Caretaker PM Yingluck warns of third party interference

[tingtongteesood]

no doubt there will be hardcore elements of the yellow shirt anti goverment protesters popping up to instigate violence.

the unspoken goal of sutheps movement is to bring the country to a dead(literally) end, and to "force" a coup.

a 3rd party will create those conditions.

no doubt there will be hardcore elements of the yellow shirt anti goverment protesters popping up to instigate violence.

the unspoken goal of sutheps movement is to bring the country to a dead(literally) end, and to "force" a coup.

a 3rd party will create those conditions.

I would not put it past the yellows to sacrafice a few of their own followers and incite violence as they desperately need the military to move in to be successful!

The same old bs from the same old trolls, as sadly anticipated...MUCH more likely undercover reds would start something. Suthep does NOT want violence as this would lose a lot of people's support for his cause.

The amount of total bs rhetoric from the red misted ones is astounding as ever !

Edited January 9, 2014 by tingtongteesood

[Emster23]

I think it would be useful to look at 3rd party issue like a potential crime, with standard questions of means, motive and opportunity. Both sides have means and opportunity, so big difference is in motive. What motive might YS et al have to incite violence against protestors? Little to none I would think. Overall they have shown remarkable restraint against the protestors, much to annoyance of Suthep and others. Protestors are running out of options, can't seem to provoke the army (their long time friends and cronies) to wade into this mess. If violence and spark more violence, this would give the "go" card to army to step in and "restore order", have a coup and then the unelected Suthep and his old rich friends will be back with things just the way they want. And go after corruption on the red side while ignoring all that goes on and has gone on for so long on his side. Back to business as usual.

[Baerboxer]

How much has she paid the Red shirts (undercover) to interfere?

How much have Suthep's people paid people to post false and malicious statements of Thai Visa?

Take the hint. Stop spreading lies.

How do you know its a lie? Or the truth?

You don't. He was speculating, which he's perfectly entitled to do on an open forum.

You are trying to deny him this right based on suppressing speculations or views you don't like. Bit like PTP often do,

[Mr Yim]

I sense the Suthips supporters on TV are getting more and more desparate now, as the end game is being played out. PM Yingluck has walked the political tightrope intelligently throughout the crisis and has demonstrated that she has matured as a good PM. It is my opinion that there will be no coup, Yingluck will be relected as PM and Suthep will make an indignified escape to another far off shore. Hopefully, the protests will not have been in vain and the next government will respect the will of the people* and everyone will live happily ever after - at least until the next attempt to over throw the government.

*the people being red, yellow and any other colour shirts you like.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Mr Yim

[TVGerry]

I sense the Suthips supporters on TV are getting more and more desparate now, as the end game is being played out. PM Yingluck has walked the political tightrope intelligently throughout the crisis and has demonstrated that she has matured as a good PM. It is my opinion that there will be no coup, Yingluck will be relected as PM and Suthep will make an indignified escape to another far off shore. Hopefully, the protests will not have been in vain and the next government will respect the will of the people* and everyone will live happily ever after - at least until the next attempt to over throw the government.

*the people being red, yellow and any other colour shirts you like.

And don't forget about Santa Claus and the tooth fairy!

[tilac2]

Back to current scenario, I don't see why delaying the election time would make any difference? Also, it won't be Bangkokians that are involved with the violence for the most part. It'll be the hardcore - the technical students, the rubber formers, the PAD veterans - same deal as PAD in 08 basically. These guys could just protest peacefully and it'd have zero effect. Only way they can win is to create a chaotic situation. Or tell me how else you think they could effect this Council?

I don't think Suthep himself believes in the possibility of establishing any sort of people's council as such. It's just empty talk. No one is going to let him have any meaningful position in the future Thai government. He is already history. The best way out of this mess, is another coup with a technocrat government in place. Competent people from all sides involved. And really, Thai judiciary, Thai Army and Thai Police need to toughen up and send considerable number of the current politicians to prison for a long, long time. Either they set an example, or the country is going to the dogs. Thailand is in a mess today, only because thugs and terrorists from 2010 and were let off the hook and not punished accordingly. Actually, they were not punished at all, they were rewarded for their criminal actions and terrorism against their own people and their own state.

Oh dear Mr Mackie please give us a break.

You say: "The best way out of this mess is another coup".

But we've already had coup after coup after coup after coup after coup after coup in this country.

And yet this country is meant to be a constitutional monarchy - since the 1930s.

Why this coup obsession?

How about forgetting the coup thing and trying democracy, as is the national plan?

In case you don't know, Democracy means that the people elect the government, and if the government screws up then the electors have the chance to throw them out.

Have you heard of this idea? We have tried it in western Europe, in north America and in many other parts of the world.

Word is that it works quite well.

[Skywalker69]

no doubt there will be hardcore elements of the yellow shirt anti goverment protesters popping up to instigate violence.

the unspoken goal of sutheps movement is to bring the country to a dead(literally) end, and to "force" a coup.

a 3rd party will create those conditions.

I would not put it past the yellows to sacrafice a few of their own followers and incite violence as they desperately need the military to move in to be successful!

Ah, you mean just like in 2010? Oh, that was the other side.

Remember the famous lie - "I will be there standing next to you when the first bullet is fired".

The losers are always the Thai people - who are lied to and used by the two rival factions vying for power and control. The light, at the end of a very very long tunnel is that younger educated people, from working and middle class backgrounds are waking up and realizing there needs fundamental changes to get the country out of this downward spiral. I know many who voted PTP who now despise this inept corrupt regime, particularly for the lies and deceit. They will never trust a Shinawatra again. But they also know the Dems are totally reactionary and happy to march the country backwards with a class based voting system that would resemble 18th century Britain.

Quite frankly, the military seems the only stable organization currently on the playing field. Sad, but that's how it is until some of these younger Thais start to do more than just talk.

Threats and the use of mysterious 3rd hand / party / men in black is a favored tactic of one key player - anyone who has been in Thailand a long time will no exactly who that is.

Remember the famous lie - "I will be there standing next to you when the first bullet is fired".

And then he went shopping in Paris with one of his daughters.

[moonao]

I sense the Suthips supporters on TV are getting more and more desparate now, as the end game is being played out. PM Yingluck has walked the political tightrope intelligently throughout the crisis and has demonstrated that she has matured as a good PM. It is my opinion that there will be no coup, Yingluck will be relected as PM and Suthep will make an indignified escape to another far off shore. Hopefully, the protests will not have been in vain and the next government will respect the will of the people* and everyone will live happily ever after - at least until the next attempt to over throw the government.

*the people being red, yellow and any other colour shirts you like.

good post.

[moonao]

How much has she paid the Red shirts (undercover) to interfere? width=19 alt=whistling.gif pagespeed_url_hash=3700464609>

How much have Suthep's people paid people to post false and malicious statements of Thai Visa?

Take the hint. Stop spreading lies.

It's not just ThaiVisa, Sadly theres evidence of a lot going on in social media. Also, the yellow shirts are attacking and beating up reporters who dont (exaggerate protester numbers in one case) report what suthep wants them to report. Foreign and thai journalists.

The intolerance of Sutheps followers is reflected quite well here on Thai visa.

But I agree, it must stop.

[Emptyset]

no doubt there will be hardcore elements of the yellow shirt anti goverment protesters popping up to instigate violence.

the unspoken goal of sutheps movement is to bring the country to a dead(literally) end, and to "force" a coup.

a 3rd party will create those conditions.

Finally we agree on something! Glad you've seen the light, tingtong. Some still refuse to acknowledge the truth when it's staring them in the face.

[Emptyset]

Ah, you mean just like in 2010? Oh, that was the other side.

Remember the famous lie - "I will be there standing next to you when the first bullet is fired".

The losers are always the Thai people - who are lied to and used by the two rival factions vying for power and control. The light, at the end of a very very long tunnel is that younger educated people, from working and middle class backgrounds are waking up and realizing there needs fundamental changes to get the country out of this downward spiral. I know many who voted PTP who now despise this inept corrupt regime, particularly for the lies and deceit. They will never trust a Shinawatra again. But they also know the Dems are totally reactionary and happy to march the country backwards with a class based voting system that would resemble 18th century Britain.

Quite frankly, the military seems the only stable organization currently on the playing field. Sad, but that's how it is until some of these younger Thais start to do more than just talk.

Threats and the use of mysterious 3rd hand / party / men in black is a favored tactic of one key player - anyone who has been in Thailand a long time will no exactly who that is.

Look, I wouldn't put it past Thaksin to use a 'third hand' if it would benefit him. As we all agree, he did so in 2010, being willing to endanger the lives of not just the military, but his own supporters too. Yet he's not the only one capable of that. It's a well known tactic during protest history. Suthep himself doesn't even need to know or be aware of the plan to use provocateurs (just like I believe the red shirt leaders in 2010 weren't aware, or at least fully aware of what was going on), it could easily be arranged by one of his powerful backers or someone who stands to gain - and there are many who stand to gain - from chaos and the military intervention that results from it. You have to look at who gains. If things are peaceful, nothing happens, protesters eventually get bored and go home (there's only so long you can maintain a peaceful protest which is at the same time disruptive). If there's a few clashes thrown in, people's emotions remain high and they're committed to the cause.

Go back through to the Wikileaks. Look at Sondhi's interview for the Asia Times. Sondhi's backers in 06, according to him, wanted to see blood to speed things up. The only reason the red shirts didn't profit from deaths in 2010 is they didn't have the backing of the BKK middle class, the military or the elites. The violence backfired. For Suthep though, it's the opposite. People associated with his group have already very likely killed one cop, three red shirts, beat a taxi driver half to death (one red shirt they captured and beat up at Ramkhamhaeng is still unable to eat solid food), yet the middle class backers are still insisting the movement is peaceful and blaming the government. They'll never take responsibility. Thaksin is the only one capable of evil. And that justifies everything that happens.

You see, I don't think one side is more evil than the other in this respect. That's facile. Just I believe there are people on both sides, in the leadership anyway, who will do whatever they can get away with if they believe it will hasten victory. It's just, looking at the pragmatics of the situation, the government has to be far, far more careful in using violence than the anti-govt side does.

[Emptyset]

If calling something a war room isn't a provocation then what is it? Because the Dems did it in 2009 makes it ok now? It was wrong then & equally wrong now.

I discard sources based on their underlying theme of supporting one side or the other - not on just one or two articles. Pratachai fits that criteria. As for Voranai, he writes about 1 sensible article for every 10 printed (he manages to do somersaults, head-stands, and contradictions all in one article).

As for Suthep and the protestors justifying violence - that depends on your version of violence. My version is attacking, intimidating, & instigating attacks on people. None of what Suthep has planned fits that definition. I just don't buy the invading buildings peacefully, cutting off water or power and asking bureauocrats to stop work as violence. I will admit that the 'students' group may have other ideas of a violent sort - but that's not what Capo is admitting.

I just think it's just normal to call a strategy room a war room.

'Launching the party's "war-room", the Labour leader will set out plans to shake up the Opposition's electoral strategy by using US-style techniques and putting social media and grassroots work at the centre of the campaign.' http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/wider-political-news/miliband-prepares-labour-for-battle.22811110

(Very provocative from Milliband. Maybe he is a Marxist after all! Violent revolution obviously on the cards!)

Jokes aside, although Suthep has preached peace, surely we've seen enough evidence that when the situation becomes heated it becomes far from peaceful? They were only able to 'invade' the buildings they invaded peacefully when the police stood down under government orders. Before that, there were clashes with the police, with battles ranging through to the middle of the night. Remember when the student group clashed with police at Govt House until 2 or 3 am and several police vans got torched? Government blamed a third hand for that, when if they wanted to paint the protesters as violent, surely they'd have just blamed it on them? Even at Ramkhamhaeng, where it's clear the students were violent - and there's plenty of evidence - Chaturon attributed the violence to a 'force majeure'. They don't seem to be trying very hard to be painting Suthep's group (or even, as you say, the student group) as violent if that's supposed to be the game plan.

I could go back through the Democrat statements during March 09, and March 10 and find statements - like the one from Dr Bunaraj above - which seem far more along the lines of the 'threatening' and 'fear mongering' that people are accusing this government of. I was expecting more of it from this government, but it's been less than I thought and there seems to have been more of an attempt to downplay the threat of violence and disruption than the opposite. Of course, you get some hotheads like Chalerm who think it's best to do the opposite. Bringing him back in was a mistake, although I doubt he'll have as much as a role as he's lead people to believe.

Also, though most of Suthep's statements have been preaching peace, not violence (but then so were a lot of the red shirt's statements in 2010, frankly, bar the obvious ones that have been replayed ad infinitum from Arisman and Nattawud - there was a lot of stuff about how they needed to stay peaceful, that it was a peaceful fight and that kind of thing), he knows he doesn't need to get the middle class worked up and ready for a fight. In fact that works against him. If I were running the anti-govt strategy, I'd want the majority of my protesters to remain peaceful, while any violence is carried out by a hardcore group, which, if it comes down to it, we could say we have no control over. Which is actually pretty much what the red shirts did...

And Suthep is also using another rhetorical tactic of the red shirts, mixing talk of peace, with obviously 'nak leng' threats, just last night there was a good example of this:

Sanitsuda Ekachai ‏@sanitsuda 9h

Suthep said prayer books will be distributed to protestors. If attacked, just sit down and do the prayer, he added.

Sanitsuda Ekachai ‏@sanitsuda 9h

Suthep: What kind of interior minister to go on stage of the reds? When you're a traitor, what village heads and kamnans will listen to you?

Sanitsuda Ekachai ‏@sanitsuda 9h

Suthep calls Charupong a lot of names, ie. ai khon rayam. "You're lower than "hia." We'll soon go your house, to put our feet on your face.

So on the one hand, they're completely peaceful and will sit quietly reading prayer books if attacked. Yet on the other, they're going to trample Charupong's face. lol.

Anyway, being realistic again, how peaceful do you think it will remain if:

Sanitsuda Ekachai ‏@sanitsuda 9h

Suthep is repeating his Bkk shutdown plans again. Bus lanes open, taxis with national flags will be allowed to pass through.

So when a taxi tries to get past them without a national flag (it's unlikely that all the red shirt taxi drivers will go along with that even if they feel intimidated), what are they going to do? That's a situation ripe for mob violence if there ever was one.

[timber]

Can her brother be considered a fourth party?

[Somtamnication]

Let me figure this one out:

Party number 1, herself.

Party number 2, Suthep.

Party number 3, ............... drum roll............................ THAKSIN!

[GeorgeO]

Caretaker PM Yingluck warns of third party interference

Now that is the epitome of irony ... "third party interference" ... yes, his name is Thaksin and he lives in Dubai...!!

[mmh8]

yes I heard she is trying to stand up to older brother, but is unable

[GeorgeO]

How much has she paid the Red shirts (undercover) to interfere? width=19 alt=whistling.gif pagespeed_url_hash=3700464609>

How much have Suthep's people paid people to post false and malicious statements of Thai Visa?

Take the hint. Stop spreading lies.

It's not just ThaiVisa, Sadly theres evidence of a lot going on in social media. Also, the yellow shirts are attacking and beating up reporters who dont (exaggerate protester numbers in one case) report what suthep wants them to report. Foreign and thai journalists.

The intolerance of Sutheps followers is reflected quite well here on Thai visa.

But I agree, it must stop.

...that would be as compared to the peace-loving, tolerant red shirt supporters, right...?!

[JohnP1752]

It's highly likely that Suthep will order his supporters to start killing each other in order to blame someone else. This is when the army will act to help him put the final nail in the coffin for YL.

[Old Man River]

Yes let's hope there aren't more of your unidentified black clothed armed policemen on rooftops. Oh and let's not forget the armed policemen high on drugs also.

Are you serious?

Are you incapable of reading the news thread?

It has been admitted that the "men in dark clothing" on the roof of the Labour Ministry were actually policemen.

A policeman was arrested for carrying a gun and carrying drugs. There was nothing AFAIAA to say that he was high, however.

Fab4 you really need to look at both sides of the coin, like so many of the people dragging this country down ...people on BOTH sides, that is.

And now YL has trusted Chalerm to oversee security for the shutdown. And says she is now worried.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Thait Spot]

It's highly likely that Suthep will order his supporters to start killing each other in order to blame someone else. This is when the army will act to help him put the final nail in the coffin for YL.

There are several screws loose in that logic

[JohnP1752]

It's highly likely that Suthep will order his supporters to start killing each other in order to blame someone else. This is when the army will act to help him put the final nail in the coffin for YL.

There are several screws loose in that logic

Not if you've been in Thailand for a while

[77Dan]

It doesn't take a genius to work out who benefits from bloodshed at the moment and it isn't Yingluck, Thaksin or the Red Shirts but those hoping for another coup.

[Maha Sarakham Marty]

How much has she paid the Red shirts (undercover) to interfere?

How much have Suthep's people paid people to post false and malicious statements of Thai Visa?Take the hint.

Speaking of taking hints...

Removed a post (and responses) that claimed others were paid to post. If you have any actual evidence please forward it to support. If it's just a lame debating tactic, further references like that may find you without posting rights.

[Trouble]

It looks to me like the quotes attributed to the PM were a result of questions by reporters rather than a speech and therefore the context of the remarks as always when reported by the Bangkok press is questionable at best. She only stated the fact that outside agitators might try and create untoward incidents which might hinder peaceful demonstrations. It looks to me that she has done her best to allow the protestors to have peaceful demonstrations and hopes they will stay that way. Why the continuing criticism of her every word. Understanding that many here do not like the woman or her brother her statements reveal nothing but hope for peaceful demonstrations and she in fact says she is responsive to dialogue and cooperation. If I was her I would personally seek demands from the other side which could be discussed. In doing so she would make Suthep step up to the plate and then the press could report accurately what exactly he wants. I would like to know exactly how Suthep wants to change the constitution so things can be rigged in his favor so the Democrats can win the vote. Isn't that really his bottom line?

[AleG]

I think it would be useful to look at 3rd party issue like a potential crime, with standard questions of means, motive and opportunity. Both sides have means and opportunity, so big difference is in motive. What motive might YS et al have to incite violence against protestors? Little to none I would think. Overall they have shown remarkable restraint against the protestors, much to annoyance of Suthep and others. Protestors are running out of options, can't seem to provoke the army (their long time friends and cronies) to wade into this mess. If violence and spark more violence, this would give the "go" card to army to step in and "restore order", have a coup and then the unelected Suthep and his old rich friends will be back with things just the way they want. And go after corruption on the red side while ignoring all that goes on and has gone on for so long on his side. Back to business as usual.

Thaksin (let's cut all the middle men here) has a very good incentive to peddle the threat of violence erupting during the protests as a way of scaring people away from joining in.

They are trying to scare people away by predicting violence, by threatening with legal punishment (from death penalty for treason down), with predictions of financial damage, etc, etc...

They are using fear to keep people from protesting against them, it's quite obvious.

[rubl]

It looks to me like the quotes attributed to the PM were a result of questions by reporters rather than a speech and therefore the context of the remarks as always when reported by the Bangkok press is questionable at best. She only stated the fact that outside agitators might try and create untoward incidents which might hinder peaceful demonstrations. It looks to me that she has done her best to allow the protestors to have peaceful demonstrations and hopes they will stay that way. Why the continuing criticism of her every word. Understanding that many here do not like the woman or her brother her statements reveal nothing but hope for peaceful demonstrations and she in fact says she is responsive to dialogue and cooperation. If I was her I would personally seek demands from the other side which could be discussed. In doing so she would make Suthep step up to the plate and then the press could report accurately what exactly he wants. I would like to know exactly how Suthep wants to change the constitution so things can be rigged in his favor so the Democrats can win the vote. Isn't that really his bottom line?

"Police should try harder to arrest "third hand" agent provocateurs in order to prevent violence at the planned Bangkok shutdown, said a key member of Peace Witness, a group whose volunteers monitor whether protests are staged in a peaceful manner.

Pairin Jotisakulratana, a key member of Peace Witness, told The Nation yesterday that there are agent provocateurs among the protesters who will not listen to the protest leaders and who are determined to ensure that a violent confrontation occurs."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/695532-thai-police-must-crack-down-on-third-hand-agent-provocateurs/

[aimbc]

It looks to me like the quotes attributed to the PM were a result of questions by reporters rather than a speech and therefore the context of the remarks as always when reported by the Bangkok press is questionable at best. She only stated the fact that outside agitators might try and create untoward incidents which might hinder peaceful demonstrations. It looks to me that she has done her best to allow the protestors to have peaceful demonstrations and hopes they will stay that way. Why the continuing criticism of her every word. Understanding that many here do not like the woman or her brother her statements reveal nothing but hope for peaceful demonstrations and she in fact says she is responsive to dialogue and cooperation. If I was her I would personally seek demands from the other side which could be discussed. In doing so she would make Suthep step up to the plate and then the press could report accurately what exactly he wants. I would like to know exactly how Suthep wants to change the constitution so things can be rigged in his favor so the Democrats can win the vote. Isn't that really his bottom line?

It seems like everyone has come to believe that YS is a saint of some sort. Basically she is probably the innocent party in all of this. I wonder if she can even answer basic question about the rice scheme, accept to say that it helped the poor farmer. Beyond that she has no idea of the enourmous burden she has placed upon the nation. And the corruption going on at every level. And breaking the law, in which she was an accomplist to.

She has put this country and democracy at a point of no return. Abusing the system as it s clearly seen and yelling the fundamental of election as the basis of her existence. Again as I said many times in my postng, if election is the fundamental to democracy, then honesty and ethical behaviour must also follow suit. What she needs to do is prove to everyone that the government did their best for the people by being transparent about everything and that there was no corruption involved.

Now for those favoring election before reform, I ask you, will the government abide by this fundamental of democracy. Allow the public to audit the different project before election? Allow transparency and be accountable. Until, most of the important aspect of democracy, such as honesty and transparancy has been met, thailand will never see peace.

This is what makes this such a difficult time for all supporter of democracy. For all the things this government has done in the name of democracy, I don't think it can be a true democracy if they continue to get what they want and not care about anyone else.

[Yunla]

Caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra today expressed concern about possible infiltration by a third party when people take to the streets en masse to paralyse Thailand’s capital Monday.

This is inevitable, and also so many factions within those third parties stretching out into the transfinite number category. That is the whole problem with going beyond the realm of 'spoken resolution', into the streets etc. is that when somebody is speaking about what they want/think and you can discuss it with them, it is not possible for 3rd parties (or more!) to pretend to be the person speaking. Obviously the person can speak on behalf of others but ultimately that is revealed during the course of discussion. Somebody holding a stick or gun could be working for anybody and you will *NEVER* know.

[gerry1011]

It doesn't take a genius to work out who benefits from bloodshed at the moment and it isn't Yingluck, Thaksin or the Red Shirts but those hoping for another coup.

Strange...

I was always under the impression that so many thaivisa posters consider themselves as geniuses... But they still don't get that the ones who are the criminals and want a bloodshed are the yellows, the Dems, Suthep and his foolish followers... Strange...

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Robby nz]

It would seem that the third hand or perhaps just the second, has already struck.

Reported on Twitter and Facebook that some protesters have been attacked by 2 police and 1 army, all drunk and 6 protesters are injured, 3 serious.

They were grabbed by guards and taken to police station.

For unbelievers :