Is a high fence necessary for housing security?

[mikey88]

Hi there... I'm moving a little bit out past Mae Rim. A local area with Thai neighbours . The house is not grand but it's attractive and not shabby either. The lady with whom I'm renovating seems very very insistent that a high (2m.) fence be put around the entire 600 sq m building block.

Whenever we have the discussion, her reasoning is that .."people will break in and steal.."

Not that there's much to steal...a TV and a fridge that's about it...

So my question is this: I'm not stupid or ignorant of that fact that there is crime everywhere in the world...But is it really THAT bad in Thailand? Are physical break ins rife?

Could people with some direct experience please give theior advice as this is a serious question... (the smart Alecs please go to the next post)

The house will have strong locked doors front and back and solid locked shutters downstairs.

Is it essential to have such a high fence as well?

What do you think..I'm open to it but I just wonder if it's not a personal paranoia of hers...

Old Mike

[worgeordie]

A high wall has its plus and cons, if you have dogs it stops them getting out,

also it means people cannot look into your property,and it gives you a feeling of

security (maybe, false).

Cons, if burglars get in to your property ,then they cannot easily be seen by

people passing by,most likely they would do nothing anyway if they seen anything.

A wall any height is the first defense,supported by thorny bushes.

So you take your pick,personal I like high walls,and with prickly trees a good

defensive start,but there are many things yo can easily do to put off the burglar,

leave lights and radio on when you go out at night,Radio in day time, lock your

gate on the INSIDE, put shoes ,a bike out side the door, get security lights fitted,

basically what you are trying to do is get the burglar to go to the house across the

road that looks easier to burgle. it all about time,takes to long to get in will put them

off. its all common sense really,I have been here 25 years in same house without

any problem, while several other people in the Moo Bahn have been turned over.

regards Worgeordie

[Saan]

High fences do not necessarily offer much security. They are easily scaled and afford burglars privacy while they force their way into your home. Certainly you can make your place into a fortress but just a high fence is not going to do much.

[mamborobert]

Certainly having a wall around is common be it built up or semi rural areas. It would not be a big deterrant as they are easy enough to get over and once you are over have the added benefit of obstructing passing folk from viewing what is going on.

I would not think that breaking and entering is such a big deal myself. Laptops, cameras and phones are always opportunistic targets for getting in and out, but for serious money who would knock over a house? If anything yabba related crime gets more money,

Anyhow I don't personally think this is a security or paranoia issue.

I do think that Thais do like to physically see (and for others to see) what is theirs. Security of title ownership is nice anywhere but for a Thai female land and boundaries (to me) take on an extra level of value/importance. To me she is marking out and securing her future (financial) security.

[MESmith]

Maybe she wants the fence to keep you in

[ARISTIDE]

in some cases High fences will attract curiosity and helpful neighbors can't see what happening in your house. Best to have wrought iron fence and install security cameras and burglar alarm. Will cost a bit but worth it. No one can escape motion sensor detection.

Edited December 3, 2013 by ARISTIDE

[davehowden]

A F...g big dog is the best answer. I have a Bangkaew and he scares the daylights out of most non familiar visitors.

[MESmith]

A F...g big dog is the best answer. I have a Bangkaew and he scares the daylights out of most non familiar visitors.

We have 4 FBGs

Oops typo, make that 4 FBDs

Edited December 3, 2013 by MESmith

[davehowden]

A F...g big dog is the best answer. I have a Bangkaew and he scares the daylights out of most non familiar visitors.

We have 4 FBGs

Bloody HiSo!!!!

[Naam]

A F...g big dog is the best answer. I have a Bangkaew and he scares the daylights out of most non familiar visitors.

We have 4 FBGs

Oops typo, make that 4 FBDs

i have two small dogs but they are martial art experts.

[junglechef]

It will keep out just random people taking a walk through your property and perhaps stopping for a quick fish in your pond, not high security risks but can be a little annoying

[Chicog]

Dogs are too easily poisoned and it seems to happen a lot.

But at least while you are burying your pets you'll know someone is casing your pad.

[HaleySabai]

'Out of sight -out of mind' is perhaps the axiom for building high walls thus making it difficult for a kamoee to 'case' your property.

One alternative to an expensive concrete wall is by planting dewarf 'buddha-belly' bamboo ( ไผ่ น้ำเต้า (phai nam tao) this variety produces an extremely gnarly cluster of dense and twisted lower culms that make a pass through near impossible for even a cat. These lower culms are very heavy and hard requiring a serious amount of work to hack ones way through it.The upper growth is thick and dense with a max. height of around 5m. Plant 4ft from your property line and 8ft apart and within 3yrs you will have a beautiful green impenetrable "wall" that will act as a air,noise & sight pollution barrier as well as an effective security parameter.

Bear in mind that this green-wall does require 'maintenance' to keep a desired shape, but in my option is worth it. This may not be practical for your entire property, however,there are many other aesthetically pleasing 'green' solutions to concrete.

In all the years I have lived here the only B&E incident in the soi took place during the rainy season, late at night and the sound of heavy rain covered-up the break where even the soi dogs were silent.

Edited December 3, 2013 by HaleySabai

[hellodolly]

Well judging from these posts I would say it is not necessary. You heard from one poster that has had two in his area and another that has had one.

You did get some good advice on how to protect your refrigerator and TV though. Of course the protection will cost more than the items stolen. In my 7 years here I have never heard of Breaking and Entering being a problem here. Yes it does happen but it does not seem to be a lot.

Go to the nearest police station and inquire of them what the area is like.

One other thing I was wondering if these barriers stop any wind you might experience to help cool the place down.

[nahkit]

'The lady with whom I'm renovating'

I've never heard it called that before

We recently built a new house and my wife is also insisting on us having a large wall around it so its not just your lady friends' paranoia.

A few weeks after we finished building someone tried to kick the back door in around 5 in the morning. My daughter was there alone at the time and it scared the hell out of her. Her car was parked at the front of the house but that didn't seem to bother them.

We now have three dogs as a temporary solution plus a night guard (at a whopping 100 baht a night) whilst I save up for a big wall.

[nivram4491]

'Out of sight -out of mind' is perhaps the axiom for building high walls thus making it difficult for a kamoee to 'case' your property.

One alternative to an expensive concrete wall is by planting dewarf 'buddha-belly' bamboo ( ไผ่ น้ำเต้า (phai nam tao) this variety produces an extremely gnarly cluster of dense and twisted lower culms that make a pass through near impossible for even a cat. These lower culms are very heavy and hard requiring a serious amount of work to hack ones way through it.The upper growth is thick and dense with a max. height of around 5m. Plant 4ft from your property line and 8ft apart and within 3yrs you will have a beautiful green impenetrable "wall" that will act as a air,noise & sight pollution barrier as well as an effective security parameter.

Bear in mind that this green-wall does require 'maintenance' to keep a desired shape, but in my option is worth it. This may not be practical for your entire property, however,there are many other aesthetically pleasing 'green' solutions to concrete.

In all the years I have lived here the only B&E incident in the soi took place during the rainy season, late at night and the sound of heavy rain covered-up the break where even the soi dogs were silent.

Wow, that's really useful information. I have been looking for info of this type for some time.

[WitawatWatawit]

A life-long friend of mine (48 years) who is a registered security expert with the Australian government, gave me some very simple advice. Use the experts, and after you have done doing what they advise, use your own initiative with security devices. The one thing thieves (even pros) can't figure out is your stupidity. Meaning, they look for professional installations, and then often fail to see the amateur's efforts. You do have to be clever, of course.

[Ticketmaster]

It is your decision, but consider these points:

1 Such a wall will be very expensive

2 The woman insisting on it is not unbiased; she hopes to make a bundle building it

3 A 10 meter high wall will not stop anyone intent n getting over it

4 Lights and dogs are more of a deterrent to thieves than walls

5 And my favorite: You do not have much to steal. How many times will you be burgled in your life? How many TV's and fridges can you buy with the money you will pay for sure if you build the wall?

So, if the wall costs 500,000 baht, you could by 10 of the highest end big screen TV's for that money and if you are burgled often, you would always have the latest model!

I do not even lock my doors when I am not home and everybody thinks I am insane. However, I have custom built thermal pane glass entry doors that cost 100,000 baht. Nothing inside my house is worth having them broken.

I lock the doors at night, as my wife would nave it no other way, but most Thai thieves come in when nobody is there.

I have lights all over the yard with motion sensors. If somebody walks in, the whole place lights up like a prison yard.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

A lot of homeowners put broken glass bottles and other sharp bits cemented onto the top of the wall to prevent easy scaling. Also common are wrought iron extensions with pointy bits on top of the wall.

If someone didn't want their wall to look so fortified then could also have dangerous surprises inside the wall like concertina wire etc to discourage someone from coming inside the wall.

High mounted security camera's would also discourage scaling the wall.

Edited December 3, 2013 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[THAIJAMES]

in some cases High fences will attract curiosity and helpful neighbors can't see what happening in your house. Best to have wrought iron fence and install security cameras and burglar alarm. Will cost a bit but worth it. No one can escape motion sensor detection.

I agree, I would also go further that I don't use curtains on the principle that if a burglar can see inside the house and there is nothing to steal he won't break in.

Psychologically, half the motivation is hoping to get something valuable and run fast. If they can't see what they are looking for it lowers the motivation to break in. (The owner has nothing to hide)

Further more, the motion detection systems will turn on when someone is looking in and this will scare them before they have broken in. Finally having cameras some of them fake outside the home (and inside) plus lights that turn on automatically (infra red) when motion is detected outside I think is the best way to prevent problems.

Finally, I use an alarm system connected to a mobile phone so that if the power is cut by the burglar (not hard to do by shorting out an outside plug) I still get a phone call when there is a breach.

[Naam]

Finally, I use an alarm system connected to a mobile phone so that if the power is cut by the burglar (not hard to do by shorting out an outside plug) I still get a phone call when there is a breach.

your home has only one electricity circuit?

[hellodolly]

in some cases High fences will attract curiosity and helpful neighbors can't see what happening in your house. Best to have wrought iron fence and install security cameras and burglar alarm. Will cost a bit but worth it. No one can escape motion sensor detection.

I agree, I would also go further that I don't use curtains on the principle that if a burglar can see inside the house and there is nothing to steal he won't break in.

Psychologically, half the motivation is hoping to get something valuable and run fast. If they can't see what they are looking for it lowers the motivation to break in. (The owner has nothing to hide)

Further more, the motion detection systems will turn on when someone is looking in and this will scare them before they have broken in. Finally having cameras some of them fake outside the home (and inside) plus lights that turn on automatically (infra red) when motion is detected outside I think is the best way to prevent problems.

Finally, I use an alarm system connected to a mobile phone so that if the power is cut by the burglar (not hard to do by shorting out an outside plug) I still get a phone call when there is a breach.

Seems to me unless all your neighbors were guarded like Fort Knox a high elaborate wall would be like a sign saying I have valuables inside.

[onthedarkside]

off topic post removed.

[Loaded]

Live in a good moo bahn and a security fence would never be an issue. I feel safe leaving windows and doors open when popping out for something.

[xen]

A life-long friend of mine (48 years) who is a registered security expert with the Australian government, gave me some very simple advice. Use the experts, and after you have done doing what they advise, use your own initiative with security devices. The one thing thieves (even pros) can't figure out is your stupidity. Meaning, they look for professional installations, and then often fail to see the amateur's efforts. You do have to be clever, of course.

An equally qualified expert on break ins and for the best security are thieves themselves . I can't recomend anybody in your neighbourhood but i am sure if you ask the right questions then you will find some" consultant ". Of course i would change some of his recomendations afterwards so he doesn't have all the security information to come back later.

[Morden]

Walls and fences are certainly amongst the necessary deterrents that should be used but are not enough in themselves. Even the best measures can be overcome but they serve to put off intruders who don't have the tools or time to overcome them or who would make enough noise that the whole neighbourhood would be alerted.

The point is not that you might have little to steal but what would-be intruders think you have. If they can't find the cash and jewellery that they assume you have in large quantities, they may ask you for them in less than friendly terms. Also, fences and walls prevent locals from using your land as a short cut or cow grazing opportunities.

Big dogs are not a suitable measure. As a poster pointed out earlier, they can be poisoned. Moreover, if some innocent but curious child got onto your property he or she could be killed by the brute in moments.

[uptheos]

Keep your important papers in a safe place, expensive jewelry in the house unless it's in a safe is a bit silly, don't hoard cash. Most break in's are opportunistic in and out in 5 minutes and they take what they can scale a wall with i.e phones, MP4 players, laptops, money jewelry. Don't worry about your 60" smart TV or teak three piece suite, they will still be there.

If a wall makes the OP's lady feel safer, nothing will change her mind and if anything happens, no matter how small, he'll never hear the last of it and she will request more than a wall.......and go on and on until she gets what she wants.