Ukraine crisis: Putin orders retaliatory sanctions

[webfact]

Ukraine crisis: Putin orders retaliatory sanctions

MOSCOW: -- Russian President Vladimir Putin has banned or curbed agricultural imports from countries imposing sanctions on Russia over the crisis in Ukraine.

In a decree (Russian text), he ordered the measures, which also apply to food imports, to be introduced for one year.

Meanwhile, renewed fighting in eastern Ukraine has forced the suspension of a search for the remains of the victims of crashed flight MH17.

The attack on the jet has heightened tensions between Russia and the West.

The Malaysia Airlines aircraft was brought down in July, killing all 298 people aboard, most of them Dutch citizens.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28680656


-- BBC 2014-08-07

[SOTIRIOS]

.......If you want to know what The Ukraine Situation is all about....read this....

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=12186

...and stop painting Russia as the bad guy.....

...scum cause wars and kill people.....for profit.......

...and make up stories and point fingers....to get their way......

[TVGerry]

.......If you want to know what The Ukraine Situation is all about....read this....

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=12186

...and stop painting Russia as the bad guy.....

...scum cause wars and kill people.....for profit.......

...and make up stories and point fingers....to get their way......

Yes let's not blame Russia for supporting rebels in another country's civil way by sending materiel and troops! Poor innocent Russia! Getting blamed for everything boohoo!

[lovetotravel]

.......If you want to know what The Ukraine Situation is all about....read this....

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=12186

...and stop painting Russia as the bad guy.....

...scum cause wars and kill people.....for profit.......

...and make up stories and point fingers....to get their way......

You can't blame one side or the other. It takes 2 to tango. Putin is in this up to his neck. And doing it for exactly the last 2 reasons you list.

And yes, let's remember what started all this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_crisis

On April 17 Russian president Vladimir Putin confirmed Russian involvement in Crimea, remarking that "Of course, Russian servicemen backed the Crimean self-defense forces".^[54]

[konying]

.......If you want to know what The Ukraine Situation is all about....read this....

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=12186

...and stop painting Russia as the bad guy.....

...scum cause wars and kill people.....for profit.......

...and make up stories and point fingers....to get their way......

Yes let's not blame Russia for supporting rebels in another country's civil way by sending materiel and troops! Poor innocent Russia! Getting blamed for everything boohoo!

same could be said for USA and west for supporting neo nazi and murder of civilians.

Keep in mind rebels are not foreigners but Ukrainian citizens who oppose Kiev and neo nazis

[F430murci]

MOSCOW - Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev threatened on Tuesday to retaliate over European Union sanctions, with local media reporting that European flights to Asia over Siberia could be banned. "We should discuss possible retaliation," Medvedev said at a meeting with the Russian transport minister and a deputy chief executive of national airline, Aeroflot. The EU has widened its sanctions after last month's downing of a Malaysian airliner over territory in eastern Ukraine controlled by pro-Moscow rebels, with the loss of 298 lives.

Budget airline Dobrolyot, owned by Aeroflot, was grounded last week after its aircraft leasing agreement with an E.U. was canceled because of the sanctions. Russian business newspaper Vedomosti reported that Russia may restrict or ban European airlines from flying over Siberia on Asian routes, a move that would impose costs on European carriers by making flights take longer and require more fuel. Separately, billionaire Gennady Timchenko told state news agency ITAR-TASS that U.S. company Gulfstream had stopped servicing his private jet.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-plane-crash/mh17-sanctions-retaliation-russia-may-force-airlines-reroute-n173111

[rethaier]

.......If you want to know what The Ukraine Situation is all about....read this....

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=12186

...and stop painting Russia as the bad guy.....

...scum cause wars and kill people.....for profit.......

...and make up stories and point fingers....to get their way......

Yes let's not blame Russia for supporting rebels in another country's civil way by sending materiel and troops! Poor innocent Russia! Getting blamed for everything boohoo!

Obviously IYHO it's not OK for Russia to support rebels in the Ukraine but I assume you have no problem with the US supporting rebels in Syria and other places.

[GentlemanJim]

Watch the commodity markets! Russia/Ukraine export significant quantities of Iron, steel, Aluminium, Copper, Nickel.

This could get a lot worse before it gets anywhere near better.

The post by SOTIRIOS is close to the mark. Putin may well be in this up to his neck, but without the undoubted goading by certain Western countries this situation would not exist. The West is playing a dangerous game with the Ukraine. If rumours prove correct and Russia closes Siberian airspace to all European/US traffic flying to Asia etc then that would prove a real issue. Costs of travel will soar, journey times will increase significantly. The West will then impose sanctions on Russian air traffic and boom, get ready to build the wall again and watch for the defence corporations in the US and Europe having the party of the century. It is ALL about money and resources!!!

[zig]

same could be said for USA and west for supporting neo nazi and murder of civilians.

Keep in mind rebels are not foreigners but Ukrainian citizens who oppose Kiev and neo nazis

This is true if you listen ONLY to the news from Russia. All the other news agencies seem to agree that a significant number of the rebels are imported from Russia and paid by Russia, many of them from Chechnya security forces and Russian Spetsnaz. Even the rebel leaders themselves have acknowledged this few times.

If one listens to Russian news these days then it is scary and sounds as bad as Germany 75 years ago - Russia is the only country protecting the world against the influence of the evil West, and all the western countries are enemies plotting against Russia.

[lovetotravel]

.......If you want to know what The Ukraine Situation is all about....read this....

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=12186

...and stop painting Russia as the bad guy.....

...scum cause wars and kill people.....for profit.......

...and make up stories and point fingers....to get their way......

Yes let's not blame Russia for supporting rebels in another country's civil way by sending materiel and troops! Poor innocent Russia! Getting blamed for everything boohoo!

Obviously IYHO it's not OK for Russia to support rebels in the Ukraine but I assume you have no problem with the US supporting rebels in Syria and other places.

But there's a huge difference between support and boots on the ground. And a huge difference between support and illegal annexation of a sovereign country's territory.

Not sure what country you are from, but how do you think your citizens would feel if a big chunk was taken away? Not very good, I'd imagine.

[konying]

same could be said for USA and west for supporting neo nazi and murder of civilians.

Keep in mind rebels are not foreigners but Ukrainian citizens who oppose Kiev and neo nazis

This is true if you listen ONLY to the news from Russia. All the other news agencies seem to agree that a significant number of the rebels are imported from Russia and paid by Russia, many of them from Chechnya security forces and Russian Spetsnaz. Even the rebel leaders themselves have acknowledged this few times.

If one listens to Russian news these days then it is scary and sounds as bad as Germany 75 years ago - Russia is the only country protecting the world against the influence of the evil West, and all the western countries are enemies plotting against Russia.

Lol @ at all the other news agency.

They do not have a clue or a single string of evidence , of course they have to spout something otherwise all the western countries look foolish

[lovetotravel]

same could be said for USA and west for supporting neo nazi and murder of civilians.

Keep in mind rebels are not foreigners but Ukrainian citizens who oppose Kiev and neo nazis

This is true if you listen ONLY to the news from Russia. All the other news agencies seem to agree that a significant number of the rebels are imported from Russia and paid by Russia, many of them from Chechnya security forces and Russian Spetsnaz. Even the rebel leaders themselves have acknowledged this few times.

If one listens to Russian news these days then it is scary and sounds as bad as Germany 75 years ago - Russia is the only country protecting the world against the influence of the evil West, and all the western countries are enemies plotting against Russia.

Lol @ at all the other news agency.

They do not have a clue or a single string of evidence , of course they have to spout something otherwise all the western countries look foolish

There's actually lots of clues and lots of strings of evidence. No "smoking" gun yet, but quite a bit of credible evidence. It's just some don't want to hear it. Easier to blame the west for all this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27713847

And on Ukraine there's one message - that the violence in eastern Ukraine is all Kiev's fault, that Ukraine is crawling with Russia-hating neo-Nazis and fascists, and that it's the US government which is fuelling the crisis behind the scenes, while Russia tries to act as peacemaker.

"Aggressive and deceptive propaganda... worse than anything I witnessed in the Soviet Union," is the verdict of Lev Gudkov, the director of the Levada Centre, Russia's most well respected polling organisation.

Cultural historian and publisher Irina Prokhorova goes further - she calls it "Stalinist", reminiscent of the anti-Western hysteria which marked the grim repressive years of the late 1940s.

[GentlemanJim]

same could be said for USA and west for supporting neo nazi and murder of civilians.

Keep in mind rebels are not foreigners but Ukrainian citizens who oppose Kiev and neo nazis

This is true if you listen ONLY to the news from Russia. All the other news agencies seem to agree that a significant number of the rebels are imported from Russia and paid by Russia, many of them from Chechnya security forces and Russian Spetsnaz. Even the rebel leaders themselves have acknowledged this few times.

If one listens to Russian news these days then it is scary and sounds as bad as Germany 75 years ago - Russia is the only country protecting the world against the influence of the evil West, and all the western countries are enemies plotting against Russia.

There are a few countries around under siege at the moment that would wholeheartedly agree that the world needs protecting from the 'influence of the evil West'.

[GentlemanJim]

.......If you want to know what The Ukraine Situation is all about....read this....

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=12186

...and stop painting Russia as the bad guy.....

...scum cause wars and kill people.....for profit.......

...and make up stories and point fingers....to get their way......

Yes let's not blame Russia for supporting rebels in another country's civil way by sending materiel and troops! Poor innocent Russia! Getting blamed for everything boohoo!

Obviously IYHO it's not OK for Russia to support rebels in the Ukraine but I assume you have no problem with the US supporting rebels in Syria and other places.

But there's a huge difference between support and boots on the ground. And a huge difference between support and illegal annexation of a sovereign country's territory.

Not sure what country you are from, but how do you think your citizens would feel if a big chunk was taken away? Not very good, I'd imagine.

Well your commendable philosophy hasn't garnered much help for the Palestinians has it? Do you actually have any truthful idea as to what is going on in Syria? A mate of mine has 'boots on the ground' working for the UN in that hell hole, and what he reports back is absolutely shocking. The 'support and boots on the ground' as you put it is providing a rebel military force with sophisticated weaponry that WILL be used against our own soldiers and troops, somewhere soon. As for there being a huge difference in 'support and illegal annexation of a sovereign countries territory', I agree with you, but perhaps Russia will just quote the recent precedent of the US and UK illegal 'annexation' of Iraq's sovereign territory as the role model to follow in Ukraine. Surely the Russians can claim entitlement to regime change in Ukraine as much as the US and UK claimed they wanted it in Iraq? It is ALL about Oil, money, resources and we are just the suckers that they all feed propaganda to in a bid to get us to believe their lies and deceit.

[BuaBS]

Putin should suck it up and close the natgas down. Let the euro's and ukrainians have a nice freezing winter....

And shut off any Palladium to. It's going to stink without catalytic converters for the diesel trucks in over regulated europe.

No flying over russian teritory or ten fold increase in price.

[lovetotravel]

Putin should suck it up and close the natgas down. Let the euro's and ukrainians have a nice freezing winter....

And shut off any Palladium to. It's going to stink without catalytic converters for the diesel trucks in over regulated europe.

No flying over russian teritory or ten fold increase in price.

With Russia's economy in recession, it's the last thing he needs to do. The oligarchs are so far supportive of Putin. Push them too far, and things could get messy for him. They don't like losing money, which is what will happen if this all goes too far.

Sanctions are a no-win game. Everybody loses.

[Basil B]

Watch the commodity markets! Russia/Ukraine export significant quantities of Iron, steel, Aluminium, Copper, Nickel.

This could get a lot worse before it gets anywhere near better.

The post by SOTIRIOS is close to the mark. Putin may well be in this up to his neck, but without the undoubted goading by certain Western countries this situation would not exist. The West is playing a dangerous game with the Ukraine. If rumours prove correct and Russia closes Siberian airspace to all European/US traffic flying to Asia etc then that would prove a real issue. Costs of travel will soar, journey times will increase significantly. The West will then impose sanctions on Russian air traffic and boom, get ready to build the wall again and watch for the defence corporations in the US and Europe having the party of the century. It is ALL about money and resources!!!

And tit for tat...

and if Europe, Malaysia, Australia, USA, etc. close their air space to Russian flights, it will hurt Russia a lot harder that is why Putin has not.

Putin will not last long when Russians return to the bad old days of queuing for hours for a few cabbage leaves.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Basil B

[Asiantravel]

Former NASA Boss: Russia Has US Space Program in ‘Hostage Situation’

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/07/former-nasa-boss-russia-has-us-space-program-in-hostage-situation/

Edited August 7, 2014 by Asiantravel

[BadBouy]

Former NASA Boss: Russia Has US Space Program in ‘Hostage Situation’

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/07/former-nasa-boss-russia-has-us-space-program-in-hostage-situation/

Obama underfunded NASA lay the blame on him not Russia.

[lovetotravel]

Former NASA Boss: Russia Has US Space Program in Hostage Situation

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/07/former-nasa-boss-russia-has-us-space-program-in-hostage-situation/

True for a few years, and then things could again change rapidly. And Russia will be back to square 1. From the same article:

But there is a new sort of space race happening now to help reestablish U.S. autonomy. Three private companies Boeing, Space-Ex and Sierra Nevada are currently competing for billions of dollars in NASA funding to build the next ride to space for American astronauts.

NASA hopes to announce the winner of the competition this summer and to launch the craft based on the winning design by 2017. This is encouraging news to Aldrin, who would like to see Americans return to the moon and go beyond it.

[khunken]

Putin should suck it up and close the natgas down. Let the euro's and ukrainians have a nice freezing winter....

And shut off any Palladium to. It's going to stink without catalytic converters for the diesel trucks in over regulated europe.

No flying over russian teritory or ten fold increase in price.

With Russia's economy in recession, it's the last thing he needs to do. The oligarchs are so far supportive of Putin. Push them too far, and things could get messy for him. They don't like losing money, which is what will happen if this all goes too far.

Sanctions are a no-win game. Everybody loses.

The oligarch mentioned in the Op will certainly be supporting Putin.

The crisis was started by the EU with considerable US influence in the background (& often in the foreground too). Not only is Ukraine desired by the west for it's minerals but also for yet another NATO base. NATO who did such a wonderful job in destablising Libya.

I don't particularly like Putin but he is exactly the leader needed to counteract yet more interference in yet another country. Russia is not an innocent party but is being blamed for everything including the MH17 disaster, which is a lie.

Sanctions will work both ways. The effect on Aeroflot being banned from overflights is far less than any ban on Russian overflights for major airlines. The Russian gas tap can be turned down or off at any time causing far more hurt to the likes of Germany than Russia itself. The country has insured itself for the future with a massive gas deal with the Chinese.

You are right - sanctions are a lose-lose game. The west started them and Russia will certainly respond. The chances of a Russian invasion of eastern Ukraine are getting higher & higher with every instance of western support for Ukraine's military to bloodily impose their way on ethnic Russian-speaking Ukrainians.

[lovetotravel]

The oligarch mentioned in the Op will certainly be supporting Putin.

The crisis was started by the EU with considerable US influence in the background (& often in the foreground too). Not only is Ukraine desired by the west for it's minerals but also for yet another NATO base. NATO who did such a wonderful job in destablising Libya.

I don't particularly like Putin but he is exactly the leader needed to counteract yet more interference in yet another country. Russia is not an innocent party but is being blamed for everything including the MH17 disaster, which is a lie.

Sanctions will work both ways. The effect on Aeroflot being banned from overflights is far less than any ban on Russian overflights for major airlines. The Russian gas tap can be turned down or off at any time causing far more hurt to the likes of Germany than Russia itself. The country has insured itself for the future with a massive gas deal with the Chinese.

You are right - sanctions are a lose-lose game. The west started them and Russia will certainly respond. The chances of a Russian invasion of eastern Ukraine are getting higher & higher with every instance of western support for Ukraine's military to bloodily impose their way on ethnic Russian-speaking Ukrainians.

Excellent commentary. But there's more than one oligarch involved here. Actually, quite a few.

Wasn't a starting point of all this, from a Western perspective, the invasion of the Crimea? Please correct me if I am wrong.

http://www.cfr.org/ukraine/ukraine-crisis/p32540

Ukraine's most prolonged and deadly crisis since its post-Soviet independence began as a protest against the government dropping plans to forge closer trade ties with the European Union, and has since spurred a global standoff between Russia and Western powers. The crisis stems from more than twenty years of weak governance, a lopsided economy dominated by oligarchs, heavy reliance on Russia, and sharp differences between Ukraine's linguistically, religiously, and ethnically distinct eastern and western halves. After the ouster of President Viktor Yanukovich in February 2014, Russia annexed the Crimean peninsula and the port city of Sevastopol, and deployed tens of thousands of forces near the border of eastern Ukraine, where tensions have escalated between pro-Russian separatists and the new government in Kiev. Russia's moves mark a serious challenge to established principles of world order such as sovereignty and nonintervention, and raises concerns by asserting the primacy of nationality over citizenship.

[khunken]

The oligarch mentioned in the Op will certainly be supporting Putin.

The crisis was started by the EU with considerable US influence in the background (& often in the foreground too). Not only is Ukraine desired by the west for it's minerals but also for yet another NATO base. NATO who did such a wonderful job in destablising Libya.

I don't particularly like Putin but he is exactly the leader needed to counteract yet more interference in yet another country. Russia is not an innocent party but is being blamed for everything including the MH17 disaster, which is a lie.

Sanctions will work both ways. The effect on Aeroflot being banned from overflights is far less than any ban on Russian overflights for major airlines. The Russian gas tap can be turned down or off at any time causing far more hurt to the likes of Germany than Russia itself. The country has insured itself for the future with a massive gas deal with the Chinese.

You are right - sanctions are a lose-lose game. The west started them and Russia will certainly respond. The chances of a Russian invasion of eastern Ukraine are getting higher & higher with every instance of western support for Ukraine's military to bloodily impose their way on ethnic Russian-speaking Ukrainians.

Excellent commentary. But there's more than one oligarch involved here. Actually, quite a few.

Wasn't a starting point of all this, from a Western perspective, the invasion of the Crimea? Please correct me if I am wrong.

http://www.cfr.org/ukraine/ukraine-crisis/p32540

Ukraine's most prolonged and deadly crisis since its post-Soviet independence began as a protest against the government dropping plans to forge closer trade ties with the European Union, and has since spurred a global standoff between Russia and Western powers. The crisis stems from more than twenty years of weak governance, a lopsided economy dominated by oligarchs, heavy reliance on Russia, and sharp differences between Ukraine's linguistically, religiously, and ethnically distinct eastern and western halves. After the ouster of President Viktor Yanukovich in February 2014, Russia annexed the Crimean peninsula and the port city of Sevastopol, and deployed tens of thousands of forces near the border of eastern Ukraine, where tensions have escalated between pro-Russian separatists and the new government in Kiev. Russia's moves mark a serious challenge to established principles of world order such as sovereignty and nonintervention, and raises concerns by asserting the primacy of nationality over citizenship.

No, the clue is in the piece you quoted.

The EU offered Yanukovich a deal which he initially accepted but Russia then offered him a better one (questionable) which he accepted. Protestors then took to the streets (peaceful ones and very violent ones described as fascists). Shooting and killing broke out from both sides and Mr Y started losing his grip. Note that the EU & US supported the protestors which is the likely start of the violent side of the whole Ukrainian crisis.

Yanukovich stepped down and the protest side took over and appointed a local oligarch as president (there was some sort of 'vote' but did not include all of Ukraine). The head of the CIA visited Kiev, ominously.

By now Russia had had enough and had it's allies in Crimea organise an election which they easily won. It should be noted that the election was mostly free and fair, just done in a hurry.

There is no doubt that Russia supports the ethnic Russians in Ukraine but there has been so much finger-pointing (particularly from the US) about how far that support goes.

The real problem now is, if Russia & (particularly) the separatists are pushed into a corner, that Russia will invade. Then the civil war (which is what it is) will be turned on its head and escalate even more if NATO, the US or the EU start pouring more weapons into the country.

It's really time for both sides to take a step back and let cool heads prevail. Those would be Merkel and the Dutch PM who are heavily affected for different reasons.

[F430murci]

Putin should suck it up and close the natgas down. Let the euro's and ukrainians have a nice freezing winter....

And shut off any Palladium to. It's going to stink without catalytic converters for the diesel trucks in over regulated europe.

No flying over russian teritory or ten fold increase in price.

With Russia's economy in recession, it's the last thing he needs to do. The oligarchs are so far supportive of Putin. Push them too far, and things could get messy for him. They don't like losing money, which is what will happen if this all goes too far.

Sanctions are a no-win game. Everybody loses.

No one actually knows if Oligarchs support Putin or are becoming increasingly frustrated. Many oligarchs that in the past opposed Putin were jailed if they refused to withdraw from politics or voiced political opposition. Open opposition is not a healthy proposition even for the oligarchs.

RE: Russia export/economy

Gotta love the humorous, wonderful advice as to what Russia should do to teach the big bad West a lesson. Do you guys even think through what you type????? Let's exmine economic impact to Russia for a reduction in just oil export dollars.

Putin and the oligarchs are terrified of US driving oil prices down just $10 per barrel which would cause $40 bn in losses to Russia. US could decrease price $10 to $12 through release of 500,000 reserve barrells a day. Price could be cut to $85 with an increase in production causing $80 to $100 bn in export losses to Russia.

Russia only has $505 bn in total exports, compared to US's $ 1.6 trillion. Russia will be bankrupted and in thrown into depression by $40 to $80 bn in losses caused by a mere $10 to $20 decrease in oil prices.

Then we have the rocket scientists declaring that Russia could just turn off oil exports to teach the big bad West a lesson. Yep, that will show them. Russia will lose $300 to $350 bn of its total export revenue and about 15% of it entire GDP. Great advise, except you guys will have to create a new term for the resulting economic impact of your wonderful suggestions because "depression" ust would not do it justice.

Edited August 7, 2014 by F430murci

[Harsh Jones]

Watch the commodity markets! Russia/Ukraine export significant quantities of Iron, steel, Aluminium, Copper, Nickel.

This could get a lot worse before it gets anywhere near better.

The post by SOTIRIOS is close to the mark. Putin may well be in this up to his neck, but without the undoubted goading by certain Western countries this situation would not exist. The West is playing a dangerous game with the Ukraine. If rumours prove correct and Russia closes Siberian airspace to all European/US traffic flying to Asia etc then that would prove a real issue. Costs of travel will soar, journey times will increase significantly. The West will then impose sanctions on Russian air traffic and boom, get ready to build the wall again and watch for the defence corporations in the US and Europe having the party of the century. It is ALL about money and resources!!!

Europe is already quivering at the retaliatory sanctions.

Politically motivated large-scale trade restrictions are a direct violation of WTO rules, which Russia pledged to comply with, the diplomat said. These measures will be thoroughly analyzed, and then relevant claims will be submitted with the WTO.

[khunken]

^^ post 24

The dealings with the EU are not about oil - it's gas. As is the huge deal recently signed between Russia & China. The oil price is a different issue to the topic and there's far more to it than an unlikely short-term significant drop in the oil price.

As an annex to my previous post, I had a look at the link provided by lovetotravel and in it there is a link to a piece from Henry Kissinger about the Ukraine. While not a Kissinger fan, what he says is about 90% correct. Given his stature in the US, he will surely be listened to and help to reduce the ball game being played out with Ukraine as the ball. But only if cooler heads prevail.

Edited August 7, 2014 by khunken

[Harsh Jones]

Putin should suck it up and close the natgas down. Let the euro's and ukrainians have a nice freezing winter....

And shut off any Palladium to. It's going to stink without catalytic converters for the diesel trucks in over regulated europe.

No flying over russian teritory or ten fold increase in price.

With Russia's economy in recession, it's the last thing he needs to do. The oligarchs are so far supportive of Putin. Push them too far, and things could get messy for him. They don't like losing money, which is what will happen if this all goes too far.

Sanctions are a no-win game. Everybody loses.

No one actually knows if Oligarchs support Putin or are becoming increasingly frustrated. Many oligarchs that in the past opposed Putin were jailed if they refused to withdraw from politics or voiced political opposition. Open opposition is not a healthy proposition even for the oligarchs.

RE: Russia export/economy

Gotta love the humorous, wonderful advice as to what Russia should do to teach the big bad West a lesson. Do you guys even think through what you type????? Let's exmine economic impact to Russia for a reduction in just oil export dollars.

Putin and the oligarchs are terrified of US driving oil prices down just $10 per barrel which would cause $40 bn in losses to Russia. US could decrease price $10 to $12 through release of 500,000 reserve barrells a day. Price could be cut to $85 with an increase in production causing $80 to $100 bn in export losses to Russia.

Russia only has $505 bn in total exports, compared to US's $ 1.6 trillion. Russia will be bankrupted and in thrown into depression by $40 to $80 bn in losses caused by a mere $10 to $20 decrease in oil prices.

Then we have the rocket scientists declaring that Russia could just turn off oil exports to teach the big bad West a lesson. Yep, that will show them. Russia will lose $300 to $350 bn of its total export revenue and about 15% of it entire GDP. Great advise, except you guys will have to create a new term for the resulting economic impact of your wonderful suggestions because "depression" ust would not do it justice.

Russian oil is cheap. Just like it's gas that it just set up a deal with China for under market prices. The ten dollar drop in oil will pop the subprime shale oil bubble in the US mostly.

Funny how you come out and admit that the US manipulates world commodity prices to whatever it wants that day.

[Asiantravel]

what did the EU expect to happen?

Draghi Outlook Menaced by Putin as Ukraine Crisis Bites

The crisis in eastern Europe is showing signs of disrupting Mario Draghi’s economic outlook.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-06/draghi-outlook-menaced-by-putin-as-ukraine-crisis-bites.html

[lovetotravel]

No, the clue is in the piece you quoted.

The EU offered Yanukovich a deal which he initially accepted but Russia then offered him a better one (questionable) which he accepted. Protestors then took to the streets (peaceful ones and very violent ones described as fascists). Shooting and killing broke out from both sides and Mr Y started losing his grip. Note that the EU & US supported the protestors which is the likely start of the violent side of the whole Ukrainian crisis.

Yanukovich stepped down and the protest side took over and appointed a local oligarch as president (there was some sort of 'vote' but did not include all of Ukraine). The head of the CIA visited Kiev, ominously.

By now Russia had had enough and had it's allies in Crimea organise an election which they easily won. It should be noted that the election was mostly free and fair, just done in a hurry.

There is no doubt that Russia supports the ethnic Russians in Ukraine but there has been so much finger-pointing (particularly from the US) about how far that support goes.

The real problem now is, if Russia & (particularly) the separatists are pushed into a corner, that Russia will invade. Then the civil war (which is what it is) will be turned on its head and escalate even more if NATO, the US or the EU start pouring more weapons into the country.

It's really time for both sides to take a step back and let cool heads prevail. Those would be Merkel and the Dutch PM who are heavily affected for different reasons.

Ok. Maybe the EU and the US supported protesters, but did they have boots on the ground? Like what Russia did in the Crimea and is doing now? The answer is NO. Putin admits he had troops on the ground during the Crimea invasion. No arguing that. And he'll eventually admit he had troops in the current conflict. It's a widely known "secret".

Election done in a hurry in the Crimea? That's an understatement. The entire world, other than Russia, agrees it was a sham. Come on. Hardly free and fair. Hard to have a fair election at the end of a gun.

How can Russia invade a sovereign country? That's a violation of international law. Right? Time for Putin to step back. He's the one one with up to 40,000 troops on the border with Ukraine. No other country is doing this. Pretty one sided, eh?

The Dutch PM has a very good reason to be upset with the Russians. They should be ashamed at what happened. And cooperating fully. Which they are not.

[rickirs]

Putin's Putin banned or curbed agricultural imports is a ruse, one that will directly hurt the Russian people in terms of food shortages and inflate the ruble as the price of ANY agricultural imports will skyrocket by other foreigner suppliers who will charge whatever the Russian market will bear - it will be a seller's market

Most of all Russian imported foodstuffs come from the West. Putin's new ban includes different kinds of vegetables, fruit, and meat; cheeses, meat, and dairy products; US poultry imports and Ukrainian soy. Putin had previously banned Australian beef, Latvian and Lithuanian pork, Molovan fruit and Ukrainian juice since the Russian annexation of Crimea. That has been since followed with a ban on Polish fruits.

The share of agriculture in total GDP in Russia decreased from 14.3% in 1991 to 4% in 2011. The agricultural sector accounted for 9% of total employment in 2010. Russia’s heavy reliance on foreign agricultural imports is due largely a slow transition from state-run planning reminiscent of the old communist communes to free-market private enterprises. Over 50% of Russia’s farms carry considerable debt, due in part to the disparity between government-controlled grain prices and production costs, and few farms are able to offer sufficient collateral to secure a loan. As a result, many farms are forced to rely on outside investors to guarantee loans; the EU/US sanctions will cut the availability of those investors.

A significant portion of the Russian grain crop remains unharvested, due mostly to unfavorable weather during the Russian harvest period. Further compounding poor agricultural productivity is that 23% of all agricultural land is bare fallow land that is situated in the remote areas without any adequate infrastructure.

So the Russian agricultural industry is an economic mess and not capable by itself to sustain the Russian population. If Putin imposes his bans over a long term, he will do more to damage the Russian economy than the EU/US sanctions.