Golden Triangle rip-off

[boomerangutang]

I was driving with a friend, and we stopped at the tourist junction called 'Golden Triangle' which is just north of Chiang Saen, on the Mekong river. I strolled to the official-looking desk to ask some questions. There was a Thai woman sitting there. She said to get to the park across the river (in Laos) necessitates a Laos visa, cost Bt.2,000. I raised my eyebrows and expressed wonder. A Thai guy sitting at a nearby desk grinned and made a stifled laugh sound. After about two minutes, the lady said in Thai, "ok, you wanna go to the park over there in Laos, I let you go without paying for visa." She also said the boat fee for going down the river to Chiang Saen was Bt.8,000 - which is also ridiculous, because the two day boat fee from Chiang Kong to Labang Prabang in Laos is only Bt.1,000 (when I did the trip 2 years ago).

The point here: Those two people, particularly the woman, who were sitting at government-looking desks at the entrance to the boat launch - ARE RIPPING OFF TOURISTS.

If she gets 30 people/day to pay the unnecessary Bt.2000 each for a bogus visa, that's an average of 60,000 baht she can put in her pocketbook each day - or share with her friend who seemed to be part of the rip-off.

Does the TAT know about this?

[HooHaa]

shameful, someone should do something.

[boomerangutang]

addendum; I got the name 'Luang Prabang' spelled wrong in OP post above.

More importantly: The thieves described above in the OP should be arrested, and charged with theft/extortion/fraud. It would be rather easy to get an audio/video of them ripping people off. Better, would be set up a simple sting operation. However, it's very doubtful Thai police have the willingness or ability to do that. Easier to just tell the rip-offs to split or clean up their act. Mai pen rai, if they've already garnered hundreds of thousands of baht in bogus fees. This is Thailand after all.

[ichingguy]

to be fair: let's just call this a "fools tax" for the tourist crowd and not applicable for the in the know crowd like us tv posters

[boomerangutang]

to be fair: let's just call this a "fools tax" for the tourist crowd and not applicable for the in the know crowd like us tv posters

A rip-off is a rip-off. Thais and other Asians get ripped-off too.

Thai Visa members and farang residents who have resided in Thailand for a coon's age can also get ripped off. Any who say they are above being ripped off are living a lie.

That's what police are for. In parts of Somalia or eastern Congo, there are no police, so thugs rule. How different is Thailand?

[harrry]

Do you mean we should tell immigration so that they can arrest the tourists and charge them with illegally leaving Thailand to go to Laos and then again for attempting to re-enter Thailand without a visa.

[villagefarang]

There is a much underused response which goes something like this, “No, thank you.” If you don’t want to do something or think you are being charged too much, simply walk away. They used to say it takes two to tango, so if you refuse to be their dance partner, they cannot rip you off. Unless they have a gun to your head, if you agree then you are part of the problem.

Don’t be a victim, take responsibility for your own actions. Just my two cents from someone who enjoys living the lie, and not getting ripped off.

[boomerangutang]

Do you mean we should tell immigration so that they can arrest the tourists and charge them with illegally leaving Thailand to go to Laos and then again for attempting to re-enter Thailand without a visa.

Wow, what an odd response. Doing the cross-the-river to visit the park in Laos is not illegal. It's a tourist attraction that both countries are behind.

There is a much underused response which goes something like this, No, thank you. If you dont want to do something or think you are being charged too much, simply walk away. They used to say it takes two to tango, so if you refuse to be their dance partner, they cannot rip you off. Unless they have a gun to your head, if you agree then you are part of the problem.

Dont be a victim, take responsibility for your own actions. Just my two cents from someone who enjoys living the lie, and not getting ripped off.

When I look at something that might be bad, I think, "is it harmful? And if so, who or what (the environment?) is getting hurt?" If I deem it harmful, I next might think what I can do to stop it. Example: If I see a dog tied to a tree with a rope and beaten by a child, (or if I see a woman being beaten by a man) I'll likely speak up to try and stop it happening. Most other people might just walk by and figure it's a cultural thing, or at the least, not their business. Ignoring it is the easiest thing to do.

In the case of the rip-off at Golden Triangle, it was a clear case of a self-appointed woman and man who were ripping people off. What's the harm done? Tourists getting ripped off. Could I ignore it? Yes, easy to do, and dozens of tourists per day would go on and get extorted. But I chose to speak up - and possibly close down the operation so dozens of tourists/day avoid getting ripped off.

On the other hand, I might harbor some disdain for tourists, and perhaps gain some private joy that they're getting ripped off by the dozens. Not my style, dude.

From Wikipedia (re; Golden Triangle):

Go on a boat ride across to a small island named Don Sao, belonging to Laos. No visa for Laos is required to make this trip.

[harrry]

If they leaveThailand to Laos of course they need a visa.

[boomerangutang]

If they leaveThailand to Laos of course they need a visa.

Not to get to that park in Laos which is on that island in the river. It's a mutually agreed-upon tourist thing between Thailand and Laos.

[villagefarang]

Do you really see women and dogs being beaten? I guess we run in different circles as I do not encounter those things in my daily life. Perhaps you are more interested in the touristy things since you make your living from them but again I don’t run in those circles or do touristy things. It is not a matter of disdain or some perverse joy derived from the foibles of others, that is not my style either, dude.

You seem to live in such an unpleasant world, but I wish you luck in your efforts to change that world.

[boomerangutang]

Do you really see women and dogs being beaten? I guess we run in different circles as I do not encounter those things in my daily life. Perhaps you are more interested in the touristy things since you make your living from them but again I dont run in those circles or do touristy things. It is not a matter of disdain or some perverse joy derived from the foibles of others, that is not my style either, dude.

You seem to live in such an unpleasant world, but I wish you luck in your efforts to change that world.

We live in the same world. Are you insinuating my world is unpleasant because I notice (and mention) a rip-off operation going on in a nearby area? Do you contest there is a rip-off operation going on? If so, let's hear your counter-argument. On the other hand, do you agree it's going on? If so, is that fine with you? Is it negative for a person to notice something unjust going on? ....and endeavor to put the word out, if nothing else, it may help some people avoid getting ripped off.

There was a campaign to defuse land mines. Would you say the person heading that campaign 'lives in an unpleasant world' (or is negative) because he/she notices that problem? Land mines are different than ripping off tourists for $1,000/day, but the principle is similar: Notice something awry, and endeavor to set things right.

Hypothetical: If 5 of your relatives visited from overseas, and went to visit the Golden Triangle (while you were doing something else). At the end of the day, they come back and report they each paid 2,000 for a Laos visa, and visited an island in the river for an hour. How would you react if you realized they'd been ripped off - because they were falsely informed they needed a visa, when they actually didn't.

If I can contribute to closing down the rip-off operation at GT, then that could possibly save tourists tens of thousands of baht per week. If you don't care, fine, that's your prerogative to not care about whatever you choose. You have your interests, I have mine. It's doubtful all our interests are identical.

[siriweith]

boomerang

is true what you are talking

also about when the man beat the woman and a lot of think

i don't know how long do you spend in this country

but if you want to try to have long life

is much better

you don't interesting about what people doing.

this is what thailand teach.

I know is not correct to do like this

but help to survival.

tourist are not soo important for us

they can loose 1000 baht

but life we have only 1

and so is better try to keep.

We cannot change one country

because we think is correct like this

is correct but they use them way.

Far away from any problem.

Edited August 18, 2014 by siriweith

[villagefarang]

Your use of hyperbole and penchant for often bizarre theoretical examples, designed to elicit an emotional response, may have the desired effect in some circles but tends to diminish your credibility in my eyes.

The list of nasty stuff going on in the world everyday is encyclopedic in scope and you are free to choose which battles you wish to fight. Personally I have chosen a different path from yours and plan of spending my remaining years focussed on the beauty which surrounds me rather than seeking out the darkness which lurks in the hearts of man and tilting at windmills like Don Quixote.

[boomerangutang]

If I see a rip-off operation in my vicinity and it's relatively easy to close it down, I'm going to go for it. Think about the (possibly dozens per day) people who get scammed, each for Bt.2,000 each. It's no fun to get cheated out of money. However, perhaps you're right: if it's other peoples' problems, it's easy to ignore. To each his own.

That's part of the job description for police: assist people to avoid harm and getting things stolen.

P.S. the question in my above post (5 of your relatives from abroad) is not so tough to address. Can you give an answer? to re-phrase it: If 5 of your dear relatives or dear friends came back from a visit to a local park and realized belatedly they'd each been cheated out of Bt.2,000. What would be your reaction? mai pen rai?

How about if it was at a local restaurant? The bill for food arrives, and each diner has a surcharge of Bt.2,000 added. You find out later, it's not restaurant policy, but instead was just the waitress who tacked on the 2,000/person in order to garner a bunch more money for herself. Mai pen rai, eh.

Edited August 18, 2014 by boomerangutang

[boomerangutang]

My OP attempts to do 2 things:

>>> a heads-up warning to others who may consider going to the park alongside the Golden Triangle. It could save them Bt.2,000 each.

>>> possibly closing down a rip-off operation.

Who has a problem with that? I'm not asking people to have the same world outlook as me, though there is a general assumption on my part: A. people don't like getting ripped off.

If anyone posting on this forum knows of a rip-off trap, thanks in advance for putting out a notice about it. It might save me or someone else from getting ripped off. Similarly, if you know of a potentially dangerous situation, let others know. If you choose not to do so, that's up to you.

[siriweith]

Nobody can write samething about because

we want to live in thailand

and is not time for superhero.

This is the question

live or not to live.

Who help me if i need samething?

For the others people is the same.

Edited August 18, 2014 by siriweith

[AjarnP]

Tis clear to me. If you can't get on with being stung or standing by, tight lipped, whilst someone else does...You're living not only in the wrong country but the wrong continent.

[villagefarang]

As to Boomer’s question, if such a thing were to happen to my friends or family it would most definitely be my fault. For I take responsibility for the safety, comfort and convenience of those who come to stay with us in our humble home. Clearly it is a hypothetical question, however, and would not be allowed to happen.

If I were to encounter someone else who suffered such a fate and if they were to ask me what I think, I would sit them down and walk them through what they did wrong to put themselves in such a situation to begin with and advise them on how to act more wisely in the future, not that I would expect them to listen.

The lack of consequences often limits the possibility that someone will learn from a situation but having lost some money, one is presented with motivation to learn important life lessons. In life, as in the wild, there exists both predator and prey. The predator serves to make us stronger and more self-reliant. Learning to take care of oneself and not be a victim is a priceless lesson.

[scorpio1945]

To bad this thread did not stop after the original post. I thought it was quite useful information as I have had guests and tourist acquaintances that I have not accompanied to the GT that I would have imparted that information. He should be thanked.

Boomers passion to "do the right thing" opens him up to those who know that until Thais get in front of an issue then nothing is going to change and then it may take a Coup to make it happen.

Thanks for the original post.

[villagefarang]

Certainly you're not suggesting we take everything posted on this forum, real or imagined, at face value say thank you and shut up without any discussion at all?

When some people encounter conspiracies at every turn and I never do I become a little bit skeptical.

[Rotweiler]

We jusrt got home. I wil guess we were at that exact same point yesterday. Darned if I saw anything like that. I DID however see a "tourist Information" stand with a lady offering tourist trips to Laos. No mention of multi-thousand B visa fees - but they DID ask for a 200B (per person) trip fee for the boat ride, and they did tell us of the Lao island "immigration" fee of 30B.

It was DEFINATELY a rip-off. The Lao "immigration" fee was actually 50B.

Got a nice T-shirt, though - 120B.

Certainly you're not suggesting we take everything posted on this forum, real or imagined, at face value say thank you and shut up without any discussion at all?

When some people encounter conspiracies at every turn and I never do I become a little bit skeptical.

[harrry]

We jusrt got home. I wil guess we were at that exact same point yesterday. Darned if I saw anything like that. I DID however see a "tourist Information" stand with a lady offering tourist trips to Laos. No mention of multi-thousand B visa fees - but they DID ask for a 200B (per person) trip fee for the boat ride, and they did tell us of the Lao island "immigration" fee of 30B.

It was DEFINATELY a rip-off. The Lao "immigration" fee was actually 50B.

Got a nice T-shirt, though - 120B.

Certainly you're not suggesting we take everything posted on this forum, real or imagined, at face value say thank you and shut up without any discussion at all?

When some people encounter conspiracies at every turn and I never do I become a little bit skeptical.

Someone will come on now and say the boat trip back cost 2000 baht.

Good to hear about this.

[boomerangutang]

We jusrt got home. I wil guess we were at that exact same point yesterday. Darned if I saw anything like that. I DID however see a "tourist Information" stand with a lady offering tourist trips to Laos. No mention of multi-thousand B visa fees - but they DID ask for a 200B (per person) trip fee for the boat ride, and they did tell us of the Lao island "immigration" fee of 30B.

It was DEFINATELY a rip-off. The Lao "immigration" fee was actually 50B.

Got a nice T-shirt, though - 120B.

Certainly you're not suggesting we take everything posted on this forum, real or imagined, at face value say thank you and shut up without any discussion at all?

When some people encounter conspiracies at every turn and I never do I become a little bit skeptical.

In my OP I mentioned she told (and wanted to charge) me Bt.2,000 just for the Laos visa (which she is probably not entitled to issue) - just to go to the park in the river.

It's quite likely she mentioned the same to other tourists coming to her desk. Why not, if it's an easy 2,000 baht/pop. She might get a clean Bt.50,000/day with just 25 suckers.

I've been on a mini-campaign about this for over a week. I wrote TAT and made a mention to our local Tourist Police. It's possible they gave a warning to the woman at the desk (and her male accomplice at the other desk alongside). That could explain why she may now be asking a reasonable Bt.200 for boat trip, and not an additional 2,000 for Laos Visa (which, as mentioned earlier, is not needed).

In sum, I may have contributed to shutting down the rip-off aspect of her operation, and thereby saving future tourists mucho dinero in unneeded expenses. A phone call from the right authority could have done it. Better would have been a sting operation and legal proceedings, but that's not Thai style. If she had been doing the same for a year, she could have extorted well over a million baht from unwitting tourists. Not chump change.

Edited August 22, 2014 by boomerangutang

[scooterboy]

Good on ya, Boomer!

ALL rip-offs, scams, tourist traps - or whatever you choose to call them - should be aired. Indeed, what better place to air them than on TV. It's always appreciated (at least by myself and a few others) to get a heads-up about what's going down in different places - so thanks for that!

Yeah, of course, ya have to put up with the ever-present "it's ok to try and cheat, it's Thailand" weirdies - but that's all part of TV.

Again - good on ya!

Cheers

[Robinsons]

We jusrt got home. I wil guess we were at that exact same point yesterday. Darned if I saw anything like that. I DID however see a "tourist Information" stand with a lady offering tourist trips to Laos. No mention of multi-thousand B visa fees - but they DID ask for a 200B (per person) trip fee for the boat ride, and they did tell us of the Lao island "immigration" fee of 30B.

It was DEFINATELY a rip-off. The Lao "immigration" fee was actually 50B.

Got a nice T-shirt, though - 120B.

Certainly you're not suggesting we take everything posted on this forum, real or imagined, at face value say thank you and shut up without any discussion at all?

When some people encounter conspiracies at every turn and I never do I become a little bit skeptical.

In my OP I mentioned she told (and wanted to charge) me Bt.2,000 just for the Laos visa (which she is probably not entitled to issue) - just to go to the park in the river.

It's quite likely she mentioned the same to other tourists coming to her desk. Why not, if it's an easy 2,000 baht/pop. She might get a clean Bt.50,000/day with just 25 suckers.

I've been on a mini-campaign about this for over a week. I wrote TAT and made a mention to our local Tourist Police. It's possible they gave a warning to the woman at the desk (and her male accomplice at the other desk alongside). That could explain why she may now be asking a reasonable Bt.200 for boat trip, and not an additional 2,000 for Laos Visa (which, as mentioned earlier, is not needed).

In sum, I may have contributed to shutting down the rip-off aspect of her operation, and thereby saving future tourists mucho dinero in unneeded expenses. A phone call from the right authority could have done it. Better would have been a sting operation and legal proceedings, but that's not Thai style. If she had been doing the same for a year, she could have extorted well over a million baht from unwitting tourists. Not chump change.

Good Job Boomer!!!

[villagefarang]

None of us really know what transpired in this case, so I am reluctant to jump to a conclusion without hearing both sides. In my experience over the years, a simple misunderstanding or failure to communicate, is often at the core of these tales of foreigners being taken advantage of. That may or may not be the situation here, none of us know for sure.

[OneZero]

Villagefarang,

I think you have made many very respectable posts (& pictures) on this forum. So my hats off to you. Well done.

But now other things are in evidence here. Your need to criticise any minute detail that boomer has to say has gone beyond boring. I was wondering when you would jump on him again and you did not fail us. His intentions are good and none of us are perfect. How about giving him, and the rest of us a break, so that when we open a thread we don't just see a further off topic distraction evidence of your dislike of boomerangatan

[villagefarang]

My remarks were not meant as a personal insult to Boomer but as a general reminder that everything one reads on forums like this should be taken with a gain of salt. Members are so eager to jump on the bandwagon when negative accusations are made about Thailand. No one ever questions the veracity of the accusations or the inferences a poster makes, if that person is a foreigner.

I understand my opinions do not set well with a number of people but I have never resorted to the kind of language and name calling that are frequently hurled at me. I do not dislike Boomer and to say I do, simply because I disagree with some of his interpretations of events is a misrepresentation.

We should be able to disagree and discuss things in a civil manner without getting all emotional and accusatory.

[boomerangutang]

I agree: disagreements don't translate to dislike. I don't think there was anything personal going on with the varied posts. As for veracity: I reported what happened to me. It's possible, though unlikely, that it was an anomaly (her deciding to pick me as the only farang to extort) but I seriously doubt it, because she went to the Bt.2,000 visa fee right away, as smoothly as flipping a banana pancake. ....then, after a pregnant minute, while I made a perturbed/funny face, and looked squarely at her accomplice, ....the man at the adjoining desk winked and said something in Thai to the lady, and she grinned and said, "ok, for you, I won't charge the visa fee."

If I was the standard tourist, I would have forked over the Bt.2,000 (per person in my group) because that's what tourists are supposed to do: Do what locals instruct them to do, particularly when the locals are manning official-looking desks.