US troops land in Poland for exercises: Ukraine crisis

[webfact]

Ukraine crisis: US troops land in Poland for exercises

(BBC) The first contingent of US troops has landed in Poland for military exercises amid tensions with Russia over Ukraine.

Some 150 soldiers, who landed in north-west Poland, are due to be followed in coming days by a further 450 troops.

Separately, the UK, Netherlands and Denmark scrambled fighter jets after two Russian military aircraft were spotted approaching their airspace.

Earlier, Russia's foreign minister said Moscow would respond to any attack on its interests in Ukraine.

Speaking on Russian state TV channel RT on Wednesday, Sergei Lavrov drew a parallel with the 2008 Georgian war, saying: "If our interests, our legitimate interests, the interests of Russians have been attacked directly....

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27136276


-- BBC 2014-04-24

[Pralaad]

It's a good thing US is serious about not escalating the issue and of course all about people of Ukraine

[NeverSure]

The US and all of NATO has a solemn commitment to protect Poland and several other nearby countries. Russia is signaling a desire to expand its territories again.

Putting some US troops on the ground is merely a good chess move. Russia might mess with Poland, but if it messes with even a couple of hundred US troops it's a game changer.

Other than having nukes, Russia is a paper tiger. Russia spends just 10% of what the US spends on military, and is far behind in technology. LINK

[Pralaad]

The US and all of NATO has a solemn commitment to protect Poland and several other nearby countries. Russia is signaling a desire to expand its territories again.

Putting some US troops on the ground is merely a good chess move. Russia might mess with Poland, but if it messes with even a couple of hundred US troops it's a game changer.

Other than having nukes, Russia is a paper tiger. Russia spends just 10% of what the US spends on military, and is far behind in technology. LINK

44e4c.png

May be i missed it, but when did Russia signaled it was interested in expanding to Poland?

[Credo]

I think the signal was raised when they invaded Ukraine. But that's probably not the only thing that you have missed.

[Pralaad]

I think the signal was raised when they invaded Ukraine. But that's probably not the only thing that you have missed.

They invaded Ukraine? Really? do you mind providing your source?

[baneko]

Of course they did. Are you daft?

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[craigt3365]

I think the signal was raised when they invaded Ukraine. But that's probably not the only thing that you have missed.

They invaded Ukraine? Really? do you mind providing your source?

This is discussed in pretty much every news source around the world, including Thaivisa.com. A simple Google search will give you what you need.

[Pralaad]

I think the signal was raised when they invaded Ukraine. But that's probably not the only thing that you have missed.

They invaded Ukraine? Really? do you mind providing your source?

This is discussed in pretty much every news source around the world, including Thaivisa.com. A simple Google search will give you what you need.

What is discussed? That Crimea held referendum and decided to break away from Ukraine to join Russia?

Do you consider that to be an invasion of UKRAINE?

Did you see any military invading and forcefully annexing? i did not.

May be we are reading and watching different source's??

[pbay]

The US and all of NATO has a solemn commitment to protect Poland and several other nearby countries. Russia is signaling a desire to expand its territories again.

Rubbish. Like Poland is under threat from Russia.

[rickirs]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I think the signal was raised when they invaded Ukraine. But that's probably not the only thing that you have missed.

They invaded Ukraine? Really? do you mind providing your source?

Before Russia annexed Crimea it moved its troops into Crimea that at that time was part of Ukrainian soverneighty allegedly to assure pro-Russian Ukrainian citizens' safety. When a foreign nation enters into another nation with a military force without permission, that is usually referred to as "invasion." I doubt Russia would not call it an invasion should the US military enter Russia to protect the safety of pro-American Russian citizens.

[craigt3365]

What is discussed? That Crimea held referendum and decided to break away from Ukraine to join Russia?

Do you consider that to be an invasion of UKRAINE?

Did you see any military invading and forcefully annexing? i did not.

May be we are reading and watching different source's??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Russian_military_intervention_in_Ukraine

In late February 2014, unmarked armed forces began to take over the Crimean Peninsula in Ukraine. Experts identified the gunmen to be Russian Special Forces^%5B43%5D and other paramilitaries. Russia at the time insisted that the forces did not include Russian troops stationed in the area,^%5B44%5D but only local self-defense forces.^{%5B45%5D%5B46%5D} The local population and the media referred to them as "little green men".^{%5B47%5D%5B48%5D} On 17 April, Russian president Vladimir Putin admitted that Russian troops were in fact present in Crimea during the referendum, saying "Of course, Russian servicemen backed the Crimean self-defense forces," and that their presence was necessary to facilitate the referendum.^{%5B49%5D%5B50%5D}

Invasion: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/invasion

An instance of invading a country or region with an armed force:

[pbay]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I think the signal was raised when they invaded Ukraine. But that's probably not the only thing that you have missed.

They invaded Ukraine? Really? do you mind providing your source?

Before Russia annexed Crimea it moved its troops into Crimea that at that time was part of Ukrainian soverneighty allegedly to assure pro-Russian Ukrainian citizens' safety. When a foreign nation enters into another nation with a military force without permission, that is usually referred to as "invasion." I doubt Russia would not call it an invasion should the US military enter Russia to protect the safety of pro-American Russian citizens.

Russian forces were already in the Crimea, they have a base there.They were invited there by the Ukranians.

[craigt3365]

The US and all of NATO has a solemn commitment to protect Poland and several other nearby countries. Russia is signaling a desire to expand its territories again.

Putting some US troops on the ground is merely a good chess move. Russia might mess with Poland, but if it messes with even a couple of hundred US troops it's a game changer.

Other than having nukes, Russia is a paper tiger. Russia spends just 10% of what the US spends on military, and is far behind in technology. LINK

44e4c.png

May be i missed it, but when did Russia signaled it was interested in expanding to Poland?

I think the locals there are still nervous from their last experience with the Russians:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-02/polish-magazine-lays-out-what-russian-invasion-would-look

And the Crimea is not the first place the Russians have invaded:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1043236/Georgia-overrun-Russian-troops-scale-ground-invasion-begins.html

[craigt3365]

Another good article for historical references:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/14/georgia-lesson-for-ukraine-crimea-referendum-trick

[louse1953]

The US and all of NATO has a solemn commitment to protect Poland and several other nearby countries. Russia is signaling a desire to expand its territories again.

Putting some US troops on the ground is merely a good chess move. Russia might mess with Poland, but if it messes with even a couple of hundred US troops it's a game changer.

Other than having nukes, Russia is a paper tiger. Russia spends just 10% of what the US spends on military, and is far behind in technology. LINK

44e4c.png

I think you will find that Russia is more than capable of turning the US, UK and most of the EU into smoking holes in the ground.

You are foolishly handing the US a victory before any attempt is made to get involved in a conflict.

Russia also have China on side... forget that did you?

Don't right off the capabilities of Russia... The US know all too well that they would not be doing anyone any favours by physically attacking Russians.... That is why the US with all its bloated defense budget and technology wouldn't have the balls to fire a single bullet at a Russian. They are just loud mouths.

Dont be so sure about China backing Russia against the US when it really gets down to business.They have a lot of money invested in the US,i would say they would stay neutral.Dont quote Syria at me,because sadly they havent got much to interest the big boys,only a bit of sabre rattling,and then forget.

[rickirs]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The US and all of NATO has a solemn commitment to protect Poland and several other nearby countries. Russia is signaling a desire to expand its territories again.

Putting some US troops on the ground is merely a good chess move. Russia might mess with Poland, but if it messes with even a couple of hundred US troops it's a game changer.

Other than having nukes, Russia is a paper tiger. Russia spends just 10% of what the US spends on military, and is far behind in technology. LINK


44e4c.png

May be i missed it, but when did Russia signaled it was interested in expanding to Poland?

You want signals?

How about when by its invasion of the Ukrainian region called Crimea that Russia had no respect to international agreements whereby Russia recognized and respected a country's sovereignty. When Putin says he will go into ANY country whose pro-Russian citizens feel threatend by that country's government. When during WW2 and afterwards during the Cold War Russia annexed countless countries at or near its western and southern borders; when Russia annexed parts of Georgia after it invaded and fought with Georgia armed forces.

Many of the recent NATO countries like Hungary, the Czech Republic, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Slovakia, Bulgaria, and Romania still have citizens who are pro-Russian. The Russian excuse to invade Ukraine could apply to all of them. If someone breaks into your neighbors house to burglarize it, and announces he has the right to do so any anyone else's house, that sends a very strong signal that you better be prepared.

[baneko]

I think the signal was raised when they invaded Ukraine. But that's probably not the only thing that you have missed.

They invaded Ukraine? Really? do you mind providing your source?

This is discussed in pretty much every news source around the world, including Thaivisa.com. A simple Google search will give you what you need.

What is discussed? That Crimea held referendum and decided to break away from Ukraine to join Russia?

Do you consider that to be an invasion of UKRAINE?

Did you see any military invading and forcefully annexing? i did not.

May be we are reading and watching different source's??

A referendum with no independent scrutiny.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[rickirs]

Some TV readers dispute that Russia invaded Crimea because the Russian military was already in the Crimea by invitation.

If I invite you into my house, you don't become the owner. If I lease my house to you, you don't become the owner.

Ukraine never granted Russia jurisdiction or sovereignty over any part of Eastern Ukraine, including Crimea.

-In 1991 after the collapse of the USSR, the Crimea became part of independent Ukraine. At that time Ukraine had on its territory what was the third largest strategic nuclear weapons arsenal in the world.

-In 1992, the major part of the personnel, armaments and coastal facilities of the Fleet fell under formal jurisdiction of the newly independent Ukraine as they were situated on Ukrainian territory.

-In 1994 In Ukraine, the United States of America, Russia, and the United Kingdom signed the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances, pledging to respect Ukraine territorial integrity in return for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons.

-In 1997, Russia and Ukraine signed the Partition Treaty, wherein Ukraine agreed to lease major parts of its new bases to the Russian Black Sea Fleet until 2017, including the Russian occupied portion of the Ukrainian seaport of Sevastopol. .

-In 2009 the Yushchenko Ukrainian government declared that the lease would not be extended and that the Russian fleet would have to leave Sevastopol by 2017. In 2010 the Russian leasehold was renegotiated with Ukraine for an extension until 2042 and an option for an additional five years until 2047.

-In 2014 almost immediately after the impeachment of Ukrainian Yanukovych and his escape to Russia, Russian armed forces moved to “secure” all Crimea. Putin now admits unmarked uniformed armed men and military vehicles that captured Ukrainian government buildings and bases were Russian armed forces.

.......Feb. 24 Russian warships blockade Ukrainian warships in Sevastopol and Novoozerne; Russian amored vehicles move out of Sevastopol to occupy Yalta on Feb. 25th.

.......Feb. 27 "Masked" gunmen seize government buildings in Simferopol

.......Mar. 1 Russian troops take control of Kerch ferry port and surround Ukrainian military until they surrender; Russian armored vehicles arrive in Armyansk and start digging trenches

.......Mar. 3 Russian warship blocks Ukrainian naval base in Feodosiya; Russian troops take civilian airfiled at Dzhankoy

.......Mar. 8 Russian troops arrive in Chonhar and start installing boundary pillars

.......Mar 9 Russian troops capture Ukrainian missle deport in Chornomorske

Does this sound like an "invitation?"

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I think the signal was raised when they invaded Ukraine. But that's probably not the only thing that you have missed.

They invaded Ukraine? Really? do you mind providing your source?

Before Russia annexed Crimea it moved its troops into Crimea that at that time was part of Ukrainian soverneighty allegedly to assure pro-Russian Ukrainian citizens' safety. When a foreign nation enters into another nation with a military force without permission, that is usually referred to as "invasion." I doubt Russia would not call it an invasion should the US military enter Russia to protect the safety of pro-American Russian citizens.

Russian forces were already in the Crimea, they have a base there.They were invited there by the Ukranians.

[Pralaad]

A referendum with no independent scrutiny.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You mean Crimeans did not care what US had to say? Or is there some law that national referendums MUST have independant scrutiny ?

Edited April 24, 2014 by Pralaad

[F430murci]

With Russia massing an estimated 40,000 to 50,000 troops under the guise of military exercises along its border with Ukraine, anxiety is running high among some of the newer members of NATO, themselves former states within the Soviet Union, regarding Russia's possible designs on territorial expansion.

Under the collective defense clause of the NATO charter, an attack on one member constitutes an attack on the entire alliance, thus obligating American involvement in any response to such an attack.

The exercises are a manifestation of that obligation.

"It sends a signal to (Russian President Vladimir) Putin his ambitions can't go as far as the NATO territory because we have this commitment to them," Nicholas Burns, a former U.S. ambassador to NATO, said in an interview with CNN on Wednesday.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/23/world/europe/us-ukraine-nato/?c=&page=2

[Scott]

A number of off-topic, troll and inflammatory posts and replies have been deleted. Please stick to the topic and respond in a respectful and intelligent way. Warnings and suspensions will be issued.

[Credo]

Crimea had an illegal election. The Crimea does not get to decide to join Russia, it is a part of the country of Ukraine. Do you think that one of the German States can decide to have an election and leave Germany and join Austria? Do you think County Cork can have an election and decide to join Iceland?

If any agreement is made with a country about giving up territory, it would need to be overseen by someone other than the invading country.

The invasion of one country is a signal and it has been acknowledged. Thus US troops are in Poland. If you have a link to anything about the Polish gov't not wanting the troops there, please let us know.

[F430murci]

The US and all of NATO has a solemn commitment to protect Poland and several other nearby countries. Russia is signaling a desire to expand its territories again.

Putting some US troops on the ground is merely a good chess move. Russia might mess with Poland, but if it messes with even a couple of hundred US troops it's a game changer.

Other than having nukes, Russia is a paper tiger. Russia spends just 10% of what the US spends on military, and is far behind in technology. LINK

44e4c.png

May be i missed it, but when did Russia signaled it was interested in expanding to Poland?

You want signals?

How about when by its invasion of the Ukrainian region called Crimea that Russia had no respect to international agreements whereby Russia recognized and respected a country's sovereignty. When Putin says he will go into ANY country whose pro-Russian citizens feel threatend by that country's government. When during WW2 and afterwards during the Cold War Russia annexed countless countries at or near its western and southern borders; when Russia annexed parts of Georgia after it invaded and fought with Georgia armed forces.

Many of the recent NATO countries like Hungary, the Czech Republic, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Slovakia, Bulgaria, and Romania still have citizens who are pro-Russian. The Russian excuse to invade Ukraine could apply to all of them. If someone breaks into your neighbors house to burglarize it, and announces he has the right to do so any anyone else's house, that sends a very strong signal that you better be prepared.

Repeating nonsense will not turn into truth.

Crimea held referendum and made their choice .

Russian troops did not invade nor did they enter, as already stated by another poster,Russian troops were already stationed there.

Naturally Russia may well send in the army when Kiev gives an order to kill all Russian speakers , just in case you missed it, it one of of the candidates for presidency has called to have all Russian speakers killed.

One has to be in serious denial to believe no Russian troops ever crossed Ukraine border prior to Crimea referendum. Neither Russians nor Ukranians seriously believe this. They do however hope Putin will stand down now and the situation will not further escalate.

What's done us done. Unfortunately, you don't really hear what Russians want, only get Putin spin. Russians are not happy and do not want any actions that will lead to further decisiveness between Russians and Ukrainians

Ukrainians are a basket case and the social issues are driven by desparate economic issues. Desparate times lead to desparate acts.

As is the case with most situations like this, the extreme outlier activists views on both sides dominate the medua attention and is not a reflection of the majority.

We were at a huge Russian/Ukraine picnic on Easter. This situation is seriously the 2 ton elephant in the room subject that both Russians and Ukrains try to avoid now. Interestingly, back in late January and February this all they talked about. Everyone is very upset by this.

Once the Vodka started flowing, there was some discussions. The discussions, however, related to Putin standing down and not taking further action. No one, and I mean not one single person, blamed US.

They view this stuff more of a brother against brother fight that is ripping the family a part.

People like you, on the other hand, are just venting based your own personal issues with or resentments against US. That's cool and all, but your views are based more on a subjective belief system than objective facts.

---------

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/01/thousands-of-russian-soldiers-cross-border-into-crimea-ukraine-reportedly-says/

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/ukraine-says-thousands-russian-troops-have-crossed-border-n41846

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/03/02/world/europe/ukraine.html?referrer=

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/15/2-dead-in-ukraine-shootout-reportedly-between-pro-russian-protesters-and/

Edited April 24, 2014 by F430murci

[Pralaad]

With Russia massing an estimated 40,000 to 50,000 troops under the guise of military exercises along its border with Ukraine, anxiety is running high among some of the newer members of NATO, themselves former states within the Soviet Union, regarding Russia's possible designs on territorial expansion.

Under the collective defense clause of the NATO charter, an attack on one member constitutes an attack on the entire alliance, thus obligating American involvement in any response to such an attack.

The exercises are a manifestation of that obligation.

"It sends a signal to (Russian President Vladimir) Putin his ambitions can't go as far as the NATO territory because we have this commitment to them," Nicholas Burns, a former U.S. ambassador to NATO, said in an interview with CNN on Wednesday.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/23/world/europe/us-ukraine-nato/?c=&page=2

Yes Russia has so many troops on the border under the guise of military exercise, so to de-escalate the situation US has decided to bring 450 soldiers to Russian border?

Has any of the EU countries felt threatened or asked for US help or protection?

So far, Germany, France, Bulgaria and a few others, have been in close contact with Russia to normalize the situation and rectify any misunderstandings.

Was Poland ever invaded by Russia or was under threat to be invaded?

Any reason why US does not run the drills in say Holland or other neighboring countries not so close to Russia?

I mean, common really, we are all grown ups and have access to all sorts of information to be able to sort through masquerade

Relying solely on Western media would be silly, because all you are getting is one way propaganda. You may not believe Russian press is free, but it is worth watching even if you do not understand, just to see and hear the other side and then make the judgement.

[Pralaad]

RT times is an extremely biased media source. Obviously.

And here we go again, no more biased than cnn or any other Western Media.

Just another side of the story which Western media does not report, because otherwise it would make US and some EU countries look pretty damn foolish

[F430murci]

One has to be in serious denial to believe no Russian troops ever crossed Ukraine border prior to Crimea referendum. Neither Russians nor Ukranians seriously believe this. They do however hope Putin will stand down now and the situation will not further escalate.

What's done us done. Unfortunately, you don't really hear what Russians want, only get Putin spin. Russians are not happy and do not want any actions that will lead to further decisiveness between Russians and Ukranians. Ukranians are a basket case and the social issues are driven by desparate economic issues. Desparate times lead to desparate acts.

As is the case with most situations like this, the extreme outlier activists views on both sides dominate the medua attention and is not a reflection of the majority.

We were at a huge Russian/Ukraine picnic on Easter. This situation is seriously the 2 ton elephant in the room subject that both Russians and Ukrains try to avoid now. Interestingly, back in Late January and February this all they talked about.

Once the Vodka started flowing, there was some discussions. The discussions, however, related to Putin standing down and not taking further action. No one, and I mean not one single person, blamed US.

They view this stuff more of a brother against brother fight that is roping the family a part.

People like you, on the other hand, are just venting based your own personal issues with or resentments against US. That's cool and all, but your views are based more on a subjective belief system than objective facts.

---------

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/01/thousands-of-russian-soldiers-cross-border-into-crimea-ukraine-reportedly-says/

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/ukraine-says-thousands-russian-troops-have-crossed-border-n41846

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/03/02/world/europe/ukraine.html?referrer=

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/15/2-dead-in-ukraine-shootout-reportedly-between-pro-russian-protesters-and/

Russian troops were always in Crimea, they had a base there, this has already been covered endless times

Evasive. Of course they were, but that was not the issue you were arguing. The post to which I responded that you deleted maintains no Russian troops crossed the border into Ukraine.

Look, I constantly heard all of the same stuff you are saying now 45 to 60 days ago from Russian family and friends back when Putin was obtaining resolutions and making his speeches. They have all since realized a lot of it was bs and they feel a bit duped. You are at least 30 days behind with your thought processes and rationales.

[F430murci]

One has to be in serious denial to believe no Russian troops ever crossed Ukraine border prior to Crimea referendum. Neither Russians nor Ukranians seriously believe this. They do however hope Putin will stand down now and the situation will not further escalate.

What's done us done. Unfortunately, you don't really hear what Russians want, only get Putin spin. Russians are not happy and do not want any actions that will lead to further decisiveness between Russians and Ukranians. Ukranians are a basket case and the social issues are driven by desparate economic issues. Desparate times lead to desparate acts.

As is the case with most situations like this, the extreme outlier activists views on both sides dominate the medua attention and is not a reflection of the majority.

We were at a huge Russian/Ukraine picnic on Easter. This situation is seriously the 2 ton elephant in the room subject that both Russians and Ukrains try to avoid now. Interestingly, back in Late January and February this all they talked about.

Once the Vodka started flowing, there was some discussions. The discussions, however, related to Putin standing down and not taking further action. No one, and I mean not one single person, blamed US.

They view this stuff more of a brother against brother fight that is roping the family a part.

People like you, on the other hand, are just venting based your own personal issues with or resentments against US. That's cool and all, but your views are based more on a subjective belief system than objective facts.

---------

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/01/thousands-of-russian-soldiers-cross-border-into-crimea-ukraine-reportedly-says/

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/ukraine-says-thousands-russian-troops-have-crossed-border-n41846

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/03/02/world/europe/ukraine.html?referrer=

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/15/2-dead-in-ukraine-shootout-reportedly-between-pro-russian-protesters-and/

Russian troops were always in Crimea, they had a base there, this has already been covered endless times

Evasive. Of course they were, but that was not the issue you were arguing. The post to which I responded that you deleted maintains no Russian troops crossed the border into Ukraine.

Look, I constantly heard all of the same stuff you are saying now 45 to 60 days ago from Russian family and friends back when Putin was obtaining resolutions and making his speeches. They have all since realized a lot of it was bs and they feel a bit duped. You are at least 30 days behind with your thought processes and rationales.

I was not arguing the issue at all, you are.

Russian troops did not cross into Crimea to invade it.

You believe Russian family are the idol to go by? Other than Russian family no one else is allowed to have opinions? and their opinion is final?

No I only listen to sensible people that are not driven by an axe to grind and that have some credibility. You are very evasive and change topic at a whim when wrong. Curious if you realize how glaring your evasiveness is?

Candidly, I don't want US troops anywhere near that shit hole conflict. Eastern Europeans are and will always be controlled by a corrupt mafia style government that will leave the common person poor and wanting. This is engrained and nothing anyone does can or will change it. I feel sorry for the common Ukrainians and Russians caught up in the malay and I and everyone with any sense hope that the situation will not get worse. Putin can pull troops back from border to diffuse the entire situation.

[Scott]

Off-topic post deleted. You can stop with personal remarks at other posters. Stick to the topic.

[craigt3365]

RT times is an extremely biased media source. Obviously.

And here we go again, no more biased than cnn or any other Western Media.

Just another side of the story which Western media does not report, because otherwise it would make US and some EU countries look pretty damn foolish

At least we can agree that RT is biased. Great stuff!