Stop paying AC costs. New Way.

[uptoyoumyfriend]

travelling in india i saw some clever contraptions.

outside the window a cage from chicken wire was constructed to cover the open window and duly covered with straw or old blankets.and watered with a trickle from above to keep the straw wet.the evaporation thus cooled the straw and the fan placed inside the open window blew the cold air from inside the contraption into the room.better efficiency imho. as the energy needed to get the water is far less than the cooling effect by evaporation compared to a ac unit. mold could be an issue in a humid climate. also the idea could be improved upon quite a bit.

Edited April 26, 2014 by uptoyoumyfriend

[WinnieTheKhwai]

And then once the cool season hits, there is lots more money to be saved.

This is the prototype, but if we could somehow leverage the power of styrofoam in this too then nobody in their right mind will still want to buy those Panasonic electric showers!

[gypsyrodeo]

And then once the cool season hits, there is lots more money to be saved.

This is the prototype, but if we could somehow leverage the power of styrofoam in this too then nobody in their right mind will still want to buy those Panasonic electric showers!

edison,einstein,sir isaac newton,choko,WinnieTheKwai, gypsy rodeo and tesla…GREAT MINDS THINK ALIKE…and for all the earth is flat thinkers just remember

[Naam]

I has made simple calculation for small condo room 32 sq. meters with height of wall 3 meters (V_air = S*h = 32*3 = 96 m³)

I suppose, we would like to cool air in this room from 32 to 26 degree (Δt_air = t_air1-t_air2 = 32-26=6°C).

I suppose, we would like to heat ice from 0 to 20 degree (Δt_water = t_water2-t_water1 = 20-0=20°C).

And we would like to know how much bottles of ice we need?

This is heat balance equation:

Q_air = Q_water

C_air*m_air*Δt_air = C_water*m_water*Δt_water

m_water = (C_air*m_air*Δt_air)/(C_water*Δt_water)

m_water = (C_air*V_air*ρ_air*Δt_air)/(C_water*Δt_water) = (1,0061*96*1,2*6)/(4,19*20) = 8,2 kg of ice

So, for cooling small condo room, we need about 6-7 bottles 1.25L of ice.

equation irrelevant!

reason: main factor not taken into consideration.

main factor: heat transmission from outside and heat generation inside the condo room during cooling period.

p.s. i am too modest and polite to mention a fistful of other flaws in the equation.

[gypsyrodeo]

I has made simple calculation for small condo room 32 sq. meters with height of wall 3 meters (V_air = S*h = 32*3 = 96 m³)

I suppose, we would like to cool air in this room from 32 to 26 degree (Δt_air = t_air1-t_air2 = 32-26=6°C).

I suppose, we would like to heat ice from 0 to 20 degree (Δt_water = t_water2-t_water1 = 20-0=20°C).

And we would like to know how much bottles of ice we need?

This is heat balance equation:

Q_air = Q_water

C_air*m_air*Δt_air = C_water*m_water*Δt_water

m_water = (C_air*m_air*Δt_air)/(C_water*Δt_water)

m_water = (C_air*V_air*ρ_air*Δt_air)/(C_water*Δt_water) = (1,0061*96*1,2*6)/(4,19*20) = 8,2 kg of ice

So, for cooling small condo room, we need about 6-7 bottles 1.25L of ice.

equation irrelevant!

reason: main factor not taken into consideration.

main factor: heat transmission from outside and heat generation inside the condo room during cooling period.

p.s. i am too modest and polite to mention a fistful of other flaws in the equation.

L-dog vvvs.jpg

I'm sure you spend a lot of time with your fist full of something but I'm too polite to mention what…too bad it isn't styrofoam

[heybruce]

And then once the cool season hits, there is lots more money to be saved.

This is the prototype, but if we could somehow leverage the power of styrofoam in this too then nobody in their right mind will still want to buy those Panasonic electric showers!

At least it's based on sound thermodynamic principles.

[heybruce]

I has made simple calculation for small condo room 32 sq. meters with height of wall 3 meters (V_air = S*h = 32*3 = 96 m³)

I suppose, we would like to cool air in this room from 32 to 26 degree (Δt_air = t_air1-t_air2 = 32-26=6°C).

I suppose, we would like to heat ice from 0 to 20 degree (Δt_water = t_water2-t_water1 = 20-0=20°C).

And we would like to know how much bottles of ice we need?

This is heat balance equation:

Q_air = Q_water

C_air*m_air*Δt_air = C_water*m_water*Δt_water

m_water = (C_air*m_air*Δt_air)/(C_water*Δt_water)

m_water = (C_air*V_air*ρ_air*Δt_air)/(C_water*Δt_water) = (1,0061*96*1,2*6)/(4,19*20) = 8,2 kg of ice

So, for cooling small condo room, we need about 6-7 bottles 1.25L of ice.

you nailed it..im using 6…there are about 4 hours a day (between 3-7am that the ice has melted and I'm asleep and don't change out..but the room is cool at that time because the styrofoam ac did such a good job the other 20 hours and its cooler at night AND its still cranking against bottles with cool water in them making the air cooler than a fan EVEN AFTER ICE HAS MELTED…freezing 6 bottles of water a day vs. ac on all day..give me a break..styrofoam ac is much much better value

So you buy this but you don't buy bobo42's math in post #5. Why am I not surprised?

breaker, you omitted the heat of fusion, which is where you will get the most heat absorption when the ice changes from solid to liquid. That's the good news.

The bad news, as Naam pointed out, is that you are treating your room as a closed system, which it clearly isn't. Even well insulated rooms lose or gain heat through the ceiling, walls, floor, windows, etc. as the room temperature equalizes with the external environment, and most rooms in Thailand are not well insulated.

In addition, every warm bodied creature and current drawing device in your condo is generating heat, which also must be offset. One of these current drawing devices is your freezer, and as I pointed out in post #70 your freezer is an electric heater, it generates more heat in freezing water than it removes from the water. The harder you make it work freezing and re-freezing water the more you will heat your condo.

[gypsyrodeo]

hey bruce will find something wrong with all the 21st century scientists

[realthaideal]

Amazing inventions.... in CHIANG MAI. Let's not forget this is pertaining to revolutionary ideas here, that stand up here, that break ground here, that change the world here.

I'm already counting 10, 9, 8, 7, ....

[gypsyrodeo]

im so tired of gas stoves

[gypsyrodeo]

<----------------- when they came up w/ the title "Advanced Member" they were thinking of me.

[naboo]

i just don't think you understand the science of styrofoam..its complicated..engineering is child's play by comparison

Post of the decade.

[Thaddeus]

<----------------- when they came up w/ the title "Advanced Member" they were thinking of me.

In the English language the word 'advanced' can also carry the same undertones as the word 'special'

[4x4 CNX]

Another way to save money is to replace the "old" aircon with newest aircon called "Inverter". Any brand has it, any Btu available, much less consumption compare with traditional aircon. ;-)

[gypsyrodeo]

time for a little house cleaning

[Dellboy218]

Another way to save money is to replace the "old" aircon with newest aircon called "Inverter". Any brand has it, any Btu available, much less consumption compare with traditional aircon. ;-)

But are they? I have just bought a new aircon and spent a little time looking at the figures. Now I may be looking at this the wrong way but looking at the ...btu per watt per hour.... the inverter aircon of the size I waslooking at had a range of about 9 to about 20 with an average of 11.9. The non inverteraircon which was another 1000btu larger had a btu per watt per hour of 11.7. On those figures ....virtually the same. An inverter does give a soft start though which maybe advantageous to those using steel frames to mount the condenser unit to a wall.

[onthedarkside]

Off topic and inflammatory post removed, plus all the replies removed.

[gypsyrodeo]

Off topic and inflammatory post removed, plus all the replies removed.

thank you for doing the right thing..now i can relax in my new pool

[bobo42]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

A single 12000 BTU air conditioner running for 24 hours will have the same cooling power as melting approximately 2000 lbs of ice. That equals about 30 frozen 1.25L coke bottles per cooling hour.

My very small house has 4 AC units with a combined capacity of 63k BTU (which is just enough in the hot season). So, I would need to have a ready source of 159 frozen coke bottles per operating hour to cool my house to a similar temperature as my current AC system. Depending on the outside temperature, I'd venture a guess that I would need around 1500-1900 frozen bottles per day in total. Unless I have a really really cheap and reliable ice supplier, I think I'll stick to normal AC.

This is based on a 24 hr running AC. Most people do not run the AC 24 hrs a day.

So no argument here. Let's see I just watch a video with a average block of Ice cooling capacity for 10 hrs a day.

Also running on a solar panel?

Thus making your argument null.

Personally I am going to make a bunch of these and start saving funds for a trip to the Artic.

Not so. These numbers are based on a run-cycle of less than half the time. Less than 10-12hours of running time at the cooling capacity of my AC units will consume the mentioned 1500-1900 bottles. If you compared to compressors running 24h, then you'd need 3816 frozen 1.25L bottles per 24 hour period.

Am I running solar? No. Thus not making my argument anything... I made no arguments regarding solar. My argument is that this "system" is not even close to being a reasonable alternative to and AC system. The source of power is irrelevant, unless you claiming that the ice in the video was produced using only free solar power. I didn't see that claim.

You will most certainly need that trip to the arctic. Bring a couple of suitcases full of ice back, it'll net you a few hours of cooling time.

[gypsyrodeo]

leave it to jocko…genius

[daoyai]

bottom line (?) if you have air con and want to cool the whole apt. or house, use it. If no have air and you are too hot, ice cooler fan box will cool you down for cheap. .... reminds me of an old cliche saying I heard on an indian res. years ago, " the white man builds a big fire and sits far away, the indian builds a small fire and sits close.

[nivram4491]

bottom line (?) if you have air con and want to cool the whole apt. or house, use it. If no have air and you are too hot, ice cooler fan box will cool you down for cheap. .... reminds me of an old cliche saying I heard on an indian res. years ago, " the white man builds a big fire and sits far away, the indian builds a small fire and sits close.

It's also interesting to note that there are no comments about the earth's resources being finite and the need to use the remaining resources wisely, sometimes at the cost of a little personal comfort.

Everybody complains about the heavy pollution but nobody seems to make the connection with coal fire electricity generation plants belching out the dirty smoke to keep the personal air conitioners running day and night.

I made one of the contraptions 2 days ago. It works really well but not as a room or house cooling air conditioner. It was very easy to fit a Filtrete filter to the intake. After running 1 day the filter is already turning gray so it cleans the air as well as cools it. As far as the energy required, the fan is 37 watts plus the energy required to freeze the water. I have a large freezer so I don't think there is a huge additional cost to freeze the water in the bottles.

For one person sitting in one spot, say on a computer, watching TV or reading a book, it works really well. I have decided to only use it for a few hours in the late afternoon. For the rest of the day the house is reasonably comfortable using the everything open at night to cool the house down and in the day everything closed method to slow down the heating up of the house during the day.

I have 3 bedrooms with 3 air conditioners, but I rarely ever use any of them. I use 2 fans placed at 2 windows on the opposite sides of my bedroom. One fan pulls the cooler outside air in and the other fan pushes the hotter room air out. This sets up a pleasant circulation of cooler air in the room and over the bed. By the time I am ready to go to bed a few hours after turning the fans on, the room is comfortable for me. I personally find an air conditioner running in a room uncomfortable and find it difficult to sleep.

[sirineou]

@bobo42…you're hilarious! The way you throw around numbers ...

If I didn't see it work I would probably fall for your engineer poseur missive. Very funny stuff

For all of you who would like to take this subject seriously, please note that all my friend does is freeze 6 one liter bottles of water. He takes 2 out at a time and puts them in the styrofoam container. It takes them a couple of hours to melt; when they do, he takes them out, puts them back in the freezer and takes 2 more out, and put them in the styrofoam container and rotates on that schedule.

Remember to place the 2 bottles about 5 inches away from the PVC tube so the air hits on the way out. You'll be shocked on how cold it is….

And the refrigerator that makes the ice runs for free?

[gypsyrodeo]

@mentally ill SIRENOU..we have already covered that..yes there is a minor cost to freezing ice..its about 5 percent of the cost to run a real ac…i think the REAL new news is that it can serve as an air purifier WHILE cooling your room…see the post above yours…also now that i have mine i realize that it only takes 4 frozen bottles a day because of the science of STYROFOAM…my friend choko has been using this method of cooling for over a year (he built mine) …he cut his electric bill by 2/3…I'm cranking mine up now and am going to do a little weight lifting.

Edited April 28, 2014 by gypsyrodeo

[nivram4491]

bottom line (?) if you have air con and want to cool the whole apt. or house, use it. If no have air and you are too hot, ice cooler fan box will cool you down for cheap. .... reminds me of an old cliche saying I heard on an indian res. years ago, " the white man builds a big fire and sits far away, the indian builds a small fire and sits close.

It's also interesting to note that there are no comments about the earth's resources being finite and the need to use the remaining resources wisely, sometimes at the cost of a little personal comfort.

Everybody complains about the heavy pollution but nobody seems to make the connection with coal fire electricity generation plants belching out the dirty smoke to keep the personal air conitioners running day and night.

I made one of the contraptions 2 days ago. It works really well but not as a room or house cooling air conditioner. It was very easy to fit a Filtrete filter to the intake. After running 1 day the filter is already turning gray so it cleans the air as well as cools it. As far as the energy required, the fan is 37 watts plus the energy required to freeze the water. I have a large freezer so I don't think there is a huge additional cost to freeze the water in the bottles.

For one person sitting in one spot, say on a computer, watching TV or reading a book, it works really well. I have decided to only use it for a few hours in the late afternoon. For the rest of the day the house is reasonably comfortable using the everything open at night to cool the house down and in the day everything closed method to slow down the heating up of the house during the day.

I have 3 bedrooms with 3 air conditioners, but I rarely ever use any of them. I use 2 fans placed at 2 windows on the opposite sides of my bedroom. One fan pulls the cooler outside air in and the other fan pushes the hotter room air out. This sets up a pleasant circulation of cooler air in the room and over the bed. By the time I am ready to go to bed a few hours after turning the fans on, the room is comfortable for me. I personally find an air conditioner running in a room uncomfortable and find it difficult to sleep.

This is a photo of my personal cooler. Even running it without any ice is better than running a normal fan because you can precisely direct the blown air to the area you want - your chest for example. Also, the air is cleaner due to the filter which removes a lot of the small particles.

Total cost was 380 Baht without the styrofoam box, as I already had one and can't remember what I paid for it.

With 3 one liter frozen ice bottles the air stream temperature is 4 to 5 degrees Celsius coooler than the normal air stream with no cooling.

[heybruce]

bottom line (?) if you have air con and want to cool the whole apt. or house, use it. If no have air and you are too hot, ice cooler fan box will cool you down for cheap. .... reminds me of an old cliche saying I heard on an indian res. years ago, " the white man builds a big fire and sits far away, the indian builds a small fire and sits close.

True. If you go to the YouTube video that all this is based on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3YvF4eVQO0#t=13 it states "great for space cooling (in vehicle or small room)". It does not claim that this is replacement for air conditioning.

Also, as I explained in post #70, you won't be able to cool any area, large or small, if you freeze the ice in the same area that you are using this device; you will be heating the area and paying for the electricity to do so.

[T_Dog]

I don't think the math works out that well on the cooler-cooler. My 12,000 BTU air conditioner draws 1000 watts with the compressor running. Even on the hottest days, it only runs at about a 50% duty cycle. So call it 500 watts per hour or about 2 baht per hour with the current rates of about 4 baht per kilowatt hour. If you are buying a bag of ice for 10 baht, I can cool my whole room for five hours. But the cooler-cooler does provide a place to keep your beer cold!

[heybruce]

bottom line (?) if you have air con and want to cool the whole apt. or house, use it. If no have air and you are too hot, ice cooler fan box will cool you down for cheap. .... reminds me of an old cliche saying I heard on an indian res. years ago, " the white man builds a big fire and sits far away, the indian builds a small fire and sits close.

It's also interesting to note that there are no comments about the earth's resources being finite and the need to use the remaining resources wisely, sometimes at the cost of a little personal comfort.

Everybody complains about the heavy pollution but nobody seems to make the connection with coal fire electricity generation plants belching out the dirty smoke to keep the personal air conitioners running day and night.

I made one of the contraptions 2 days ago. It works really well but not as a room or house cooling air conditioner. It was very easy to fit a Filtrete filter to the intake. After running 1 day the filter is already turning gray so it cleans the air as well as cools it. As far as the energy required, the fan is 37 watts plus the energy required to freeze the water. I have a large freezer so I don't think there is a huge additional cost to freeze the water in the bottles.

For one person sitting in one spot, say on a computer, watching TV or reading a book, it works really well. I have decided to only use it for a few hours in the late afternoon. For the rest of the day the house is reasonably comfortable using the everything open at night to cool the house down and in the day everything closed method to slow down the heating up of the house during the day.

I have 3 bedrooms with 3 air conditioners, but I rarely ever use any of them. I use 2 fans placed at 2 windows on the opposite sides of my bedroom. One fan pulls the cooler outside air in and the other fan pushes the hotter room air out. This sets up a pleasant circulation of cooler air in the room and over the bed. By the time I am ready to go to bed a few hours after turning the fans on, the room is comfortable for me. I personally find an air conditioner running in a room uncomfortable and find it difficult to sleep.

"It's also interesting to note that there are no comments about the earth's resources being finite and the need to use the remaining resources wisely..."

As I explained in post #70, you generate more heat in freezing the ice than you remove from the room when the ice melts. The end result is that the electricity you use is heating your house/condo/apartment. Since your objective is cooling, that's really wasteful.

"I have a large freezer so I don't think there is a huge additional cost to freeze the water in the bottles."

The additional cost may be small compared to the overall cost of running the freezer, but you are sill generating more heat in freezing the water than you are absorbing when the ice melts.

Using this device to cool a small area is cheaper than running three air conditioners to cool a large house. However if you want to cool an entire room you are better off running an air conditioner. As I also explained in post #70, an indoor freezer rearranges the heat distribution inside the living area, and generates heat in the process. An air conditioner takes heat from inside the living area and dumps it outside.

[heybruce]

@mentally ill SIRENOU..we have already covered that..yes there is a minor cost to freezing ice..its about 5 percent of the cost to run a real ac…i think the REAL new news is that it can serve as an air purifier WHILE cooling your room…see the post above yours…also now that i have mine i realize that it only takes 4 frozen bottles a day because of the science of STYROFOAM…my friend choko has been using this method of cooling for over a year (he built mine) …he cut his electric bill by 2/3…I'm cranking mine up now and am going to do a little weight lifting.

Will you show us the math that leads to your 5% claim?

"see the post above" refers to post #112 which states "For one person sitting in one spot, say on a computer, watching TV or reading a book, it works really well." It doesn't say it's suitable for cooling or filtering the air in an entire room.

You never described the accommodation your friend choko lives in or how he cooled his place before using the device. If he has reduced electricity usage by 2/3 he is now living in hotter accommodations or found other ways to cut electricity use. Is he getting his ice for free?

[gypsyrodeo]

so don't cool yourself with the amazing STYROFOAM ac where you have your freezer..problem solved..BONUS= purified air by using the air filter…jocko is now building a truck that doesn't need gas..will this work?