Martouf Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I have a friend who messed up with his non-o visa renewal and as of today he has overstayed 90 days. We have all been telling him to get it sorted but he didn't listen and he only has himself to blame. He gets his pension maybe tomorrow and he is intending to go Laos via Nong Khai by monday. However if the rules on people overstaying more than 90 days are being enforced as of today then he is banned for a year. does everybody agree ? or do you think they may be lenient? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Then new overstay rules have not been approved yet. Them starting today is a rumor or a twisting of facts the only thing that started today was a new police order for extensions of stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martouf Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Then new overstay rules have not been approved yet. Them starting today is a rumor or a twisting of facts the only thing that started today was a new police order for extensions of stay. Ok / thanks Ubonjoe - I'll tell him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawaiimomo Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) Then new overstay rules have not been approved yet. Them starting today is a rumor or a twisting of facts the only thing that started today was a new police order for extensions of stay. @Martouf, I would be very careful if I was your friend. I was today at Chaeng Wattana to extend my non-B based on my WP and they found out I/company let the previous WP expire so I am technically in overstay. The officer found it was very funny that these new rules started being enforced today. I was handled a document to acknowledge that 90 days overstay = 1 year blacklisted if you surrender yourself (I guess immigration, border or airport), and I was explained that it would be enforced from today. BTW this was the head of business visa extensions section at Bangkok immigration, so I would assume she knows what she was talking about. I am not at 90 days yet but I can tell you she made me feel very scared, and just because I/company forgot to renew the WP and now there is a gap of 2 weeks between the old and new WP :-( EDIT: ubonjoe, I just re read your post and you mention new police order for extensions of stay , what does exactly that mean? I just don't get it :S Edited August 29, 2014 by kawaiimomo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paz Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) @Martouf, I would be very careful if I was your friend. I was today at Chaeng Wattana to extend my non-B based on my WP and they found out I/company let the previous WP expire so I am technically in overstay. The officer found it was very funny that these new rules started being enforced today. I was handled a document to acknowledge that 90 days overstay = 1 year blacklisted if you surrender yourself (I guess immigration, border or airport), and I was explained that it would be enforced from today. BTW this was the head of business visa extensions section at Bangkok immigration, so I would assume she knows what she was talking about. Practically speaking, for a Thai immigration or police officer to ban anyone from entering Thailand all he/she has to do is login with the right credentials and key in something. That has always existed and there is evidence that occasionally it has been done even without a sound legal basis. Now, I think that is a task normally reserved to specialized police officers that execute courts decisions, e.g. ban as a consequence of having been sentenced, often at the same time of deportation. I have no problem in believing they can enforce it at any time with little chances for one to even know or appeal. No surprise they will try to hook it on the date of today, a typical approach of simplifying things when convenient for them, but complicating when it is not. However, from the reliable information, fully legalizing banning needs approval at a level above the one that is currently available to Immigration Bureau itself - some say Cabinet. Given the current situation there is not hard to think there are some issues in getting things done, beside as with everything in Thailand there may be some power fight behind the scenes of which we don't and will never know. Edited August 29, 2014 by paz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawaiimomo Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 @Martouf, I would be very careful if I was your friend. I was today at Chaeng Wattana to extend my non-B based on my WP and they found out I/company let the previous WP expire so I am technically in overstay. The officer found it was very funny that these new rules started being enforced today. I was handled a document to acknowledge that 90 days overstay = 1 year blacklisted if you surrender yourself (I guess immigration, border or airport), and I was explained that it would be enforced from today. BTW this was the head of business visa extensions section at Bangkok immigration, so I would assume she knows what she was talking about. Practically speaking, for a Thai immigration or police officer to ban anyone from entering Thailand all he/she has to do is login with the right credentials and key in something. That has always existed and there is evidence that occasionally it has been done even without a sound legal basis. Now, I think that is a task normally reserved to specialized police officers that execute courts decisions, e.g. ban as a consequence of having been sentenced, often at the same time of deportation. I have no problem in believing they can enforce it at any time with little chances for one to even know or appeal. No surprise they will try to hook it on the date of today, a typical approach of simplifying things when convenient for them, but complicating when it is not. However, from the reliable information, fully legalizing banning needs approval at a level above the one that is currently available to Immigration Bureau itself - some say Cabinet. Given the current situation there is not hard to think there are some issues in getting things done, beside as with everything in Thailand there may be some power fight behind the scenes of which we don't and will never know. I can tell you the officer made me feel very scared. I have dealt with this same lady for all my previous non-B extensions and she was always funny and smiling (even when we missed some document), but today's face when found out about the gap between the WP was not nice at all. She then send us to another officer for further review, and this one was even less nice. To me it looked like they got some direct orders on being way more strict (they were even questioning the office photographs and trying to find issues everywhere [like my current cheapskate company declares a lower base salary and covers the rest with incentives, I guess for tax saving or something, but they declared my real salary and the officers were questioning which one was the real one. This has been the same practice for the previous 3 years and this is the first time it has ever been questioned]). Given the current 'government' I wouldn't be surprised to know that they can do whatever they please. Well it can't be hard for them to get ministerial approval or whatever they need, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martouf Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 @Martouf, I would be very careful if I was your friend. I was today at Chaeng Wattana to extend my non-B based on my WP and they found out I/company let the previous WP expire so I am technically in overstay. The officer found it was very funny that these new rules started being enforced today. I was handled a document to acknowledge that 90 days overstay = 1 year blacklisted if you surrender yourself (I guess immigration, border or airport), and I was explained that it would be enforced from today. BTW this was the head of business visa extensions section at Bangkok immigration, so I would assume she knows what she was talking about. Practically speaking, for a Thai immigration or police officer to ban anyone from entering Thailand all he/she has to do is login with the right credentials and key in something. That has always existed and there is evidence that occasionally it has been done even without a sound legal basis. Now, I think that is a task normally reserved to specialized police officers that execute courts decisions, e.g. ban as a consequence of having been sentenced, often at the same time of deportation. I have no problem in believing they can enforce it at any time with little chances for one to even know or appeal. No surprise they will try to hook it on the date of today, a typical approach of simplifying things when convenient for them, but complicating when it is not. However, from the reliable information, fully legalizing banning needs approval at a level above the one that is currently available to Immigration Bureau itself - some say Cabinet. Given the current situation there is not hard to think there are some issues in getting things done, beside as with everything in Thailand there may be some power fight behind the scenes of which we don't and will never know. I can tell you the officer made me feel very scared. I have dealt with this same lady for all my previous non-B extensions and she was always funny and smiling (even when we missed some document), but today's face when found out about the gap between the WP was not nice at all. She then send us to another officer for further review, and this one was even less nice. To me it looked like they got some direct orders on being way more strict (they were even questioning the office photographs and trying to find issues everywhere [like my current cheapskate company declares a lower base salary and covers the rest with incentives, I guess for tax saving or something, but they declared my real salary and the officers were questioning which one was the real one. This has been the same practice for the previous 3 years and this is the first time it has ever been questioned]). Given the current 'government' I wouldn't be surprised to know that they can do whatever they please. Well it can't be hard for them to get ministerial approval or whatever they need, I guess. Assuming my friend does go by Monday I'll post an update as to what Nong Khai's attitude is like If he does get a ban, in his case he only has himself to blame as many people have tried to help him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martouf Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 @Martouf, I would be very careful if I was your friend. I was today at Chaeng Wattana to extend my non-B based on my WP and they found out I/company let the previous WP expire so I am technically in overstay. The officer found it was very funny that these new rules started being enforced today. I was handled a document to acknowledge that 90 days overstay = 1 year blacklisted if you surrender yourself (I guess immigration, border or airport), and I was explained that it would be enforced from today. BTW this was the head of business visa extensions section at Bangkok immigration, so I would assume she knows what she was talking about. Practically speaking, for a Thai immigration or police officer to ban anyone from entering Thailand all he/she has to do is login with the right credentials and key in something. That has always existed and there is evidence that occasionally it has been done even without a sound legal basis. Now, I think that is a task normally reserved to specialized police officers that execute courts decisions, e.g. ban as a consequence of having been sentenced, often at the same time of deportation. I have no problem in believing they can enforce it at any time with little chances for one to even know or appeal. No surprise they will try to hook it on the date of today, a typical approach of simplifying things when convenient for them, but complicating when it is not. However, from the reliable information, fully legalizing banning needs approval at a level above the one that is currently available to Immigration Bureau itself - some say Cabinet. Given the current situation there is not hard to think there are some issues in getting things done, beside as with everything in Thailand there may be some power fight behind the scenes of which we don't and will never know. I can tell you the officer made me feel very scared. I have dealt with this same lady for all my previous non-B extensions and she was always funny and smiling (even when we missed some document), but today's face when found out about the gap between the WP was not nice at all. She then send us to another officer for further review, and this one was even less nice. To me it looked like they got some direct orders on being way more strict (they were even questioning the office photographs and trying to find issues everywhere [like my current cheapskate company declares a lower base salary and covers the rest with incentives, I guess for tax saving or something, but they declared my real salary and the officers were questioning which one was the real one. This has been the same practice for the previous 3 years and this is the first time it has ever been questioned]). Given the current 'government' I wouldn't be surprised to know that they can do whatever they please. Well it can't be hard for them to get ministerial approval or whatever they need, I guess. Assuming my friend does go by Monday I'll post an update as to what Nong Khai's attitude is like If he does get a ban, in his case he only has himself to blame as many people have tried to help him Unfortunately my friend has decided to bury his head in the sand and get pissed - we have all told him to stop being stupid !!! Therefore, unfortunately I cannot give an update of the current situation in Nong Khai I will as soon as this friend gets off his arse ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martouf Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 The following was posted on facebook by Nong Khai immigration and according to my school there are now enforcing the ban if you try to leave via the bridge. What was strange the school said if you leave by air, no problem. This therefore makes me think the new rules are not yet officially in force and it's NK adopting their own policy แจ้งแนวทางปฏิบัติของสำนักงานตรวจคนเข้าเมือง กรณีการห้ามคนต่างด้าว ที่จงใจฝ่าฝืนกฎหมาย ว่าด้วยคนเข้าเมือง อยู่ในราชอาณาจักร โดยการอนุญาตสิ้นสุดเป็นระยะเวลานานเข้ามาราชอาณาจักร ดังนี้Acknowledge that the Immigration Bureau regulates the penalties for the aliens who violate the Immigration Act, B.E.2522 by overstaying the Kingdom of Thailand as follows:กรณีคนต่างด้าวเข้ามอบตัวIn the case that the alien surrenders himself/herself- อยู่เกินกำหนดอนุญาตเกินกว่า ๙๐ วัน ห้ามเข้าราชอาณาจักรเป็นเวลา ๑ ปีOverstay more than 90days forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 1 year - อยู่เกินกำหนดอนุญาตเกินกว่า ๑ ปี ห้ามเข้าราชอาณาจักรเป็นเวลา ๓ ปีOverstay more than 1 year forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 3 years- อยู่เกินกำหนดอนุญาตเกินกว่า ๓ ปี ห้ามเข้าราชอาณาจักรเป็นเวลา ๕ ปีOverstay more than 3 years forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 5 years- อยู่เกินกำหนดอนุญาตเกินกว่า 5 ปี ห้ามเข้าราชอาณาจักรเป็นเวลา ๑๐ ปีOverstay more than 5 years forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 10 yearsกรณีคนต่างด้าวถูกจับกุมดำเนินคดีIn the case that the alien is being apprehended-อยู่เกินกำหนดอนุญาตน้อยกว่า ๑ ปี ห้ามเข้าราชอาณาจักรเป็นเวลา ๕ ปีOverstay for less than 1 year forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 5 years-อยู่เกินกำหนดอนุญาตเกินกว่า ๑ ปี ห้ามเข้าราชอาณาจักรเป็นเวลา ๑๐ ปีOverstay for more than 1 year forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 10 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 There have been no reports of the new rules being enforced anywhere. They have not been approved so it is not possible for them to be enforced. That Facebook page post probably has been up for some time now. Nothing new there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martouf Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 There have been no reports of the new rules being enforced anywhere. They have not been approved so it is not possible for them to be enforced. That Facebook page post probably has been up for some time now. Nothing new there. It was posted on 15th Sept. I have to go to immigration next week and will ask them direct I hope it isn't yet in force as my friend still hasn't got off his arse and sorted out his overstay ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertty Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 How very Thai. We are made to sign a piece of paper stating we agree to the new rules that are not in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Many immigration offices post this mesaage and even force people to sign a statement they are aware of these new rules. But currently the new rules have not been aproved yet as far as i know and thus are not into force, but can become so any day now. ( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkey Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Anybody know if these rules are now in place? Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 They have not been approved yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cacruden Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 ^ They have not been approved yet, but I thought the immigration officials had wide discretion and could blacklist you on pretty much any grounds if they saw fit? Many countries (including US and Canada) can refuse entry which would block further entry until/unless you chose to appeal it to the immigration department higher up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 The laws and rules of Thailand are not necessarily identical to those of "many countries (including the US and Canada)", and vice-versa. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martouf Posted September 29, 2014 Author Share Posted September 29, 2014 They have not been approved yet. I agree with Ubonjoe that the rules have not been approved however today at Nong Khai immigration when I went to get my 12 month extension I asked what the position was re the bans and the boss said "not in place yet but if overstay more than 90 days you must leave by the airport and not the bridge" !! He then pointed to his new filing cabinet draw marked blacklisted Whether or not they actually do I don't know but I'm just relaying what he said..... And I was with a Thai teacher that is his friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkey Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Thanks guys Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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