Helping solve the water crisis in Thailand

[sipi]

Perhaps you could consider a trip to The Kings Garden at Chiang Mai. I haven't been there for years, but I do recall a lovely water conservation agricultural setup sponsored by His Majesty.

[lvr181]

You only need to convince Thai people that it is "their idea" not yours, in order to progress. Good luck with that!

[joeyg]

I thought having them think it was their idea would be the easy part...

[maidee]

limit whatever subsidy to 1 crop per year

stockpile of rice , solved

water shortage, solved

[joeyg]

limit whatever subsidy to 1 crop per year

stockpile of rice , solved

water shortage, solved

Are you Thai?

[lvr181]

I thought having them think it was their idea would be the easy part...

If only it was so easy Maybe need a smart, educated and convinced Thai alongside to get the message across?

[Lunchbob]

There are many Thai agricultural institutions teaching permaculture, natural farming, etc... It has different names: new theory, subsistence farming, etc...all are basically the same. Most of the programs are free and even offer free assistance digging ponds, seeds, microbes, and so on. One of the problems with people getting involved is money. Everyone is desperate to make as much as possible. People aren't working together, property disputes, etc...same old story.

[sipi]

I actually thought "water harvesting" was well and truly alive in Bangkok, and some other Thai metro areas. Next time you take the elevator to the highest point in town, look around. Those silver tanks perched on the roofs of high-rise buildings, aren't they water tanks? And they normally have green things beside them called gardens. And now, compare that to a typical high-rise scene from, well, Sydney, or London, where the only thing you see perched on top of high-rises are air conditioning hardware and communication transmission towers.

[Thongkorn]

Drink beer instead of water?

great idea, it takes approximately 8 pts to make one pint of beer.

[Thongkorn]

I know what to do, let's hold a carwash with the benefits to go towards solving the water crisis!

Dont let the Eastern Europeans see this , they may get the wrong Idea about benefits.

[kannot]

As a start I would suggest to dig and create a small lake in your land although I don't know how big your land is, then you can start thinking how to help Thailand and I doubt if anyone listens to your ideas.

You are not living in Southern California any more.

I dug a 1 rai 8 metre deep lake and also 2x 80 metre boreholes...................locals????????

[joeyg]

I met a very interesting lady a couple of days ago while scouting coconut flour syrup for a friend's business. She is a microbiologist and worked here in Thailand for Unilever for many years in some sort of food quality division. She has a business that makes products from Coconut flower nectar.

We had a very interesting conversation along the lines we've been talking here. She is already involved in teaching composting and soil conservation. She does regular lecturing and teaching at some of the local universities.

She was very nice. Quite unpretentious and very excited to be talking about the biochemistry of soil.

ya never know...

[kannot]

I met a very interesting lady a couple of days ago while scouting coconut flour syrup for a friend's business. She is a microbiologist and worked here in Thailand for Unilever for many years in some sort of food quality division. She has a business that makes products from Coconut flower nectar.

We had a very interesting conversation along the lines we've been talking here. She is already involved in teaching composting and soil conservation. She does regular lecturing and teaching at some of the local universities.

She was very nice. Quite unpretentious and very excited to be talking about the biochemistry of soil.

ya never know...

Theres some great and smart people in Thailand.totally thwarted by some moron at the top with the IQ of a peanut.

[lvr181]

I met a very interesting lady a couple of days ago while scouting coconut flour syrup for a friend's business. She is a microbiologist and worked here in Thailand for Unilever for many years in some sort of food quality division. She has a business that makes products from Coconut flower nectar.

We had a very interesting conversation along the lines we've been talking here. She is already involved in teaching composting and soil conservation. She does regular lecturing and teaching at some of the local universities.

She was very nice. Quite unpretentious and very excited to be talking about the biochemistry of soil.

ya never know...

Theres some great and smart people in Thailand.totally thwarted by some moron at the top with the IQ of a peanut.

I would suspect that the "moron" you refer to has a reasonable IQ, but the IQ is not being used to forward the economic and educational well being of the Thai peoples in a way that farangs believe should happen. Unfortunately

[joeyg]

I met a very interesting lady a couple of days ago while scouting coconut flour syrup for a friend's business. She is a microbiologist and worked here in Thailand for Unilever for many years in some sort of food quality division. She has a business that makes products from Coconut flower nectar.

We had a very interesting conversation along the lines we've been talking here. She is already involved in teaching composting and soil conservation. She does regular lecturing and teaching at some of the local universities.

She was very nice. Quite unpretentious and very excited to be talking about the biochemistry of soil.

ya never know...

Theres some great and smart people in Thailand.totally thwarted by some moron at the top with the IQ of a peanut.

I would suspect that the "moron" you refer to has a reasonable IQ, but the IQ is not being used to forward the economic and educational well being of the Thai peoples in a way that farangs believe should happen. Unfortunately

I think all governments are the same. They screw the people as much as possible. To the point of desperation. There are a few exceptions where the people are thriving. Some places in Scandinavia perhaps but it's rare. I think it takes a fair amount of intelligence to keep screwing and bankrupting people over and over again.

Of course the people being ignorant sheep, at least in the USA and well most of the world makes it like "taking candy from a baby" for the crooks...

[manhood]

Well i understand your intention: but i learned its the best way to forget to teach thais anything voluntarily!!!!!!!!

either you work for a company and do that job for money but step away to think you can help them as they not want your help at first as they know all about their problems and thai know always the best way for solutions:

At the end they know nothing!

Sorry to say that but i also tried as beeing very much involved into NGO work in many counries in this world! But just forget about Thailand!

[bina]

hi to the OP.

my duaghter and her partner are jsut now finishing a year and half project in san diego thru the leigchtag foundation about food, community etc.... ; would have been fun for them to meet you...

as for water>..hahahhahah... thousands of thai workers work for five years in israel in fields or hothouses with some of the most advanced water saving equipment and projects, and yet most dont bother to learn about it, they just work it. a know a few that went back to their issaan fields and implemented what they learned but shortly after, brothers/sisters went in to the fileds and messed with the irrigation pipes, or stole the generators for the water pumps or diregarded water flow and well.. you get the picture.

even here, i have to argue with my husband about water usage: we are a 'green' kibbutz and water conservation and organic/chemical free gardening is promoted; he takes our car weekly to wash it off down where the thai workers live and the kibbutz members wont see him. he is convinced we have plenty of water because it just rained finally in november, for mor ethen a few hours.

however if u are in thailand now:

Israel Agro-technologies Business Delegation to Thailand” on 19-20 November, 2014 will showcase innovative agro-technology solutions that have reached breakthrough achievements in irrigation, seeds, greenhouses, fertilizers, crop-protection, post-harvest treatment, electro-optics, consulting and engineering services, and many more.

For more information and registration, please visit the Economic and Trade Department, the Embassy of Israel. http://bit.ly/1v5yvHKIsrael Agro-technologies Business Delegation to Thailand” on 19-20 November, 2014 will showcase innovative agro-technology solutions that have reached breakthrough achievements in irrigation, seeds, greenhouses, fertilizers, crop-protection, post-harvest treatment, electro-optics, consulting and engineering services, and many more.

For more information and registration, please visit the Economic and Trade Department, the Embassy of Israel. http://bit.ly/1v5yvHK

i put this in as this might interest you... obviously its business oriented, but certainly u can link up with poeple that know people that have projects that might interest you... and there are some. they are probably NOT organic oriented, but there might be someone there that is... im not involved anymore in agriculture here so cant really help with that, but there are folks that are doing 'green' projects, water managment that fits the issaan small farmer (who is reliant only on rainfall as most cannot afford a water pump if their water source is too far away or drying up. not too mention the rice fields being dried up for salt in udon thani... i suggest to also go to the farming forum and search back, lots of discussion on water/irrigation among the more 'professional' farmers in the forum...

remember who the farmers are in thailand: or small subsistence /monoculture farms based on family often but not always poor/or in debt from previous years poor crop outcome, or large industrialized farms. thais often go with the more is better when farming (its hard to convince them that enough water comes out of a drip system since they cannot see th ewater coming out. hubby loves watering manually in spite of the computerized water system we have in the kibbutz community garden. he will stand and water for half an hour in the height of the day in the sun, cause he feels the veggies are not getting enough water. but it is psychological. the plants are doing nicely and production is good.

good luck to you.

[Gracas]

Farmers and growers here have no water management's clue in their body, for them, water is abundant

and should be free to use and grow 3 crops of rice a year and sell it to the government for a profit,

here there is no tomorrow, there is only today, will cross that bridge with no water when we get to it...

If you can figure out how to educate those clueless people and restore water supply to all year around

they will make a god out of you here and build a statues in your honor...

Issan would start to look like Easter Island.

[MJP]

We've got a combination of mains water, rainwater harvesting and soakaways directly under the Thai jars to recharge the unconfined aquifer and a borehole and still only have an adequate supply half the year.

It's become a nightmare.

[MRYANG]

There is no water "scarcity" problem in Thailand.

Yes, in dry parts of the world (Hot countries without vegetation, Cold area mountains, all places not close to coast), there has and will ALWAYS be a problem - but go figure - hot, deserted land far from coast without any vegetation you are asking for trouble in the same way as you are asking for trouble if you go climbing Mount Everest without oxygen tubes. But still the planet consist of about 53.8000km3 of water which is more than enough for even triple the world population and more. If used effectively.

So firstly, we have to put a perspective to this problem in Thailand. If you live alone in Thailand without an agricultural or industrial business you will NEVER have a water problem. Why? Firstly, it cost 1B/L, whilst petrol is 42B/L. (Yet, many consume more petrol volume than water/person/day). Secondly just dig down a 2m3 barrel and fill it with rain water. Then get a couple of water purifiers (19USD/piece, enough for about 2m3) and you will never be short of water for the rest of your entire life. Estimate the size of your barrel / cistern of the amount you need between the longest rain periods.

(By the way, the best water filter there is - is the Sun. Any polluted water + Sun = Clean water. You can basically build a very cheap water cleaner without anything more than stuff from a home depot for 10 bucks or less.)

If you have a business the problem is indeed larger - mainly because of the need of constant water continuity paired with the large capacity. This is a logistics problem in the same way as getting enough of tables for a big dinner. With planning this will never become a big issue.

But there is no water "scarcity" problem in Thailand. Pair it with the downward population trend in Thailand and there will never be in the foreseeable future.

**********************************************************

Water POLLUTION is a much larger problem.

So is Air pollution.

So is the general waste overall.

Consumption of unnecessary things. So forth.

**********************************************************

OFF TOPIC:

I have never understood the idea of drilling wells in Africa. Put the people close to the coast. Build a desalination machine running on solar power. A medium effective desalination plant uses about 5-7kWh/m3 or 5-7Wh/L. A 1 m3 solar panel can give you about 100W, which means that one solar panel can provide energy efficient to desalinate 20L/h on average.

Or make your own desalination equipment:

http://water.usgs.gov/edu/graphics//desalination-solar-still.gif

[lvr181]

There is no water "scarcity" problem in Thailand.

Yes, in dry parts of the world (Hot countries without vegetation, Cold area mountains, all places not close to coast), there has and will ALWAYS be a problem - but go figure - hot, deserted land far from coast without any vegetation you are asking for trouble in the same way as you are asking for trouble if you go climbing Mount Everest without oxygen tubes. But still the planet consist of about 53.8000km3 of water which is more than enough for even triple the world population and more. If used effectively.

So firstly, we have to put a perspective to this problem in Thailand. If you live alone in Thailand without an agricultural or industrial business you will NEVER have a water problem. Why? Firstly, it cost 1B/L, whilst petrol is 42B/L. (Yet, many consume more petrol volume than water/person/day). Secondly just dig down a 2m3 barrel and fill it with rain water. Then get a couple of water purifiers (19USD/piece, enough for about 2m3) and you will never be short of water for the rest of your entire life. Estimate the size of your barrel / cistern of the amount you need between the longest rain periods.

(By the way, the best water filter there is - is the Sun. Any polluted water + Sun = Clean water. You can basically build a very cheap water cleaner without anything more than stuff from a home depot for 10 bucks or less.)

If you have a business the problem is indeed larger - mainly because of the need of constant water continuity paired with the large capacity. This is a logistics problem in the same way as getting enough of tables for a big dinner. With planning this will never become a big issue.

But there is no water "scarcity" problem in Thailand. Pair it with the downward population trend in Thailand and there will never be in the foreseeable future.

**********************************************************

Water POLLUTION is a much larger problem.

So is Air pollution.

So is the general waste overall.

Consumption of unnecessary things. So forth.

**********************************************************

OFF TOPIC:

I have never understood the idea of drilling wells in Africa. Put the people close to the coast. Build a desalination machine running on solar power. A medium effective desalination plant uses about 5-7kWh/m3 or 5-7Wh/L. A 1 m3 solar panel can give you about 100W, which means that one solar panel can provide energy efficient to desalinate 20L/h on average.

Or make your own desalination equipment:

http://water.usgs.gov/edu/graphics//desalination-solar-still.gif

Interesting comments. Scarcity of water where and when it is needed and could be best used, is a problem, along with water pollution.

Shifting people to coastal areas is a very simplistic approach to a more complex problem.

BTW, I do not have the answer, because there are many solutions for various problem areas. One sized hat does not fit all heads.

[joeyg]

There is no water "scarcity" problem in Thailand.

Yes, in dry parts of the world (Hot countries without vegetation, Cold area mountains, all places not close to coast), there has and will ALWAYS be a problem - but go figure - hot, deserted land far from coast without any vegetation you are asking for trouble in the same way as you are asking for trouble if you go climbing Mount Everest without oxygen tubes. But still the planet consist of about 53.8000km3 of water which is more than enough for even triple the world population and more. If used effectively.

So firstly, we have to put a perspective to this problem in Thailand. If you live alone in Thailand without an agricultural or industrial business you will NEVER have a water problem. Why? Firstly, it cost 1B/L, whilst petrol is 42B/L. (Yet, many consume more petrol volume than water/person/day). Secondly just dig down a 2m3 barrel and fill it with rain water. Then get a couple of water purifiers (19USD/piece, enough for about 2m3) and you will never be short of water for the rest of your entire life. Estimate the size of your barrel / cistern of the amount you need between the longest rain periods.

(By the way, the best water filter there is - is the Sun. Any polluted water + Sun = Clean water. You can basically build a very cheap water cleaner without anything more than stuff from a home depot for 10 bucks or less.)

If you have a business the problem is indeed larger - mainly because of the need of constant water continuity paired with the large capacity. This is a logistics problem in the same way as getting enough of tables for a big dinner. With planning this will never become a big issue.

But there is no water "scarcity" problem in Thailand. Pair it with the downward population trend in Thailand and there will never be in the foreseeable future.

**********************************************************

Water POLLUTION is a much larger problem.

So is Air pollution.

So is the general waste overall.

Consumption of unnecessary things. So forth.

**********************************************************

OFF TOPIC:

I have never understood the idea of drilling wells in Africa. Put the people close to the coast. Build a desalination machine running on solar power. A medium effective desalination plant uses about 5-7kWh/m3 or 5-7Wh/L. A 1 m3 solar panel can give you about 100W, which means that one solar panel can provide energy efficient to desalinate 20L/h on average.

Or make your own desalination equipment:

http://water.usgs.gov/edu/graphics//desalination-solar-still.gif

Interesting comments. Scarcity of water where and when it is needed and could be best used, is a problem, along with water pollution.

Shifting people to coastal areas is a very simplistic approach to a more complex problem.

BTW, I do not have the answer, because there are many solutions for various problem areas. One sized hat does not fit all heads.

Great input and food for thought. Thanks man...

[Daniel Boon]

before digging 'a lake', find out the evaporation rate in your area / Thailand (in Queensland at Wivenhoe Dam its 1.74 metres a year)

I have an interest in water ... it (the water) is the foundation of calculating the carrying capacity of a tract of land; therefore, I disagree with most of what MRYANG, on 18 Nov 2014 - 15:05, said ...

Winenhoe Dam was built for flood mitigation rather than consumption (if it wasn't there, Brisbane would have dried up some time ago) as I said, the evaporation rate was 1.74 metres a year (when I last researched it, it will have gone up) .... the dam is a collection point for a wide spread area, and why this is relevant is ... for every 1 mm of rain on 1 square metre of roof / land is 1 litre of water.

So unless your lake had feeder sources (off the roofs of buildings), then the volume you collect you can work out with the formula I provided ... then if you could find out the evaporation rate of the region you are in (as well as rainfall statistics) you would quickly realize that a lake might never become a lake, more just a hole in the ground ... and we haven't even discussed the holding capacity of the soil (where water will naturally sink below the bottom of the 'lake hole' to the water table below.

The Sun is Not a water cleanser, it actually facilitates the growth of microorganisms that contaminate and pollute the water ... let me put it another way; it is the dry land microorganisms that feed off the wet microorganisms, as the water passes through the soil, that filters the water ... imagine micro lions hunting down micro game from your shower water ..

Most people are unaware or willfully ignorant that IT is all interconnected ... the water in your ice cube, that makes your beer, grows your food, becomes milk, is all recycled water that has passed through the genitalia and arse of every species from monkey to microbe, lizard to lady-boy, dog to dinosaur shit, vomit and so on ... there is not one more litre of water today that there was 3+ billion years ago ...

[Cylon]

Phuket,100 days without rain last dry season.Then over 2000 mm of rain falls in the wet season.A 10 x 10 meter roof can catch 200,000 Ltr in the wet season.Instead it washes away the hillsides and floods the streets. They dont get it.

[Daniel Boon]

So, Cylon, they need to calculate a deeming rate per person and then store that water for the long dry; problematic of course, who pays for the tanks, where will they be placed; in OZ (now) industrial complexes are required to have large storage tanks under ground to capture water that would have been soaked up ... this can be used in the complex (but not for drinking - dickheads) while Winenhoe has phosphates, contaminants, pesticides, bodies, heavy metal wastes etc that sits in a big container (dam) which is then dumped with chlorine etc and deemed drinkable

[MRYANG]

I'm open minded to new facts, but when there is none, it's rather hard to argument.

1. Rainwater is normally healthy to drink without any dangerous microorganisms. The reason for this is that microorganism growth in water is MUCH slower than actual dissipation or sun-water evaporation. If you collect the rainwater underground and keep it below 10 degrees celsius it will take several weeks (maybe months) before the water gets unhealthy to drink. But by using sun dissipation again makes it close to a zero risk. We are actually talking about two different things here. It's like saying that driving in city is dangerous because we get tired of long exposure of driving (+6 weeks) but we are not talking about this amounts of time. A MUCH larger problem is chemicals in the water. This is from natural pollution that comes from over production, non-existing environmental policies in effect of our society and large scale industries without any visible regulations on how to deal with the obvious.

2. We can't talk about Brisbane when this clearly is a Thai-water-problem-discussion. If you want to talk about Australia, then start a new thread, but possibly in another forum.

3. You haven't further explained what your disagreement is about. Number 1 and 2 is not valid as you argue facts with non evidencials that you have no clue about or misunderstood altogether.

To exemplify the "water problem" in Thailand we can use the data from CIA-WFB:

Total renewable water resources: 438.6 km3 (as of 2011)

Freshwater withdrawal: 57.31 km3 (as of 2011) where 5% is domestic use (personal) 5% is industrial use and 90% is agricultural use.

Here we can clearly see that water is enough in volume because only 13% of the total water in circulation is actually used.

But again - the water problem in Thailand is NOT a volume problem per see but of POLLUTED (Bad quality) water. How do we solve THAT?

a) Change food from Rice to Potatoes (Potato is SUPERIOR rice as food in ANY comparison you can make for example is uses 1/4th of the water with 6 times fibers and vitamins. In fact one can survive ONLY on potato as food but with rice it would be very difficult)

Use synthetic fibers instead of cotton - synthetic fibers are superior cotton in any comparison you can make. For example, they are more durable, dries faster, keeps warm longer, uses MUCH less water in production so forth.)

c) Manufacture LESS cars (which is an EXTREMELY environmentally inefficient product) but rather use sun-powered electrical trains on maglev rails that goes in different sizes of "circles" based on the total distance. For example one circle of a train does the Bangkok-Pattaya circle but inside Pattaya there are 8 smaller circles covering the city. For the short distances that is left you either walk or take an electric monowheeler.

d) Use clean energy such as sun- and water-energy

e) Avoid ANY chemicals including pills (which is VERY dangerous to us)

f) Reuse plastics as much as we can and avoid water bottles

...but we all know this is NOT going to happen until it's actually too late.

Ps. For point a) and I argue that the byproducts leave chemical trails in the industry following it on a much higher level than compared product.

[Daniel Boon]

G'day MrYang, it's not so much 'new facts' but understanding our ignorance / limited knowledge of the synergistic movement of water around the world; what we see (of fresh water) is representative of less than 1% of the total volume of water on the planet ...

1. when you talk about rainwater being healthy to drink, I am sure you would quantify that statement by adding 'dependent on the water source, that it has not passed over and now includes the lighter particulates of pollutants (including heavy metal contaminated water) ... then you could say that drinking it as it falls into your mouth would be the 'purest' water; however, as soon as it goes into any container (jar, bucket, water-tank, catchment area dam, then the degree of purity diminishes proportionally to the size of the container .... it could be safe to argue that aquifers have the purest water, due to the filtration through soil, sand and the likes of sandstone rocks ... many suggest that these waters are thousands on years 'old', yet the microorganism balance is such that the water is healthy to drink.

Whilst I see the comparative analogy you make with driving; however, data from Germany showed that 92% of all fatalities occurred in built up areas (city), whereas only 8% were on the no-speed-restrictions auto bans ... but in the pure water and driving comparatives, the known unknowns is humans (as you suggest, chemicals we know about and ones that are suppressed)

2. Why don't you supply comparative data for Thailand, rather than tell me to start a new thread; is it because you don't know, don't care or don't know how to research it?

3. you have not articulated anything in this jumble of words

then you talk of 'exemplifying' using CIA data???

Look, I don't agree with your hypothesis based on data that is at least 3 years old; the water problem - for Thailand (as well as every other place on Earth) - is not just the pollution, its where it falls as opposed to where its needed and the rainfall volumes are growing however the duration (of the rainfall) is reducing, hence the problematic issues of storage ...

a) the Irish can tell you a thing or two about survival on potatoes

'synthetic fibers' made from what exactly? petro-chemicals?

'sun powered' electric trains? have you any idea of the grid required to power an electric train?

One has to understand two simple formula; ERoEI (energy return on energy invested) and ROI (return on investment) ...the embodied energy in any product dictates its effectiveness as well as its cost ... example; it's no good buying 10 Rai of land, planting crops and selling them at a loss ...

As to growing rice (in Thailand) ... happens from July through to December/January = 6 months for a crop that thrives in water

As to growing potatoes ... for an optimum yield, its about 5+ months; however, oxygen is essential for healthy root growth, and insufficient oxygen in soils over time causes cell, root and eventually plant death ... and waterlogged fields would not be beneficial to crop yields

[joeyg]

Just got back from a week in Yasothon. Rice had just been harvested and it was dry as a bone up there. My buddies family has one well doing OK. We priced out putting in another one. Complete system about 20 meters deep just under 100,000 bhat.

the well driller who had been drilling for 15 years up there said it was getting harder and harder to hit good water...

[Kudel]

Just got back from a week in Yasothon. Rice had just been harvested and it was dry as a bone up there. My buddies family has one well doing OK. We priced out putting in another one. Complete system about 20 meters deep just under 100,000 bhat.

the well driller who had been drilling for 15 years up there said it was getting harder and harder to hit good water...

And in 2012 my ex father in law had a water well supplied and funded by the local goverment for free to water his rice fields in Buriram......i think youve been had old boy.

[joeyg]

Just got back from a week in Yasothon. Rice had just been harvested and it was dry as a bone up there. My buddies family has one well doing OK. We priced out putting in another one. Complete system about 20 meters deep just under 100,000 bhat.

the well driller who had been drilling for 15 years up there said it was getting harder and harder to hit good water...

And in 2012 my ex father in law had a water well supplied and funded by the local goverment for free to water his rice fields in Buriram......i think youve been had old boy.

Actually the original well was installed by government subsidy. We were discussing drilling a second but no money exchanged hands so we definitely were not "had." be great if the government would pay for a second but the we don't know yet if tat's going to happen.