Abducting my own son

[nontabury]

If you have a lot of assets in Thailand why take the route of kidnapping when you can afford a good lawyer.

Take the legal route and you and your child will also be able to return to Thailand in a later stage. The child will want to know his Thai family when he gets older.

Money is a powerfull tool.

Beware of bangkok lawyers as many will charge exorbitant fees to handle a case. fees can be equal to or higher then even lawyers in developed countries. they do this knowing you are emotional and often willing to pay whatever they ask. in addition they bill you for travel time to and from upcountry (also expensive) in my opinion and actual experience you can be better off with a reputable local attorney. local attorneys tend to know the local players involved and often judges are on friendly basis. evidence is evidence and law is law. so you may need an interpreter but that still costs agreat deal less then many a bkk firm.

While agreeing with the first part of your reply, I totally disagree with your suggestion regarding a reputable local attorney, 99% of Thai lawyers are completely bent, while they are taking money from you to represent YOU, they are just as likely to be accepting inducements from the other side to make sure you don't win. As I've already suggested the OP would be better placed to have a word with Sebastian at essarn lawyers in korrat.

I suggested a reputable local attorney but you totally disagree with this suggestion and then amazingly you contradict yourself and continue to re-iterate contacting a "local upcountry law firm in korat"

I thought that in naming "Sebastion" that you would realise that I was referring to a farang not a Thai, that is the big difference, not that all foreign lawyers attached to Thai law firms can always be relied upon, but mostly they can be. Unfortunately the same cannot be said of most Thai lawyers.

[atyclb]

nontabury

Perhaps you do not consider my observation meaningful in that Mr Sebastian does not have a thai license to practice law but depends on upcountry local thai lawyers as they can legally practice law.

Therefore it is a thai lawyer local upcountry practice with with a non thailand licensed foreign attorney.

I.m not claiming applicable but i my actual experience with a so called english speaking thai legal firm in bkk. about 250 usd for a 30 minute consultation. there were 2 males present besides me. one was supposedly the thai lawyer the other one was the farang stepfather. the thai lawyer barely opened his mouth. it was the farang that addressed all my questions and advised. despite me asking him clearly several times if he was a lawyer back home he evaded a direct answer to my question. he would only say something like director or managing director. through subsequent consultation with other thai attorneys i learned this guys advice was similar to what "barstool advice" would have yielded. i later learned the guy giving this advice was basically perhaps a bachelor degreed wannabe in another country that reinvented himself in thailand. it seems theres no lack of people on the run from something somewhere that end up in thailand. i guess buyer beware.

Edited January 13, 2014 by atyclb

[cjchaos]

1/It depends if your own country is a signature to The Hague convention, and if it upholds that agreement. 2/ in some countries such as the UK there are groups( financed by the tax payer) who will assist your wife in any way possible to obtain a court order, forcing you to return your child to her. In other European countries, such as Germany there are no such organisations,and I'm not sure if the governments of those counties would strictly abide by the rules.

I think the first thing you should do is to think where your child would be best to be brought up.

There are many things to take into consideration. Who will take care of the child, what educational option will be available, are just two amongst many.

This is misleading. There is no Hague convention in force between UK and Thailand, this works both ways. This also means No legal aid would be available also for the Thai mother. I don't think legal aid is required for serious enough offenses though. If the OP was from UK, as he is not married to the mother he would have no right over the child so this is the only reason he could be prosecuted, the reason is because unmarried fathers have no automatic legal right over a child in the UK. This is a law that is the same in the UK and Thailand. A legally binding order in the Thailand may not be recognized in the UK and she may get suspicious if you try and have the order made through the UK courts rather than a Thai court. You should really seek legal advice though.

Edited February 7, 2014 by cjchaos

[Mario2008]

Thailand and the UK are both party to the convention.

The way the convention works is that the "central authority" of one country informs the "central authorithy" of the other country and action is taken. Problem is enforcement in Thailand regarding children with Thai nationality.

[cjchaos]

Thailand and the UK are both party to the convention.

The way the convention works is that the "central authority" of one country informs the "central authorithy" of the other country and action is taken. Problem is enforcement in Thailand regarding children with Thai nationality.

Just because UK and Thailand are both party doesn't mean it can be used between those two nations.

Thailand has signed the 1980 Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of Child Abduction but the UK has not yet been able to enter into treaty relations with Thailand. This mean the Convention does not operate between the UK and Thailand. However, the Convention may be in effect between Thailand and other countries.

Source:https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/147861/Child_Abduction_Thailand.pdf

It is the same for child abduction to Thailand from UK and Thailand to UK, matter for the family courts.

Edited February 7, 2014 by cjchaos

[slipperylobster]

Two years ago, I had an American Friend, in Chiang Mai, who bought a ticket for him, and his two children (one half Thai and one Half Filipino) and just left from Chiang Mai. I think he flew in to Kuala Lumpur.

The story goes, he purchased the tickets in advance, had all the passports, then picked up the kids at school early....in order to be out of the country before school let out.

The mother of the youngest (half thai boy, disabled and of the age of 3) called me and cried. I sort of knew, but what could I do? They made it out with no problem

My buddy told me she was abusive toward s the 3 year old and would spank him for soiling his clothes just before going to school. The other one as about 10, smart as a whip, had a filipina mom that he had to get away from. That boy was sexually abused by relatives of my buddies' Isaan gal.

Seems like, as he told me, just needed the two passports. She might have been able to stop him, if she knew. But as the dad, he was able to fly out with both.

[slipperylobster]

On the lawyer thing.... you may just end up being tied up in a long court case...with absolutely no chances of winning in the near future. She will swoop on you, and hide out for sure. Child cases might be more like paying ransom. My bud took his chances and just flew out. he made it. Thats all I will say. He left no traces, but I am sure he made it all the way to the States and this gal had no resources or will to file a complaint. Your case may be different, if the mom files a complaint/hires legal aid/consults with your Embassy.

I left my son in the Philippines....I spent 8 years trying to work something out with his mom. She is holding both passports. Yeah, I can fly him out with tax exemption using both passports. I could say the US passport was lost, but I cannot get him the Philippine Passport. I decided to leave him with his mom, and support him the best I could. He grew up very wise, and smart...inspite of the mom. Sometimes you hope for the best. My son still says I am an "Awesome" Dad, and in 3 years...will accompany me to the U.S., else, the support stops.

I could not raise him as he turned out...even in the USA. I am actually in shock of how smart he is there in the PI. Number one in the school, well dressed, well liked, many hobbies, happy (albeit poorer than most kids in the USA). He copied everything I have done.

In other words, I never really lost him. Think it over good.

[Netease]

What you have to do is go either way. Make a choice and make no compromise. Full custody and the mother has no access or don't see the child at all. Having access to the child will just give the mother power and the child will become her own personal "Tdoa Pragan". There will be exceptions, but this is the rule. That path will try very hard to destroy your life. You can't get full legal custody with no rights for access for the mother, if you stay in Thailand with the child. No court will grant that and that is the reason I finally gave up. Even if I was successful in full custody, I could never keep the mother away.

The way I played it was to try for one year for full custody and when that failed, I walked away and never saw her again. I refused to pay for anything other than my daughter's education, as if I provided a monthly income, I would never get custody. After 8 years, when it eventually sunk in that my daughter was not really worth much to her, I got custody. The advantage of getting custody at 8 years old is that as a child at that age cannot be controlled by the mother.

The disadvantage is the old Jesuit saying.."give me the boy until the age of seven, and I'll give you the man" ...well it is the same with girls. As we live in Thailand, it will be too late to change her, so we'll have to head for the UK for two to three years.

I could have just left the whole thing alone, but we Westerners aren't like that (with some exceptions)....

Speaking from someone with 40 years custody experience, walk away you will save grief for you and your child if the child survives he will find you when of age, forget any form of legals. If you don't you will be destroyed

On this subject there has been a load of real good advice.

But I think Netease has brought it to the point.Thank you for that.

And for you, emibel1, if you're not a troll, my best wishes.

Take care not being destroyed.

W.

When a mother mentally destroys children every day to get at the farther you have no choice but to walk away

[Netease]

Emibel1 I would be interested to know what you did and how things turned out