Thai wife of deceased German has had pension cancelled

[fxe1200]

As far as I know there is no change in regulations.

If you are able to read German, please have a look to this site:

http://www.vlh.de/krankheit-vorsorge/altersbezuege/witwenrente-die-wichtigsten-fakten.html

If your friend gets the “large widow’s pension” it is based on conditions:

1. incapacitated for work, 2. raising a child under 18 years old, 3. must be over 45 years of age.

The “large widow’s pension” is paid without any time restriction.

So maybe conditions have changed.

But according to your post it seems more than likely that she has just missed to send prove of her confirmation to be still alive.

The above is true, but:

1. The widow has to present a certificate to the pension fund, that she is still alive (Lebensbescheinigung, issued by the honorary consul in Phuket or the embassy in Bangkok) once a year.

2. She is obliged to turn in a tax form, stating, that she is not working (either self employed, or employed) once a year, to keep her pension going in full.

[Beetlejuice]

Crazy idea... How about calling them and asking?

My thoughts exactly, who knows?

There could be a million reasons why this pension from Germany was terminated and all this thread can be is a guessing game.

Best to make inquiries with the pension company directly as none of us have knowledge of the situation and what is actually involved here.

[Bender]

There has been a move this year to stop foreign wives who have never paid any tax or national insurance contributions from getting any rights to claim money based on being married to a European. The UK Government is therefore stopping all payments to Thai wives that have never worked in the UK. If they have worked in the UK, then they will be entitled to their own pension based on how many years they have paid contributions.

for once a very very very good news! and one more:

[bobnuts]

There has been a move this year to stop foreign wives who have never paid any tax or national insurance contributions from getting any rights to claim money based on being married to a European. The UK Government is therefore stopping all payments to Thai wives that have never worked in the UK. If they have worked in the UK, then they will be entitled to their own pension based on how many years they have paid contributions.

I think that only applies to state money. If the widows pension is that due from a private pension the rules can be, and often are, very different.

[mikebell]

There has been a move this year to stop foreign wives who have never paid any tax or national insurance contributions from getting any rights to claim money based on being married to a European. The UK Government is therefore stopping all payments to Thai wives that have never worked in the UK. If they have worked in the UK, then they will be entitled to their own pension based on how many years they have paid contributions.

I think that only applies to state money. If the widows pension is that due from a private pension the rules can be, and often are, very different.

Correct - half my private pension will go to my wife on my wife. My point earlier concerns the fact that this appears to being applied retrospectively. I was under the impression that when I married five years ago, the rules allowed for a state widows pension to be paid. I am in the middle of corresponding with the UK state pension provider but can't quote chapter & verse of what (I thought) were the rules then. I'd be grateful if there are any TV members in the same (retrospective) boat who can assist.

[littleboylost]

Retrospectively? I think you mean retroactively.

[VINCENT2012]

There has been a move this year to stop foreign wives who have never paid any tax or national insurance contributions from getting any rights to claim money based on being married to a European. The UK Government is therefore stopping all payments to Thai wives that have never worked in the UK. If they have worked in the UK, then they will be entitled to their own pension based on how many years they have paid contributions.

This should lead to a reduction in the number of apparent suicides of married Ex-Pats, once they are receiving their pensions. I know of a number of "Black Widows", who have married several Germans in turn, that have died leaving the houses and pensions to their Thai Wives. One Thai woman from my wife's village was actually a lesbian and her friend that lived with them was actually her "Tom" husband. The last time I saw her she had a bar on Soi 8 Patttaya and her 3rd German husband had just died due to "alcoholic poisoning" and she was asking for help to get hold of her German husband's pension from Germany.

I LOVE THIS AMAZING PATTAYA STORY.

For sure the new ELECTED angela merkel government, as i know the germans, when they START OR STOP something...there is always a good reason FOR IT ...

also....perhaps europe is getting fedupto always pay and have understanding human rules and rights for his citizents, also with foreign wifes and others countries like thailand dont actuate the same way.

i really liked to know how much pension does the thai government give to a german wife , married to a dead thai person living now in germany for example?

i don't even understand this post because this thai woman from the post in question should just go to the german ambassy IN BANGKOK instead ..but for sure the problem is that this person is shire to speak, go and ask herself, tipical thai way to be.

good luck anyway!

The life is so good when you get free money every mounth .....isn't it? !!!!

many thai woman love that way.....me too ....but no woman gives me the chance......do u know the word ....no money?

[RamblingSam]

Is it right or left leg first? ...
Ah, first things first, make sure, (a) your not holding your wife/GF's pants, ( You are not holding them back to front ... After that, well, as to which leg first, it doesn't matter at all, but, butting both feet through the same leg-hole, doesn't help matters much when you stand up!!!

[hansnl]

The German pension law is very different from the UK pension laws.

Any comparison between the two is impossible.

My friend in Germany tells me the woman should contact the German embassy or the pension fund (Rentenamt)

If she had Renten for 11 years already, there must be something wrong.

Asking around on the forum does not really help.

Too many different views due to different countries.

Guess only German nationals could reaaly help

[yermanee]

I asked my neighbour who is German and is knowledgeable about matters regarding pension.

The widow of a German national is entitled to a pension but is obliged to deliver proof she is still alive once a year.

The woman in OP should indeed contact the German Pensionfund as another poster mentioned.

Yermanee

[redutedog1]

German Embassy would be a good start

[FiftyTwo]

There has been a move this year to stop foreign wives who have never paid any tax or national insurance contributions from getting any rights to claim money based on being married to a European. The UK Government is therefore stopping all payments to Thai wives that have never worked in the UK. If they have worked in the UK, then they will be entitled to their own pension based on how many years they have paid contributions.

Complete rubbish.

No existing UK pensioners are affected, in future no new claimants without their own NI payments will get UK pensions.

That means no pension for any wife, English, French or Timbucktoo, without them making their own NI payments.

Edited December 21, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[Jerry Cornelius]

There has been a move this year to stop foreign wives who have never paid any tax or national insurance contributions from getting any rights to claim money based on being married to a European. The UK Government is therefore stopping all payments to Thai wives that have never worked in the UK. If they have worked in the UK, then they will be entitled to their own pension based on how many years they have paid contributions.

for once a very very very good news! and one more:

If the respective governments would apply the same exacting rules to some of their own indigenous population, the current situation in those countries may not be so bad and I may not have left my country of birth some time ago.

If the woman in question (just to stay on topic) was married to a guy that conscientiously paid his 'dues', then she should be entitled to her 'dues' as his spouse.

To suggest anything else is pure racism.

Jerry

Jerry.

[Hardened Spanker]

Through the Pensions Bill, the UK Government is seeking to withdraw state pension payments to expat spouses. They will continue to receive a state pension for National Insurance contributions they have made themselves, but not for contributions made by their spouse. This was announced last Spring although there was no suggestion it would be retrospective.. Maybe Germany is doing the same but on a retrospective basis as well.

I am in the middle of a wrangle with UK Gov about the provision of a widows pension for my Thai wife. She has a National Insurance number tho' has never worked in UK. They say she will receive only a Bereavement grant but no pension despite my nearly 40 years of contributions. We married five years ago in Feb. Any one in this situation or can add any info?

Soon to be ex-wife?

[BlueSkyCowboy]

There has been a move this year to stop foreign wives who have never paid any tax or national insurance contributions from getting any rights to claim money based on being married to a European. The UK Government is therefore stopping all payments to Thai wives that have never worked in the UK. If they have worked in the UK, then they will be entitled to their own pension based on how many years they have paid contributions.

This should lead to a reduction in the number of apparent suicides of married Ex-Pats, once they are receiving their pensions. I know of a number of "Black Widows", who have married several Germans in turn, that have died leaving the houses and pensions to their Thai Wives. One Thai woman from my wife's village was actually a lesbian and her friend that lived with them was actually her "Tom" husband. The last time I saw her she had a bar on Soi 8 Patttaya and her 3rd German husband had just died due to "alcoholic poisoning" and she was asking for help to get hold of her German husband's pension from Germany.

You cannot claim several widow's pensions because the widow's pension will be cancelled when the widow marries again.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ XA using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Only if they found out that she is married again

[Hardened Spanker]

The reason why the OP is a "friend of a friend" is quite patently because the Thai lady in question knows full well she should have no claim whatsoever to any money from a country where she's 99.9% certain never to have worked,or paid any monies whatsoever into the country's pension pot!
She probably can't believe she's already got away with it for 11 years and is scared that she'll be asked to pay it all back if she makes the enquiry herself,only in Thailand!

[desertfox]

German pension law for widows who lives outside EU:

1. annual proof that he/she is still alive (certificate of life / Lebensbescheinigung)

2. Proof that you do not have income from work

If by 1 October the life certificate was not returned to the German Pension Service , the payment of the pension is suspended.

If Pension Service hasn't received the life certifiacte by the end of April the following year , the payment of pension will be finally stopped.

German source: http://www.deutsche-rentenversicherung.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/211836/publicationFile/22944/06-Verzug-ins-Auslang_DL.pdf

[easyride]

There has been a move this year to stop foreign wives who have never paid any tax or national insurance contributions from getting any rights to claim money based on being married to a European. The UK Government is therefore stopping all payments to Thai wives that have never worked in the UK. If they have worked in the UK, then they will be entitled to their own pension based on how many years they have paid contributions.

for once a very very very good news! and one more:

Oh wicked! Actually asking for EQUALITY from our dear hosts. You'll expect entry to Govt. parks at the price paid by locals next.

Boots on the other foot for once and this friend of a friend should get off her backside and seek recompense from those that were paying this pension rather than asking for free and probably wrong info from TV. Pensions should be paid because they've been earned not by 20/30/40 year olds marrying antique old men.

[Neeranam]

There has been a move this year to stop foreign wives who have never paid any tax or national insurance contributions from getting any rights to claim money based on being married to a European. The UK Government is therefore stopping all payments to Thai wives that have never worked in the UK. If they have worked in the UK, then they will be entitled to their own pension based on how many years they have paid contributions.

This should lead to a reduction in the number of apparent suicides of married Ex-Pats, once they are receiving their pensions. I know of a number of "Black Widows", who have married several Germans in turn, that have died leaving the houses and pensions to their Thai Wives. One Thai woman from my wife's village was actually a lesbian and her friend that lived with them was actually her "Tom" husband. The last time I saw her she had a bar on Soi 8 Patttaya and her 3rd German husband had just died due to "alcoholic poisoning" and she was asking for help to get hold of her German husband's pension from Germany.

You cannot claim several widow's pensions because the widow's pension will be cancelled when the widow marries again.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ XA using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

How would they know if Thai woman got married again. How would they know she died? I have a friend in his 80s with Alziemers and his wife won't get his pension as they got married after he was 60. What's to stop her not telling anyone if he dies?

[bikerlou47]

My gf was also cancelled!

[personchester]

We don't know the reason for the decline in the German pension payment to the wife, since she received the pension payment previously but no longer know, then matters must be find out.

If the German state has changed foreign pension payment procedures, then the German pension dept would inform the pensioners by letter about the new foreign pension ending after death of the German husband.

Since the wife does not know the reason then she has of course not received an official letter, perhaps the letter was sent, but not received via postage.

There could be another reason, every year the German pension dept sent an application letter about

"Lebenbescheinigung" (Life Certificate) which has to be completed and send back within 30 days if they don't receive it then the payment is stopped.

To sort out the above contact the pension dept in order to find out what is happening.

Contact them via internet on ... www.rentenservice.de

[Jerry Cornelius]

There has been a move this year to stop foreign wives who have never paid any tax or national insurance contributions from getting any rights to claim money based on being married to a European. The UK Government is therefore stopping all payments to Thai wives that have never worked in the UK. If they have worked in the UK, then they will be entitled to their own pension based on how many years they have paid contributions.

This should lead to a reduction in the number of apparent suicides of married Ex-Pats, once they are receiving their pensions. I know of a number of "Black Widows", who have married several Germans in turn, that have died leaving the houses and pensions to their Thai Wives. One Thai woman from my wife's village was actually a lesbian and her friend that lived with them was actually her "Tom" husband. The last time I saw her she had a bar on Soi 8 Patttaya and her 3rd German husband had just died due to "alcoholic poisoning" and she was asking for help to get hold of her German husband's pension from Germany.

You cannot claim several widow's pensions because the widow's pension will be cancelled when the widow marries again.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ XA using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

How would they know if Thai woman got married again. How would they know she died? I have a friend in his 80s with Alziemers and his wife won't get his pension as they got married after he was 60. What's to stop her not telling anyone if he dies?

Regarding a state sponsored pension, it was a true statement. How well the policy is policed is another matter.

Stopping payments after a reasonable period where no active communication has taken place is a sensible and reasonable tactic to utilize.

Few things other than a serious risk of death grab a persons attention and facilitate an appropriate action by that person. Loss of funds is one of them.

If the source (of funding) was from a private pension scheme/provider, why should payments cease if the pension provider was informed of the husbands demise and any respective change to the payment made. Unless of course the wife dies.

It would be reasonable for a check to occur if there was a lack of communication for an extended period of time and I'm sure that this happens in the private sector also.

Jerry

Edited December 21, 2013 by Jerry Cornelius

[personchester]

There has been a move this year to stop foreign wives who have never paid any tax or national insurance contributions from getting any rights to claim money based on being married to a European. The UK Government is therefore stopping all payments to Thai wives that have never worked in the UK. If they have worked in the UK, then they will be entitled to their own pension based on how many years they have paid contributions.

This should lead to a reduction in the number of apparent suicides of married Ex-Pats, once they are receiving their pensions. I know of a number of "Black Widows", who have married several Germans in turn, that have died leaving the houses and pensions to their Thai Wives. One Thai woman from my wife's village was actually a lesbian and her friend that lived with them was actually her "Tom" husband. The last time I saw her she had a bar on Soi 8 Patttaya and her 3rd German husband had just died due to "alcoholic poisoning" and she was asking for help to get hold of her German husband's pension from Germany.

You cannot claim several widow's pensions because the widow's pension will be cancelled when the widow marries again.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ XA using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

How would they know if Thai woman got married again. How would they know she died? I have a friend in his 80s with Alziemers and his wife won't get his pension as they got married after he was 60. What's to stop her not telling anyone if he dies?

Regarding a state sponsored pension, it was a true statement. How well the policy is policed is another matter.

Stopping payments after a reasonable period where no active communication has taken place is a sensible and reasonable tactic to utilize.

Few things other than a serious risk of death grab a persons attention and facilitate an appropriate action by that person. Loss of funds is one of them.

If the source (of funding) was from a private pension scheme/provider, why should payments cease if the pension provider was informed of the husbands demise and any respective change to the payment made. Unless of course the wife dies.

It would be reasonable for a check to occur if there was a lack of communication for an extended period of time and I'm sure that this happens in the private sector also.

Jerry

The German pension dept sent every year an application form to obtain confirmation that the pension receiver is still alive.

The application form must be confirmed and signed by official authorities, or lawyers, and before they confirm the application as being correct they have to meet the pension holder and his wife.

Should the husband die, then the wife get the pension, should she married again then that has to be applied to the annual application form because those that sign the form will ask prove of any new details, if she comes alone then they will ask for her ID card to see her surname in order to know whether she married again, that will then be entered on the form and her pension will cease.

If she does not marry again and keeps the new chap as a boyfriend, then she is regarded as a widow and the pension payment will continue.

[Ulic]

Through the Pensions Bill, the UK Government is seeking to withdraw state pension payments to expat spouses. They will continue to receive a state pension for National Insurance contributions they have made themselves, but not for contributions made by their spouse. This was announced last Spring although there was no suggestion it would be retrospective.. Maybe Germany is doing the same but on a retrospective basis as well.

I am in the middle of a wrangle with UK Gov about the provision of a widows pension for my Thai wife. She has a National Insurance number tho' has never worked in UK. They say she will receive only a Bereavement grant but no pension despite my nearly 40 years of contributions. We married five years ago in Feb. Any one in this situation or can add any info?

I don't mean to be insensitive but what happens if your death goes unreported does the British government keep depositing

your pension into your bank account?

[ClareQuilty]

Thanks everyone for all your help. I don't know the lady in question, she is a friend of my respected Thai colleague, and my researching of the matter is a favor to him.

[hanuman2543]

There has been a move this year to stop foreign wives who have never paid any tax or national insurance contributions from getting any rights to claim money based on being married to a European. The UK Government is therefore stopping all payments to Thai wives that have never worked in the UK. If they have worked in the UK, then they will be entitled to their own pension based on how many years they have paid contributions.

This should lead to a reduction in the number of apparent suicides of married Ex-Pats, once they are receiving their pensions. I know of a number of "Black Widows", who have married several Germans in turn, that have died leaving the houses and pensions to their Thai Wives. One Thai woman from my wife's village was actually a lesbian and her friend that lived with them was actually her "Tom" husband. The last time I saw her she had a bar on Soi 8 Patttaya and her 3rd German husband had just died due to "alcoholic poisoning" and she was asking for help to get hold of her German husband's pension from Germany.

You cannot claim several widow's pensions because the widow's pension will be cancelled when the widow marries again.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ XA using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

How would they know if Thai woman got married again. How would they know she died? I have a friend in his 80s with Alziemers and his wife won't get his pension as they got married after he was 60. What's to stop her not telling anyone if he dies?

Because the widow has to proof on a regular basis that she hasn't married again. There is a central family register in BKK where you can ask for such a confirmation.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ XA using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Estrada]

There has been a move this year to stop foreign wives who have never paid any tax or national insurance contributions from getting any rights to claim money based on being married to a European. The UK Government is therefore stopping all payments to Thai wives that have never worked in the UK. If they have worked in the UK, then they will be entitled to their own pension based on how many years they have paid contributions.

I think that only applies to state money. If the widows pension is that due from a private pension the rules can be, and often are, very different.

Yes, I was referring to the state pension.

[Estrada]

Through the Pensions Bill, the UK Government is seeking to withdraw state pension payments to expat spouses. They will continue to receive a state pension for National Insurance contributions they have made themselves, but not for contributions made by their spouse. This was announced last Spring although there was no suggestion it would be retrospective.. Maybe Germany is doing the same but on a retrospective basis as well.

I am in the middle of a wrangle with UK Gov about the provision of a widows pension for my Thai wife. She has a National Insurance number tho' has never worked in UK. They say she will receive only a Bereavement grant but no pension despite my nearly 40 years of contributions. We married five years ago in Feb. Any one in this situation or can add any info?

I don't mean to be insensitive but what happens if your death goes unreported does the British government keep depositing

your pension into your bank account?

This is exactly what had been happening, and is the reason why you will in future have to inform them each year that you are still alive or they will automatically stop payments.

[mikebell]

My pension is paid into my UK bank. I have grown up children who will administrate my affairs. No one has taken me up on the question of when the Widow's Pension rules changed?

Through the Pensions Bill, the UK Government is seeking to withdraw state pension payments to expat spouses. They will continue to receive a state pension for National Insurance contributions they have made themselves, but not for contributions made by their spouse. This was announced last Spring although there was no suggestion it would be retrospective.. Maybe Germany is doing the same but on a retrospective basis as well.

I am in the middle of a wrangle with UK Gov about the provision of a widows pension for my Thai wife. She has a National Insurance number tho' has never worked in UK. They say she will receive only a Bereavement grant but no pension despite my nearly 40 years of contributions. We married five years ago in Feb. Any one in this situation or can add any info?

I don't mean to be insensitive but what happens if your death goes unreported does the British government keep depositing

your pension into your bank account?

This is exactly what had been happening, and is the reason why you will in future have to inform them each year that you are still alive or they will automatically stop payments.

[taqila]

A friend in Pattaya, a Thai widow of 20 plus year marriage to a German receives two German pensions (Military and Civilian) and as long as she remains unmarried her pension will continue for her life. She is early 50's. I would inquire at the German Embassy.