way as English language dictionaries intended it! Occupation is never an act of peace.

The only short term salvation for this nation is that Yingluck holds her nerve and acts peacefully. So far so good.

Edited November 25, 2013 by SantiSuk

[Thai at Heart]

Even accepting your analysis of Reaganomics and the development of the American Middle class, it is drawing a very long bow indeed to in any way suggest that Thailand's circumstances are similar. One major divergence is the whole issue of corruption and it's octopus like stranglehold on this country ( no matter which side is in power). The USA could never have grown in the way it has with conditions in any way comparable to what Thailand faces.

Well firstly I am not talking about Reaganomics, I am if anything talking about the 'New Deal' era of the early 1930's upto the 'Great Society' era of the 1960's. The drive to recover from the Depression, invest in industry, ostracise the conservatives who were an anchor around the legs of the manufacturing economy. While everything is easier in hindsight and Roosevelt has a lot of critics, this was an era of great progress and change, incredible feats of engineering, railways and manufacturing and yes a blossoming middle class. This is especially remarkable considering the truly dark era that preceded it. And while there was not equality for all, and racism was mainstream, in terms of industry and upward mobility this age was truly a golden age, from which the US has only headed downhill since.

This also chimes in with your other point re; how does it relate to Thailand, as Roosevelt's "New Deal" era arrived on the back of the crippling depression, mass-poverty and anarchy in the streets. What it took to pull the US back from the brink was a man with a vision, and the vision was an all-out manufacturing economy, heavy industry, and full-wage rights for workers. Many many people on Thaivisa including myself, have said that all Thailand needs is a new leader with a vision for reform and the guts to go through with it. And in Thailand's case, as you so rightly pointed out, the vision would have to include as a starting position a total corruption null-point, an uprooting of the whole rotten tree, starting at the top and working down. It can be done it would just take a leader with a titanium backbone and unwavering conviction. We don't have any such leader in the public sphere, as far as I know. But that is what it would take. Also worth mentioning is that corruption is a by-product of inadequate full-wage employment, so you would crack down on corrupt politicians, officials, police, and work down to corruption in business, starting at the top. While investing in infrastructure and industry so that people who want to earn a fair wage can do so without having to resort to crime in the first place. But it takes leadership, it takes a rare and brave leader to tackle the enormous ****storm that is coming down. I pray frequently that we will see such a leader eventually.

But that is the whole problem I have with the actions in the OP. Storming buildings and hitting photographers is not what is needed. A leader with progressive thinking and the courage to fight for those ideals in the political arena, is what is needed. They will face overwhelming odds in their battle against corruption, it is a mammoth task, but history shows us that nations on the brink of disaster can turn the corner, like in the New Deal era.

Look what Korea achieved in 40 years.

Big differences.

a. The population has an enormous respect for education more than connections

b. The people that were looked to to develop the country were Korean, as opposed to Thailand where they were essentially Thai Chinese.

Both societies were enormously corrupt, but Korea got going to go forward as a country to invest and develop itself finally locking up loads of people and coppers for corruption. Thailand got ahead on a model of Thai Chinese exploiting cheap labour instead of investing in education to grow the ability of the people, so today, the Thai companies that remain must cower behind domestic protectionism whilst Korea opens up and has world class companies of it's own.

Two countries, similar journey, two outcomes.

[dao16]

Disneyland. If these bandits overturn this government, then th "reds" will do bad things, worse than 2010. This is the only way the so called Democrats ever can form a government. They will never win it by election.

Yeah, I love the name "Democrats." So reminiscent of the North Korean propaganda I read.

As are the hollow claims of the UDD to be acting in defense of democracy.

Oh, believe me, I am an equal opportunity hater of these groups. Kind of similar to where I am from......sad....

[BigC]

 

 

Hopefully the baht will take a nice depreciation drop.

 

wich will also be bad for Thailand, on wich side are you ??

 

For the last several years, every major economy has been devaluing their currency while, at the same time, Thailand has been strengthening theirs. Can anyone explain the logic of that? My Bangladeshi tailor has claimed for years that 36 - 38 Baht to the Dollar is good for tourism (the bulk of his business). That exchange rate would save the export business which is suffering to the point of disappearing (it would make it easier to sell rice, also), and that rate wouldn't destroy that part of the country's economy dependent on imports e.g. electricity from Myanmar and oil from Singapore, et. al. Depreciation of the Baht would affect inflation less than the 300 Baht minimum wages law. The Thai economy has been overheated for some years now e.g. 0.5% unemployment rate and raising the interest rates would slow the economy to a sustainable level while, at the same time, attracting foreign investment. I tend to agree with my Bangladeshi tailor but for different reasons; he want the depreciation for his own business and I think the depreciation would benefit all of Thailand. Of course, I may be wrong.

 

 

 

I think you need to speak to Mr. Bernanke and Mr. Obama rather than your Bangladeshi tailor, I think they might know why the USD has been so weak recently.  In fact there have been 80bn reasons every month for the last few years.  Great cut interest rates, let the baht devalue, and inflation would have been way more than the levels we have already seen

Why do you keep comparing everything to the US

America has not proper history it was a new country with people from all back grounds making a new country

Countries like Thailand have very deep history and religious believes which all though may not agree with they shape the people of today

Sometimes it is easier I smash a house down than fix a house with so many problems and start building again

Unfortunately in this case the country cannot be pulled apart and re- built as it has thousands of years of culture and belief systems

If corruption is in their blood right from the top down the the people who work selling bus tickets then there is no way you can change this mind set

The only way is through compromise or with martial law which can start out ok but if an army general is in power then he does not have to care what the people want as he is In charge

As Winston Churchill said

Democracy is not the perfect solution but it is the best solution available that we have

Right now we have a problem because the person in question who has run away shall not go to the UN and face up to these charges

As long as Taksin hides and does not accept this ruling then this trouble shall not end

If he takes his case to The Hague and wins the. The Thai people have to accept that

If he loses then Taksin has to face the punishment

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[rametindallas]

suthep has said they will win in 3 days. today was day one. what happens/what will the protesters do if they don't win in 3 days? just give up or continue (if they'd continue anyway, then why the 3 day forecast?). it's never good to make such forecasts... but it seems they are very popular in thailand (promise to solve a certain problem in a certain time - usually nothing happens).

or was that only 'encouragement for the troops'?

basically i agree with most reasons for the protests - buth with his past, suthep is maybe not the right person to lead them...

also, what do they want? the only really democratic thing would be dissolution of parliament and snap elections. which the opposition would very probably not be sure to win. and then we'd very fast just have the same scenario again as now.

violence or the miltary stepping in would not be any viable solutions.

I agree with your post. That said, I want to explain why Mr. Suthep is the only person in the anti-Thaksin crowd to lead this protest. In my opinion, there are only a few public figures in Thailand who can get away with un-Thai behavior. They are: Pol. Capt. Chalerm Yubamrung, Multi-millionaire, Deputy Prime Minister, Plodprasop Suraswadee, former 'soapy king' and currently head of "Love Thailand" (Rak Prathetthai), Chuwit Kamolwisit, and former Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsaban. Now, you tell me who can speak outrageously enough the stir enough passion to overthrow a government. No Thai will be stirred to action by a well thought out argument using logic. People need to be outraged if they are going to behave in manner that stirs the government to either fight them or agree to their terms. It has always been my opinion that political leaders need a pit-bull (attack dog) to do their dirty work. Mr. Chalerm was Dr. Thaksin's pit bull and Mr. Suthep was Mr. Abhist's pit bull. It is also my opinion that pit bulls need to be kept on a short leash and I am worried that Mr. Suthep has slipped his collar and is loose and on his own. This is very concerning because I believe this can be resolved with violent confrontation with the government. Peace in Thailand.

[BigC]

Peaceful seems not to translate in the same way as English language dictionaries intended it! Occupation is never an act of peace.

 

The only short term salvation for this nation is that Yingluck holds her nerve and acts peacefully. So far so good.

She does not have to do anything

All the dirty work is being done by other people to keep her hands clean

For me she messed up the country with this minimum wage

Now Thais can't get jobs because employers cannot afford them or they are worried that they might get sued by thier staff if they sack them

Hence less thai staff

More burmease Cambodians

More frustrated Thais searching hold chains

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[Robby nz]

The government invoked the Internal Security Act in all districts of Bangkok and Nonthaburi, and 1 district each in Pathum Thani and Samut Prakan.

Wonder where they plan to get the cops to enforce this ?

I read that the riot police that are there now are mostly from the north and north east and have been living in govt buildings sleeping on the floor or on hammocks.

They are getting pretty pissed off as some of them have been in BKK for some time without seeing their families.

They are getting 3 or 4 hundred extra a day but it would seem being away from home and having to do 6 hr shifts is getting to them.

[bigbamboo]

Disneyland. If these bandits overturn this government, then th "reds" will do bad things, worse than 2010. This is the only way the so called Democrats ever can form a government. They will never win it by election.

Yeah, I love the name "Democrats." So reminiscent of the North Korean propaganda I read.

North Korea...... isn't that where the ruling party claim to be democrats but all it's leaders are appointed from the same family?

[whybother]

Look at it from the bright side. The South is quiet. No bombings, no soldiers murdered, no teachers and children beheaded. All the scum have been sent to Bangkok by the Democrat Party. Foreign journalists are attacked like in 2010 accused by Democrat congressmen of being red shirt supporters and three ministeries are ransacked.

Anyone wants more proof that yellow shirts are undemocratic and narcissists?

You should read the news occasionally.

[waza]

Latest in the news page 5 min ago.

The government invoked the Internal Security Act in all districts of Bangkok and Nonthaburi, and 1 district each in Pathum Thani and Samut Prakan.

I saw this. So what does it mean now?

It means folk must go and find their security personnel who take care of stuff. May take a few days though.

It means the government is getting ready for a violent response by their BIB or the third hand.........

Police cover the CCTV cameras

Edited November 25, 2013 by waza

[jimbeam1]

"Tomorrow we will seize all ministries to show to the Thaksin system that they have no legitimacy to run the country," Suthep said, addressing the crowd through a loud speaker.

 

The way I read it, If  they do go ahead with this. The Police/Military will have no option but to go in. Because like it or not they are an elected government.

Tin hats at the ready.

jb1

 

 

The police will fight a bit.  But they won't fight that much after a few of them were found guilty for the way they tried to break up the yellows before.  If they fight too much, the army will come out to protect the "citizenry".

 

Either way, the government won't win.  They must have a plan C.  Thaksin always does.  What can it be.

Ah, Plan C that's the $64, 000 question.

It makes me think is this all part of the master plan?

Jb1

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[whybother]

It means the government is getting ready for a violent response by their BIB or the third hand.........

thai police.jpg Police cover the CCTV cameras

That's actually scary. Why in the hell would they be covering the cameras? What are they trying to hide?

[icare999]

Bad bad move. You're now no better than the red thugs. I'd hoped some lessons had been learned, but I guess that was too much to hope for.

I don't think a peaceful occupation of a government building is anywhere near in the same league as the red shirts mate. They have not burned it down and are not filling it with weapons.

Lessons probably have been learned, hence the huge contrast between the two types of demonstrations.

Well, we will see. The 2010 protests started out peacefully also, but with Suthep riling everyone up, I think these "peaceful" occupations and protests could very easily turn into something much worse.

started peacefully ?? bring your bottles to BKK and well supply petrol. Yes started very peaceful did it not. What BS some people speak

[icare999]

Most Thaivisa posters will no doubt be familiar with photojournalist Nick Nostitz. After Bluesky TV had a section devoted to him insisiting he works for the reds (total nonsense as we know), unfortunately it then appears Nick was assaulted (not sure how badly injured he is) after being singled out by a Democrat MP from the stage:

Anasuya ‏@Anasuya 2h

Democrat MP Chumpon pointed him out from the protest stage calling him a "red shirt journalist" and urged the crowd to kick him out.

Anasuya ‏@Anasuya 2h

Nick said it was seconds before the first fists hit him. He is filing charges and this rules out him covering the yellow protests

He also appears to have been singled out on the Blue SkyTV FB page: https://www.facebook.com/BLUESKYChannel/posts/406698986099538

Anyway, people complaining that the anti-govt protests are not receiving coverage. Well, they were on Channel 3 last night. It'd be understandable if Channel 3 were reluctant to show them again though after they apparently forced their way in and demanded that Sorrayuth blow a whistle and apologize...

Sunai ‏@sunaibkk 49m

Getting disgusting! While Sorayuth urged for peaceful expression & respect for different opinions, protesters demanded him to apologize.

Sunai ‏@sunaibkk 46m

Protesters demanding Sorayuth to blow a whistle, handed to him by Democrat politician. > #Intimidation

IMHO Nick Nostitz deserves it.

He should not have taken Thaksin money.

Nick Nostitz is quite a good photojournalist but he is definitely a dyed-in-the-wool red shirt. He reported on New Mandala that the yellow shirt protestors at Parliament in 2008 deserved to be shot with explosive tear gas grenades because they failed to observe police instructions to disperse and produced somewhat one-sided accounts of the red shirt storming of the APEC conference in Pattaya, the attack on PM Abhisit's car and the red shirt riots in 2009 and 2010. It seems that Dem MP Chumpon pointed him out from the stage and the crowd had a go at him - not a very nice thing to do but Nick must have known the risks he was running by being there as a known red shirt sympathiser. He reported an attack on TV news cars by red shirts in 2009 as if the TV crews deserved it for being biased against the red shirts. Now the screw has turned the other way.

At any rate he now has another great action man story on a par with the time when he was shot at by yellow shirt guards firing ball bearings from their sling shots. He can also report the restraint used by the demonstrators in only giving him a mild duffing up in the same way as he reported the gentleness with which the red shirt guards beat up Abhisit's secretary-general, Niphon, when they were frustrated in their attempt to murder Abhisit himself.

And, your point is? We sit here on Thaivisa being bombarded with articles from the Nation who if they had their way would tell us that Thaksin feasts on the innards of new born babies if they could get away with it.

Journalists have a bias, they report on what they see throw their own mind and emotion. Beating him up is so nonsensical, that in any other reasonable country the MP would be up on charges for insighting violence. I mean, if Abhsit is accused of murder, it will be far easier to prove that this bloke incited these idiots to beat someone up.

Thugs, the lot of them.

you mean Taksin does not feast on new born. If not he would if it got him back and able to totally control Taksinland. In fact IMO he'd feast on anything as long as he got total power. But then of course thats nonsense he's a nice man who only cares for the poor and nothing for himself.

[Thai at Heart]

Nick Nostitz is quite a good photojournalist but he is definitely a dyed-in-the-wool red shirt. He reported on New Mandala that the yellow shirt protestors at Parliament in 2008 deserved to be shot with explosive tear gas grenades because they failed to observe police instructions to disperse and produced somewhat one-sided accounts of the red shirt storming of the APEC conference in Pattaya, the attack on PM Abhisit's car and the red shirt riots in 2009 and 2010. It seems that Dem MP Chumpon pointed him out from the stage and the crowd had a go at him - not a very nice thing to do but Nick must have known the risks he was running by being there as a known red shirt sympathiser. He reported an attack on TV news cars by red shirts in 2009 as if the TV crews deserved it for being biased against the red shirts. Now the screw has turned the other way.

At any rate he now has another great action man story on a par with the time when he was shot at by yellow shirt guards firing ball bearings from their sling shots. He can also report the restraint used by the demonstrators in only giving him a mild duffing up in the same way as he reported the gentleness with which the red shirt guards beat up Abhisit's secretary-general, Niphon, when they were frustrated in their attempt to murder Abhisit himself.

And, your point is? We sit here on Thaivisa being bombarded with articles from the Nation who if they had their way would tell us that Thaksin feasts on the innards of new born babies if they could get away with it.

Journalists have a bias, they report on what they see throw their own mind and emotion. Beating him up is so nonsensical, that in any other reasonable country the MP would be up on charges for insighting violence. I mean, if Abhsit is accused of murder, it will be far easier to prove that this bloke incited these idiots to beat someone up.

Thugs, the lot of them.

you mean Taksin does not feast on new born. If not he would if it got him back and able to totally control Taksinland. In fact IMO he'd feast on anything as long as he got total power. But then of course thats nonsense he's a nice man who only cares for the poor and nothing for himself.

Quotes got a it messed up, but the reality is, to go and threaten to or actually beat up a journalist because he is pro or anti something is so pathetic it doesn't bear explaining. For an MP who is supposedly meant to uphold democracy and free speech to start the process, is even worse.

As I said elsewhere, there is no such thing as hypocrisy in Thailand, just winners and losers, the powerful and the weak.

[diceq]

I'd love to see this government fall and held accountable for anything they've done but I'm not sure this is the way to go about it. It depends on what they do next as there's a risk of it becoming violent.

It would be interesting to see what the government would do if the protesters caused as much trouble as in 2010 but that wouldn't help those who live and work in Bangkok.

But holding the prior government responsible for overthrowing a democratically elected government you don't care about.

[diceq]

It means the government is getting ready for a violent response by their BIB or the third hand.........

thai police.jpg Police cover the CCTV cameras

That's actually scary. Why in the hell would they be covering the cameras? What are they trying to hide?

Maybe they are trying to protect the cameras so the fascist supporters can't destroy them with slings.

[mogo51]

Well here we go again, back on the red/yellowshirt merry go round! To call Thailand a democracy is a farce. They do not even know how to spell the word, due largely to the fact that the day spelling democracy was on the education menu. they could not open the school because there was no money left!!!

What a shame as it could be such a great country, if only there was some unity - perhaps a subject 'democracy' should be added to the curriculum so that young Thais can get an education into what it actually consists of.

[waza]

Sometimes its like debating with children.....

It means the government is getting ready for a violent response by their BIB or the third hand.........

thai police.jpg Police cover the CCTV cameras

That's actually scary. Why in the hell would they be covering the cameras? What are they trying to hide?

Maybe they are trying to protect the cameras so the fascist supporters can't destroy them with slings.

Where is the logic of disabling the CCTV cameras just in case someone else may disable them, especially for the BIB who rely on them to solve crimes for them?

Quotes got a it messed up, but the reality is, to go and threaten to or actually beat up a journalist because he is pro or anti something is so pathetic it doesn't bear explaining. For an MP who is supposedly meant to uphold democracy and free speech to start the process, is even worse.

As I said elsewhere, there is no such thing as hypocrisy in Thailand, just winners and losers, the powerful and the weak.

Try to stay up to date, Suthep isn't an MP and hasn't been for over 2 weeks..........

"November 11, 2013 6:15 pm: Suthep Thaugsuban announced his resignation as an MP Monday evening to lead the fight against the Yingluck government."

Lastly, the anti-amnesty and anti-government protestors are not the "yellowshirts" or "PAD", they are a loose collective of several organic and independent protest groups working in unison for vaguely similar goals. But the main conduit of unity is their mutual dislike of Thaksin and his corrupt policies and the shared belief that he is the cause of Thai disunity.

Edited November 25, 2013 by waza

[Sunderland]

It means the government is getting ready for a violent response by their BIB or the third hand.........

thai police.jpg Police cover the CCTV cameras

That's actually scary. Why in the hell would they be covering the cameras? What are they trying to hide?

Bizarre. Especially when some people were convinced that most of them were empty boxes.

[MAJIC]

Bad bad move. You're now no better than the red thugs. I'd hoped some lessons had been learned, but I guess that was too much to hope for.

<deleted>, "no better than the red thugs" you want a scan for sure. I hope some lessens can be learned and the Thai people are never bought again at election time. To add -never got what was promised them. The only thing they achieved was mega corruption.

Well they need to understand that ,not me or you,unless you are Thai?

Edited November 25, 2013 by metisdead
30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

[whybother]

 

It means the government is getting ready for a violent response by their BIB or the third hand.........

 

 

thai police.jpg Police cover the CCTV cameras

 

 

That's actually scary.  Why in the hell would they be covering the cameras?  What are they trying to hide?

 

 

Maybe they are trying to protect the cameras so the fascist supporters can't destroy them with slings.

I'm sure that if a sling shot could break a camera, a plastic bag is not going to protect it.

I can't believe someone could come up with such a pathetic excuse for the police to hide what they were doing.

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