Thai troops accused of killing 15 Cambodian loggers

[webfact]

Thai troops accused of killing 15 Cambodian loggers

PHNOM PENH, March 14, 2014 (AFP) - Cambodia's military on Friday accused Thai troops of killing 15 villagers who illegally crossed the border to log for valuable timber.

A Thai official denied the allegation.

Twelve loggers were shot dead on March 5 -- followed by three more a week later -- after entering Thailand from Cambodia's northern province of Preah Vihear to cut rosewood, Cambodian military intelligence officer Preap Thoeurth said by telephone.

"Authorities have educated the people not to cross the border to log, but rosewood is very expensive," he said.
Pen Song, a Cambodian military commander in the province, confirmed the incidents.

"We have asked them (the Thai military) not to kill Cambodian loggers, but to arrest them or to fine them, but they still keep killing. We don't know what to do," he said.

But Major General Prawit Hookaew, a regional spokesman for the Thai army, rejected the accusation, saying it was "impossible" for so many Cambodians to have been killed without a formal protest by Phnom Penh.

Cambodian loggers are routinely caught sneaking into Thailand, often in search of rosewood, which fetches thousands of dollars per cubic metre and is in strong demand in China and Vietnam.

Years of rampant illegal felling in Cambodia have devastated the country's own luxury timber stocks.

Cambodian officials, including Prime Minister Hun Sen, have repeatedly urged Thailand to arrest trespassers instead of firing at them.

The border between the two countries has never been fully demarcated, in part because it is littered with landmines left over from decades of war in Cambodia.

Thai forces allegedly shot dead at least 69 Cambodian loggers last year for illegally crossing the border, according to information released by Cambodia's interior ministry last month.


-- (c) Copyright AFP 2014-03-14

[khwaibah]

Maybe two different sources but this subject is all ready ruining. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/710775-fifteen-gunned-down-thais-killing-cambodians-12perday/#entry7560394

[northernjohn]

Maybe two different sources but this subject is all ready ruining. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/710775-fifteen-gunned-down-thais-killing-cambodians-12perday/#entry7560394

Same incidents just that the other thread got derailed with accusations that the loggers were carrying AK47 rifles and did not manage to kill any of the soldiers. Got fishy right off the bat. Also it was on the Cambodian forum not exactly a popular one. Worth looking at occasionally.

It did how ever mention that this was not an uncommon thing there was 165 deaths last year.

[than]

They illegally across the border and sometime this Cambodian loggers are armed.......

[khwaibah]

Maybe two different sources but this subject is all ready ruining. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/710775-fifteen-gunned-down-thais-killing-cambodians-12perday/#entry7560394

Same incidents just that the other thread got derailed with accusations that the loggers were carrying AK47 rifles and did not manage to kill any of the soldiers. Got fishy right off the bat. Also it was on the Cambodian forum not exactly a popular one. Worth looking at occasionally.

It did how ever mention that this was not an uncommon thing there was 165 deaths last year.

Two separate incidents. 3 Cambodians killed and 12 in another group. The 12 looks like a trumped up group for propaganda by Cambodia. The group of 3 does look like a normal group of illegal loggers. The Department of Wildlife and Plant Conservation (not army) are tasked with the preservation of Thailand's forest and wildlife. Yes the DWPC have to ware bullet prof vest carry M16s, WHY,because the Illegal Cambodian loggers plant land mines, trip wires and use AK47. How do I know this because I live on the border and know these people and have attend funerals of personal of the DWPC.

[Dibbler]

All rosewood timber in Cambodia comes to The Big Man and his family, either through Try Pheap company which has the sole license to buy and sell luxury timber, including all timber confiscated by the Forestry Administration, or through the Royal Cambodian Armed Forces who are heavily involved in illegal harvest and smuggling of rosewood. And with rosewood selling for several hundred dollars a kilo, that's 69 dead loggers who are very easily replaced.

[monkeycountry]

The loggers may not know if they are in Thailand or Cambodia, but they know they are logging illegally on someone elses land. Simple solution to a simple problem. Don't trespass and don't log illegally.

If Cambodia is so worried about illegal loggers getting shot, then put up a fence with a warning along the part of the border Cambodia know is theirs, and make it clear in the warnings that outside the fence is either disputed land or Thai land, and that trespassers will be shot.

I am sorry, but I have no sympathy for all those people, both Cambodian and Thai, who get caught knowingly logging or building resorts etc. on everyone elses land - and it seems the military does not have much sympathy for them either. Perhaps the military can expand their "patrols" to cover illegal poachers too?

[chainarong]

It is had to believe that fifteen have been killed in illegal logging , in this day n age you would hope that this sort of sh!!t died out with button up boots, that's how behind the times these people are in the thought process and in education, its time Thailand came out of the dim dark ages and started becoming a more tolerant country .

[allan michaud]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Maybe two different sources but this subject is all ready ruining. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/710775-fifteen-gunned-down-thais-killing-cambodians-12perday/#entry7560394

Same incidents just that the other thread got derailed with accusations that the loggers were carrying AK47 rifles and did not manage to kill any of the soldiers. Got fishy right off the bat. Also it was on the Cambodian forum not exactly a popular one. Worth looking at occasionally.

It did how ever mention that this was not an uncommon thing there was 165 deaths last year.

I work with many people in the Cambodian conservation sector and as far as most people here are concerned the numbers are around 90 over the past 2 years, which is still outrageous. It is very clear the Thai's are taking a shoot to kill attitude with this and while I am against illegal logging, this is an international disgrace. I am amazed the UN has not spoken out considering the large numbers being routinely murdered by the Thai's. It is less amazing, however, that the Cambodian govt does not speak out. Sadly we all know who's family is behind the loggers here.

[Dibbler]

It is had to believe that fifteen have been killed in illegal logging , in this day n age you would hope that this sort of sh!!t died out with button up boots, that's how behind the times these people are in the thought process and in education, its time Thailand came out of the dim dark ages and started becoming a more tolerant country .

You are missing the point which is that it's part of a long-running game about not letting Cambodia 'win' the border skirmish in and around Preah Vihear temple, and hey any rosewood stolen by the Cambodian loggers leaves less for folks on the Thai side of the border to harvest themselves, so it's convenient to invoke "border protection" as the reason for this crackdown.

[khwaibah]

It is had to believe that fifteen have been killed in illegal logging , in this day n age you would hope that this sort of sh!!t died out with button up boots, that's how behind the times these people are in the thought process and in education, its time Thailand came out of the dim dark ages and started becoming a more tolerant country .

You are missing the point which is that it's part of a long-running game about not letting Cambodia 'win' the border skirmish in and around Preah Vihear temple, and hey any rosewood stolen by the Cambodian loggers leaves less for folks on the Thai side of the border to harvest themselves, so it's convenient to invoke "border protection" as the reason for this crackdown.

Incorrect. This border skirmish over illegal logging covers every kilometer of Thai borders with Myanmar, Lao and Cambodia.

[Trembly]

No sympathy if they are armed.

I appreciate that every one has got to be fed and make a living and so on but devastating forests that take hundreds of years to grow should not be a viable option, nay, it isn't a viable option.

RIP to the poor buggers and I wish their families all of the best, however, notwithstanding the corruption which no doubt exists on this side of the border too, I'm glad to see that at least some of the Thai army is showing serious intent to deter the loggers.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Trembly

[khwaibah]

No sympathy if they are armed.

I appreciate that every one has got to be fed and make a living and so on but devastating forests that take hundreds of years to grow should not be a viable option, nay, it isn't a viable option.

RIP to the poor buggers and I wish their families all of the best, but I'm glad to see that the uncorrupted Thai troops at the border are taking their job seriously!

I agree with the loss of life, its sad.Corruption,yes Thailand has it in spades but Cambodia makes Thailand look like choirboys.

[Mudcrab]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Maybe two different sources but this subject is all ready ruining. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/710775-fifteen-gunned-down-thais-killing-cambodians-12perday/#entry7560394

Same incidents just that the other thread got derailed with accusations that the loggers were carrying AK47 rifles and did not manage to kill any of the soldiers. Got fishy right off the bat. Also it was on the Cambodian forum not exactly a popular one. Worth looking at occasionally.

It did how ever mention that this was not an uncommon thing there was 165 deaths last year.

I work with many people in the Cambodian conservation sector and as far as most people here are concerned the numbers are around 90 over the past 2 years, which is still outrageous. It is very clear the Thai's are taking a shoot to kill attitude with this and while I am against illegal logging, this is an international disgrace. I am amazed the UN has not spoken out considering the large numbers being routinely murdered by the Thai's. It is less amazing, however, that the Cambodian govt does not speak out. Sadly we all know who's family is behind the loggers here.

The inlaws?

[Dibbler]

It is had to believe that fifteen have been killed in illegal logging , in this day n age you would hope that this sort of sh!!t died out with button up boots, that's how behind the times these people are in the thought process and in education, its time Thailand came out of the dim dark ages and started becoming a more tolerant country .

You are missing the point which is that it's part of a long-running game about not letting Cambodia 'win' the border skirmish in and around Preah Vihear temple, and hey any rosewood stolen by the Cambodian loggers leaves less for folks on the Thai side of the border to harvest themselves, so it's convenient to invoke "border protection" as the reason for this crackdown.

Incorrect. This border skirmish over illegal logging covers every kilometer of Thai borders with Myanmar, Lao and Cambodia.

No it doesn't. This border skirmish is about Preah Vihear temple, and rosewood. There is no high-value rosewood outside of the eastern provinces of Buriram, Srisaket and Surin, and you don't hear about Thai border forces shooting people from Myanmar, Lao, Malaysia or Cambodia outside of these provinces if they cross the border to cut timber and hunt wildlife.

[khwaibah]

It is had to believe that fifteen have been killed in illegal logging , in this day n age you would hope that this sort of sh!!t died out with button up boots, that's how behind the times these people are in the thought process and in education, its time Thailand came out of the dim dark ages and started becoming a more tolerant country .

You are missing the point which is that it's part of a long-running game about not letting Cambodia 'win' the border skirmish in and around Preah Vihear temple, and hey any rosewood stolen by the Cambodian loggers leaves less for folks on the Thai side of the border to harvest themselves, so it's convenient to invoke "border protection" as the reason for this crackdown.

Incorrect. This border skirmish over illegal logging covers every kilometer of Thai borders with Myanmar, Lao and Cambodia.

No it doesn't. This border skirmish is about Preah Vihear temple, and rosewood. There is no high-value rosewood outside of the eastern provinces of Buriram, Srisaket and Surin, and you don't hear about Thai border forces shooting people from Myanmar, Lao, Malaysia or Cambodia outside of these provinces if they cross the border to cut timber and hunt wildlife.

Your incorrect on this also. High value Rosewood is down the eastern border with Thailand and along the border of Lao plus it is in northern Thailand. As for hearing about these other location you do hear about them but have to want to.

[BirdsandBooze]

The Thai authorities weren't too happy when the Burmese military arrested that large gang of Thais that had crossed into Burma from Ranong to plunder the natural resources. If the Burmese military had shot those people the Thai army could have overreacted and ended up a few weeks later in slit trenches around Bangkok making a final stand.

[jerrybuice]

It is had to believe that fifteen have been killed in illegal logging , in this day n age you would hope that this sort of sh!!t died out with button up boots, that's how behind the times these people are in the thought process and in education, its time Thailand came out of the dim dark ages and started becoming a more tolerant country .

Tolerant?...tolerant of what?.. tolerant of people stripping Thailand's forest?.... tolerant of people killing your wildlife? .... tolerant of what? How much tolerance should one give to someone if they continue to rape and pillage your natural resources? If the military has killed 150-200 poachers a year, then imagine how many are in the forest every day doing this and not get caught!

[Dibbler]

khwaibah, If we are talking about Siamese rosewood which is what the Vietnamese traders are buying for several hundred dollars a kilo in Cambodia, and thus a globally threatened species, the only significant populations left in Thailand are in Buriram, Srisaket and Surin provinces. Actually there are few rosewood trees left standing even in this mine-ridden border region, and the loggers are now digging up the roots of trees that were felled years ago. Rosewood in the rest of Isan and northern Thailand has long been plundered as what's left of the forests there are easy to access, and there are no mines to worry about stepping on.

[khwaibah]

khwaibah, If we are talking about Siamese rosewood which is what the Vietnamese traders are buying for several hundred dollars a kilo in Cambodia, and thus a globally threatened species, the only significant populations left in Thailand are in Buriram, Srisaket and Surin provinces. Actually there are few rosewood trees left standing even in this mine-ridden border region, and the loggers are now digging up the roots of trees that were felled years ago. Rosewood in the rest of Isan and northern Thailand has long been plundered as what's left of the forests there are easy to access, and there are no mines to worry about stepping on. You s

You see the wooden fence post is my area that line the fields that go for 500 to 2000 baht per post. Yes Surin. Its not balsa wood.

[DLP]

What a load of loggers

[brianP]

If you look at a recent sat photo of Thailand's and Cambodia's border area, you see green in the North and a brown dark area in the South. Cambodia has a border image of deforestation. Keep those poachers out or Thailand will be brown too!

[marko kok prong]

What is the point in arresting them,and then what send them back to cambodia,and next week they are back at it again, i applaude Thailand for making a stand,if these people know they may be killed i am sure that may deter many more potential loggers, if they know it is just a slap on the wrist,many more will come, the fact that Thailand seems to be serious about protecting it's natural resources i think should be applauded by all that live here.

[searcherkind666]

old growth forest are nearly gone , its a travesty whats happing to the natural world, sad to hear people have died

[Somtamnication]

Well, if there are confirmed 15 killings murders, then there are many more that are not confirmed.

[boisian]

sounds like it would be good practice to start planting that wood in between the rubber. The great grand kids might do really well.....