Chonburi Court decides British children future

[kennypowers]

I don't see any winners in a broken home.

Absolutely. I still feel for the mother, regardless of her wrong doing.

[ExPratt]

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He's a fool to return here and risk his kids , no matter how "Honorable" he thinks he is

There is a little blue "read more" link in the OP, I think only a fool would comment without reading the full article!
By the way he won.

I read the full article and I still think he took an unnecessary risk with his kids. He wasn't told of the decision in Thailand before he arrived so he could have lost them.Child custody hearings hear are notoriously unpredictable, So perhaps you need to think before-you start larging it in future

[finnomick]

My best wishes to Rob and his family. Great result!

Exactly my thoughts too ( I hadn't read the girls were safe yet ). The court should make the mother pay maintenance for the girls when they eventually deal with her abduction charges

[Equalizer]

I am not too sure about the specific reason the judges found in his favour ''the judges made it clear to her that the case would be decided based on the opinions and wants of the children'' children are by all accounts children and children's personal adolescent preferences should not be the issue. The simple facts are that this woman broke the law, abducted the girls and went on the run for 2 months. I can understand the wants of the children and it is clear the social services in the UK have made it clear the children's wants are covered. The children's opinions should have no bearing. Well done sir.

[Alwyn]

He's a fool to return here and risk his kids , no matter how "Honorable" he thinks he is

You should have read the OP my friend, you would have rad that he won "In what is almost a landmark decision, The Chonburi court has given FULL custody to Mr. Day for both girls, affording the mother an annual visitation provided that she pay for the travel costs and that the girls WISH to visit."

[ExPratt]

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He's a fool to return here and risk his kids , no matter how "Honorable" he thinks he is

You should have read the OP my friend, you would have rad that he won "In what is almost a landmark decision, The Chonburi court has given FULL custody to Mr. Day for both girls, affording the mother an annual visitation provided that she pay for the travel costs and that the girls WISH to visit."

Yes but if they say it is a landmark case then it shows how much of a risk he took bringing them back

Its not that much of a landmark case imo, I have sole custody of my 2 Kids here

[joebrown]

On the face of it this does seem a good outcome despite the obvious break up of the original family unit. It isn't often I write in praise of the UK Embassy, but it appears they played an important part in the 'communication' process, so it's kudos to them as well, (no matter how much it might have cost for their services).

[Alwyn]

The courts are very well centred when it comes to protection of the children. I have two close friends, both English, who have been given total custody of their children from Thai partners. One of then, much the same as this story, had his two boys kidnapped by the "mother" (he had already been awarded custody). When he traveled to her province and village the police threatened to kill him etc. So he went with some friends from BKK who are "high" police. And he took the kid straight back with these kind chaps a acting as armed security. The local plod ran a mile when he had these guys with him. They did not ask for one baht for their time and help and all is now well and episode over (this was back in 2005). If the courts know the mother is a wrong 'un, they will generally go with the Farang as long as parenthood is registered etc

[Alwyn]

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He's a fool to return here and risk his kids , no matter how "Honorable" he thinks he is

You should have read the OP my friend, you would have rad that he won "In what is almost a landmark decision, The Chonburi court has given FULL custody to Mr. Day for both girls, affording the mother an annual visitation provided that she pay for the travel costs and that the girls WISH to visit."

Yes but if they say it is a landmark case then it shows how much of a risk he took bringing them back

Its not that much of a landmark case imo, I have sole custody of my 2 Kids here

Agreed. I just posted about my two friends who also have sole custody, so not so landmark really.

[ExPratt]

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The courts are very well centred when it comes to protection of the children. I have two close friends, both English, who have been given total custody of their children from Thai partners. One of then, much the same as this story, had his two boys kidnapped by the "mother" (he had already been awarded custody). When he traveled to her province and village the police threatened to kill him etc. So he went with some friends from BKK who are "high" police. And he took the kid straight back with these kind chaps a acting as armed security. The local plod ran a mile when he had these guys with him. They did not ask for one baht for their time and help and all is now well and episode over (this was back in 2005). If the courts know the mother is a wrong 'un, they will generally go with the Farang as long as parenthood is registered etc

Its not an easy process and basically in the end its the kids word they take , which I found a bit stressful for the kids as they were only 8 and 9 at the time. If I had been through what this fella has been through I would not worry about Thai custody once I had them in the UK however small the risk

[Alwyn]

I am not too sure about the specific reason the judges found in his favour ''the judges made it clear to her that the case would be decided based on the opinions and wants of the children'' children are by all accounts children and children's personal adolescent preferences should not be the issue. The simple facts are that this woman broke the law, abducted the girls and went on the run for 2 months. I can understand the wants of the children and it is clear the social services in the UK have made it clear the children's wants are covered. The children's opinions should have no bearing. Well done sir.

How bizarre. I was adopted by my "dad" (I only ever knew him as my dad as he married my mum when I was 3 or something) because of passport issues. When I went to the adoption court the judge was quite clear in asking me what I wanted and if I was happy etc - I was 10 years old at that time. He also asked my opinions regarding the set up at home and so on. He seemed to be more interested in hearing from me than anything else. As you say though, well done sir! He did the right thing, the right way and will not have any need to worry about the courts from now on. Now all we need is that foul looking bitch to be locked up for a few years.

[DamienG]

Congratulations to the dad & kids, hope they have a great life together.

[bheard]

What has the Mother's husband to say for himself.....would he have liked another man to be an accomplice in the abduction of his children?

I agree. The Norwegian boyfriend must be guilty of conspiracy to abduct, if there is such a thing. Weird that he would want to be involved in such a thing.......assuming he knew what was going on.

Let's face it, he may have been totally ignorant of the true nature of what was going on - the mother would have told him a completely upside down story.

That said, what were the girls telling him when they were getting about 'under the radar'?

Anyway, Congrats to the girl's father, he DID GOOD!

[wilcopops]

It's not a hallmark decision - the court in Thailand usually find in favour of the man.

[kango59]

its so strange , the justice in the courts here is fair, to both sides, which does go against the grain, with thai people ime sure, i have been in the same position.

you feel that once your up and commence has started, there wont be justice.

but like mr day, if you keep your faith in the system that deal with the lives of young children, not the hate that suddenly happens between adults, when you split. then its an even contest.

the beauty of those girls , with there father shows ,--- people who deal with these most difficult decisions, do it every day, they have seen and heard most of the wobbly stuff that goes, . and are ready, to determine where the children are better placed.

well done children, you have ended up where you wanted to be. not easy being so young.

[Thomas Hannah]

I am somewhat undecided if he is a fool or not. All in the case speaks for him. Getting this settled by a Thai court would seal the case once and for all. Wonder however if he could have achieved same in a British court, with somewhat clearer rules.

He already had custody,Not the same as british courts.In England,She and her new husband, would be in jail now ,Look at the costs to the Father.To get custody for the second time,

[Tony125]

I may see this differently from everyone else, but the joy shown here for the mothers suffering is, in my honest opinion, a bit over the top.

When a family is split there are no winners, there is no joy or happiness for all. No matter what the circumstances the children have, for a great part of the year, lost a parent.

The emotions and stress for all is immense and has a devastating effect on everyone involved, I have known some previously reasonable and responsible people do some incredibly stupid things. We all react differently and where our children are involved all bets are off with anything possible. Am I condoning her actions? definitely not as she broke the law and will hopefully pay for it, not only that but I hope a precedent is set that will discourage others from doing the same.

At the end of the day the father has behaved impeccably, yes he took a great chance but he has been fully vindicated. Not only that but he has shown his children that he will put them first, no matter what the cost to himself.

The most important aspect to all of this unfortunate story is that the children got what they wanted Nothing else should matter, the first and only consideration should be the well being and future of the children involved!

The right result seems to have been reached but please, as we are basing all of these comments on a few newspaper articles, spare some charitable thought for the mother, she might not be the evil vindictive witch that some of you imagine her to be!

Sorry but most don't have a charitable thought for her that know the whole story. She abandoned him and the kids years ago because of a serious drug problem. He went to a Thai court and was given full custody of the children with a sugestion (from the Thai court) that she have no visitation rights. He has been raising them in GB for years but decided to be nice and bring them back to visit their mom at which point she took off with the kids. Some suggested she was looking for a big payday to retun them but too much publicity cuased her to be found by police and returned to him.

Here is vid when they were returned, you can see that the girls are overjoyed to be back with their dad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swuhhDGrAo8

[ChrisY1]

I doubt they'll overturn it but as mentioned it can be traumatic for the kids. We had to go inside the Udon Thani Juvenile prison as that is where the child services are in Udon. I wouldn't risk it , you never know what they'll do

What are you waffling on about?

The case is settled...........it's over and Dad has custody.........read more!!!

[Bignose]

I'll pay that one...

[Bignose]

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I may see this differently from everyone else, but the joy shown here for the mothers suffering is, in my honest opinion, a bit over the top.

When a family is split there are no winners, there is no joy or happiness for all. No matter what the circumstances the children have, for a great part of the year, lost a parent.

The emotions and stress for all is immense and has a devastating effect on everyone involved, I have known some previously reasonable and responsible people do some incredibly stupid things. We all react differently and where our children are involved all bets are off with anything possible. Am I condoning her actions? definitely not as she broke the law and will hopefully pay for it, not only that but I hope a precedent is set that will discourage others from doing the same.

At the end of the day the father has behaved impeccably, yes he took a great chance but he has been fully vindicated. Not only that but he has shown his children that he will put them first, no matter what the cost to himself.

The most important aspect to all of this unfortunate story is that the children got what they wanted Nothing else should matter, the first and only consideration should be the well being and future of the children involved!

The right result seems to have been reached but please, as we are basing all of these comments on a few newspaper articles, spare some charitable thought for the mother, she might not be the evil vindictive witch that some of you imagine her to be!

Sorry but most don't have a charitable thought for her that know the whole story. She abandoned him and the kids years ago because of a serious drug problem. He went to a Thai court and was given full custody of the children with a sugestion (from the Thai court) that she have no visitation rights. He has been raising them in GB for years but decided to be nice and bring them back to visit their mom at which point she took off with the kids. Some suggested she was looking for a big payday to retun them but too much publicity cuased her to be found by police and returned to him.

Here is vid when they were returned, you can see that the girls are overjoyed to be back with their dad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swuhhDGrAo8

I'll pay that one...

[paymaster]

I don't see any winners in a broken home.

The only win from a broken home is the peace and harmony, and all that that entails, in the escape from the acrimony that comes from staying in a malevolent environment. Please don't be too judgemental on the personal breakdowns that are common in human relationships.

[cookee68]

I am somewhat undecided if he is a fool or not. All in the case speaks for him. Getting this settled by a Thai court would seal the case once and for all. Wonder however if he could have achieved same in a British court, with somewhat clearer rules.

I am sure I read somewhere, that he was originally given custody of the children, by the Thai courts, so why another court case, and even if the Thai courts did decide in favour for the mother, it would make no difference as they are in the UK, and have British citizenship.

[Ulic]

He's a fool to return here and risk his kids , no matter how "Honorable" he thinks he is

There is a little blue "read more" link in the OP, I think only a fool would comment without reading the full article!

By the way he won.

I read the full article and still think he is a fool to return. She took the kids and ran once and if ever given the chance

will probably do it again. He already had been awarded full custody of the children. Next time she may never return the kids.

I hope her new husband was also charged with kidnapping.

[Basil B]

"In what is almost a landmark decision, The Chonburi court has given FULL custody to Mr. Day for both girls, affording the mother an annual visitation provided that she pay for the travel costs and that the girls WISH to visit."

I probably would have never returned to Thailand (as long as the children agreed). He is darn lucky he got a more than fair decision from a Thailand court. The mother totally screwed herself because now she may never see then again and if she does it's only because the children request it and she must pay for the cost. I'm wondering how willing the children will be to go back for a visit after what the mother did.

I would not call it "more than fair", it was fair and proves there is fair justice in Thailand.

Common seance, and if the mother can raise the funds and the children so wish they should visit her, though I do not know how the courts could enforce this...

Had the mother not been so stupid I would have also been saying it would be right and proper for her to be able to get a UK visit visa to visit her children for a few days every year, and I do hope that if the children so wish the could phone, write and/or email their mother.

[GTI68]

It is a happy but sad story.

One can only imagine a mothers love.

But to put a dedicated father in a desperate situation only lends one to wonder what her and the piece of Sh@t Norwegian "boyfriend / husband" were really intending for these girls future.

Edited November 18, 2014 by GTI68

[Chris Lawrence]

Incredibly sad for all involved.

The fact that the children are divided by many miles of travel makes also difficult.

A lot of people are quick to make judgement on the actions of the parents involved, but doubt they have ever walked a mile in their shoes. The press presents a case like this in a manner that sells papers. They take sides.

I don't know who is to blame or what the real circumstances are, but I do believe that the children need both biological parents. The children also need that reassurance that both parents love them. Who knows what affect this tug of war will have in their lives?

If you take the matter to your countries court system, I am sure you will have a better chance in securing the right of primary career. How they work out visitation rights has to weigh up in favour of the children, not the parents. If one is financial and one isn't, how can there be a fair visitation right, with the distances involved? I see this a lot when one parent takes off with the children, just to impose restrictions on the other parent. They punish them at their discretion, sanctioned in a way by the judicial system.

The fact that the father has the right of primary career and has had them in his custody, the children are settled in school and have what appears to be a family network around them favours the father in any future court proceedings. Plus the matter has been determined by a court.

Don't know the financials of both parents in this case, but Dad also has a responsibility to ensure his children get time with mum. And Mum has that same responsibility to let them live in a harmonious way, not taking advantage of their visit to kidnap them.

Hope it works out for the children, as they do not need this level of media encroaching into their lives.

[F4UCorsair]

The custody and visitation decision is a step in the right direction for the Thai courts, but still not in step with prevailing family Court decisions in the West. A western court would have denied the mother visitation rights, or only allowed supervised visitation. By abducting the children, the mother demonstrated that unsupervised visitation would not be in the best interest of the children.

I think we would all agree with your sentiment here but the judge still has to follow the law and there are two things that could have tied his hands a little, very possibly against his better (personal) judgement.

1. She managed to get this hearing before her trial for abduction. The judge therefore has to consider her innocent of that charge at that time. A quirk of the legal system yes, but I can see where he was coming from and it would appear he (probably) did what he has the jurisdiction to do.

2. I am fairly sure there is a law in Thailand that states that both parents must have right of access to some degree. This obviously can be over-ridden by a court but that would depend on her "fit state" i.e. the trial for abduction. It may well be possible for the current judgement to be overturned AFTER her trial although it probably would not be worth pursuing. In some ways this is actually a better scenario than exists in the West where some parents, more often than not the male partner, are denied reasonable access. Swings and roundabouts from that perspective.

Reference your para 2, a judge cannot overturn a law. That's done by legislation. Judges must always determinee within the law, and that's why we laymen often see what we think are stupid decisions.

Determining outside the law guarantees an appeal and overturning of the original decision.

[ExPratt]

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I doubt they'll overturn it but as mentioned it can be traumatic for the kids. We had to go inside the Udon Thani Juvenile prison as that is where the child services are in Udon. I wouldn't risk it , you never know what they'll do

What are you waffling on about?

The case is settled...........it's over and Dad has custody.........read more!!!

Appreciate the advice buddy , but Ive been through the process of getting custody of my 2 kids, if one thing is certain in the process it is that nothing is certain, My kids mother was a compulsive gamble , did about 3 million, pissed off and left my kids with her "Mate" when I was working overseas and to top it off when we'd been separated and I had the kids for a couple of years , got nicked for possessing Yeh Ba, My brief (From a very well known company that are British owned) Told me there are no rights and wrongs in Thailand when it comes to kids, basically they just go by what the kids want, so you are giving a 8 year old kid a life changing decision to make which also puts undue pressure on them , like many kids when their parents break up they also tend to think it is their fault or they are in trouble. Regardless of whether he got the decision or not imo he was a fool for risking it and putting his kids through further trauma, Other than that a good result and I hope it sends a message to others,

As for the mother my initial impression is that she deserved iy , However separating a Mother from her children is a tragedy anywhere. I had terrible feelings of guilt , even though the facts were my ex wife was not capable of looking after children. My kids are far better off and well looked after now but I still have attacks of remorse about separating them from their Mother and I would say this man will also no matter how much trauma she put him through ,

Edited November 18, 2014 by ExPratt

[Strangebrew]

Sir My hat is off to you it took massive gonads to do what you knowing how things are done in Thailand. Congratulations.

[Estrada]

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I doubt they'll overturn it but as mentioned it can be traumatic for the kids. We had to go inside the Udon Thani Juvenile prison as that is where the child services are in Udon. I wouldn't risk it , you never know what they'll do

You still haven´t read the whole story:

"

Her attempts to gain custody of the children fell on deaf ears this week as the judges made it clear to her that the case would be decided based on the opinions and wants of the children, together with reports on their current home environment and that they are not possessions to be demanded but rather young people with lives ahead of them.

British social services provided excellent references for both Mr Day and his present partner, and both children were questioned in the UK, with full reports made and given to the courts here and those reports were duly translated into Thai for the convenience of the family court.

In what is almost a landmark decision, The Chonburi court has given FULL custody to Mr. Day for both girls, affording the mother an annual visitation provided that she pay for the travel costs and that the girls WISH to visit"

I must have got a landmark decision as well , as that's what I got

I had a very long drawn out battle about my kids , lots of sleepless nights thinking I was going to lose them. Even of there was a 0.1 % of things going wrong I would not risk losing them. Also as mentioned it isn't a nice process for the kids. Legal custody of Children in Thailand is treated like a dispute over property basically if you are a farang you have to buy them. No she did this , she did that , they courts are generally uninterested

I agree with you, it is not a landmark decision but par for the course over the last 10 years or so. Several of my friends have been awarded full custody of their children kept away from their fathers by their Thai mothers. In my wife's case her British husband was a drunken, ganja smoking layabout who lived on the dole, she had to go to work to help feed and clothe her daughter whilst living in the UK. On her return to Thailand and subsequent divorce, she was given full custody as she was able to provide her child a better life.