Islam banking intrest rate 3.60%

[KittenKong]

Opinion, of course. No basis in actual fact, research, investigation or the historical record.

Innuendo like this fans hatred.

It works hand in hand with an intellectually lazy brand of ignorance and superstition.

I doubt that Kittikong has any evidence whatsoever for his allegations nor does s/he really believe them.

(After all, one does not "believe" or "disbelieve" opinion, conjecture and allegation; one HOLDS these things until facts in evidence are proven)

Yes, opinion of course. That's what you tend to get on public internet forums.

Want some hard facts as well to go with the opinion? OK. The Islamic bank in question (and others that I have come across elsewhere in the world) apply some unusual moral rules to the way they do business. These include not paying interest but instead paying a share of profits that oddly enough equates very closely to interest rates offered by other competing banks. That's a fact. Here's an opinion to go with it: to me this seems hypocritical and deceitful and as such does not inspire me with confidence (which isn't to say that any other bank inspires me with much confidence either).

As for "innuendo" "hatred" "superstition" and "allegations", are you out of your mind?

[simple1]

Very strange comment on Sharia Law, do you understand the formulation and use of Sharia Law? BTW there is no central authority in Islam similar to the Catholic Church or the C of E

The C of E does make submissions to influence banking policy and has also backed the establishment of an 'ethical bank'

The Catholic Church is deeply involved in the banking system. The US government has put the Catholic Church on a watchlist for money laundering and some US banks and I assume others have stopped transacting with the Vatican Bank.

The Islamic Bank of Thailand is "Sharia certified'

I dont see the Vatican or the CofE telling banks not to charge interest, and I doubt they would get very far if they did. Nor do I see international Italian or British banks proclaiming that they follow any specific practices that aren't applied in most parts of the world as a matter of course. You may get the occasional bank or other financial institution claiming to be "ethical" (I am not convinced) but this rarely has any impact at all on the way they do business, just on who they do the business with.

And I dont see how the Catholic church being "involved" with banking is relevant. As long as they are just "involved" and dont invent strange financial rules that might affect me and my finances then it makes no difference to me.

If people want to do weird religious things they should do them in their own backyard (or church), not in high street banks, and this applies equally to all religions and beliefs. Banking should be secular, as should schools and broadcasting and supermarkets and just about everything else.

You don't think that money laundering is using 'strange financial rules' that effects the banking system and other institutions?

Islamic financial institutions based upon Sharia Law is their & their customers business; if people do not wish to use Islamic banks so be it. Truely do not understand why people are getting their knickers in a twist over this matter.

[KittenKong]

You don't think that money laundering is using 'strange financial rules' that effects the banking system and other institutions?

Not really, given that it is so widespread.

[i claudius]

The Islamic bank is a bit like Islam itself,we do not give interest on your loan ,but we share the profits ,which is like saying we are the religion of peace ,but then blow each other up ,or us ,nearly everywhere in the world . They are just finding a way around what they are supposed to believe in

you have once again excelled presenting ignorant, biased and narrow minded bullshit and are therefore awarded 999 points.

And you once again think its only you that knows anything , I in fact was involved with people of this faith for many years dealing with property ,almost to a man i found them shall we say ,not very trustworthy ,although i admit they came from the Indian sub continent and not from Saudi ,so for your know it all bullshiti award you get full marks as always 1000 points

Edited February 10, 2014 by i claudius

[Donnie Brasco]

Opinion, of course. No basis in actual fact, research, investigation or the historical record.

Innuendo like this fans hatred.

It works hand in hand with an intellectually lazy brand of ignorance and superstition.

I doubt that Kittikong has any evidence whatsoever for his allegations nor does s/he really believe them.

(After all, one does not "believe" or "disbelieve" opinion, conjecture and allegation; one HOLDS these things until facts in evidence are proven)

Yes, opinion of course. That's what you tend to get on public internet forums.

Want some hard facts as well to go with the opinion? OK. The Islamic bank in question (and others that I have come across elsewhere in the world) apply some unusual moral rules to the way they do business. These include not paying interest but instead paying a share of profits that oddly enough equates very closely to interest rates offered by other competing banks. That's a fact. Here's an opinion to go with it: to me this seems hypocritical and deceitful and as such does not inspire me with confidence (which isn't to say that any other bank inspires me with much confidence either).

As for "innuendo" "hatred" "superstition" and "allegations", are you out of your mind?

Your veiled references to terrorist groups are "innuendo".

Your contention that there is something sinister afoot because Islamic Banking choses to do the books differently than those you grew up with is "superstition".

Your focus on these banks as somewhat less forthright than Western Banks is a gratuitous smear.

You offer nothing in evidence of any of these allegations and you use the excuse that opinion is all we can expect in a public forum.

I contend that you seek alliance and confirmation of your beliefs and opinions and you do this without facts in evidence.

Innuendo. Superstition. Allegation.

Hatred (veiled or not) is still hatred.

This kind of opinion based on this mindset is a huge part of the problem.

And no. Sorry. I am not "out of (my) mind". Just acutely aware of what constitutes specious foundations of propaganda.

Cheers

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit."

[KittenKong]

Your veiled references to terrorist groups are "innuendo".

Your contention that there is something sinister afoot because Islamic Banking choses to do the books differently than those you grew up with is "superstition".

Your focus on these banks as somewhat less forthright than Western Banks is a gratuitous smear.

You offer nothing in evidence of any of these allegations and you use the excuse that opinion is all we can expect in a public forum.

I contend that you seek alliance and confirmation of your beliefs and opinions and you do this without facts in evidence.

Innuendo. Superstition. Allegation.

Hatred (veiled or not) is still hatred.

This kind of opinion based on this mindset is a huge part of the problem.

And no. Sorry. I am not "out of (my) mind". Just acutely aware of what constitutes specious foundations of propaganda.

Remarkable.

Perhaps we should discuss anal probing by aliens instead?

[Naam]

The Islamic bank is a bit like Islam itself,we do not give interest on your loan ,but we share the profits ,which is like saying we are the religion of peace ,but then blow each other up ,or us ,nearly everywhere in the world . They are just finding a way around what they are supposed to believe in

you have once again excelled presenting ignorant, biased and narrow minded bullshit and are therefore awarded 999 points.

And you once again think its only you that knows anything , I in fact was involved with people of this faith for many years dealing with property ,almost to a man i found them shall we say ,not very trustworthy ,although i admit they came from the Indian sub continent and not from Saudi ,so for your know it all bullshiti award you get full marks as always 1000 points

were they not trustworthy because they did not trust your real estate marketing rubbish?

[Donnie Brasco]

Your veiled references to terrorist groups are "innuendo".

Your contention that there is something sinister afoot because Islamic Banking choses to do the books differently than those you grew up with is "superstition".

Your focus on these banks as somewhat less forthright than Western Banks is a gratuitous smear.

You offer nothing in evidence of any of these allegations and you use the excuse that opinion is all we can expect in a public forum.

I contend that you seek alliance and confirmation of your beliefs and opinions and you do this without facts in evidence.

Innuendo. Superstition. Allegation.

Hatred (veiled or not) is still hatred.

This kind of opinion based on this mindset is a huge part of the problem.

And no. Sorry. I am not "out of (my) mind". Just acutely aware of what constitutes specious foundations of propaganda.

Remarkable.

Perhaps we should discuss anal probing by aliens instead?

Hmmmm. Yet another cogent response to my humble request that you at least make an attempt to contribute with facts and information and as an adult to this conversation about Islamic banking.

Thank you for finally turning the conversation towards a topic about which you no doubt can access vast annals of personal information and anecdotal testimony. For my part, however, I have never heard of this anal probing pastime? custom? tradition? (Ok, hobby, then) which you deem so relevant here.

Ignoring for the moment your motives for this bizarre change of subject I'll defer to your expertise regarding the relevance of such probes to the subject at hand.

I'm all ears.

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit."

[Donnie Brasco]

+1 sometimes it is nothing more than it appears to be, a bank! Oh no, shock and horror, where to go for the next conspiracy theory now.

Whether we agree or disagree with the current exchange concerning Islamic banking and somebody's attempts to attach it to the literal interpretation of Islam's version of Christiaonism's "Deuteronomy law", I am sure that we can ALL agree that this term, "conspiracy theory" has become an abused and hackneyed smear for any notion that challenges ignorance and superstition.

Why this oddly distorted term would be so unreservedly applied in this current era of unprecedented information access, challenges to conventional wisdom and discussion and challenge to ALL dictum and dogma is puzzling.

I mean really who but the most servile cipher actually believes everything that authority expects them to believe.

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit."

[Naam]

The Islamic bank is a bit like Islam itself,we do not give interest on your loan ,but we share the profits ,which is like saying we are the religion of peace ,but then blow each other up ,or us ,nearly everywhere in the world . They are just finding a way around what they are supposed to believe in

you have once again excelled presenting ignorant, biased and narrow minded bullshit and are therefore awarded 999 points.

And you once again think its only you that knows anything , I in fact was involved with people of this faith for many years dealing with property ,almost to a man i found them shall we say ,not very trustworthy ,although i admit they came from the Indian sub continent and not from Saudi ,so for your know it all bullshiti award you get full marks as always 1000 points

were they not trustworthy because they did not trust your real estate marketing rubbish?

let's recapitulate... the fact that a self proclaimed "property handler" found certain men of "this faith" from the Indian subcontinent "not very trustworthy" justifies the rejection of a Thai bank which conducts business according to Islamic teachings.

[sms747]

But Thai banks do not bring religion into it, there is no Buddhist bank, unlike the Islamic bank

what religion do Islamic banks "bring into it" pray tell?

well the name ISLAMIC is a bit of a give away, along with the farce of pretending not to pay interest as that is 'forbidden'

[olddoc]

I as a result of working the the Middle East I was forced to use an "Islamic" bank !

All I will say is that bank was very inventive in its application of "service fees" !

This greed resulted in my regularly withdrawing large wads of cash which I ran the risk of travelling with so as to place my money in a "safe" (less grasping) Western bank.

[i claudius]

No Naam ,i base my distrust of this faith by what i constantly see every day in the newspapers ,how they kill and suicide bomb each other and anyone who does not agree with them ,and by the atrocities that they commit daily in the south of our adopted country ,

you can pontificate all you like and try to talk anyone down that does not agree with you ,but just because you say it is so ,does not mean it is ,i go by what i read daily and what i have experianced

[Naam]

Very strange comment on Sharia Law, do you understand the formulation and use of Sharia Law? BTW there is no central authority in Islam similar to the Catholic Church or the C of E

The C of E does make submissions to influence banking policy and has also backed the establishment of an 'ethical bank'

The Catholic Church is deeply involved in the banking system. The US government has put the Catholic Church on a watchlist for money laundering and some US banks and I assume others have stopped transacting with the Vatican Bank.

The Islamic Bank of Thailand is "Sharia certified'

I dont see the Vatican or the CofE telling banks not to charge interest, and I doubt they would get very far if they did. Nor do I see international Italian or British banks proclaiming that they follow any specific practices that aren't applied in most parts of the world as a matter of course. You may get the occasional bank or other financial institution claiming to be "ethical" (I am not convinced) but this rarely has any impact at all on the way they do business, just on who they do the business with.

And I dont see how the Catholic church being "involved" with banking is relevant. As long as they are just "involved" and dont invent strange financial rules that might affect me and my finances then it makes no difference to me.

If people want to do weird religious things they should do them in their own backyard (or church), not in high street banks, and this applies equally to all religions and beliefs. Banking should be secular, as should schools and broadcasting and supermarkets and just about everything else.

If people want to do weird religious things

spoken like a true ignorant with a wealth of no idea as far as Islamic banking is concerned.

what exactly do you find weird and religious that "interest" paid to a creditor is called "profit share" and "interest" charged to a debtor is called "finance commission" ?

by the way, one "weird" fact for about 1,500 years was that a Christian was not allowed to go into money lending / financing.

for a little basic education on weird religious things (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) i recommend this BBC website:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/0/23448808

[khunken]

Naam

You are wasting your time using logic and fact against blind hatred.

The stupid thing is that in many cases the profits exceed interest being paid by comparable banks. Besides they exist in many Muslim & non-Muslim countries and tend to be better & more honestly run than others.

I had an account with an Islamic bank in Kuwait and received better profits than most of the other banks in the country.

One's money is no less safe with the local Islamic bank than any other bank licensed to do business in Thailand. The government guarantee is being tapered down to B1m over the next few years.

[chiang mai]

Naam

You are wasting your time using logic and fact against blind hatred.

The stupid thing is that in many cases the profits exceed interest being paid by comparable banks. Besides they exist in many Muslim & non-Muslim countries and tend to be better & more honestly run than others.

I had an account with an Islamic bank in Kuwait and received better profits than most of the other banks in the country.

One's money is no less safe with the local Islamic bank than any other bank licensed to do business in Thailand. The government guarantee is being tapered down to B1m over the next few years.

I disagree, as discussed earlier in the thread and also as demonstrated recently in the press, funds on deposit in Thailand with the Islamic Bank are at greater risk than with say UOB, a Singaporean bank, for all the reasons discussed earlier.

[Naam]

Naam

You are wasting your time using logic and fact against blind hatred.

The stupid thing is that in many cases the profits exceed interest being paid by comparable banks. Besides they exist in many Muslim & non-Muslim countries and tend to be better & more honestly run than others.

I had an account with an Islamic bank in Kuwait and received better profits than most of the other banks in the country.

One's money is no less safe with the local Islamic bank than any other bank licensed to do business in Thailand. The government guarantee is being tapered down to B1m over the next few years.

i know it's wasting time to argue with hatred, ignorance and quite often with plain stupidity. but there is also a certain entertainment factor when people ridicule themselves with claims such as "i'd rather burn my money!"

[Naam]

Naam

You are wasting your time using logic and fact against blind hatred.

The stupid thing is that in many cases the profits exceed interest being paid by comparable banks. Besides they exist in many Muslim & non-Muslim countries and tend to be better & more honestly run than others.

I had an account with an Islamic bank in Kuwait and received better profits than most of the other banks in the country.

One's money is no less safe with the local Islamic bank than any other bank licensed to do business in Thailand. The government guarantee is being tapered down to B1m over the next few years.

I disagree, as discussed earlier in the thread and also as demonstrated recently in the press, funds on deposit in Thailand with the Islamic Bank are at greater risk than with say UOB, a Singaporean bank, for all the reasons discussed earlier.

"as demonstrated recently in the press"

[chiang mai]

Naam

You are wasting your time using logic and fact against blind hatred.

The stupid thing is that in many cases the profits exceed interest being paid by comparable banks. Besides they exist in many Muslim & non-Muslim countries and tend to be better & more honestly run than others.

I had an account with an Islamic bank in Kuwait and received better profits than most of the other banks in the country.

One's money is no less safe with the local Islamic bank than any other bank licensed to do business in Thailand. The government guarantee is being tapered down to B1m over the next few years.

I disagree, as discussed earlier in the thread and also as demonstrated recently in the press, funds on deposit in Thailand with the Islamic Bank are at greater risk than with say UOB, a Singaporean bank, for all the reasons discussed earlier.

"as demonstrated recently in the press"

Take your pick of which rag you want to read, here's a fair usage quote from the paper that cannot be named:

"SME Bank and IBank rank among the weakest financial institutions in the country, with both plagued with billions of baht in distressed loans and capital-adequacy ratios well below minimum international standards".

here's another quote from a different source:

"IBank’s non-performing loans are at Bt39 billion or 40 per cent of total loans, which is higher than in December when NPLs were reported at Bt24 billion. (MCOT online news)"

[simple1]

Naam

You are wasting your time using logic and fact against blind hatred.

The stupid thing is that in many cases the profits exceed interest being paid by comparable banks. Besides they exist in many Muslim & non-Muslim countries and tend to be better & more honestly run than others.

I had an account with an Islamic bank in Kuwait and received better profits than most of the other banks in the country.

One's money is no less safe with the local Islamic bank than any other bank licensed to do business in Thailand. The government guarantee is being tapered down to B1m over the next few years.

I disagree, as discussed earlier in the thread and also as demonstrated recently in the press, funds on deposit in Thailand with the Islamic Bank are at greater risk than with say UOB, a Singaporean bank, for all the reasons discussed earlier.

"as demonstrated recently in the press"

Take your pick of which rag you want to read, here's a fair usage quote from the paper that cannot be named:

"SME Bank and IBank rank among the weakest financial institutions in the country, with both plagued with billions of baht in distressed loans and capital-adequacy ratios well below minimum international standards".

here's another quote from a different source:

"IBank’s non-performing loans are at Bt39 billion or 40 per cent of total loans, which is higher than in December when NPLs were reported at Bt24 billion. (MCOT online news)"

So what are the actual facts? On 05/02/2014 Reuters ran an article that stated.

"Non-performing loans were cut by more than 20 billion baht last year, with about 27 billion baht of NPLs left on its balance sheet. Management now aims to increase capital levels to comply with regulatory requirements."

[chiang mai]

We may never know for sure but there's certainly a lot of smoke around. This from an interview with the new manager of iBank one year ago:

He believed the problem of Bt39 billion NPLs will be solved in three years, adding that IBank officers who are found to unscrupulously offer loans to customers will be legally dealt with.

[i claudius]

Naam

You are wasting your time using logic and fact against blind hatred.

The stupid thing is that in many cases the profits exceed interest being paid by comparable banks. Besides they exist in many Muslim & non-Muslim countries and tend to be better & more honestly run than others.

I had an account with an Islamic bank in Kuwait and received better profits than most of the other banks in the country.

One's money is no less safe with the local Islamic bank than any other bank licensed to do business in Thailand. The government guarantee is being tapered down to B1m over the next few years.

I disagree, as discussed earlier in the thread and also as demonstrated recently in the press, funds on deposit in Thailand with the Islamic Bank are at greater risk than with say UOB, a Singaporean bank, for all the reasons discussed earlier.

"as demonstrated recently in the press"

Take your pick of which rag you want to read, here's a fair usage quote from the paper that cannot be named:

"SME Bank and IBank rank among the weakest financial institutions in the country, with both plagued with billions of baht in distressed loans and capital-adequacy ratios well below minimum international standards".

here's another quote from a different source:

"IBank’s non-performing loans are at Bt39 billion or 40 per cent of total loans, which is higher than in December when NPLs were reported at Bt24 billion. (MCOT online news)"

PLEASE DO NOT ARGUE WITH NAAM ,HE KNOWS EVERYTHING. OR AS WE LIKE TO CALL HIM HE IS A" KNOW ALL"

[KittenKong]

If people want to do weird religious things

spoken like a true ignorant with a wealth of no idea as far as Islamic banking is concerned.

what exactly do you find weird and religious that "interest" paid to a creditor is called "profit share" and "interest" charged to a debtor is called "finance commission" ?

I find a thing weird if it involves changing names to suit some obtuse moral beliefs without actually changing the thing itself. I also find it dishonest and hypocritical. Maybe you don't.

by the way, one "weird" fact for about 1,500 years was that a Christian was not allowed to go into money lending / financing.

I know. But I wasn't around at the time to be bothered by it. They don't do that any more which is good enough for me. If they did do it now I would be just as critical of them as I am of any strange religious groups. Indeed I am extremely critical of Christians but not for reasons related to banking and hence off-topic for this forum.

[Naam]

If people want to do weird religious things

spoken like a true ignorant with a wealth of no idea as far as Islamic banking is concerned.

what exactly do you find weird and religious that "interest" paid to a creditor is called "profit share" and "interest" charged to a debtor is called "finance commission" ?

I find a thing weird if it involves changing names to suit some obtuse moral beliefs without actually changing the thing itself. I also find it dishonest and hypocritical. Maybe you don't.

by the way, one "weird" fact for about 1,500 years was that a Christian was not allowed to go into money lending / financing.

I know. But I wasn't around at the time to be bothered by it. They don't do that any more which is good enough for me. If they did do it now I would be just as critical of them as I am of any strange religious groups. Indeed I am extremely critical of Christians but not for reasons related to banking and hence off-topic for this forum.

but Islamic banking bothers you because "you are around this time"?

[Naam]

PLEASE DO NOT ARGUE WITH NAAM ,HE KNOWS EVERYTHING. OR AS WE LIKE TO CALL HIM HE IS A" KNOW ALL":cheesy:

may i assume that using pluralis majestatis "we" is based on your imperial status? or are you bitching on behalf of others too?

[khunken]

I disagree, as discussed earlier in the thread and also as demonstrated recently in the press, funds on deposit in Thailand with the Islamic Bank are at greater risk than with say UOB, a Singaporean bank, for all the reasons discussed earlier.

"as demonstrated recently in the press" alt=cheesy.gif width=32 height=20>

Take your pick of which rag you want to read, here's a fair usage quote from the paper that cannot be named:

"SME Bank and IBank rank among the weakest financial institutions in the country, with both plagued with billions of baht in distressed loans and capital-adequacy ratios well below minimum international standards".

here's another quote from a different source:

"IBank’s non-performing loans are at Bt39 billion or 40 per cent of total loans, which is higher than in December when NPLs were reported at Bt24 billion. (MCOT online news)"

PLEASE DO NOT ARGUE WITH NAAM ,HE KNOWS EVERYTHING. OR AS WE LIKE TO CALL HIM HE IS A" KNOW ALL" alt=cheesy.gif width=32 height=20>

Well he actually posts facts and opinions to back up his knowledge unlike your 'detailed' first post in this thread which was a single 'NO' in very large script.

I would prefer to take advice from a 'know-all' than a 'know-nothing'. BTW I don't regard Naam as a knowall in a derogatory sense.

The real point is that the Islamic Bank's deposits are guaranteed by the government (and backed by the considerable resources of the BOT) so unless you regard the country as bankrupt (which it is not) your deposits are as safe as Bangkok Bank.

[i claudius]

My answer of NO was a considered opinion after reading the question ,did you want my reasons? if so ask .but my answer would still be NO ,

Edited February 12, 2014 by i claudius