Degrees

[jauntyjohn]

I run a small school in Bangkok. Can anyone advise if there is any way of checking the validity of university degrees provided by prospective teachers and if a bogus one is submitted to the labour department, who is the finger pointed at and what are the implications?

Thanks.

[Hong Kong Phooey]

When I had mine checked, the school I was working for asked me to provide a letter of authority addressed to my uni confirming it was OK for the school to check with them. Even though I had the original degree and transcripts, the school went ahead and checked with my uni.

I was told by the school that they'd been burnt before by dishonest farangs and were held responsible by the MoE in Bangkok. Not sure how they resolved it.

[PeaceBlondie]

I run a small school in Bangkok. Can anyone advise if there is any way of checking the validity of university degrees provided by prospective teachers and if a bogus one is submitted to the labour department, who is the finger pointed at and what are the implications?

Thanks.

It is very difficult. Thousands of unis, different degrees, many countries. We have heard that it is the school's legal responsibility to be sure you are hiring what you say (when you apply for their work permit, for example).

Some bogus degrees are obvious on their face by the quality of the paper, type font, etc. Your students could do better.

The first responsibility is upon the applicant to provide you with an original degree which you copy (unless you're taking him with you to the labour office). Then research on the net to find the uni. See what they require to verify graduation from employers (each uni may have its own form and procedure, depending upon their local laws).

Sometimes, a fluent English speaker on your staff can phone the uni during business hours at the proper phone number listed on their website (local time, not Thai time).

It's difficult, and the Labour Dept. apparently will blame you for hiring a bogus illegal alien.

Good luck, and congratulations on your diligence to comply with the laws of Thailand.

[mijan24]

I run a small school in Bangkok. Can anyone advise if there is any way of checking the validity of university degrees provided by prospective teachers and if a bogus one is submitted to the labour department, who is the finger pointed at and what are the implications?

Thanks.

Can I ask how long you have owned the school? and is your query fuelled by a bad experience?

[kenkannif]

Hasn't really got anything to do with Labour Dept. to be honest.

Basically the new rule is the employer (the Principal actually) has to say they've checked the degree and that it's valid (how they do so seems to be down to them)...if it's then found to be fake by the MoE...said Principal could face a jail term (probably won't though).

PB,

I doubt many Unis would give info out over the phone??? Have you done this???

[Simmo]

It's the school's responsibility to check not the MOE or Labour department.

You could ask the applicant to get their embassy to certify the degree or call the registrars office of the university.

Asking them a few questions like "What was the subject of your final thesis" can often shake out a lot of the fakers.

[Loaded]

I don't think British Unis are allowed to divulge information about their graduates to a 3rd party. Something to do with the data protection act of the 1980s.

[Thaiboxer]

I believe that laws which prohibit a uni from giving out information on alumni exist in most US states. Whoever wants to work for you can simply contact their old uni and give them permission to provide you with the information you need to verify their degree. Doing it entirely on your own could be difficult. There are lots of fakes floating around out there and many are easy to spot (spelling errors, etc) but then again some look pretty legitimate.

[chownah]

If you have enough time before you choose an applicant you could ask them to submit an "official transcript". At the major university that I attended in the US an "official transcript" would be delivered sealed to the alum upon request and they are supposed to leave it unopened and still sealed when it is delivered to their prospective employer. The transcript shows all the classes taken and the grades. Of course an unofficial transcript is probably just as good because it is unlikely that a fake school would produce fake transcripts...and if they did you could ask some questions about some of the classes and try to determine if they were actually taken....

Edited June 28, 2006 by chownah

[PeaceBlondie]

Agreed, most unis are not going to verify over the phone that a certain person is an alumnus. Hopefully, their website tells you the process. "Registrar" is the officer in American universities that issues transcripts and verifies such things, but other countries may use another term. Sometimes there is a fax number or email where you can request forms, or they are available online, for the graduate to sign, giving permission for the employer in Thailand to get the information.

In real life, it's extremely difficult and time consuming. If a Thai school would conduct their employment interviews well in advance, and if the teachers didn't quit suddenly for whatever reason, there might be enough time. It was an easy trick for the government offices to shift this burden to the schools, since the govt. couldn't be bothered to do it themselves.

Schools are looking for "best qualified teachers" in each circumstance, and the good schools should be clever enough to know a good teacher when they conduct the interviews. Not all the best teachers have uni degrees in the right subject from the best unis (at least, not below 110,098 baht per month).

[Loaded]

Schools are looking for "best qualified teachers" in each circumstance, and the good schools should be clever enough to know a good teacher when they conduct the interviews. Not all the best teachers have uni degrees in the right subject from the best unis (at least, not below 110,098 baht per month).

Spot on.

I've employed many teachers in Thailand for my own school and on behalf of others for EFL positions. Schools often ask for the moon but are usually satisified with a nice, clean, enthusiastic and friendly person holding a TEFL qualification or TEFL experience (native-speaker is often overlooked if the candidate shows their language skills are stronger than the Thai interviewer).

[kenkannif]

^ And I'll third that

True enough!!!

[mbkudu]

I just thought I'd add my personal experience concerning validation of diplomas, degrees and transcripts. It is not hard to have them checked here. In order for me to register and receive my student ID card from the the university I attend here I must go to the Ministry of Education to have my high school diploma (original) and sealed transcript certified by them. I did this just today. I filled out their form, provided two photos, my transcript and diploma which they copied and gave me back the original and 500 baht. The woman at the counter, Ms. Mathuroth, said it will take one month for the process. The MOE contacts my high school to verify the authenticity of my paperwork, and then they will give me a certified document to give to my university here.

Employers here could ask a prospective employee to take his degree and transcripts to this MOE office and do the same. So, it is possible and can be done at the MOE. In one month I will follow up.

One more note. At first my university told me to go to my embassy to have the documents certified, but my embassy (USA) stopped doing this back in 1983. This is straight from the paperwork the US Embassy gave me: 'Consular officers are not empowered to authenticate public documents issued in the United States or abroad.' (They're not helpful for much of anything actually except for providing tax forms )

[Ijustwannateach]

I brought a number of sealed transcripts with me and still have a small supply. Some places have become very paranoid and won't even accept these anymore (though I doubt KSR stuff would be printed *that* well). Anyway, what you have to do then is provide some sort of release form to the school to send the uni, or send or fax a request yourself for the documents to be released (plus whatever fees are necessary). Naturally, you would need to prove that you were you- social security numbers, birthdays, etc., etc.

[mbkudu]

I brought a number of sealed transcripts with me and still have a small supply. Some places have become very paranoid and won't even accept these anymore (though I doubt KSR stuff would be printed *that* well). Anyway, what you have to do then is provide some sort of release form to the school to send the uni, or send or fax a request yourself for the documents to be released (plus whatever fees are necessary). Naturally, you would need to prove that you were you- social security numbers, birthdays, etc., etc.

This is correct. I signed a release form that the MOE will show my high school. They will then compare what information each has and then the MOE will decide whether to certify my documents or not. A lot of people here think that 'someone' like the MOE, the school hiring here, the government here or the prospective employee here is 'responsible' for checking out degrees. Really though it's the responsibility of whoever wants to know the validity of the degree. In my case it is the Thai university here that wants to know if my high school transcripts and degree are real. It is kind of sh!tty that they are making me do all the leg work at the MOE, but whatever; so far it has been trouble free and the people who work there are very helpful.

[PeaceBlondie]

I just checked for my transcript source, on the web (you have to know where to go, for one thing). Turns out that they're free! The ones I've always gotten before, however, were disgustingly poor looking; Kao Sahn Road could make much better. Just for fun, I'm going to order two copies.

But really, what use will it be to show that I got grades in "church administration" or "social psychology" thirty-five years ago, on an island in Texas?

[Dakhar]

Galveston, Tx? Nice place, but kinda hard to find a good restaraunt that really warrants the prices there. Miss my days of SE Tx living. I grew up in the bayous of SE TX, La. border area

[PeaceBlondie]

Galveston, Tx? Nice place, but kinda hard to find a good restaraunt that really warrants the prices there. Miss my days of SE Tx living. I grew up in the bayous of SE TX, La. border area

Good guess, but there are at least THREE island undergraduate campuses in Texas along the coast: Galveston, Corpus Christi, and South Padre Island.

That's partly what makes it hard for employers to know the level or tier of American university where you earned a degree. Literally a couple thousand campuses. So, an official transcript with course names and grades might help clarify your earned education.