Forkinhades Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 6 Yep East as well Sounds like you need 3 separate UPS's, each one about 1200VA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I'd put an AVR on the microwave (cheaper than a UPS) which should hopefully mitigate any brownouts. Or just do as we do, don't bother resetting the clock, it still microwaves just fine and there's a clock on the wall. Definitely UPS the PC, it can save so much heartache. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forkinhades Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 ^ Indeed UPS your PC, as all these power cuts are really not very good for your harddrives. I have a very simple, but effective UPS which stabilizes the voltage at the same time, if the power goes off, then my Network Attached Storage (NAS Drive) will start to shut down after 10 mins ( User configured ). Saves all my data automatically. More importantly is that all my IT equipment is running at 225-230V. It is indeed a regular occurance that after 10pm the voltage drops to 190-200V, a little concerning really. This nice little unit is 650va, and has a 7Ah Battery inside, which will happily run my monitor, pc, nas, and router for 20 mins. All you need to do is plug it in to a socket, and then plug your equipment into 3 x socket outputs on the back. Really cannot get much simpler than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseFrank Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 ^ Indeed UPS your PC, as all these power cuts are really not very good for your harddrives. I have a very simple, but effective UPS which stabilizes the voltage at the same time, if the power goes off, then my Network Attached Storage (NAS Drive) will start to shut down after 10 mins ( User configured ). Saves all my data automatically. More importantly is that all my IT equipment is running at 225-230V. It is indeed a regular occurance that after 10pm the voltage drops to 190-200V, a little concerning really. 20140605_003201-1.jpg This nice little unit is 650va, and has a 7Ah Battery inside, which will happily run my monitor, pc, nas, and router for 20 mins. All you need to do is plug it in to a socket, and then plug your equipment into 3 x socket outputs on the back. Really cannot get much simpler than that. The UPS you picture in your post is a Leonics OA 650 VA which produces 390 Watt. How would that be able to run all the devices you name at all, unless you use a different UPS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 The UPS you picture in your post is a Leonics OA 650 VA which produces 390 Watt. How would that be able to run all the devices you name at all, unless you use a different UPS Just grabbing some figures off the net (I don't know Forky's actual configuration):- 23" monitor 36W Router 10W NAS 40W Total 86W leaving 310W for a desktop PC, easily achievable. EDIT UPS internal battery is 7Ah @ 24V = 168Watt Hours. If it maintains for 20 minutes that equates to 168*3 Watts = 504 Watts for 20 mins. In reality it's not that good due to inefficiencies in the UPS inverter and the sealed lead-acid batteries, but even at 50% I see no reason to doubt Forky's statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseFrank Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) The UPS you picture in your post is a Leonics OA 650 VA which produces 390 Watt. How would that be able to run all the devices you name at all, unless you use a different UPS Just grabbing some figures off the net (I don't know Forky's actual configuration):- 23" monitor 36W Router 10W NAS 40W Total 86W leaving 310W for a desktop PC, easily achievable. EDIT UPS internal battery is 7Ah @ 24V = 168Watt Hours. If it maintains for 20 minutes that equates to 168*3 Watts = 504 Watts for 20 mins. In reality it's not that good due to inefficiencies in the UPS inverter and the sealed lead-acid batteries, but even at 50% I see no reason to doubt Forky's statement. The UPS has a 7A/ 12V battery, so only 84 Watt hours Why you use the *3 multiplier ? How does one calculates how long it can carry a certain load ? Edit: forget about those 2 last questions, had a senior moment. But with those specs it means it can provide 252 Watt for 20 minutes in best case scenario. Edited June 5, 2014 by JesseFrank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forkinhades Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Its main purpose is to save my data on my NAS, as the main pc is hardly used now, but when it is used the supply voltage us correct. This is very low end I might add, but serves my purpose well. You can go the Leonics site and get much larger va, just watch the cost rocket. You can of course build one yourself, something that a few people have done on here using HGV lorry batteries and and invertors. Sent from my SM-G900F using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseFrank Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) Its main purpose is to save my data on my NAS, as the main pc is hardly used now, but when it is used the supply voltage us correct. This is very low end I might add, but serves my purpose well. You can go the Leonics site and get much larger va, just watch the cost rocket. You can of course build one yourself, something that a few people have done on here using HGV lorry batteries and and invertors. Sent from my SM-G900F using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Inverter was my intention, problem is to find a reliable inverter that switches fast enough, at an affordable price. If you have any suggestion it will be welcomed. By the way I was yesterday at Hardware House in Rayong, and they had UPS with ( I forgot the exact numbers) 650va 390 Watt and 650 Va 450 Watt, I assume that mean that in the latter one the battery has more capacity, right ? Edited June 5, 2014 by JesseFrank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forkinhades Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 No battery cappacity is measured aH. Try to get a continuous UPS system, like the one I suggested. This means that the supply is coming via the batteries so there is no switchover time. Just trying to keep things simple here. I feel a sticky coming up. Sent from my SM-G900F using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyf Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 My money's still on brownouts Jesse. We're not talking about long failures, just a few missing cycles or a period of low voltage that most kit will happily bridge over, your microwave and PC seem to be particularly sensitive. Without power monitoring kit it's difficult to come to any better conclusion. Get a UPS, with a desktop PC you need one anyway. EDIT Do you have a means of measuring your supply voltage, it could already be low making your PSU work even nearer its limit. We used to get voltage drops quite regularly but not for some time now. Electronic devices pick them up immediately but generally there was only a flicker on the lights. Sometimes they would be a few minutes, the lights would stay on and the fans, fridge etc would shut down, quite weird. No breakers ever tripped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyf Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) Its main purpose is to save my data on my NAS, as the main pc is hardly used now, but when it is used the supply voltage us correct. This is very low end I might add, but serves my purpose well. You can go the Leonics site and get much larger va, just watch the cost rocket. You can of course build one yourself, something that a few people have done on here using HGV lorry batteries and and invertors. Sent from my SM-G900F using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Inverter was my intention, problem is to find a reliable inverter that switches fast enough, at an affordable price. If you have any suggestion it will be welcomed. By the way I was yesterday at Hardware House in Rayong, and they had UPS with ( I forgot the exact numbers) 650va 390 Watt and 650 Va 450 Watt, I assume that mean that in the latter one the battery has more capacity, right ? Indirectly - yes. Your figures will be input/output, so the latter has a greater output. The output of a UPS is AC so it cannot come directly from the battery, DC from the battery is inverted to provide AC output. At 240 volts the latter would be capable of an output current in the order of 1.9 amps as opposed to 1.6 amps from the former. The 450 watt would need a larger battery to provide the higher output current The input circuit would effectively be a battery charger so input power is the same. The fact that it is quoted in Va rather than watts indicates it is inductive load as opposed to resistive load. Edited June 5, 2014 by sandyf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseFrank Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) Ok the following I was looking at in Hardware house APC CS 650VA 400 W Asean https://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BK650-AS It seems that it has a 9 A battery, so 2 A heavier than the Leonics. https://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=RBC17&tab=models Yet it tells you that if you use 300 Watt, it lasts for 8 minutes only. http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=29&tab=models Edited June 5, 2014 by JesseFrank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 (edited) Ok the following I was looking at in Hardware house APC CS 650VA 400 W Asean https://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BK650-AS It seems that it has a 9 A battery, so 2 A heavier than the Leonics. https://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=RBC17&tab=models Yet it tells you that if you use 300 Watt, it lasts for 8 minutes only. http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=29&tab=models 9Ah @ 12vdc = 108 watt hours, add in inverter losses, 50% Depth of Discharge, and some safety margin so aged batteries sill achieve claims, and it probably makes sense.. Edit: Some math: 108 watt hours @ 50% DOD = 54 watt hours less 20% for inverter loss = 43 watt hours 43 watt hours @300w load = 8.64 minutes The key with these things is that you can only discharge lead acid batteries max. 50% or you will seriously impact their lifespan. In off-grid solar, good systems will only discharge batteries 20% in order to achieve better battery life. Edited June 6, 2014 by IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseFrank Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 No battery cappacity is measured aH. Try to get a continuous UPS system, like the one I suggested. This means that the supply is coming via the batteries so there is no switchover time. Just trying to keep things simple here. I feel a sticky coming up. Sent from my SM-G900F using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Any suggestions for a suitable inverter which switches under 10ms ? The Leonics is line interactive, which has a switch time of less than 10ms. Only online UPS, which are considerable more expensive are continuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 No battery cappacity is measured aH. Try to get a continuous UPS system, like the one I suggested. This means that the supply is coming via the batteries so there is no switchover time. Just trying to keep things simple here. I feel a sticky coming up. Sent from my SM-G900F using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Any suggestions for a suitable inverter which switches under 10ms ? The Leonics is line interactive, which has a switch time of less than 10ms. Only online UPS, which are considerable more expensive are continuous. The APC Back-UPS Pro range is line interactive also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseFrank Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 Quick question. The back up zones in my house is split up in 3 circuits, which together would need a 2000Va UPS. I found Leonics OA650 at 2800 Baht, which is a good price. So if I buy 3 of these can I connect them in series so that If only 1 of the 3 circuits is in use when power goes off, it has 1950 VA of power available ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Unless your UPSs are capable of parallel operation you're in for a bang and smoke One per circuit, or a big unit covering all three. Personally, having experimented with a 'whole house' UPS I'd be using small individual units on the kit that needs protecting and another that runs essential lights. Greater redundancy (failure of one unit doesn't take everything down), possibility of spreading the cost by buying essential cover first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseFrank Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 Have posted this in another topic as well. Anyone experience with Zircon UPS ? They seem to be affordable in price. a 2200 Va 1500 W = 7800 Baht. I know you normally get what you pay for, but there are exemptions. I thing Zircon is for sale at Makro, and at shop4thai at a premium ofcourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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