ATF Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Hi, I am in the process of an building a Ducati Monster out of high end parts. Custom engine, frame wheels, everything. I won't need to get it safety approved because all the parts are all Ducati spec and it will look exactly the same as a standard Monster 1100 EVO. However how am I going to register it an what is it going to cost? It will have no frame number because it's a special alloy frame but stock design. Any input would be highly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonman Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 The lack of frame number will be a problem and that will be the least of the issues because technically you can no longer register a bike built from parts...... there is ways around this but illegal stuff cannot be discussed on TV. Easiest would be to buy a Ducati that is already registered and mod it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATF Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 The lack of frame number will be a problem and that will be the least of the issues because technically you can no longer register a bike built from parts...... there is ways around this but illegal stuff cannot be discussed on TV. Easiest would be to buy a Ducati that is already registered and mod it. I already have a similar Ducati which is registered but It's got to the stage I'm going to end up with two bikes. Maybe I could try to buy an insurance writeoff an transfer that book to my old bike? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard-BKK Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) If you build a motorcycle in Thailand from parts, and you're not a registered / licensed motorcycle company that has all the paperwork to do it legally, the motorcycle you build will still have to pass the Thai safety and environmental testing procedure.. And you will encounter the usual difficulty if you try to register it... Do you know you can configure the specifications of your Ducati in Thailand http://www.ducatithailand.com/special_configurator/index.do Edited February 22, 2014 by Richard-BKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATF Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 If you build a motorcycle in Thailand from parts, and you're not a registered / licensed motorcycle company that has all the paperwork to do it legally, the motorcycle you build will still have to pass the Thai safety and environmental testing procedure.. And you will encounter the usual difficulty if you try to register it... Do you know you can configure the specifications of your Ducati in Thailand http://www.ducatithailand.com/special_configurator/index.do Thanks for the info and the link but my mods go way beyond what Ducati offer. Looks like the only way out is to try to find a wrecked Ducati. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardog Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 It looks like you are going to have to go the full route & pay an awful lot to get a custom built out of a non booked frame & not even a booked anywhere engine.Richard probably has the best data for you to consider as he is correct on what is required now(being a dealer) with all the new regs. Expect to pay a ton on the emissions & getting the bike booked. It would have in hindsight been a hell of a lot cheaper to just have bought the 1100 from Red Baron or one of the other companies that do importing since it really takes knowing what you are doing to get it legal. Watch recycled books or dodgy ways to do getting the bike legal. The police can & do lift bikes they find major discrepancies like yours may have the way you were thinking on doing it. They have been checking a lot closer the last 2 years when I have gone to the DLT here in Pattaya area. I am sure that would be more than a minor pissoff if the heat fancied & kept your bike with a crushed title that basically is only good if you are a cop to drive. If or when you get into an accident regardless of who is at fault would be the absolute easiest timing for the authorities to find you have non matching numbers & crush your title & confiscate the bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATF Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 It looks like you are going to have to go the full route & pay an awful lot to get a custom built out of a non booked frame & not even a booked anywhere engine.Richard probably has the best data for you to consider as he is correct on what is required now(being a dealer) with all the new regs. Expect to pay a ton on the emissions & getting the bike booked. It would have in hindsight been a hell of a lot cheaper to just have bought the 1100 from Red Baron or one of the other companies that do importing since it really takes knowing what you are doing to get it legal. Watch recycled books or dodgy ways to do getting the bike legal. The police can & do lift bikes they find major discrepancies like yours may have the way you were thinking on doing it. They have been checking a lot closer the last 2 years when I have gone to the DLT here in Pattaya area. I am sure that would be more than a minor pissoff if the heat fancied & kept your bike with a crushed title that basically is only good if you are a cop to drive. If or when you get into an accident regardless of who is at fault would be the absolute easiest timing for the authorities to find you have non matching numbers & crush your title & confiscate the bike. Thanks for the heads up. I'll have to go and talk to the DLT about changing the frame but if I change the frame I expect I'll have to keep the old one so probably better to spend $$$$ elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonman Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard-BKK Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 A few years back the tool box from “Spoonman” would have worked, but now a day the Department of Transport is checking the validation of a VIM with the official representative in Thailand. They have to announce the VIM validate or not and any additional information... Most modern motorcycle manufacturers now-a-day keep track of who the owner of a motorcycle by the VIM, so if you try to change the VIM you will not only change the age, origin and previous ownership... You actually face serious time in Bangkok Hilton... Even if you try to cheat a fake frame number pass the DLT in most European countries and probably the USA you probably face serious amount of time in jail... Thailand is not different... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATF Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 A few years back the tool box from “Spoonman” would have worked, but now a day the Department of Transport is checking the validation of a VIM with the official representative in Thailand. They have to announce the VIM validate or not and any additional information... Most modern motorcycle manufacturers now-a-day keep track of who the owner of a motorcycle by the VIM, so if you try to change the VIM you will not only change the age, origin and previous ownership... You actually face serious time in Bangkok Hilton... Even if you try to cheat a fake frame number pass the DLT in most European countries and probably the USA you probably face serious amount of time in jail... Thailand is not different... Hi Richard, I think Spoonman was being a a little "tongue in cheek" and most VIN numbers now are raised anyway, but a blank frame would need some sort of number to be used as a VIN. Additionally it still wouldn't explain how I got the bike into the country because to get a green book you have to show you paid import tax. Otherwise as you stated earlier you have to be a registered mc manufacturer to get a bike registered which has been built in Thailand. After speaking with you guys I think the only way out is to get a wrecked bike and legally transfer the VIN because bike frames get damaged all the time there must be a facility for this. Likewise if your engine blows up in your car there's no problem getting a new engine and re-registering the new engine in the green book. However with a car the authorities would be very suspicious if you wanted to change the VIN. Oh I've just bought a superlight alloy subframe for my Benz and need the VIN changed. No way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hili Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 ATF i do have a "wrecked" monster s4r 996 msg me if its interesting for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSJ Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Back in Oz there were damaged bike auctions every other week in one state or another. Here in LOS for 4+ years and I have yet to find one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hili Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Here there are not such because they get rebuild from other parts and than sold second hand with the remark never dropped or accident. Thais are good in making things look good; technical wise its the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATF Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 A few years back the tool box from “Spoonman” would have worked, but now a day the Department of Transport is checking the validation of a VIM with the official representative in Thailand. They have to announce the VIM validate or not and any additional information... Most modern motorcycle manufacturers now-a-day keep track of who the owner of a motorcycle by the VIM, so if you try to change the VIM you will not only change the age, origin and previous ownership... You actually face serious time in Bangkok Hilton... Even if you try to cheat a fake frame number pass the DLT in most European countries and probably the USA you probably face serious amount of time in jail... Thailand is not different... Richard, Seeing as you are in the "biz" thought I'd send this to you. Went to renew my car tax today and they had to give the car an inspection before they would give me the tax disc. Asked the guys doing the inspection could I change the frame and/or engine on my Ducati? Answer no problem at all Sir! I said my frame number has a raised not punched VIN number. No problem Sir, just get the new frame punched with the same VIN number and bring your old frame along so we can check. I asked do I have to keep my old frame for future inspection-no not at all. Can I sell it-yes! Just grind off the old VIN number and you're good to go. If someone buys your frame they can stamp it i.e. if they've crashed their bike. Same with the engine, just show the old engine and they will change the engine number in the green book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eezergood Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 A few years back the tool box from “Spoonman” would have worked, but now a day the Department of Transport is checking the validation of a VIM with the official representative in Thailand. They have to announce the VIM validate or not and any additional information... Most modern motorcycle manufacturers now-a-day keep track of who the owner of a motorcycle by the VIM, so if you try to change the VIM you will not only change the age, origin and previous ownership... You actually face serious time in Bangkok Hilton... Even if you try to cheat a fake frame number pass the DLT in most European countries and probably the USA you probably face serious amount of time in jail... Thailand is not different... Richard, Seeing as you are in the "biz" thought I'd send this to you. Went to renew my car tax today and they had to give the car an inspection before they would give me the tax disc. Asked the guys doing the inspection could I change the frame and/or engine on my Ducati? Answer no problem at all Sir! I said my frame number has a raised not punched VIN number. No problem Sir, just get the new frame punched with the same VIN number and bring your old frame along so we can check. I asked do I have to keep my old frame for future inspection-no not at all. Can I sell it-yes! Just grind off the old VIN number and you're good to go. If someone buys your frame they can stamp it i.e. if they've crashed their bike. Same with the engine, just show the old engine and they will change the engine number in the green book. Good luck mate, but more to the point what ARE you building? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATF Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 A few years back the tool box from “Spoonman” would have worked, but now a day the Department of Transport is checking the validation of a VIM with the official representative in Thailand. They have to announce the VIM validate or not and any additional information... Most modern motorcycle manufacturers now-a-day keep track of who the owner of a motorcycle by the VIM, so if you try to change the VIM you will not only change the age, origin and previous ownership... You actually face serious time in Bangkok Hilton... Even if you try to cheat a fake frame number pass the DLT in most European countries and probably the USA you probably face serious amount of time in jail... Thailand is not different... Richard, Seeing as you are in the "biz" thought I'd send this to you. Went to renew my car tax today and they had to give the car an inspection before they would give me the tax disc. Asked the guys doing the inspection could I change the frame and/or engine on my Ducati? Answer no problem at all Sir! I said my frame number has a raised not punched VIN number. No problem Sir, just get the new frame punched with the same VIN number and bring your old frame along so we can check. I asked do I have to keep my old frame for future inspection-no not at all. Can I sell it-yes! Just grind off the old VIN number and you're good to go. If someone buys your frame they can stamp it i.e. if they've crashed their bike. Same with the engine, just show the old engine and they will change the engine number in the green book. Good luck mate, but more to the point what ARE you building? Reads like there is some sort of implication in your question which I don't understand. Taking your question literally my plan was to put a modified Ducati Monster 1100 EVO engine into my Ducati Monster 796. However in the meantime I have got the BHP up to over 100 BHP which is standard EVO spec. I'm not going to proceed with the engine upgrade. Because my bike is much lighter now so I'm getting 100 BHP out of an 803CC V Twin which is plenty of power for where I live and gives me over 220 KPH on the highway which is as fast as I'm prepared to go with all the clowns out there. However I would still like to change the frame to titanium alloy and the rear frame to carbon but Satan has arrived in the form of the KTM 1290R. 1301CC's 180 BHP!!!!! Check out this VID you'll love it! http://www.1290superduker.com/cms/#specials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F4UCorsair Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Stamp a number on the frame!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudcrab Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 If you build a motorcycle in Thailand from parts, and you're not a registered / licensed motorcycle company that has all the paperwork to do it legally, the motorcycle you build will still have to pass the Thai safety and environmental testing procedure.. And you will encounter the usual difficulty if you try to register it... Do you know you can configure the specifications of your Ducati in Thailand http://www.ducatithailand.com/special_configurator/index.do Thanks for the info and the link but my mods go way beyond what Ducati offer. Looks like the only way out is to try to find a wrecked Ducati. Sounds like you have already built one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudcrab Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Off topic.....but is there a way to import a vintage bike into Thailand...anyone know? obviously it will be used or secondhand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercman24 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 a bit off topic i know but some knowledgable guys on here, i have an 04 Honda Fireblade 1000 RR worth about £2750, on looking at the local paper here, there is one the same as mine for £5000 what the hell is that about and also a Triumph 1050 sprint, 2 years old up for more than a new one in the u.k. would it pay me to crate mine over and pay the taxes or not, (if possible) was told it had to be a new bike ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paz Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Last two posts: you cannot register an used imported bike. Search forum before start dreaming. Pay local prices or keep scootering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercman24 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 thanks for the reply, i thought that was the case, who wants to ride a shit scooter, and why are big bikes so expensive, on my frequent vists i can say i have only seen 2 "big bikes" one was a ducati monster and the other a Hyabusa, cant see the logic in this, can anyone, ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paz Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 thanks for the reply, i thought that was the case, who wants to ride a shit scooter, and why are big bikes so expensive, on my frequent vists i can say i have only seen 2 "big bikes" one was a ducati monster and the other a Hyabusa, cant see the logic in this, can anyone, ?? Have you ever heard of import taxes, custom duties, etc ? Same for luxury cars. Common in developing countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotary Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Have a look at the VIN numbers on any vehicle. They are done in a special font that I am pretty sure you cannot buy in metal stamps. My guess is the font will be different for different makers also. Now the question is would the proper inspection folks be clued in enough to see the VIN was in the wrong font...................luck of the draw on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotary Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Off topic.....but is there a way to import a vintage bike into Thailand...anyone know? obviously it will be used or secondhand. I believe it has to be more than 20 years old. I remember seeing this many years ago but this could have changed by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liddelljohn Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 There are custom bike frame builders here and they dont have any problems ,, If you are exchanging new frame for old its no problem , just changer the numbers ,, but you need a registration doc , from the old frame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Ducati frames are engraved by a computer machine stylus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATF Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 Used i.e. secondhand bikes are not allowed to be brought into Thailand period! This law was pushed through by the big bike companies about two years ago. The only exception is if you already own the bike overseas, and I am not sure regarding how long the timeframe has to be, but aside from taxes the only stipulation is you have to keep it in your name for three years. Please don't take my word for it and get proper legal advice before trying to import one. However I believe this to be true in principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATF Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 Garry I don't know exactly how Ducati engrave the frame numbers but the letters and numbers are formed in raised dots. However when changing the frame simple stamping is all that is required according to the Department of Transport. Of course you cannot reuse the old frame without removing the old numbers first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATF Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 On another note instead of buying first class insurance for your bike, especially if it has been modded, it's better to buy personal accident insurance. Most insurance companies charge high premiums for first class insurance for big bikes but if you just insure it against theft and buy personal accident insurance you will be covered for death and injury up to 5M baht as opposed to normally 2M baht for bike or car insurance. This will also circumvent any problems about modifying your bike and the cost is the same around 15-17k per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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