Redshirt region to remain under martial law

[GinBoy2]

As soon as it could be made 100% sure that Thailand would forever be freed from the actions of the violent red shirts, I'm sure an vast majority of Thais would ask for the ML to be lifted. Maybe you with your red comrade friends here could positively contribute to the creation of such a safe situation, was it just by what you write on TV for a start. But when I read your: 'The threats are always rather vague and mysterious', I, alas, guess there will long be no floods in Thailand anymore by the time that can happen. As there was nothing vague or mysterious about the violences of 2009/2010 and of 2013/2014, that's all the point, but, very sadly, never ever IMO will you and the other, present and future, members of the propaganda brigade have the will nor the ability to admit it! And that's dramatic, for the red shirts' movement (which could, should play an important, peacefull, role in creating the future of this country, wthout the Shins and consorts), and for Thailand (by the absence of, any, truly 'democratic' organisation for the citizens to express their personal opinions through in politics).

you do know which group has been the most violent and killed the most people in Thailand, don't you?

Tip: color is neither red, nor yellow.

Well said, If martial law is so effective in diminishing protest, violence and bloodshed, I look forward to a safer South

the south will be safe once the military gets their airship up and running (again)

Continuation of ML has little or nothing to do with the suppression of violence, and everything to do with the expression of thought and speech. It kinda sounds better, less George Orwell/China/North Korean, if you cloak it in the guise of suppressing violence.

In fact the areas where ML is being maintained have never experienced the so called violence that ML is supposed to suppress!

As my old Mom used to tell me "sticks and stones can break your bones, but words can never hurt you". Many around here would be wise to heed those words

[halloween]

you do know which group has been the most violent and killed the most people in Thailand, don't you?

Tip: color is neither red, nor yellow.

That could either be the Thai Army as the fought off Burmese and Khmer invasions (appreciated at the time) or the Japanese with their WWII railway project (not so much). But respect has to be given to the bloody amateurs (not that the reds don't get paid) for their efforts in a relatively short time span, though many would respect them more if their goals were a lot less mercenary and more for the benefit of the nation. I suppose its hard to be altruistic when a corrupt billionaire is waving a (relatively) big wad of notes under your nose.

Try a bit more recent than the second world war, around the 70's. I'm surprised you're not aware of the history of those you so fervently support.

Now that is funny. While I am aware of the RTA's history, I answered the question as asked, while you would like to select a time period before your little mates were bought into existence, and which makes the relative term "most" irrelevant. Why don't we try the 3 months before the coup? That would be not only interesting, it would be current and include all parties (except the Japanese, of course).

[djjamie]

...

and what effect has it had on you ? I'll answer for you - zero

and what negative effect has it had on the general population of Thailand ? I'll answer for you - Zero

...

a. "travel insurance policies exclude cover following a military coup or the imposition of martial law, and your insurance may be invalid."

b. read this article Hotels and shops plead for end to martial law (THE NATION August 12, 2014 1:00 am)

Completely agree, up to a point.

Usually the imposition of martial law, or the usurping of power by the military, would invoke an exclusion clause in ones policy – all bets are off so to speak. But what happened in Thailand was a bit different. The aim of the army was to restore peace and order. So a lot of insurance companies have not changed their policies. They continue to cover you as normal. Remember though, even before martial law was imposed one would not be covered for anything that happened to you if you went and sought out the protests and got involved. That still applies. So unless you go up to a soldier and poke him in the eye then one needn't have any fears at all.

And for those that still are a bit trepidatious the Junta have proactively sought out an agreement through TOT to have a local insurance company cover those that feel a Thailand holiday would not be complete without poking a soldier in the eye.

Edited September 9, 2014 by djjamie

[whybother]

Continuation of ML has little or nothing to do with the suppression of violence, and everything to do with the expression of thought and speech. It kinda sounds better, less George Orwell/China/North Korean, if you cloak it in the guise of suppressing violence.

In fact the areas where ML is being maintained have never experienced the so called violence that ML is supposed to suppress!

As my old Mom used to tell me "sticks and stones can break your bones, but words can never hurt you". Many around here would be wise to heed those words

There seems to be a few less grenades going off in Bangkok, where ML is being maintained.

[halloween]

I'll make the analogy simpler, so that you might understand it.

Bill didn't appoint Hilary to do anything. True. The people appointed her, and she later became Secretary of State - having used her hubby's name to get famous, she passed this final and important test.

Thaksin didn't appoint Yingluck to do anything. True, The people appointed her - having used her big bro's name to get famous, she passed this final and important test.

Prayuth did appoint Preecha to the NLA. The people weren't asked.

In the last line you appear to concede that Prayuth appointing his kid bro to the NLA was wrong. Thank you for that. And he was appointed - how in heavens name else would he have got there?

While we are discussing appointed positions, how about we take a long look at Thida and how she came to be top dog at UDD, the supposed voice of the red movement. Just how democratic is the UDD, despite its name? Just how representative is it of the views of the people it purports to represent compared to those of the man who funds it?

[GinBoy2]

Continuation of ML has little or nothing to do with the suppression of violence, and everything to do with the expression of thought and speech. It kinda sounds better, less George Orwell/China/North Korean, if you cloak it in the guise of suppressing violence.

In fact the areas where ML is being maintained have never experienced the so called violence that ML is supposed to suppress!

As my old Mom used to tell me "sticks and stones can break your bones, but words can never hurt you". Many around here would be wise to heed those words

There seems to be a few less grenades going off in Bangkok, where ML is being maintained.

So assume you are perfectly in agreement that ML should be rescinded across the North and NE, and simply maintained in Bangkok then?

[Ricardo]

Continuation of ML has little or nothing to do with the suppression of violence, and everything to do with the expression of thought and speech. It kinda sounds better, less George Orwell/China/North Korean, if you cloak it in the guise of suppressing violence.

In fact the areas where ML is being maintained have never experienced the so called violence that ML is supposed to suppress!

As my old Mom used to tell me "sticks and stones can break your bones, but words can never hurt you". Many around here would be wise to heed those words

"the areas where ML is being maintained have never experienced the so called violence that ML is supposed to suppress!"

Just to point out that Chiang Mai certainly has seen political-violence in the past, but not since Ml was imposed.

I can't speak for other areas.

[rickirs]

The Thai People live in interesting times where laws are not laws, where the Constitution seems more a figment of imagination. Is it a surprise that people are conflicted? Case in point is the martial law.

His Majesty the King on July 22nd endorsed the Provisional Constitution (PC) of the Kingdom of Thailand B.E. 2557 (2014), making it effective immediately. Article 4 of the PC recognizes “human dignity, rights, liberties and equality” of the Thai People. This is similar to the 2007 Constitution in Article 26 that states that in exercising powers of all State authorities, regard shall be had to human dignity, rights and liberties in accordance with the provisions of this Constitution. Notice that “equality” has now been added.

Further, under Article 29 the provisions of Article 4 shall not be intended to apply to any particular case or person. Unjust discrimination against a person on the grounds of the difference in origin, race, language, sex, age, disability, physical or health condition, personal status, economic or social standing, religious belief, education or constitutionally political view, shall not be permitted.

Up to this point the PC seems to be a very progressive and democratic constitution.

So it would seem that under the PC, NCPO's continuation of martial law would be unconstitutional after July 22, 2014, no matter whether it is applied broadly (ie., to the entire State) or selectively (ie., in the Northern region, a province, a city, a person). One might have thought that contemporaneous with the enactment of the CP, NCPO would immediately void martial law. This would be consistent with a roadmap to re-establish of a democratic-based society that has been NCPO’s stated goal.

But NCPO didn’t void martial law.

Section 44 of the PC empowers the NCPO leader to issue any order "for the sake of the reforms in any field, the promotion of love and harmony amongst the people in the nation, or the prevention, abatement or suppression of any act detrimental to national order or security, royal throne, national economy or public administration, whether the act occurs inside or outside the kingdom". The orders so issued are all deemed "lawful, constitutional and final."

Section 47–48 legitimizes all coup related actions done by the NCPO, by its subordinates or by the subordinates of its subordinates, as well as all orders and announcements issued by them.

When Article 44 is coupled with Articles 19-20 (formation of the NLA and cabinet), 42, 47, and 48 the unelected NCPO would seem able to legally circumvent Article 4 without accountability or appeal. NCPO’s answer to criticisms of its absolute control over human rights, civil liberties, and equality is “Trust the NCPO.” That's okay, the Thai People are entitled to trust the NCPO, but no one should pretend that the PC heralds any kind of emerging democracy in Thailand and this does not bode well for the future Permanent Constitution under the current structure of governance. The NCPO will in effect perpetuate the very conflict for which it seeks to remove.

[rubl]

No need to check. I just refer to Wiki which state that " PPP claimed absolute majority of the 480 seats".

Ahbisit elected by a coerced coalition of parties. One of this coalition revealed the intimidation factor in electing AV, Hardly a people choice and that was fully exposed when "PT won a majority with 265 seats". Again a qoute from Wiki.

Intimidation is how the yellow lot work. Close to the textbook definition of fascism.

"intimidation"? Surely something the red-shirts (who are actual part of the topic) would never ever do.

Not those peaceful red-shirts and they equally peaceful UDD leadership. At least not in the red world it would seem

[Thanet]

I'll make the analogy simpler, so that you might understand it.

Bill didn't appoint Hilary to do anything. True. The people appointed her, and she later became Secretary of State - having used her hubby's name to get famous, she passed this final and important test.

Thaksin didn't appoint Yingluck to do anything. True, The people appointed her - having used her big bro's name to get famous, she passed this final and important test.

Prayuth did appoint Preecha to the NLA. The people weren't asked.

In the last line you appear to concede that Prayuth appointing his kid bro to the NLA was wrong. Thank you for that. And he was appointed - how in heavens name else would he have got there?

Yingluck was appointed #1 on the PTP party list ticket. Thaksin could have appointed his proverbial "telephone post", and it would have been elected.

Preecha was appointed, but was he appointed by Prayuth?

edit: The people didn't appoint Hillary to anything. She stood for presidential election. She failed. Obama appointed her secretary of state.

Now you are starting to sound ridiculous.

Do you really, seriously, and with a straight face, believe that Prayuth didn't appoint Preecha to the NLA? You really are beyond belief!

Please answer the following two questions:

1. Who is thee head of the NLA?

2. Who is the head of the NCPO, that controls the NLA?

3. Who ended his first meeting with the NLA with the question "Who doesn't agree with me?"

**** Off topic comments removed ****

Edited September 9, 2014 by metisdead

[Thanet]

No need to check. I just refer to Wiki which state that " PPP claimed absolute majority of the 480 seats".

Ahbisit elected by a coerced coalition of parties. One of this coalition revealed the intimidation factor in electing AV, Hardly a people choice and that was fully exposed when "PT won a majority with 265 seats". Again a qoute from Wiki.

Intimidation is how the yellow lot work. Close to the textbook definition of fascism.

"intimidation"? Surely something the red-shirts (who are actual part of the topic) would never ever do.

Not those peaceful red-shirts and they equally peaceful UDD leadership. At least not in the red world it would seem

Study some definitions of fascism and get back to me on which side has more similarities. The yellows correspond in many ways. The reds correspond more to revolutionary socialists. And you know the old saying (credited to the Late Margaret Thatcher) "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money".

Neither side is a good outcome for Thailand, but at least a democracy allowed the citizenry to grow tired of the red lot and kick them out. And you of all people should know where fascism eventually leads.

Not so with the yellow lot.

[whybother]

Now you are starting to sound ridiculous.

Do you really, seriously, and with a straight face, believe that Prayuth didn't appoint Preecha to the NLA? You really are beyond belief!

Please answer the following two questions:

1. Who is thee head of the NLA?

2. Who is the head of the NCPO, that controls the NLA?

3. Who ended his first meeting with the NLA with the question "Who doesn't agree with me?"

**** Off topic comments removed ****

Actually, I've been referring to Preecha being commander of the 3rd region army. I hadn't read the caption under the photo, and the article doesn't refer to him as being an NLA member.

[halloween]

Study some definitions of fascism and get back to me on which side has more similarities. The yellows correspond in many ways. The reds correspond more to revolutionary socialists. And you know the old saying (credited to the Late Margaret Thatcher) "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money".

Neither side is a good outcome for Thailand, but at least a democracy allowed the citizenry to grow tired of the red lot and kick them out. And you of all people should know where fascism eventually leads.

Not so with the yellow lot.

While you are playing with your definitions, cast your mind back to instances where charismatic leaders have organised armed militias as a wing of their political party, to oppress,intimidate, disrupt and attack any opposition, and what that has led to. Not here though, the military won't play that game.

While you are at it, you might like to come up with those who have opposed and/or criticised Thaksin and escaped WITHOUT some form of retribution. I'm sure there are some, but not many.

[sweatalot]

hi peeps, come back to the topic "redshirt region to remain under martial law ..."

what has that to do with hillary clinton, with history, with the "yellows" , with Abhisit, Suthep, ....with military governments of the past", with... with... ??

the reds gotcha into their trap leading you away from

the necessity of the ML because the reds are what they are

(its said in my post #107)

[Thanet]

Now you are starting to sound ridiculous.

Do you really, seriously, and with a straight face, believe that Prayuth didn't appoint Preecha to the NLA? You really are beyond belief!

Please answer the following two questions:

1. Who is thee head of the NLA?

2. Who is the head of the NCPO, that controls the NLA?

3. Who ended his first meeting with the NLA with the question "Who doesn't agree with me?"

**** Off topic comments removed ****

Actually, I've been referring to Preecha being commander of the 3rd region army. I hadn't read the caption under the photo, and the article doesn't refer to him as being an NLA member.

OMG! How many more times. Check it out, why don't you? In addition to being in the Army, Preecha most definitely IS an NLA member.

How do you think he got there?

[whybother]

Actually, I've been referring to Preecha being commander of the 3rd region army. I hadn't read the caption under the photo, and the article doesn't refer to him as being an NLA member.

OMG! How many more times. Check it out, why don't you? In addition to being in the Army, Preecha most definitely IS an NLA member.

How do you think he got there?

RELAX. I didn't say he wasn't an NLA member. I said that I hadn't read the caption that he was. I had been referring to him being the commander because I didn't realise he was an NLA member.

[Thanet]

Actually, I've been referring to Preecha being commander of the 3rd region army. I hadn't read the caption under the photo, and the article doesn't refer to him as being an NLA member.

OMG! How many more times. Check it out, why don't you? In addition to being in the Army, Preecha most definitely IS an NLA member.

How do you think he got there?

RELAX. I didn't say he wasn't an NLA member. I said that I hadn't read the caption that he was. I had been referring to him being the commander because I didn't realise he was an NLA member.

I'm perfectly relaxed, albeit very amused, thank you.

Now please tell me how you think he got selected to join the NLA? I'll tell you. His big bro put him there coz his big bro is the boss of the NLA and the NCPO. Can you (reasonably) imagine that any other mechanism was at play here? Just a coincidence, perhaps?

It's funny how the you yellow lot harp on so much about the gross injustice of Thaksin's little sis being given a leg up, but not Prayuth's little bro (or Bill Clinton's squeeze) enjoying the same privilege, don't you think?

[whybother]

I'm perfectly relaxed, albeit very amused, thank you.

Now please tell me how you think he got selected to join the NLA? I'll tell you. His big bro put him there coz his big bro is the boss of the NLA and the NCPO. Can you (reasonably) imagine that any other mechanism was at play here? Just a coincidence, perhaps?

It's funny how the you yellow lot harp on so much about the gross injustice of Thaksin's little sis being given a leg up, but not Prayuth's little bro (or Bill Clinton's squeeze) enjoying the same privilege, don't you think?

<deleted>. I haven't said anything about him NOT being appointed to the NLA.

[Thanet]

I'm perfectly relaxed, albeit very amused, thank you.

Now please tell me how you think he got selected to join the NLA? I'll tell you. His big bro put him there coz his big bro is the boss of the NLA and the NCPO. Can you (reasonably) imagine that any other mechanism was at play here? Just a coincidence, perhaps?

It's funny how the you yellow lot harp on so much about the gross injustice of Thaksin's little sis being given a leg up, but not Prayuth's little bro (or Bill Clinton's squeeze) enjoying the same privilege, don't you think?

<deleted>. I haven't said anything about him NOT being appointed to the NLA.

But you did concede that Preecha being appointed to the NLA by virtue of his big brother was wrong.

[jaidam]

I'm perfectly relaxed, albeit very amused, thank you.

Now please tell me how you think he got selected to join the NLA? I'll tell you. His big bro put him there coz his big bro is the boss of the NLA and the NCPO. Can you (reasonably) imagine that any other mechanism was at play here? Just a coincidence, perhaps?

It's funny how the you yellow lot harp on so much about the gross injustice of Thaksin's little sis being given a leg up, but not Prayuth's little bro (or Bill Clinton's squeeze) enjoying the same privilege, don't you think?

<deleted>. I haven't said anything about him NOT being appointed to the NLA.

But you did concede that Preecha being appointed to the NLA by virtue of his big brother was wrong.

Your stance on this matter is confusing. As somebody that considered only a Shinawatra suitable for every top governmental position, for now and eternity, as well as top positions in police force and army, I would have expected you to be overwhelmed with joy at the thought of more Chan-Ochas joining the government. What is the matter? Right idea, wrong family?

[halloween]

You really haven't got a clue have you? You mention the Thai army fighting off the Burmese and Khmer invasions - now correct me if I'm wrong but my apparent "little mates" (can you not partake in a discussion without reverting to childhood) weren't around then either, 16th -19th Centuries for Siam/Burma wars. Khmer Invasion? Wasn't it the other way round? You offer these events as examples of Thai Army Involvement yet ignore more recent examples.

Anyway, let's talk 20th and 21st Century. Even the wildest exaggerations (plenty of examples regularly posted on here) of the number of people killed during the "War on Drugs" does not compare with the number killed, and the manner in which they were killed, in Phattalung province. If you really knew your history (or did not blank certain parts out) you would be aware of that.

No matter how you try and deflect the question was and remains "which group has been the most violent and killed the most people" so the term "most" is anything but irrelevant.

And you don't seem to understand how stupid it is to say an 80yo eats more than an obese teenager because he has been around 4 times as long. Who has been the most violent in the last 8 months? or to put it another, whose violence has most recently affected the thai people to the extent that a majority are sick of it?

[mikemac]

You really haven't got a clue have you? You mention the Thai army fighting off the Burmese and Khmer invasions - now correct me if I'm wrong but my apparent "little mates" (can you not partake in a discussion without reverting to childhood) weren't around then either, 16th -19th Centuries for Siam/Burma wars. Khmer Invasion? Wasn't it the other way round? You offer these events as examples of Thai Army Involvement yet ignore more recent examples.

Anyway, let's talk 20th and 21st Century. Even the wildest exaggerations (plenty of examples regularly posted on here) of the number of people killed during the "War on Drugs" does not compare with the number killed, and the manner in which they were killed, in Phattalung province. If you really knew your history (or did not blank certain parts out) you would be aware of that.

No matter how you try and deflect the question was and remains "which group has been the most violent and killed the most people" so the term "most" is anything but irrelevant.

And you don't seem to understand how stupid it is to say an 80yo eats more than an obese teenager because he has been around 4 times as long. Who has been the most violent in the last 8 months? or to put it another, whose violence has most recently affected the thai people to the extent that a majority are sick of it?

Don't blame the junta for continuing ML in the danger areas.

I cannot help but think the only people who are opposed to the ML are the ones who are pro violence, because since ML has been in place the red killings, bombs, grenades etc seem to have stopped.

So who is "inconvenienced" by ML ? Very few people are, but the farang agitators on this forum, who should not even be posting anti-junta propaganda, seem to making a big deal out of it. Or the terror merchants and killers in the "redshirt region".

Compared to the cloak and dagger stuff that was going on before, I think the country is much better off under Military rule, and minus the Shin influence.

( Don't be suckered, halloween, he will lead you down that "off-topic" path then leave you there, and then later he will accuse you of being off-topic yourself. )

Edited September 9, 2014 by mikemac

[metisdead]

Off topic post and replies have been removed. One post has been edited to remove the off topic deflection comments that others were concentrating on.

[rubl]

Intimidation is how the yellow lot work. Close to the textbook definition of fascism.

"intimidation"? Surely something the red-shirts (who are actual part of the topic) would never ever do.

Not those peaceful red-shirts and they equally peaceful UDD leadership. At least not in the red world it would seem

Study some definitions of fascism and get back to me on which side has more similarities. The yellows correspond in many ways. The reds correspond more to revolutionary socialists. And you know the old saying (credited to the Late Margaret Thatcher) "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money".

Neither side is a good outcome for Thailand, but at least a democracy allowed the citizenry to grow tired of the red lot and kick them out. And you of all people should know where fascism eventually leads.

Not so with the yellow lot.

Well, your 'revolutionary socialists' seem close to the real reds a century ago. Real nice people they were, almost as nice as the other lot you mention.

"Neither side, but at least the democracy ... ..."

Well, there wasn't much democracy to start with and having a supposedly democratic government condoning violence because it was aimed against those pesky anti-government protesters, doesn't really fit too well in the concept of democracy. Except for the chaps who couldn't care less as long as it's against the 'yellows' it would seem. 'red violence good, yellow violence bad'.

Happy reconciliation, my dear chap.

[Fat Haggis]

Maybe the reason the grenade attacks have stopped as there's nobody on the streets to throw at these days?

If you think that ML has stopped the extremists in their tracks, you're very naive, there's complete freedom of movement from Chiang Mai to Bangkok, you can drive a vehicle all the way and not get stopped once... that is'nt effective control measures. Stopping and searching EVERY SINGLE VEHICLE from a bus to the shyt sucker truck is effective control.

There are still dozens, if no hundreds of red shirt extremist nutjobs out there, and there's also still plenty of weaponry too.. there's still a long long way to go to eliminate them.
That type of extremist doesn't give up his cause, short term they will go back to their old ways of living, and life, long term, unless you capture them or kill them, they're always going to remain a threat to society.

I'm sure I read on TVF a thread, that the reason to keep martial law was more to do with the fact that there's elements within the RTA that are wearing Red t-shirts under their uniforms and there's a genuine concern over the so called "water melon soldiers". The RTA simply doesn't have the manpower to enforce Martial Law to the full extent, and you would have to question the loyalty of these water melon soldiers to enforce it to the max, in their own local areas. I doubt the RTA would be able to cope if there were mass desertions within these "red areas" if they had to start enforcing ML.

[AleG]

Maybe the reason the grenade attacks have stopped as there's nobody on the streets to throw at these days?

If you think that ML has stopped the extremists in their tracks, you're very naive, there's complete freedom of movement from Chiang Mai to Bangkok, you can drive a vehicle all the way and not get stopped once... that is'nt effective control measures. Stopping and searching EVERY SINGLE VEHICLE from a bus to the shyt sucker truck is effective control.

There are still dozens, if no hundreds of red shirt extremist nutjobs out there, and there's also still plenty of weaponry too.. there's still a long long way to go to eliminate them.

That type of extremist doesn't give up his cause, short term they will go back to their old ways of living, and life, long term, unless you capture them or kill them, they're always going to remain a threat to society.

I'm sure I read on TVF a thread, that the reason to keep martial law was more to do with the fact that there's elements within the RTA that are wearing Red t-shirts under their uniforms and there's a genuine concern over the so called "water melon soldiers". The RTA simply doesn't have the manpower to enforce Martial Law to the full extent, and you would have to question the loyalty of these water melon soldiers to enforce it to the max, in their own local areas. I doubt the RTA would be able to cope if there were mass desertions within these "red areas" if they had to start enforcing ML.

Maybe the reason the grenade attacks have stopped as there's nobody on the streets to throw at these days?

That would be a valid argument if the grenade (and gun) attacks had been limited to protesters on the streets, they were not. The houses of people vocal against PTP and independent agencies that had them under investigaton were a regular target.

I would say that Red Shirt terrorist are a fair bit less likely to go shooting at people now that they know the police (to say nothing of the army) will not look the other way.

[Fat Haggis]

I agree with you to a point Alex, although I don't recall any fatalities or injuries of the attacks that were carried out on the homes of various people, they were more of an intimidation tactic, than a kill/maim one.

You're also pretty much spot on about the Police too, however, there still needs to be checkpoints stopping and searching, and random spot checks on ALL parts of the vehicles, it's amazing the places you can hide assault rifles if they're broken down far enough, I could put most of an M4 in a tool box and it would not be noticed to the untrained eye.

[mikemac]

Maybe the reason the grenade attacks have stopped as there's nobody on the streets to throw at these days?

If you think that ML has stopped the extremists in their tracks, you're very naive, there's complete freedom of movement from Chiang Mai to Bangkok, you can drive a vehicle all the way and not get stopped once... that is'nt effective control measures. Stopping and searching EVERY SINGLE VEHICLE from a bus to the shyt sucker truck is effective control.

There are still dozens, if no hundreds of red shirt extremist nutjobs out there, and there's also still plenty of weaponry too.. there's still a long long way to go to eliminate them.

That type of extremist doesn't give up his cause, short term they will go back to their old ways of living, and life, long term, unless you capture them or kill them, they're always going to remain a threat to society.

I'm sure I read on TVF a thread, that the reason to keep martial law was more to do with the fact that there's elements within the RTA that are wearing Red t-shirts under their uniforms and there's a genuine concern over the so called "water melon soldiers". The RTA simply doesn't have the manpower to enforce Martial Law to the full extent, and you would have to question the loyalty of these water melon soldiers to enforce it to the max, in their own local areas. I doubt the RTA would be able to cope if there were mass desertions within these "red areas" if they had to start enforcing ML.

Maybe the reason the grenade attacks have stopped as there's nobody on the streets to throw at these days?

That would be a valid argument if the grenade (and gun) attacks had been limited to protesters on the streets, they were not. The houses of people vocal against PTP and independent agencies that had them under investigaton were a regular target.

I would say that Red Shirt terrorist are a fair bit less likely to go shooting at people now that they know the police (to say nothing of the army) will not look the other way.

I think even a blind village idiot can see that the only reason the Thai Rouge were openly operating their campaign of terror when the PTP were in power was because they were guaranteed free rein to do as they wished, or what their desert paymaster told them to do. They had no fear of the police because the cops were told what to do by Thaksin.

Enter the RTA and exit the criminal government, different rules now and the brave and fearless reds return to their nests and survive by living on past adventures, and dobbing their mates in when busted with guns, grenades etc.

What AleG said was right about the paid thugs not only attacking protesters but also other anti-government citizens.

There was a case in Chiang Mai where the father of an anti-government protestor was dragged from his car and murdered in cold blood by these red killers. I cannot remember the exact details but a regular red poster (troll) tried to tell us the murderer/s were not associated with the reds but in fact, as usual, this was not the case.

Perhaps fabby can post a link to this story/thread for me, he seems to be good at that.

[Fat Haggis]

Mike, I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but please, lets not forget that there were also several highlighted incidents that involved the "armed guards" of the PDRC conducting their very own violence..

There's no excuse from either side, catch those ones responsible from both sides and put them behind bars, it's that simple.

[JAG]

Since Martial Law pretty well gives the Army carte Blanche to do what it likes to who it likes, and since the Army now govern Thailand, I doubt whether Martial Law will be lifted in any area which may contain any potential opposition.