Redesigning Cities For People, No More Cars.

[The Skipper]

Time to get serious about traffic, pollution, quality of life.

I would hope the next Bangkok Mayor is as inspirational as this guy.

Interesting video. Runs about 10 minutes.

http://www.nycsr.org/files/videos/penalosa-long.mov

[The Skipper]

Another video clip.

The future of transportation?

[The Skipper]

I find these videos very interesting.

Looks like a prototype. Reminds me of those old Henry Ford Model-A films.

In 10 or 20 years guys like this will have these things miniaturized and fitting them to the bottom of our shoes.

http://www.supersegway.com/video/Park-all.lowbw4meg.mov

[moonoi]

Another video clip.

The future of transportation?

The Segway Human Transporter is an overpriced, pointless pile of crap. Not a prototype, been around since 2003/2003 I think. If you want to try one there is a Segway tour organised in BKK nr to Queen Sirikit Park/Convention Centre I believe.

These things are such a failure that the inventor has been trying to punt them to the US military

Heres a pointless story about one group of people who decided to trek across the US on one

This one made me laugh too:

Segway owners beat each other with homemade mallets

The only thing worse than paying $4,000 for a scooter has to be using said scooter for a game of polo.

Yes, friends, it has come to that. A small band of Bay Area Segway owners have set a new low for the device - an almost impossible feat when you consider that "IT" was meant to have revolutionized cities by now but has actually ended up being little more than a poor selling toy. About ten of the Segway grunts recently gathered for a disturbing go at scooter polo.

The Segway owners created homemade mallets out of PVC pipe, foam and duct tape. The mallet building instructions are here [PDF], although Segway LLC has surely started production on a more refined version of this essential accessory.

A video of the polo battle shows a collection of fairly uncoordinated bloggers on wheels, running into each other and falling down. Did you expect any less?

"We had a great time playing polo on the Segway," says on member of the Bay Area Segway Enthusiasts Group. "Not a huge turnout but the game was fun and pretty competitive. It's also harder than it looks. Who says that riding the Segway isn't exercise?"

That's the spirit!

Inspired by the Segway enthusiasts' passion for exercise, your reporter left the office this morning with a six-pack in hand, hailed a cab, drank the six-pack, returned to The Vulture Compound and then waved his arms wildly while riding the elevator back up to the office. This feat did not cost $4,000, and it left us with a shred of dignity.

We're still waiting for Chicago officials to begin redesigning the "second city" to accommodate the myriad Segways here. It may, however, take a few thousand more arse-feeds, BPEL services and reality altering blogs to pull off this lifestyle revolution

The police in California use them and the police down under also wanted too but found a problem in there plan:

Aussie coppers crushed to discover Segways are illegal

By Ashlee Vance in Mountain View, Published Friday 13th January 2006 21:43 GMT

Some Australian police officers hoping to embarrass themselves by riding around on Segways have run into a problem - the law.

Police in Victoria looked to prop their squadrons up on the Segway scooters. The over-hyped device has become a favorite mode of transport for coppers here in the US, as it opens up a whole new realm of excuses for "the one who biked, skateboarded or jogged away." The Aussie police officers apparently wanted the same excuse luxury but were denied.

"After announcing last year that they hoped to buy several of the two-wheeled electric devices for city patrols, senior police were told by VicRoads that it is illegal to ride Segways, which are designed for footpaths, in public spaces in Victoria," reported The Age.

"VicRoads considers the devices, which can be ridden on private property, to be the legal equivalent of miniature 'monkey bikes,' outlawed by the State Government last year."

Besides the obvious shame, riding a Segway in public carries a $115 fine in Victoria. Local police and a Segway importer have vowed to fight this policy. "Let all our officers look like spoiled losers" might be the refrain.

A whopping 100 Segways have been sold Down Under, according to the paper, making the scooter about as popular as the 1996 Peanut Butter Enema Engage. (Thanks for pointing that out, Nathan.)

Given the meager consumer embrace of the Segway, it's no surprise to see how the scooter's inventor has been spending his time. Dean Kamen has created a product that allows him to drink his own pee. ®

and another interesting story involving this device

North Carolina paves the way for drunk Segwaying

Published Wednesday 21st December 2005 23:55 GMT

The Segway scooter has a purpose after all. It'll help you get home after an all night boozer without a DUI charge.

That seems to be the major lesson learned from the case of Kevin Crow - a North Carolina scooter aficionado. A sheriff's deputy charged Crow with scooting while intoxicated, noting that he scooted past a stop sign and weaved in his scooting lane. After testing, the sheriff's office discovered Crow's blood alcohol level to be .13 - well over the .08 limit.

Crow, 27, was then convicted and appealed the verdict, citing what is now to be known as the Segway Defense.

Crow argued that scooters deserve the same protection as bicycles, horses, lawnmowers and even the lowly Segway. Such items are not considered "vehicles" under state law, but the scooter is.

Despite Crow's best efforts, the appeals panel upheld the ruling.

One judge noted that close to 100 people were near Crow's scooter, adding that the "defendant's behavior subjected these pedestrians and motorists to a high degree of danger".

Crow could end up serving 14 days in jail and have his license taken away for two years.

So, that's a lesson to you all. When in North Carolina, make sure you drink and Segway. You won't get a ticket, but you may get shot.

The future of transport? Lets hope not

Edited July 5, 2006 by moonoi

[The Skipper]

Moonoi,

Sounds like you are very familiar with the equipment.

Just curious how much time you have spent riding one and what are specific problems with the Segway.

If Governments eliminate the cars from downtown. like the successfull model in Bogota, what are the alternatives beside public transport, bicycles and walking?

Compact electric devices will flourish in this new era.

Is there any doubt that city managers will be following this plan?

Edited July 5, 2006 by The Skipper

[The Skipper]

bombardier.bmp

This is an example of things to come.

Edited July 5, 2006 by The Skipper

[OZONE]

I'm with ya Skip, anything to reduced the pollution in Bkk. The Bombardier looks interesting, any idea when and how much it would be?.. How much for the Segway anyways?

[The Skipper]

I know one thing for sure. Putting 2000 new cars on the streets in Thailand everyday is insane.

Can this trend continue for the next 20 years?

Companies involved with electric transport are the future.

Thousand of innovative non polluting, electric transports will be zipping around in silence in the very near future.

At least in places like Bogota.

http://www.evworld.com/general.cfm?section...tory&page=links

[The Skipper]

Video clip from Steyr, Austria.

And this guy is my favorite.

http://www.supersegway.com/video/movie1.mov

Edited July 6, 2006 by The Skipper

[Misplaced]

Its astonishing how the Thai gov't hasn't done much in the way of improving the traffic and to reduce the air quality in BKK. The traffic and air has always been bad as long as I can remember

[The Skipper]

Another video clip.

The future of transportation?

The Segway Human Transporter is an overpriced, pointless pile of crap. Not a prototype, been around since 2003/2003 I think. If you want to try one there is a Segway tour organised in BKK nr to Queen Sirikit Park/Convention Centre I believe.

These things are such a failure that the inventor has been trying to punt them to the US military

Heres a pointless story about one group of people who decided to trek across the US on one

This one made me laugh too:

Segway owners beat each other with homemade mallets

The only thing worse than paying $4,000 for a scooter has to be using said scooter for a game of polo.

Yes, friends, it has come to that. A small band of Bay Area Segway owners have set a new low for the device - an almost impossible feat when you consider that "IT" was meant to have revolutionized cities by now but has actually ended up being little more than a poor selling toy. About ten of the Segway grunts recently gathered for a disturbing go at scooter polo.

The Segway owners created homemade mallets out of PVC pipe, foam and duct tape. The mallet building instructions are here [PDF], although Segway LLC has surely started production on a more refined version of this essential accessory.

A video of the polo battle shows a collection of fairly uncoordinated bloggers on wheels, running into each other and falling down. Did you expect any less?

"We had a great time playing polo on the Segway," says on member of the Bay Area Segway Enthusiasts Group. "Not a huge turnout but the game was fun and pretty competitive. It's also harder than it looks. Who says that riding the Segway isn't exercise?"

That's the spirit!

Inspired by the Segway enthusiasts' passion for exercise, your reporter left the office this morning with a six-pack in hand, hailed a cab, drank the six-pack, returned to The Vulture Compound and then waved his arms wildly while riding the elevator back up to the office. This feat did not cost $4,000, and it left us with a shred of dignity.

We're still waiting for Chicago officials to begin redesigning the "second city" to accommodate the myriad Segways here. It may, however, take a few thousand more arse-feeds, BPEL services and reality altering blogs to pull off this lifestyle revolution

The police in California use them and the police down under also wanted too but found a problem in there plan:

Aussie coppers crushed to discover Segways are illegal

By Ashlee Vance in Mountain View, Published Friday 13th January 2006 21:43 GMT

Some Australian police officers hoping to embarrass themselves by riding around on Segways have run into a problem - the law.

Police in Victoria looked to prop their squadrons up on the Segway scooters. The over-hyped device has become a favorite mode of transport for coppers here in the US, as it opens up a whole new realm of excuses for "the one who biked, skateboarded or jogged away." The Aussie police officers apparently wanted the same excuse luxury but were denied.

"After announcing last year that they hoped to buy several of the two-wheeled electric devices for city patrols, senior police were told by VicRoads that it is illegal to ride Segways, which are designed for footpaths, in public spaces in Victoria," reported The Age.

"VicRoads considers the devices, which can be ridden on private property, to be the legal equivalent of miniature 'monkey bikes,' outlawed by the State Government last year."

Besides the obvious shame, riding a Segway in public carries a $115 fine in Victoria. Local police and a Segway importer have vowed to fight this policy. "Let all our officers look like spoiled losers" might be the refrain.

A whopping 100 Segways have been sold Down Under, according to the paper, making the scooter about as popular as the 1996 Peanut Butter Enema Engage. (Thanks for pointing that out, Nathan.)

Given the meager consumer embrace of the Segway, it's no surprise to see how the scooter's inventor has been spending his time. Dean Kamen has created a product that allows him to drink his own pee. ®

and another interesting story involving this device

North Carolina paves the way for drunk Segwaying

Published Wednesday 21st December 2005 23:55 GMT

The Segway scooter has a purpose after all. It'll help you get home after an all night boozer without a DUI charge.

That seems to be the major lesson learned from the case of Kevin Crow - a North Carolina scooter aficionado. A sheriff's deputy charged Crow with scooting while intoxicated, noting that he scooted past a stop sign and weaved in his scooting lane. After testing, the sheriff's office discovered Crow's blood alcohol level to be .13 - well over the .08 limit.

Crow, 27, was then convicted and appealed the verdict, citing what is now to be known as the Segway Defense.

Crow argued that scooters deserve the same protection as bicycles, horses, lawnmowers and even the lowly Segway. Such items are not considered "vehicles" under state law, but the scooter is.

Despite Crow's best efforts, the appeals panel upheld the ruling.

One judge noted that close to 100 people were near Crow's scooter, adding that the "defendant's behavior subjected these pedestrians and motorists to a high degree of danger".

Crow could end up serving 14 days in jail and have his license taken away for two years.

So, that's a lesson to you all. When in North Carolina, make sure you drink and Segway. You won't get a ticket, but you may get shot.

The future of transport? Lets hope not

They do look like geeks, especially that guy, second from the left, Steve Wozniac.

O yea, the guy that drank his own pee, invented a futuristic device that changes sewage into drinking water. A real slacker, eh?

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dl...ITORY/605280368

Edited July 6, 2006 by The Skipper

[moonoi]

Another video clip.

The future of transportation?

The Segway Human Transporter is an overpriced, pointless pile of crap. Not a prototype, been around since 2003/2003 I think. If you want to try one there is a Segway tour organised in BKK nr to Queen Sirikit Park/Convention Centre I believe.

These things are such a failure that the inventor has been trying to punt them to the US military

Heres a pointless story about one group of people who decided to trek across the US on one

This one made me laugh too:

Segway owners beat each other with homemade mallets

The only thing worse than paying $4,000 for a scooter has to be using said scooter for a game of polo.

Yes, friends, it has come to that. A small band of Bay Area Segway owners have set a new low for the device - an almost impossible feat when you consider that "IT" was meant to have revolutionized cities by now but has actually ended up being little more than a poor selling toy. About ten of the Segway grunts recently gathered for a disturbing go at scooter polo.

The Segway owners created homemade mallets out of PVC pipe, foam and duct tape. The mallet building instructions are here [PDF], although Segway LLC has surely started production on a more refined version of this essential accessory.

A video of the polo battle shows a collection of fairly uncoordinated bloggers on wheels, running into each other and falling down. Did you expect any less?

"We had a great time playing polo on the Segway," says on member of the Bay Area Segway Enthusiasts Group. "Not a huge turnout but the game was fun and pretty competitive. It's also harder than it looks. Who says that riding the Segway isn't exercise?"

That's the spirit!

Inspired by the Segway enthusiasts' passion for exercise, your reporter left the office this morning with a six-pack in hand, hailed a cab, drank the six-pack, returned to The Vulture Compound and then waved his arms wildly while riding the elevator back up to the office. This feat did not cost $4,000, and it left us with a shred of dignity.

We're still waiting for Chicago officials to begin redesigning the "second city" to accommodate the myriad Segways here. It may, however, take a few thousand more arse-feeds, BPEL services and reality altering blogs to pull off this lifestyle revolution

The police in California use them and the police down under also wanted too but found a problem in there plan:

Aussie coppers crushed to discover Segways are illegal

By Ashlee Vance in Mountain View, Published Friday 13th January 2006 21:43 GMT

Some Australian police officers hoping to embarrass themselves by riding around on Segways have run into a problem - the law.

Police in Victoria looked to prop their squadrons up on the Segway scooters. The over-hyped device has become a favorite mode of transport for coppers here in the US, as it opens up a whole new realm of excuses for "the one who biked, skateboarded or jogged away." The Aussie police officers apparently wanted the same excuse luxury but were denied.

"After announcing last year that they hoped to buy several of the two-wheeled electric devices for city patrols, senior police were told by VicRoads that it is illegal to ride Segways, which are designed for footpaths, in public spaces in Victoria," reported The Age.

"VicRoads considers the devices, which can be ridden on private property, to be the legal equivalent of miniature 'monkey bikes,' outlawed by the State Government last year."

Besides the obvious shame, riding a Segway in public carries a $115 fine in Victoria. Local police and a Segway importer have vowed to fight this policy. "Let all our officers look like spoiled losers" might be the refrain.

A whopping 100 Segways have been sold Down Under, according to the paper, making the scooter about as popular as the 1996 Peanut Butter Enema Engage. (Thanks for pointing that out, Nathan.)

Given the meager consumer embrace of the Segway, it's no surprise to see how the scooter's inventor has been spending his time. Dean Kamen has created a product that allows him to drink his own pee. ®

and another interesting story involving this device

North Carolina paves the way for drunk Segwaying

Published Wednesday 21st December 2005 23:55 GMT

The Segway scooter has a purpose after all. It'll help you get home after an all night boozer without a DUI charge.

That seems to be the major lesson learned from the case of Kevin Crow - a North Carolina scooter aficionado. A sheriff's deputy charged Crow with scooting while intoxicated, noting that he scooted past a stop sign and weaved in his scooting lane. After testing, the sheriff's office discovered Crow's blood alcohol level to be .13 - well over the .08 limit.

Crow, 27, was then convicted and appealed the verdict, citing what is now to be known as the Segway Defense.

Crow argued that scooters deserve the same protection as bicycles, horses, lawnmowers and even the lowly Segway. Such items are not considered "vehicles" under state law, but the scooter is.

Despite Crow's best efforts, the appeals panel upheld the ruling.

One judge noted that close to 100 people were near Crow's scooter, adding that the "defendant's behavior subjected these pedestrians and motorists to a high degree of danger".

Crow could end up serving 14 days in jail and have his license taken away for two years.

So, that's a lesson to you all. When in North Carolina, make sure you drink and Segway. You won't get a ticket, but you may get shot.

The future of transport? Lets hope not

They do look like geeks, especially that guy, second from the left, Steve Wozniac.

O yea, the guy that drank his own pee, invented a futuristic device that changes sewage into drinking water. A real slacker, eh?

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dl...ITORY/605280368

Hey I never said he was a slacker, just he comes up with some "interesting concepts"

I did a couple of tours in Paris on a Segway, spent about 8 hours on one in total. to be honest it doesn't really do anything better than a bicycle, thats why I think its pointless. especially with a $4000 price tag (expensive because of the gyros inside to help it balance on 2 wheels).

I'm all for reducing congestion in cities and improving the air quality. Especially here in Bangkok, personally I think this particular technology isn't going to be much help. Thinking about BKK first we need to have a proper intergrated public transport system (including lanes for buses only etc etc), when thats in place you'll find number of cars on the roads decreases as people find it more convienent than using there car (this has been the experience of several cities in the UK) although a key thing to this is to keep it cheap. As long as its cheaper to run a car then people will use that rather than public transport.

Forgot to add did you know George Bush Jr fell off a Segway the first time he tried one (even more funny because the inventor claimed it was almost impossible to fall off one!!!)

Edited July 6, 2006 by moonoi

[The Skipper]

Futuristice electric vehicle pointless?

Bicycles better?

That's like saying the stairs are better than elevators.

[moonoi]

Futuristice electric vehicle pointless?

Bicycles better?

That's like saying the stairs are better than elevators.

A bicycle is faster and cheaper to run. more environmentally friendly too (how do you think the electricity generated to charge you Segway is made? vs human power for the bike )

If your lazy and you want electric power, then there are many electrically powered bicycles or even attachements for you existing bike you can use. None of them involves the expense of the Segway and are more pratically......the Segway is quite big and very heavy.

Edited July 6, 2006 by moonoi

[OZONE]

Futuristice electric vehicle pointless?

Bicycles better?

That's like saying the stairs are better than elevators.

A bicycle is faster and cheaper to run. more environmentally friendly too (how do you think the electricity generated to charge you Segway is made? vs human power for the bike )

If your lazy and you want electric power, then there are many electrically powered bicycles or even attachements for you existing bike you can use. None of them involves the expense of the Segway and are more pratically......the Segway is quite big and very heavy.

Don't forget "the Prostate" factor Excessive bicycling has long been linked to enlarged prostate for men all over the world.

IMO, thats a good reason to use the segway instead of a bike

[greenwanderer108]

I'm with moonoi on this one. Most people who put down the bike likely haven't been on one in Bkk or Thailand. As scary as it may sound for a bustling crazed maze like bkk, believe it or not it's actually quite nice. Most of the city is generally flat, and you can get pretty much across the city often quicker than most motorized transport, specifically during rush hour.

Speaking of electric bikes, I was really into that last year and there are several manufacturers and importers of decent electric bikes in Thailand now. I decided to engineer my own and was successful actually. However, by the time I actually got it running, I realized how unpracticle it was for only a 250 watt motor to push my fat arse along with the weight of the bike and batteries around. I could just about peddle faster with human. Not to mention, the battery life between charges wasn't even worth it. With all the time and money I put in to it, I would have been better off buying one for about the same price.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=47055

That was the thread I started about that project. You'll find a few links of the manufac. / suppliers of electric vehichles in Thailand.

Now my bike is back to normal peddling and I've stored the motor and controller away for my son's first science project in several years...I agree with Skip though, electricity is the future of not only Thailand, but the whole world.

[AmeriThai]

bombardier.bmp

This is an example of things to come.

LOL! The Bombardier is a motorized unicycle that runs on a hydrogen fuel cell and uses gyroscopes for balance. Weight is 164 kg/360 lbs and has a speed of 20 kmph/12 mph. However, the Bombardier appears to be just a cool looking design concept. I’m not certain if they’re actually being produced for marketing yet.

Some links:

http://www.gizmag.com/go/2350/

http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/2003/11/04...dl_1104vow.html

Segways and pedestrians don’t always mingle very well. While Segways aren’t hi-speed racers, they do travel faster than people walk, and the weight could cause an accident if an unexpected collision occurred. If someone was injured, there’s no place to carry the person to the hospital, unless you flop him (or her) over your shoulder and slowly zoom along on your Segway to the nearest emergency room. Best to try not hitting more than one person at a time. Also try not to hit anyone who weighs more than you.

They definitely aren’t designed for long distance travel. They’re way too slow. I’m not sure how long they run on a full charge. Regardless, if you work in the city but live out of it, you’re not exactly going to hop on your Segway to get there.

Some of Segways have had dirt wheels installed to cruise on trails. There are some problems with that though. No matter what kind of tires you put on them, if you hit soft dirt, wood chips, or a muddy spot, you’ll get bogged down. In addition, they can’t make it up any hills or steep inclines. They just don’t have enough power. In general, they need to run on firm surfaces that are fairly level. Maybe they’ve made some improvements since then though.

While the idea of clearing out all the motorized vehicles from BKK might seem like a good idea, it’s not very practical. Where would you ride them? Do you use the street with all the traffic and hope no one hits you? Or ride on the sidewalks hopping up and down curbs, getting stuck behind some pedestrians walking slower than snails, or hoping you don’t hit any obstacles like an open storm drain or tables and chairs near a food cart. If they became more common as inner-city transportation, where would you park them? Bring them into the office? I don’t think so. Leave it outside somewhere? Too easy to either find it missing or stripped of parts.

Of course, if you have an adventurous sense of humor, you can always ride it past spots where several tuk-tuk drivers park waiting for passengers. Be sure to wear a sign that says TAXI for a real thrill.

Then too, there’d have to be a tradeoff. If they became popular, which I doubt is likely, the batteries have to be recharged. It’d be one more thing added to the already stressed power load. Thailand still has its share of occasional blackouts. Add recharging a cityful of these gadgets and there’d be a lot more power failures than there already is now.

And how would the loads of supplies, goods and merchandise be delivered on a daily basis to offices, businesses and merchants?

[The Skipper]

NOTE:I posted several Quik Time Videos and encourage you to watch the very first one on my opening post

QOUTE:

"Segways and pedestrians don’t always mingle very well."

3000 lb cars do?

Certainly bikes are faster and more dangerous on a sidewalk than a slow Scooter.

Getting out of bed has risks too.

We weigh these risks all day long.

If we wanted to start eliminating risk, remove the 2 most dangerous devices from the below list:

(1)Car.

(2) Bike.

(3) Self-Balancing Electric Scooter.

"They definitely aren’t designed for long distance travel. They’re way too slow. "

We are talking about getting around the city limits when cars are not an option.

This guy went from San Francisco to Los Angeles towing a 150lb trailer.

Way outside the design applications but proves these things can be safe, robust and a dependable means of covering ground.

http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=140665

Fuel cells will become common soon. Range won't be an issue.

What is the average speed and trip length in Bangkok I wonder?

A typical city car trip would be from Soi 55 to Wireless Rd. Or Silom to Sukhumvit.

Easily in range of current battery power devices.

When cars are forced out, we won't be walking this far and public transport won't be taking us everywhere.

Remember, we are discussing the future, when cars will not be entering city limits or paying dearly when they do.

The options as of now are walking, biking, public tranport. That's about it.

I'm arguing that small electric vehicles will be made by the millions and deployed sooner than you think. Especially in progressive places like Bogota, Singapore, London.

These cities are taking aggressive action to remove autos from down town and things are much better already. Other cities will obviously following in their footsteps when looking for solutions.

"Some of Segways have had dirt wheels installed to cruise on trails. There are some problems with that though. No matter what kind of tires you put on them, if you hit soft dirt, wood chips, or a muddy spot, you’ll get bogged down. In addition, they can’t make it up any hills or steep inclines."

We are discussing using them in cities like Bangkok, Bogota, LA. for convienence.

An alternative to walking or biking.

Those guys rode one across the USA over a few mountain ranges. I don't think they towed it up the Rockies. Power is not a problem.

Offroad video here:

http://www.supersegway.com/video/XTLow.mov

If they became more common as inner-city transportation, where would you park them? Bring them into the office? I don’t think so. Leave it outside somewhere? Too easy to either find it missing or stripped of parts.

Where do you park a car, a bike anything?

You lock them up, right?

," the batteries have to be recharged. It’d be one more thing added to the already stressed power load."

Cars are virtually individual power plants and worse, right in your face.

Plugging into the grid while you have lunch should be more environmentally friendly.No?

Remember, when the cars are gone, the parking spaces become pedestrian friendly sidewalks.

The remaining lanes will be bike routes or for essential vehicles only.

Walking and biking etc. will become much more pleasant, then more people WILL walk and bike.

Entrapreneurs will see the gap between walking and public trans. and thousands of cool new ways to get around will be available. Especially with the aid of computer design, fuel cells and creative minds.

Infrastructure will be designed for us, moving sidewalks, more skytrains, designated bus lanes.

I'm not pushing Segway or any other particular electric device.

The next logical step is the electric bike followed in the future by hovercraft or who knows?

Probablysolar powered, hovering electric shoes that go 100kph, programed to take you to your destination without a scratch.

There will be huge money to be made and lost during the transition too.

Just curious what's next?

That Mayor in Columbia really is onto somthing big.

[moonoi]

Futuristice electric vehicle pointless?

Bicycles better?

That's like saying the stairs are better than elevators.

A bicycle is faster and cheaper to run. more environmentally friendly too (how do you think the electricity generated to charge you Segway is made? vs human power for the bike )

If your lazy and you want electric power, then there are many electrically powered bicycles or even attachements for you existing bike you can use. None of them involves the expense of the Segway and are more pratically......the Segway is quite big and very heavy.

Don't forget "the Prostate" factor Excessive bicycling has long been linked to enlarged prostate for men all over the world.

IMO, thats a good reason to use the segway instead of a bike

Until it runs out of juice and you give yourself a hernia trying to drag the thing to the nearest charging point

[The Skipper]

The technology does have it's downside.

http://www.supersegway.com/video/segwayinboston.mov

[Plus]

There was one catch in that Bogota's mayor speech - US suburban-highway generation. Bangkok's suburbs are also growing fast and there's no alternative but cars. Public transport here will never catch up with housing estates sprouting farther and farther out of town.

So people WILL buy cars and WILL drive them. The easiest part for BMA is to provide park and ride facilities at main city entry points. Existing ones are full by 7AM, we need more and more, and yet more, with easy access to public transport from there on. Unfortunately there are only three mass transit entry points in the city - Morchit, Ratchada/Ladprao intersection, and Onnut. They will never cope with hundreds of thousands of cars. The rest of the public transport is not very inspiring to car owners, actually even BTS with its noise and crowds is not very attractive.

Yet new mass transit system is focused on reaching out to far flung places instead of creating a dense inner-city network.

Another problem is heat - you walk a hundred meters and you are soaking already. I'm sure cyclists also sweat a lot, and so will Segway riders. BTS also traps hot air underneath it. Then there are rains...

[boppia]

Interesting idea. I bet a lot of people could use segway in certain situations. I bet some mailmen use them. They could be dangerous. Would you ride one if you had to wear a helmet?

A light Segway accident:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lHPeT-E2mS4&sea...gway%20accident

The unicycle could have saved so much on rubber, steel, and maintenance. It never went far.

Segway has some value like for police patrolling wide boardwalks along the beach or something like that.

Segway company should let the patients at nursing home use them for a year then tabulate the numbers of accidents and fatalities they have and let us know the results. Watch the hhhhhhh out here comes granny!

Skipper this is a great thread. I love your links. My personal solution to the problem would be having smaller families but capitalists don't like that idea. We live in an every rising pyramid where those at the top need more and more at the bottom so that they can rise to the stars with the Pharaohs. We are the pyramid of capitalism.

[The Skipper]

"So people WILL buy cars and WILL drive them."

They don't in Singapore?

The Govt is on the ball down there, on the right track.

Bangkok is a Poster Child for how bad things can get. One of the very worst cities on the planet for traffic and pollution.

The challanges here are great and most likely this place will go down in history as a monument to stupidity.

[The Skipper]

"Segway company should let the patients at nursing home use them for a year then tabulate the numbers of accidents and fatalities they have and let us know the results. Watch the hhhhhhh out here comes granny!"

I see a test where 100 units were deployed in a retirement community in Florida early on.

They did alot of testing and have a factory full of wiz kids tweaking the thing.

The company is said to have 200 millionUSD wrapped up in the product so far.

The investors list reads like a "whos who" of the venture capitol world.

It doesn't look like they are doing well but other companies will come along and improve what has been developed.

Just like the turn of the last century, there were thousands of car companies, many in small garages and shops. Most went out of business but several did well. 99% went belly up.

Ford, Mercedes, Dodge etc. became giants.

I do know they won't be burning gas at the turn of the next century.

Won't be any left.

The air will be destroyed and the poisonous remains of a failed technology will be everwhere.

Let's hope mother earth can get thru this destructive period in human history.

[AmeriThai]

3000 lb cars do?

Certainly bikes are faster and more dangerous on a sidewalk than a slow Scooter.

Getting out of bed has risks too.

We weigh these risks all day long.

If we wanted to start eliminating risk, remove the 2 most dangerous devices from the below list:

(1)Car.

(2) Bike.

(3) Self-Balancing Electric Scooter.

I agree. Cars and bikes present the risk of an accident to people. But comparing cars is completely irrelevant because my statement was about Segways and pedestrians. You fon't usually see 3000 lb cars driving on the sidewalks, although I guess anything is possible in BKK.

BTW, when you say “bikes” are you talking about bicycles or motorcycles?

We are talking about getting around the city limits when cars are not an option.

This guy went from San Francisco to Los Angeles towing a 150lb trailer.

Way outside the design applications but proves these things can be safe, robust and a dependable means of covering ground.

How many times did the guy have to stop to recharge? What it “proves” is that he had a lot of time on his hands. Like any vehicle, they’re only as safe as the person operating it. That said, have you seen how a lot of vehicles are driven in BKK? Now picture hoards of Segways on the loose, then tell me how safe they’d be.

Range won't be an issue.

What is the average speed and trip length in Bangkok I wonder?

A typical city car trip would be from Soi 55 to Wireless Rd. Or Silom to Sukhumvit.

Easily in range of current battery power devices.

They may be within range of a charging but they’d still crawl at a snail’s pace to their destinations. For recreational use, fine. For going to work, I doubt too many people would be eager to use that form of transportation.

When cars are forced out, we won't be walking this far and public transport won't be taking us everywhere.

Remember, we are discussing the future, when cars will not be entering city limits or paying dearly when they do.

Only cars should be “forced out”? What about trucks, taxis, busses, etc?

The options as of now are walking, biking, public tranport. That's about it.

You missed private and business vehicles.

We are discussing using them in cities like Bangkok, Bogota, LA. for convienence.

An alternative to walking or biking.

No, you aren’t just talking about using Segways, etc., as an alternative to walking or biking. You’re talking about using such things as a replacement to conventional transportation.

Where do you park a car, a bike anything?

You lock them up, right?

Forget about cars, and let’s just stick with the Segways and bikes. You say lock them up? Let’s say Segways became the popular alternative to current in-city transportation. Now then, let’s also say most people in any given high-rise office building in the Sukhumvit Road or Silom Road area use a Segway to get to work. Exactly where are they going to park them all? Where are you going to lock them? Out on the street? You can, but I sure wouldn't, not when they cost around $3000 or so. They certainly won’t be bringing their Segways with them while they catch the elevator (lift) up to the 34th or so floor and park them in the office.

Cars are virtually individual power plants and worse, right in your face.

Plugging into the grid while you have lunch should be more environmentally friendly.No?

No, not necessarily “environmentally friendly”. At the time of day you’re having lunch (let’s say noon), much of the city will be also be running air-conditioners, fans, etc., at the same time. Don’t forget that businesses, offices and factories are still plugged in and turned on, even at lunchtime. If you’re talking about a few, then it wouldn’t be a noticeable problem. But if you’re talking about widespread use (which is what it seems you’re envisioning), then yes, it could be a problem.

Remember, when the cars are gone, the parking spaces become pedestrian friendly sidewalks.

The remaining lanes will be bike routes or for essential vehicles only.

So then should cars be prohibited entirely?

I'm not pushing Segway or any other particular electric device.

You might not be pushing it, but most of your posts in this thread have included links focused on Segway vids. Yes, I know they are the most common examples of alternative personal transportation gadgets.

The next logical step is the electric bike followed in the future by hovercraft or who knows?

Probablysolar powered, hovering electric shoes that go 100kph, programed to take you to your destination without a scratch.

Okay, back to reality. Electric bikes, even electric cars, already exist, though not on a wide scale basis. Hovercraft and solar powered vehicles also exist, but mostly as experimental vehicles.

In the US, electric scooters (the kind you stand on) are becoming more popular for relatively short in-city trips. They aren’t noisy, don’t pollute, are lightweight, easy-to-store, and inexpensive. I've seen some for under $200 (US), which is far cheaper than expensive clunkers like Segway and probably more attractive pricewise to the average Thai than gyro gadgets. Some can be equipped with a wide bicycle-type seat. I’d guess they run about as fast and as far as a Segway. I’m not sure how far they can run on a full charge or how much power they consume to recharge. Drawbacks are slow speed, not useful for longer distances, and aren’t worth a crap if you need to carry things (although I’ve seen some models, similar to a small moped, with a basket behind the seat). I’ve also seen some with larger wheels.

There are also gas-powered models. They’re pretty noisy, but very economical to get around on for short jaunts instead of using a car. That’s an advantage considering the current price of gasoline (petrol).

-AneriThai

[The Skipper]

at least 40 billion baht ($1 billion) a year in fuel and wasted work hours, according to Kasetsart University Professor Wiroj Rujopakarn.

.. according to Kasetsart University Professor Wiroj Rujopakarn. As economic growth accelerates, car sales are rising faster than the government can build public transportation systems.

Bangkok's number of private cars, pickup trucks and motorcycles reached a record 4.9 million in 2003, up 28 percent from 2001, government figures show -- even after the elevated train opened. That's about seven times the number of vehicles in Singapore, which has a population of about 4 million compared with about 8 million in Bangkok.

Bangkok's average car speed is 10.3 kilometers an hour, compared with 16.5 kilometers in London and 20 kilometers in Singapore, according to the Brussels-based International Association of Public Transport.

3000 lb cars do?

Certainly bikes are faster and more dangerous on a sidewalk than a slow Scooter.

Getting out of bed has risks too.

We weigh these risks all day long.

If we wanted to start eliminating risk, remove the 2 most dangerous devices from the below list:

(1)Car.

(2) Bike.

(3) Self-Balancing Electric Scooter.

I agree. Cars and bikes present the risk of an accident to people. But comparing cars is completely irrelevant because my statement was about Segways and pedestrians. You fon't usually see 3000 lb cars driving on the sidewalks, although I guess anything is possible in BKK.

BTW, when you say “bikes” are you talking about bicycles or motorcycles?

The answer is (3).Agreed?

We are talking about getting around the city limits when cars are not an option.

This guy went from San Francisco to Los Angeles towing a 150lb trailer.

Way outside the design applications but proves these things can be safe, robust and a dependable means of covering ground.

How many times did the guy have to stop to recharge? What it “proves” is that he had a lot of time on his hands. Like any vehicle, they’re only as safe as the person operating it. That said, have you seen how a lot of vehicles are driven in BKK? Now picture hoards of Segways on the loose, then tell me how safe they’d be.

Now picture hoards of CARS on the loose, then tell me how safe they’d be .

24 miles or so before recharging is excellent range.

Who puts on 20 miles on trip within the city?

Most folks are going on short trips, taking a car on these trips is the problem. Agreed?

I agree, Trips over 10 or 20 miles should be done in a car.

Range won't be an issue.

What is the average speed and trip length in Bangkok I wonder?

A typical city car trip would be from Soi 55 to Wireless Rd. Or Silom to Sukhumvit.

Easily in range of current battery power devices.

They may be within range of a charging but they’d still crawl at a snail’s pace to their destinations. For recreational use, fine. For going to work, I doubt too many people would be eager to use that form of transportation.

Maybe you don't live in Bangkok but CARS are going at a Snails pace in town.

In fact, slower than the good old horse and buggys days. Average speed is 10.3kph and getting slower every year.

24 hour gridlock is predicted 20 years from now with average speed down to 3kph or so.

So the electric scooters/ bikes will most likely be faster than cars on these short intown trips.Agreed?

When cars are forced out, we won't be walking this far and public transport won't be taking us everywhere.

Remember, we are discussing the future, when cars will not be entering city limits or paying dearly when they do.

Only cars should be “forced out”? What about trucks, taxis, busses, etc?

Of course, essential vehicles should be permited and are included in the Bogota Model.

The options as of now are walking, biking, public tranport. That's about it.

You missed private and business vehicles.

You missed some info in the above posts!Agreed?

We are discussing using them in cities like Bangkok, Bogota, LA. for convienence.

An alternative to walking or biking.

No, you aren’t just talking about using Segways, etc., as an alternative to walking or biking. You’re talking about using such things as a replacement to conventional transportation.

No. I'm talking about eliminating a majority of cars in cities.

Why should a person sit in a 3000lb car when they are going to lunch, or a meeting , or visiting friends in town?

Somthing has to replace the conventional vehicle if progress is expected.Agreed?

Where do you park a car, a bike anything?

You lock them up, right?

Forget about cars, and let’s just stick with the Segways and bikes. You say lock them up? Let’s say Segways became the popular alternative to current in-city transportation. Now then, let’s also say most people in any given high-rise office building in the Sukhumvit Road or Silom Road area use a Segway to get to work. Exactly where are they going to park them all? Where are you going to lock them? Out on the street? You can, but I sure wouldn't, not when they cost around $3000 or so. They certainly won’t be bringing their Segways with them while they catch the elevator (lift) up to the 34th or so floor and park them in the office.

You better rethink that one.

Where are all the bike/motorcycles riders parking?

Where are the cars parking?

Take away just 1 car and there is parking for 25 small scooters. Eliminate just 100 cars and there is parking for 2500 people.Agreed?

Cars are virtually individual power plants and worse, right in your face.

Plugging into the grid while you have lunch should be more environmentally friendly.No?

No, not necessarily “environmentally friendly”. At the time of day you’re having lunch (let’s say noon), much of the city will be also be running air-conditioners, fans, etc., at the same time. Don’t forget that businesses, offices and factories are still plugged in and turned on, even at lunchtime. If you’re talking about a few, then it wouldn’t be a noticeable problem. But if you’re talking about widespread use (which is what it seems you’re envisioning), then yes, it could be a problem.

Going to run out of electricity? I don't think so. Gas? Yea that's going to run out for sure.

Electric power is way better. Not an argument there. Agreed?

Remember, when the cars are gone, the parking spaces become pedestrian friendly sidewalks.

The remaining lanes will be bike routes or for essential vehicles only.

So then should cars be prohibited entirely?

No.

Reducing a majority of the cars is the goal.

I don't think you read my earlier posts.

I'm not pushing Segway or any other particular electric device.

You might not be pushing it, but most of your posts in this thread have included links focused on Segway vids. Yes, I know they are the most common examples of alternative personal transportation gadgets.

Those videos are cool. Agreed?

The next logical step is the electric bike followed in the future by hovercraft or who knows?

Probablysolar powered, hovering electric shoes that go 100kph, programed to take you to your destination without a scratch.

Okay, back to reality. Electric bikes, even electric cars, already exist, though not on a wide scale basis. Hovercraft and solar powered vehicles also exist, but mostly as experimental vehicles.

You're right. First the experiments, then real progress.

Cars were experimental at one time.

Combustion engine technology is ancient, inneficient and dirty.

Are you saying we should just continue using the car and forget about progress?

Good battery power is brand new technology. Expect to see alot of it.

By the way 10,000,000 electric bikes did hit the road last year worldwide.

"

In the US, electric scooters (the kind you stand on) are becoming more popular for relatively short in-city trips. They aren’t noisy, don’t pollute, are lightweight, easy-to-store, and inexpensive."

That's right. Thanks for noticing.

Look for that trend to continue.

The revolution I'm speaking of is well under way.

Agreed?

[a2396]

I hope you generate some interest in this topic amongst the "powers that be" here. Unfortunately, this does not look like much of a priority with the decision makers. I see little, if any attempt to relate land use to traffic management. Outside of Bangkok the concept is non-existant. If you want to see good planning and balance of transportation, land use and a livable city, go to Singapore.The best in the world for this, in my opinion.

[The Skipper]

I hope you generate some interest in this topic amongst the "powers that be" here. Unfortunately, this does not look like much of a priority with the decision makers. I see little, if any attempt to relate land use to traffic management. Outside of Bangkok the concept is non-existant. If you want to see good planning and balance of transportation, land use and a livable city, go to Singapore.The best in the world for this, in my opinion.

The writings on the wall. Global warming, gas prices, gas supply, 10k average speed, gridlock and quality of life.

Singapore, London and Bogota are doing somthing about it.

In Bangkok, 30% of the infrastructure budget ends up in someones pocket so expect to see this place get furthur and furthur behind I fear.

[AmeriThai]

Maybe you don't live in Bangkok but CARS are going at a Snails pace in town.

In fact, slower than the good old horse and buggys days. Average speed is 10.3kph and getting slower every year.

24 hour gridlock is predicted 20 years from now with average speed down to 3kph or so.

So the electric scooters/ bikes will most likely be faster than cars on these short intown trips.Agreed?

Correct, I don’t live in BKK and don’t spend much time there these days. But I do go in once in a while and am well familiar with the long lines of traffic on the main roads. When we do go into the city, we don’t usually get bogged down for long because we try to use toll roads, other roads and sois that get us to where we want to go.

Your proposal envisions banning private cars within the city. However, the idea of banning cars and replacing them with electric scooters is a bit narrow and unrealistic. To accomplish such a daunting task would involve much more than simply reserving a few parking spaces.

There’s no question there are many people who work in the city also live in the city. But what about all those who commute because they live outside of the city?

Scooters and bikes may be faster than cars on some of the busiest roads. Some people may enjoy making short jaunts like that. As long as it’s a clear day, no problem. But during periods when it’s pouring down rain, how many people do you think will want to travel on a Segway? Remember, cars would be banned from the city in your proposal. Bangkok is a very, very large city.

I just don’t think too many people are going to quit driving cars and opt to ride scooters or bikes. That said, cars more than likely would still remain on the roads to endure the traffic jams. Others, like myself, will take alternate routes where possible.

Hybrids

Considering the high price of fuel, one option would be for automobile manufacturers to step up production on hybrid cars. Hybrid cars are already on sales lots and roads in the US. If hybrid cars can be priced lower than they are now, sales would skyrocket.

If hybrid vehicles became widely and economically available in Thailand, they could run on gasoline on the highways, and run on fuel cells in the city. That would significantly reduce the levels of both exhaust emissions and heat radiation in the city.

Hydrogen Power

A bit farther off in the future, a transition could eventually put hydrogen-powered vehicles on the roads. That not only would end the dependence on petroleum fuel and be virtually pollution free. Not to mention no worries about depleting the supply.

Getting a bit fancy with future “what ifs”, hover cycles that are hydrogen-powered, even enclosed like a narrow car, could become a part of future transportation. They aren’t going to be flying over buildings, but more likely several inches above roads and ground surfaces. While it might seem hard to control a floating craft, there’s no reason why retractable wheels can’t be included that flip down when the vehicle drops to a certain speed or the brakes are applied.

Traffic Solutions

Could BKK reduce traffic problems in the future? Of course it can. What about multilevel roads? Eliminate parking from other streets to add additional lanes to provide additional routes. Build more multilevel parking structures. More routes extended for the sky train. And of course, better fuel efficient city busses, taxis, etc. How about city busses with 2 or 3 passenger compartments attached?

I’m not saying any of these ideas are the only solutions to consider. The point is that there are plenty of innovative solutions that can resolve traffic problems and don’t necessarily require banning private vehicle. A variety of transportation alternatives seem like a more realistic idea.

Agreed?

[The Skipper]

"I’m not saying any of these ideas are the only solutions to consider. The point is that there are plenty of innovative solutions that can resolve traffic problems and don’t necessarily require banning private vehicle. A variety of transportation alternatives seem like a more realistic idea.

Agreed?"

I do agree with alot of what you said.

A thousand inventors will be providing us with a mind boggling array of personal vehicles when the time is right. Even on rainy days.

Look around. A majority of the cars have a single passenger.

A 3000lb car, with one passenger, going on a short jaunt, clogging roads, belching toxic gas and experiencing delays and parking difficulty, just seems dumb.

Eliminating 80% of the cars would be a realistic goal. Just make sure the public transport web gets you within 1 or 2 kilometers from your destination. Then use a personal transporter to finish the last leg of the journey.

I hear of a company in France that already is providing bikes and scooters at Subway stops.Temporary rentals that you leave at the next station for the next guy.