Denial of Marriage Extension without Children?

[yankee99]

Interesting as pattaya doesnt even approve or deny this type of extension. all the paperwork is sent off to bkk for the visa which normally takes 30 days.

[ubonjoe]

Interesting as pattaya doesnt even approve or deny this type of extension. all the paperwork is sent off to bkk for the visa which normally takes 30 days.

In order for final approval to be done by the division headquarters the application has to be accepted and be given local approval.

In this reported case they would not even accept the application.

[nfoboy]

There is no rule you must have a child to apply for an extension of stay based upon marriage to Thai.

One officer cannot deny your application you can ask to talk to supervisor.

Bangkok immigration would not do the extension unless living there. It could be a route to file a complaint is all.

So, could not go to Chaeng Wattana to complete? Then back to trying to figure out the best way to correct the official.

[nfoboy]

Well, that's me screwed and I'm sure many more like me.

Short of having the 'snip' reversed (and the missus with her tubes untied) then lots of bedroom exercise, we might as well move to another country if we can't get the next extension.

But we have only been married for 15 years, so 'grandfathering' should be introduced into this equation?

OP, would suggest that your friends contact Bkk immigration and let them know what is being said in Pattaya. That will clear any misunderstanding.

Absolutely ridiculous thread.

My wife will be calling to enquire about any new rule changes at Pattaya, and then BKK if required. The sticking part is, even if you get the correct answer from one official, going back and seeing the person that told you no before, could lead to possible face issues that I can't quite comprehend. That's why I was asking for the way around this particular official.

[ubonjoe]

There have been no rule changes. That would require a new immigration order being done and that has not happened since the one that went into effect on August 29th and there were no changes made to clause 2.18 for extensions based upon marriage.

[KhnomKhnom]

This is not hearsay.

My friend was told Today (Tuesday 21 October, 2014), since he and his wife have no common law children together, (and his wife went to the Office and spoke to one of the officers at the Immigration Office and was told the same thing). (not sure what I can say about specifics for id'ing people) that no marriage extension is possible.

Also, the other friends I have, were told the same thing a few weeks ago, (I just found out today), but since he met the requirements for retirement visa (enough in the bank) he just did a retirement extension.

So please, if you are just going to say this is BS, no need to respond. I am looking for well-informed replies that can help my friend to get around this current obstacle, as it is really getting him to think about leaving Thailand, and I don't think he really wants to do that.

Are you yourself not tired of HEARSAY messages on TV ??

If YOU are really "the friend" then fess up and readers can try to give credence based on something happening to a real person who has direct eye witness testimony to offer.

Otherwise, this is bar stool jawing.

[KhnomKhnom]

If a message says, "a friend told me," skip to next message.

If a message says, "I saw with my own eyes," pay attention.

[shaggy28303]

Buddy , all marriage extensions go through Bangkok. That's why it takes 30days to process. I am on my 4th extension and have no children. You are required to file where you live and that office is required to forward your packet to the Bangkok office. If the Pattaya office is denying you the extension process due to no children I would ask for the supervisor, get their name and info for the denial, and then travel to Bangkok to complete your process. I finished mine this month and nothing about no children came up.

I hope this helps

[ubonjoe]

Buddy , all marriage extensions go through Bangkok. <snip>

Unless your are referring to Pattaya only that is not correct. The extensions are approved at the division headquarters for the region of the country where you live. For Pattaya that is division 3 that is responsible for the central region..

[brianb1944]

I got a hard time re Marriage extension from CM, after gettin 3 previously with no problems. (Got the wrong officer). I switched to retirement, and went to an agent, now i spend 15 minutes a year at immigration.

[maccraw]

Extension based on marriage application presented at Jomtien goes to Bangkok for approval or otherwise

Jomtien mich prefers retirement extensions--maybe to do with fees?.

Some years I had a problem with them saying that my application might not be ok--no reason given--we have son. I asked that they forward the application to Bangkok anyway--they did --but Bangkok rejected--I can only surmise because of of comment from Jomtien. I had to go to Bangkok to sort it out but eventually got the extension. We had been getting marriage extensions for

many previous years.In Bangkok they made me get a new pension letter from the Embassy.

Interestingly the officer in Bankok who asked me to show income evidence would not accept that there are 52 weeks in a year-- her view was that there are 12 months and each month has 4 weeks--so my calculation of annual amount UK weekly pension was wrong.No kidding.

[dotpoom]

"My friend was told Today (Tuesday 21 October, 2014), since he and his wife have no common law children together,"

I understood the term "common law children" referred to children born OUT of wedlock?

[NeverSure]

This is not hearsay.

My friend was told Today

-snip-

Sir, that is the textbook exhibit "A" of hearsay.

[Pattaya46]

Not sure what your mates were told but they are wrong.

(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or must have no less than Baht 400,000 in a bank account in Thailand for the past two months to cover expenses for one year.

Hi. That is true Lite Beer, but that should not mask the fact that you need a lot of more than "just been married" and "money" to get this extension.

I am *not* concerned by this visa, but I heard many "couples" complaining that it's more and more difficult to get this extension at Jomtien.

I never heard of "a child" though, but clearly they want proof that you live together, not just "married", and it's become a serious problem for some guys who work/go abroad by periods...

[dieseldave1951]

ok so what happens if you marry a lady that is to old to have kids, and i don't want also.

we dont all marry females that are youger than our daughter or sons

This is not hearsay.

My friend was told Today (Tuesday 21 October, 2014), since he and his wife have no common law children together, (and his wife went to the Office and spoke to one of the officers at the Immigration Office and was told the same thing). (not sure what I can say about specifics for id'ing people) that no marriage extension is possible.

Also, the other friends I have, were told the same thing a few weeks ago, (I just found out today), but since he met the requirements for retirement visa (enough in the bank) he just did a retirement extension.

So please, if you are just going to say this is BS, no need to respond. I am looking for well-informed replies that can help my friend to get around this current obstacle, as it is really getting him to think about leaving Thailand, and I don't think he really wants to do that.

[nfoboy]

This is not hearsay.

My friend was told Today

-snip-

Sir, that is the textbook exhibit "A" of hearsay.

hear·say

ˈhirˌsā/

noun

1. information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate; rumor.

   "according to hearsay, Bob had managed to break his arm"

   synonyms: rumor, gossip, tittle-tattle, idle talk; More

   Since I actually spoke to my friend and his wife, and asked questions relevant to the situation, I wouldn't classify it as hearsay. If I were to go with your definition, then any report on Thaivisa about something bad happening because an official was mis-abusing their power, would be hearsay until it happened to me specifically (or video/audio proof or multiple, multiple reports). But as that has happened to me, I now have been "adequately substantiated" (and believe that they are now "reports" and not hearsay), and have come to understand that maybe, just maybe, things happen that shouldn't here, and getting them resolved by official channels can very much go against the grain. So I started this post looking for people who might have had either the same or similar happen to them, and possible ways to resolve. I haven't had to deal with this particular refusal type before, so I couldn't come up with something from my own experience. If it had been something related to wrong paperwork, or problematic documentation, I could have given him direct advice.

   'Tis amazing how many people want to jump on board to complain that "this just can't be happening" or "it's just idle bar talk", when I know for a fact that even stranger things have happened to others.

   As for myself:

   I could never be pulled over for having all the correct paperwork displayed on my vehicle, and appropriate documentation, and be asked to pay a fine, could I?

   Or have a dispute over property lines and have the municipal office come and tell my wife and I we had to allow people to park on our property, because that was just the way it was supposed to be, and why wasn't my wife siding with the other Thai in this case instead of the Farang?

   Or have people stop to give witness between an accident between myself and Thai Lady, to cast that I had been speeding down the small road, and the lady was just minding her own business.. (who weren't even there, one guy showed up from the other direction 7 minutes after it had occured!)?

   Or yada yada... again those are all hearsay to anyone who reads them... unless you were there, right?

   So please, if you just want to complain this is BS, is there any way to keep it to yourself?

   For those that have replied with actionable suggestions, thanks.

[dieseldave1951]

if you down load the forrms for proof of pension it clearly states weekly amounts

i sent this to the UK embassy and had no problems so far

this officer obviously does not know that there are 52 week in a year not 48 no wonder Thailands 543 years ahead

Extension based on marriage application presented at Jomtien goes to Bangkok for approval or otherwise

Jomtien mich prefers retirement extensions--maybe to do with fees?.

Some years I had a problem with them saying that my application might not be ok--no reason given--we have son. I asked that they forward the application to Bangkok anyway--they did --but Bangkok rejected--I can only surmise because of of comment from Jomtien. I had to go to Bangkok to sort it out but eventually got the extension. We had been getting marriage extensions for

many previous years.In Bangkok they made me get a new pension letter from the Embassy.

Interestingly the officer in Bankok who asked me to show income evidence would not accept that there are 52 weeks in a year-- her view was that there are 12 months and each month has 4 weeks--so my calculation of annual amount UK weekly pension was wrong.No kidding.

[duanebigsby]

OP, are you sure your "friends" haven't just been stringing you along so you'd go on TV and look like an idiot?

[Time Traveller]

There have been no rule changes. That would require a new immigration order being done and that has not happened since the one that went into effect on August 29th and there were no changes made to clause 2.18 for extensions based upon marriage.

You don't get it, do you?. Immigration officers can refuse you for any reason they like. Rules or regulation don't mean anything in Thailand.

The reality is if you can't produce a document they ask for then yes they can and do refuse extensions.

I'm not saying what the OP said is true - although it could be - but I have seen people refused simply because of their appearance. Nothing to do with whether they qualify according to the rules.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Time Traveller

[ubonjoe]

There have been no rule changes. That would require a new immigration order being done and that has not happened since the one that went into effect on August 29th and there were no changes made to clause 2.18 for extensions based upon marriage.

You don't get it, do you?. Immigration officers can refuse you for any reason they like. Rules or regulation don't mean anything in Thailand.

The reality is if you can't produce a document they ask for then yes they can and do refuse extensions.

I'm not saying what the OP said is true - although it could be - but I have seen people refused simply because of their appearance. Nothing to do with whether they qualify according to the rules.

They can ask for additional documents and such but they cannot refuse an application that is within the rules.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

If your name is on the birth certificate as the father, then you are the father. There certainly are cases where no father is listed on the birth certificate, usually the result of personal problems between the parents.

This just isn't true, there is nearly always a man's name put on the certificate.

Most Amphur offices will not agree to issue a BC without it.

(normally the girls use an uncle or even their father on the BC)

[SOMeTOM]

The reality is if you can't produce a document they ask for then yes they can and do refuse extensions.

The reality is if you can't produce a document they ask for then yes they can and do refuse extensions.

[DrTuner]

Just walk to Jomthien and ask. It's always the same officer behind the desk.

99.999% says it's a misunderstanding. Last two times we've been asked for our sons birth certificate, but it's just a supporting document. First time we didn't have it with us, they still stamped the pile of papers through to BKK.

[joe84330]

Udon immigration said they wouldn't process my extension just a few days ago because the amphur in Samui spelled my middle name wrong on one of my kids birth certificates. She said we'd have to fly to Samui to have it corrected.

Note that I have 3 kids born here to a Thai mother and that the spelling error is only on one birth certificate.

Went to the amphur in udon and the big boss couldn't figure out why immigration was refusing to process my extension. Ultimately paid 3,000thb for the uniformed stooges in udon to correct the error that the stooges in Samui made.

"Because Thailand"

[paz]

Went to the amphur in udon and the big boss couldn't figure out why immigration was refusing to process my extension. Ultimately paid 3,000thb for the uniformed stooges in udon to correct the error that the stooges in Samui made.

You have been extorted or have bribed. At the amphoe corrections are free or 20 Baht.

Edited October 22, 2014 by paz

[paz]

The reality is if you can't produce a document they ask for then yes they can and do refuse extensions.

No, only when the documents are lacking or incorrect.

[nithisa78]

Since you are not willing to accept my answer, whatch this thread for more "well-informed" replies that will teach you how either your friends completely misunderstood, or didn't provide a correct, complete paperwork.

Peace, you are correct.They will find out.

I know of office where all these immigration issues don't exist. No I would not breathe one word of it. The crazies would mess it up.

If there is anything we're not clear on, the best resource. The tourist police. Except for the first time I was at this location, gave everyone working 100 baht.

Since then, they refuse to take any money. Send pizza, send KFC, don't tell and they still know who did it.

We get what we give in life. No more, no less. We're al in the same boat.

[phil2]

There's no child(ren) requirement, but if you're both of child bearing age and you've been married for a number of years without an offspring, then it simply means that your marriage was arranged just for the purpose of getting your yearly visa. I was told that in Suan Phlu when I was doing my third extension. The officer asked my ex if she was just helping me with my visa, if she had someone else, and why we hadn't had any kids, because she answered no to the other questions. We were encouraged to have kids, or I'd be denied a visa the following year.

[paz]

There's no child(ren) requirement, but if you're both of child bearing age and you've been married for a number of years without an offspring, then it simply means that your marriage was arranged just for the purpose of getting your yearly visa. I was told that in Suan Phlu when I was doing my third extension. The officer asked my ex if she was just helping me with my visa, if she had someone else, and why we hadn't had any kids, because she answered no to the other questions. We were encouraged to have kids, or I'd be denied a visa the following year.

I would like to see the face of such an immigration officer when presented with a medical certificate of infertility. Or would they promptly push forward an orphanage information sheet ?

These "encouragements" are shameful and would not last one minute when properly challenged.

The verification of "de facto" marriage is stringent enough, pointing the "well intentioned" officer to the pictures and witness required should be enough to have them back off from such intimidation.

Unfortunately before blaming the foreigner that is naturally disadvantaged, a lot of the responsibility goes to the Thai spouse that because of culture or sheer ignorance, accepts to be vexated by the authorities in any and all situation.

Edited October 22, 2014 by paz

[SOMeTOM]

Whoever truly care about children, will never have any.

It's stunning the high consideration of immigration towards a marriage and the sentiments of two persons, maybe that arise from the greed they have in almost every action they do, "farming" kids so they can produce wealth for them and only them later in life....