Get off your high horse, America, we do not need a ride: Thai opinion

[webfact]

TELL IT AS IT IS
Get off your high horse, America, we do not need a ride
Pornpimol Kanchanalak
Special to The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The Thais collectively have made a mess of their political system." The patronising words, with a typically blinkered anti-coup undertone, come from an American academician. Like him, his government has since May 22 been preaching down to Thailand, the country that in 1833 signed a bilateral Treaty of Amity and Commerce with the US, becoming the first Asian nation to establish formal diplomatic relations with America.

For a nation whose legislative branch last month received a lowly 7 per cent approval rating, the lowest in Gallup Poll history, from a public disillusioned and dissatisfied with its political paralysis and ultra-partisan politics, the term "political mess" is surely a better applied as a self-depiction.

According to the same poll but in the opposite direction, the American military is enjoying a high public confidence rating of 74 per cent.

Political mudslinging was described by Libby Copeland of the Washington Post in 2008 as a "messy American tradition". But it was nothing new. Winston Churchill had, long before, referred to the American system of democracy as "messy".

The term "dirt diggers" has found its way into the American political lexicon. These diggers have also found their way into prestigious Congressional offices as well as the White House. The increasingly obscene infusion of finances into elections, both local and national, exemplifies the darker side of American democracy - the money politics.

How bad has it got? So bad that there was a Congressman who stored banknotes wrapped in aluminium foil in the freezer of the refrigerator in his office. When a family member of a senator was asked by her incredulous friend how the incident could have come about, her honest answer was, "It has always been this way," referring to paying off members of Congress.

Another inconvenient truth of American politics is the shambolic political gridlock that has made the term "fiscal cliff" well known throughout the world. The dreadful polarisation of American politics has turned the world's initial fascination with the American experiments in democracy into pity for its hapless governance.

In 2013, the Economist published an article titled "The United States of Amoeba". It was based on an experiment in applied physics by Renzo Lucioni, an undergraduate at Harvard University School of Engineering and Applied Science. It presented a graphic illustration of how polarised and partisan American politics had become. According to the article, it looked like "a diseased brain, with few neural pathways between the two hemispheres".

It is also worth mentioning that the brutal invasion of Iraq prompted many Americans to confide to friends overseas that they wished they could have a military coup to throw away their government. They just could not stand the notion of the demise of thousands and thousands of innocent Iraqi lives at the hands of their government.

The American Civil Liberties Union most recent report, "War Comes Home: The Excessive Militarisation of American Policing", outlines incident after incident of the dangerous militarisation of US law enforcement at all levels in recent years. Heavily armed SWAT teams have been deployed to serve warrants and for drug searches, but rarely for the hostage situations they were designed for.

A few of the incidents highlighted in the report:

l "In 2010, 7-year-old when, just after midnight, a SWAT team threw a flashbang grenade through the window into the living room where she was asleep. The flashbang burned her blanket and a member of the SWAT team burst into the house, firing a single shot, which killed her."

l Jose Guerena, a 26-year-old Iraq War veteran, whose wife heard a noise that turned out to be a SWAT team. Guerena "picked up his rifle, with the safety on, and went to investigate. A SWAT team fired 71 shots at Guerena, 22 of which entered his body and killed him".

In Thailand, we have had our fair share of social and political turmoil in recent years. A military coup may or may not offer a sustainable solution to our own multifaceted problems generated by and clothed in the lofty notion of "democracy". But we need to fix our problems before they become permanently stuck. This is our ship, not that of Unites States or the European Union, and we sink or swim with it, while no one else shares our fate.

In answering a hypothetical question on Thailand and its relations with superpowers by an American interviewer in the 1970s, then prime minister Kukrit Pramoj deadpanned: "If that happened, I'd go to the airport and drive a stake into the ground that said 'Closed for Repairs'."

On Tuesday, former prime minister Anand Panyarachun - a man renowned for his integrity and wisdom - echoed Kukrit's sentiment, which also reflects the view of the majority of Thais. According to the latest polls, the public satisfaction rate with our military leaders during the past month is higher than 80 percent.

As for the US, there is no shortage of miscalculations when it comes to its foreign policy. Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran and Syria are but four of them. The rapid surge of the militant ISIS Sunni forces is one result of the push by the US for Iraqis to hold untimely elections without circumstances on the ground that could bring lasting democratic rule. To paraphrase the German philosopher Emanuel Kant (1724-1804), out of crooked timber, no straight thing was ever made. By now, the US should have learned that an election is not a panacea. But apparently it has not.

Instead, despite its own political mess at home, the US has got on its high horse and preached to us. It calls to mind the words of the late Andy Gibb of the Bee Gees:

"I started a joke

Which started the whole world crying

But I didn't see

That the joke was on me, oh no…"


-- The Nation 2014-06-26

[Mango Bob]

Then why ever morning at the American Embassy their are long lines of people who want to come to this country. Answer that. We must be doing something right.

[siampolee]

What was it John Wayne said?

Or perhaps it was Gary Cooper who said it.

"Get off your horse and drink your milk"

Edited June 25, 2014 by siampolee

[terryp]

Thailand really does suffer from delusions of grandeur….its laughable one of the most corrupt country’s in se asia, a terrible human rights record even on its own people, a system that accepts and promotes prostitution of all genders etc…Thailand the hub of 3^rd world laughs

[borisloosebrain]

What a load of %#^}*{+. IMHO

[canuckamuck]

The writer had a chance to make a point here. unfortunately the article is a smattering of negativity from Google searches with no coherent connection.

Yes Thailand you have made a mess of your politics, just admit it and try to fix it. Deflection to America will not make any difference.

Just because America has it's own problems doesn't mean they and the rest of the world can't see yours.

[NongKhaiKid]

We don't need the US or the EU and if Japanese businesses pull out because of politics, flooding ow whatever we don't need them either.

In fact we don't need anybody as we have ourselves and Thainess and as a line in an old song goes " who could ask for anything more ? ".

[Robby nz]

Add to that their current financial performance with their economy shrinking 2.9% in the first 3 months (BKK Post today)

Even with all the problems Thailand did better than that.

[siampolee]

terryp post # 4

Thailand really does suffer from delusions of grandeur….its laughable one of the most corrupt country’s in se asia, a terrible human rights record even on its own people, a system that accepts and promotes prostitution of all genders etc…Thailand the hub of 3^rd world laughs

The western worlds nations in general really do suffer from delusions of grandeur….its laughable some one of the most corrupt countries in the western world with dubious human rights record even on its own people let alone other sovereign states and with systems that accept and promotes prostitution and the forced acceptance of all genders yet discriminate against religious creeds etc can criticise other nations. The Western worlds nations in general are indeed hypocrites and the laughing stock of the remainder of the world.

Edited June 26, 2014 by siampolee

[ToYoungToRetire]

Obama spent $1,000,000,000.00 Dollars (31,000,000,000 baht) on his re-election campaign. How does a man get that much money?

Big corporations have owned our politicians for decades, our Politicians are merely puppets to distract us and keep us from having to deal with the horrible truth.

6 companies own/control %90 of all Television/new/radio/cable networks owned by the ultra Rich. They are propaganda machines that set to keep people of average or lower intelligence from thinking about the important things. In America we have "the right to privacy", recently it was exposed that the National Security Agency has been recording every phone call made in the ENTIRE nation for years. The news stations were very careful in their thought control to keep people thinking about who to blame for this.... Not one station once mention demanded that they stop.... The average intelligence American gobbled it up like their favorite dinner.

American people dont like war but you know who does? The companies that manufacture weapons for our military donate unbelievable amounts of money to our politicians in order to make sure they stay in business. We are going trillions of dollars into debt because our Politicians are literally giving it away....

Not all American are riding their high horse....

Edited June 26, 2014 by ToYoungToRetire

[Emptyset]

The term "dirt diggers" has found its way into the American political lexicon. These diggers have also found their way into prestigious Congressional offices as well as the White House. The increasingly obscene infusion of finances into elections, both local and national, exemplifies the darker side of American democracy - the money politics.

How bad has it got? So bad that there was a Congressman who stored banknotes wrapped in aluminium foil in the freezer of the refrigerator in his office. When a family member of a senator was asked by her incredulous friend how the incident could have come about, her honest answer was, "It has always been this way," referring to paying off members of Congress.

Pornpimol herself certainly knows a thing or two about this. And it's first hand knowledge, too:

"The government charged Pornpimol "Pauline" Kanchanalak (aka Pornpimol Parichattkal) and Duangnet "Georgie" Kronenberg with a scheme to disguise illegal hard money contributions and soft money donations from foreign nationals and corporations to national and state political committees."

http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/192/1037/594125/

The US certainly has its problems, always has done, but arguably the influence of money on the political process has only increased during the last twenty or thirty years. That doesn't make its criticisms of Thailand invalid though. In fact having your own problems often makes it easier to spot problems in others and give them useful advice...

[iphad]

Obama spent $1,000,000,000.00 Dollars (31,000,000,000 baht) on his re-election campaign. How does a man get that much money?

Big corporations have owned our politicians for decades, our Politicians are merely puppets to distract us and keep us from having to deal with the horrible truth.

6 companies own/control %90 of all Television/new/radio/cable networks owned by the ultra Rich. They are propaganda machines that set to keep people of average or lower intelligence from thinking about the important things. In America we "the right to privacy", recently it was exposed that the NSA has been recording every call ever made in the ENTIRE nation for year. The news stations were very careful in their thought control to keep people thinking about who to blame for this.... Not one station once mention demanding that they stop.... The average intelligence American gobbled it up like their favorite dinner.

American people dont like war, but you know who does? The companies that manufacture weapons for our military donate unbelievable amounts of money to our politicians in order to make sure they stay in business. We are going trillions of dollars into debt because our Politicians are literally giving it away....

Not all American are riding their high horse....

I agree.... I have met & have many American friends that are...normal & free thinking & know what the American government is doing.

Yes there are many arrogant Americans who spout that they saved saved the world for democracy...but there are idiots in every country.

Thailand does need to clean up it's act & I think they are doing it since the recent military takeover.

I also think most Thai people want a better life,less corruption but as the Average American in America feels it's their government & their cronies that dictate policy & rarely listen to the people.

[pisico]

Add to that their current financial performance with their economy shrinking 2.9% in the first 3 months (BKK Post today)

Even with all the problems Thailand did better than that.

Compare the midget with the giant is really extemporaneous. A false analogy.

Thailand is an underdeveloped country in spite of decades of massive foreign investment and foreign know how.

Take away that foreign investment and Thailand will be eating a big slice of humble pie. Japan has already began moving assets to Indonesia.

When that happens from xenophobia this country will go into full xenophilia.

There is no comparison between the biggest and more diversified economy in the world and an underdeveloped country (with a superficial modern appearance) with a feudal, third world mentality.

The wonders of Thainess after cramming a patriotic movie!

[maxme]

Big words coming from a woman whose country doesn't even have a government.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Edited June 26, 2014 by maxme

[ToYoungToRetire]

Lots of Americans are unhappy with our Govt, I wouldnt take it personally if they dont like yours.

[pisico]

The term "dirt diggers" has found its way into the American political lexicon. These diggers have also found their way into prestigious Congressional offices as well as the White House. The increasingly obscene infusion of finances into elections, both local and national, exemplifies the darker side of American democracy - the money politics.

How bad has it got? So bad that there was a Congressman who stored banknotes wrapped in aluminium foil in the freezer of the refrigerator in his office. When a family member of a senator was asked by her incredulous friend how the incident could have come about, her honest answer was, "It has always been this way," referring to paying off members of Congress.

Pornpimol herself certainly knows a thing or two about this. And it's first hand knowledge, too:

"The government charged Pornpimol "Pauline" Kanchanalak (aka Pornpimol Parichattkal) and Duangnet "Georgie" Kronenberg with a scheme to disguise illegal hard money contributions and soft money donations from foreign nationals and corporations to national and state political committees."

http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/192/1037/594125/

The US certainly has its problems, always has done, but arguably the influence of money on the political process has only increased during the last twenty or thirty years. That doesn't make its criticisms of Thailand invalid though. In fact having your own problems often makes it easier to spot problems in others and give them useful advice...

Just maybe, hard to know what twisted ideas crawl inside a human mind. Maybe when writing that special OP she may have been trying to Make Merit with the Junta.

[pisico]

The writer had a chance to make a point here. unfortunately the article is a smattering of negativity from Google searches with no coherent connection.

Yes Thailand you have made a mess of your politics, just admit it and try to fix it. Deflection to America will not make any difference.

Just because America has it's own problems doesn't mean they and the rest of the world can't see yours.

Did anyone notice that she (the writer of the OP) forgot to add to the slew of deeds that:

1- Thailand allowed the Japanese army to occupy the country

2- set up bases and concentration (hard labor camps) on Thai soil and...

3- the crowning jewel of Thailand actions during World War II, publicly declared war to USA and UK.

The usual suspects should abstain from their apologies: "but the ambassadors never delivered the declaration of war."

The government of the time made public the declaration of war first, to the Japanese, second to the Thai population, third, to the world.

Happy now?

[antimedia]

Then why ever morning at the American Embassy their are long lines of people who want to come to this country. Answer that. We must be doing something right.

Americas and Thais have two things in common, corruption and poor intellect, only Americans are on a grander scale. So we have dumb people who think they can make more money in the states.

[stickyrice2000]

Why is she pissed off with the US? The US and EU have made their point very clear that they do not want to deal with the military officials. Every country has their choice. The junta can take this opportunity to make the reforms and plan the election as they stated in the given time. If they want to be in power forever, that's fine with them.

[rijb]

Then why ever morning at the American Embassy their are long lines of people who want to come to this country. Answer that. We must be doing something right.

Americas and Thais have two things in common, corruption and poor intellect, only Americans are on a grander scale. So we have dumb people who think they can make more money in the states.

Did you come up with the intelligent deduction all by yourself?

[chooka]

Then why ever morning at the American Embassy their are long lines of people who want to come to this country. Answer that. We must be doing something right.

Americas and Thais have two things in common, corruption and poor intellect, only Americans are on a grander scale. So we have dumb people who think they can make more money in the states.

3 things, they don't have Tony Numb nut.

[jonclark]

Sorry but this is typical Thai posturing - When faced with criticism, they in turn become critical of the person - or nation - criticizing them, and spin the whole story with a nationalistic twist of Thailand the (couragous and proud) victim standing up for itself against the foreigner the bully.

But the persistent underlying problems remain. They just can't hear them anymore because they are all to busy screaming nationalistic sentiments.

[mesquite]

Why is she pissed off with the US? The US and EU have made their point very clear that they do not want to deal with the military officials. Every country has their choice. The junta can take this opportunity to make the reforms and plan the election as they stated in the given time. If they want to be in power forever, that's fine with them.

Maybe she's pissed because the US government convicted her of of a felony a while back. That does tend to slant one's views, you know.

Edited June 26, 2014 by mesquite

[Mango Bob]

The next report will be on all the anti America idiots who post here.

[inthefareast]

What is the point of this article really? Just a rant from some idiot want to be journalist trying to get some attention. US and EU have the same stance on the current political situation in Thailand. Yes, the United States has problems as does nearly every country in the world. Last time I checked our military wasn't fooled into overthrowing a democratically nominated government.

Comparing the United States to Thailand is a joke as well. The United States has so much more geopolitical responsibility than little Thailand that nobody really gives a crap about on a global scale.

Don't throw rocks in a glass house. Get a functioning government before you try talking Sh*t.

Edited June 26, 2014 by inthefareast

[Snig27]

Mindless drivel that will only make the US smirk - and Andy Gibb did not write or even perform 'I Started a Joke" - his brother Robin did.

[englishoak]

The US is not my father ... again.... but dont mind still taking the pocket money in trade and aid.

[jaltsc]

"The American Civil Liberties Union most recent report, "War Comes Home: The Excessive Militarisation of American Policing", outlines incident after incident of the dangerous militarisation of US law enforcement at all levels in recent years."

However, America has no laws barring the ACLU from identifying the truth. Had such an organization been established in Thailand, every member would be imprisoned for "defaming character" of everyone it criticized. One must remember that the ACLU seems to upset everyone since it supports the civil rights of the extreme left, the extreme right and everything in between. However, no ACLU lawyers have ever been imprisoned or shot.

It is easy to criticize many things with the American system because they are allowed to expose all the ills in their society without having to fear for being imprisoned for telling the truth.

One must also take into account that the United States is much larger than Thailand with a more diverse population than most nations. However, unlike what we see in the Middle East, this diverse population has not resulted in ongoing factional wars and slaughter since the civil rights legislation was passed. .

No, it';s not a perfect nation. It's military industrial complex is probably responsible for much of the chaos throughout the world. However, like every other nation, the common person wants the same things...make a good living, safety for its children and a brighter future for all.

However, for Thailand to point a finger at anyone, it must first point a finger at itself and be allowed to criticize all facets of its society which need improvement, and not be afraid of being arrested for telling the truth.

Edited June 26, 2014 by jaltsc

[arizonamike74]

I'm not sure why this journalist (who by the way would not be able to write this article if she wasn't in complete support of the Junta due to the current Orwellian scale suppression of free speech), decided to single out the USA unless she already had an axe to grind.

The European Union, which presently consists of 28 countries and has a total population of just over 500 million citizens (504,456,000), has taken basically the same stance as the USA so you can rail against all 29 countries and 800 million citizens of those countries but it's not like the USA is the only government that has criticized the coup. In fact, the only countries supportive of the coup are those with fake democracies like Russia or no democracy like China.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/eu-raps-thailand-on-coup/1194916.html

I'm not sure why this article was reposted here - the admin think it was time for some good old America bashing? I can't say anything inflammatory on this forum about the Thai government but it's OK to isolate the USA for bashing over the same criticism given to Thailand by 28 other Western countries?

[tomyummer]

Yes, the US has got all their problems across the board. But for a country short of 250 years old, they have at least created a constitution and stuck to it while constantly amending it and created systems of governance which have protocol, checks and balances. Of course there are hiccups and imperfections here and there, but the fact that these foundations were established and maintained is incredible.

Thailand on the other hand has yet to even break ground at any instance and maintain any sort of system or establish a proper constitution. Its political establishment is an olympic kangaroo court. So this piece is rather pointless and really has no merit. The writer is comparing pineapples with bananas. Nice try, but it doesn't make sense.