Higher BTU needed for an inverter air con

[Anthony5]

Thank you all for your help but I am know total confused what to buy now

It seems like all the manufactures state that the Inverter should cool the room quicker but in my experience and the experience of another on here finds it not to be the case and I cannot remember anybody with an inverter stating that they are working good at cooling the room quickly

I guess post #5 and #6 don't count then.

looks like you only want to hear certain answers.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Anthony5

[CGW]

We fitted 4 x new Mitsubishi Inverter air cons earlier this year, 3 perform as expected, the 18k BTU in the bedroom has been a disapointment! cools to around 24c then decedies that is cool enough and wont cool anymore no matter how cool you set the thermostat! We have had Mitsubishi back twice but they say all is well, I dont think it is but if the technicians dont have the knowledge what can you say to them?

Surely the compressor should keep running (at a good speed) until the room reaches the preset tempreture - not according to Mitsu!

[offset]

Thank you all for your help but I am know total confused what to buy now

It seems like all the manufactures state that the Inverter should cool the room quicker but in my experience and the experience of another on here finds it not to be the case and I cannot remember anybody with an inverter stating that they are working good at cooling the room quickly

I guess post #5 and #6 don't count then.

looks like you only want to hear certain answers.

Yes sorry I forgot about those 2 postings but that only make me more confused what I should buy

I like the inverter because it keeps the temperature more stable but in my rooms they just do not cool the room enough so I still am not sure what to buy

[Anthony5]

We fitted 4 x new Mitsubishi Inverter air cons earlier this year, 3 perform as expected, the 18k BTU in the bedroom has been a disapointment! cools to around 24c then decedies that is cool enough and wont cool anymore no matter how cool you set the thermostat! We have had Mitsubishi back twice but they say all is well, I dont think it is but if the technicians dont have the knowledge what can you say to them?

Surely the compressor should keep running (at a good speed) until the room reaches the preset tempreture - not according to Mitsu!

To be functional an inverter aircon has to be correctly sized for your room, if it is too big for the required space the compressor will indeed turn of, similar if the temperature setting is too high for the ambient temperature.

18000 Btu serves a 30m² room.,

[Anthony5]

Thank you all for your help but I am know total confused what to buy now

It seems like all the manufactures state that the Inverter should cool the room quicker but in my experience and the experience of another on here finds it not to be the case and I cannot remember anybody with an inverter stating that they are working good at cooling the room quickly

I guess post #5 and #6 don't count then.

looks like you only want to hear certain answers.

Yes sorry I forgot about those 2 postings but that only make me more confused what I should buy

I like the inverter because it keeps the temperature more stable but in my rooms they just do not cool the room enough so I still am not sure what to buy

Who do you tend to believe, a few posters on a single forum, or thousands of results if you enter your question in a search engine?

[uwe_rayong]

I also have 2 Daikin Inverter (13k & 24k) and for a guest room a very basic Samsung 9000 BTH.

Both Daikins start slow compared to the Samsung, if you stand next to the outside unit of the Daikin the fan of the compressor is running at maybe 50-60% for the first 2-4 minutes.

After the first minutes it accelerates to 100%. When the target temperature is reached the outside unit is slowed down again, it seldom turns off completely but is running really slow.

The Samsung AC (non inverter) is consistently on a on- off cycle. Difference with Samsung it starts immediately after turn on with 100% ( non inverter is 100% or 0) therefore delivers the first cold air faster then the inverter.

I believe the Daikin is programmed so on purpose, compressor starts slow to ensure sufficient lubrication before switched to 100%.

Reason for an inverter AC is to reduce the start stop cycles and better adapt to the required cooling capacity. If you have big windows without curtain you need a lot higher cooling capacity in the day. Good scenario for an inverter.

If the needed cooling power is more consistent, I believe the inverter is not so useful.

If your 12K BTU AC (inverter or not) is not able to cool down your 18sqm room below 27°C in the night it is not working properly.

Very basic test:

Turn AC on, mode cooling or snowflake
press the Turbo or Powerful button on the remote (bridges the temperature sensor)

go to the outside unit, compressor should be running and you should feel a warm air stream.

[Anthony5]

The Samsung AC (non inverter) is consistently on a on- off cycle. Difference with Samsung it starts immediately after turn on with 100% ( non inverter is 100% or 0) therefore delivers the first cold air faster then the inverter.

I believe the Daikin is programmed so on purpose, compressor starts slow to ensure sufficient lubrication before switched to 100%.

There is no aircon, inverter or non inverter, that has its compressor starting run at 100% immediately after turn on, as they all have a safety built in as the aircon can't know if it was previously switched off while compressor was running or not.

[CGW]

We fitted 4 x new Mitsubishi Inverter air cons earlier this year, 3 perform as expected, the 18k BTU in the bedroom has been a disapointment! cools to around 24c then decedies that is cool enough and wont cool anymore no matter how cool you set the thermostat! We have had Mitsubishi back twice but they say all is well, I dont think it is but if the technicians dont have the knowledge what can you say to them?

Surely the compressor should keep running (at a good speed) until the room reaches the preset tempreture - not according to Mitsu!

To be functional an inverter aircon has to be correctly sized for your room, if it is too big for the required space the compressor will indeed turn of, similar if the temperature setting is too high for the ambient temperature.

18000 Btu serves a 30m² room.,

Aircon is correctly sized for the room which is also very welli insulated, double glazed etc. The point I was trying to make (Poorly!) was if the so called technicians cannot repair or set up air con in the first place, as sounds to be the problem with OP aircon then there is lttle point going with Inverter, seems that alot of the technicians are struggling to keep up with the new technology!

[Anthony5]

We fitted 4 x new Mitsubishi Inverter air cons earlier this year, 3 perform as expected, the 18k BTU in the bedroom has been a disapointment! cools to around 24c then decedies that is cool enough and wont cool anymore no matter how cool you set the thermostat! We have had Mitsubishi back twice but they say all is well, I dont think it is but if the technicians dont have the knowledge what can you say to them?

Surely the compressor should keep running (at a good speed) until the room reaches the preset tempreture - not according to Mitsu!

To be functional an inverter aircon has to be correctly sized for your room, if it is too big for the required space the compressor will indeed turn of, similar if the temperature setting is too high for the ambient temperature.

18000 Btu serves a 30m² room.,

Aircon is correctly sized for the room which is also very welli insulated, double glazed etc. The point I was trying to make (Poorly!) was if the so called technicians cannot repair or set up air con in the first place, as sounds to be the problem with OP aircon then there is lttle point going with Inverter, seems that alot of the technicians are struggling to keep up with the new technology!

Actually there isn't much difference in installing a inverter aircon compared to a conventional one.

Most of the inverter aircons use a new kind of refrigerant R-410a, but some also use the regular R-22, and that refrigerant is actually inside the compressor from factory already so they just have the vacuum the tubes and release the refrigerant.

A R-410a enabled inverter aircon also uses smaller tubing as a conventional aircon, but this can be overcome by adding more refrigerant. This can be quite tricky however since R-410a is a blend of refrigerants and only can be topped up by adding in liquid form, while R-22 refrigerant can be topped up by adding vapor.

But there is no ready made answer for the OP's or your issue, since so many things come in play, but most probably the unit has a fault.

As I said I had an almost similar problem with one of my aircons, and technicians straight from the manufacturer did extensive tests including repeatedly changing the refrigerant an replacing the indoor and outdoor unit PCB, without positive result.

It was only after they replaced both indoor and outdoor complete units that the problem was solved immediately.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Anthony5

[uwe_rayong]

The Samsung AC (non inverter) is consistently on a on- off cycle. Difference with Samsung it starts immediately after turn on with 100% ( non inverter is 100% or 0) therefore delivers the first cold air faster then the inverter.

I believe the Daikin is programmed so on purpose, compressor starts slow to ensure sufficient lubrication before switched to 100%.

There is no aircon, inverter or non inverter, that has its compressor starting run at 100% immediately after turn on, as they all have a safety built in as the aircon can't know if it was previously switched off while compressor was running or not.

Yes that is correct, but I am not talking about the 20 seconds delay after turn on or power failure, I was talking about the time it takes a Daikin Inverter to reach 100%, the non inverter is not able to reduce the power, It's either running or not....

Because of that I think if you compare inverter with the "slow start" to non inverter ac that the first stream of cold air is delivered by the non inverter ac.

However, even my 5 years old Daikin does the slow start only if the unit is cold.

If, in case of a short power failure, the compressor needs to restart it takes only 20-30 second to reach the max. output again after reconnect.

So I am quite happy with the inverter mainly because it is not so loud.

[Anthony5]

The Samsung AC (non inverter) is consistently on a on- off cycle. Difference with Samsung it starts immediately after turn on with 100% ( non inverter is 100% or 0) therefore delivers the first cold air faster then the inverter.

I believe the Daikin is programmed so on purpose, compressor starts slow to ensure sufficient lubrication before switched to 100%.

There is no aircon, inverter or non inverter, that has its compressor starting run at 100% immediately after turn on, as they all have a safety built in as the aircon can't know if it was previously switched off while compressor was running or not.

Yes that is correct, but I am not talking about the 20 seconds delay after turn on or power failure, I was talking about the time it takes a Daikin Inverter to reach 100%, the non inverter is not able to reduce the power, It's either running or not....

Because of that I think if you compare inverter with the "slow start" to non inverter ac that the first stream of cold air is delivered by the non inverter ac.

However, even my 5 years old Daikin does the slow start only if the unit is cold.

If, in case of a short power failure, the compressor needs to restart it takes only 20-30 second to reach the max. output again after reconnect.

So I am quite happy with the inverter mainly because it is not so loud.

What is below is a standard for all aircons.

http://www.daikinindia.com/products-services/faqs

• The air conditioner does not start operation immediately after it is turned on.

• To reduce excessive load in a restart, the air conditioner does not operate for three minutes when the ON switch is pressed immediately after it is shut down or when the operation mode (setting) is changed using the remote controller.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Anthony5

[Naam]

What is below is a standard for all aircons.

http://www.daikinindia.com/products-services/faqs

• The air conditioner does not start operation immediately after it is turned on.

• To reduce excessive load in a restart, the air conditioner does not operate for three minutes when the ON switch is pressed immediately after it is shut down or when the operation mode (setting) is changed using the remote controller.

the compressor starts immediately running at full speed if the start is not a "restart" limited by a built-in timer. the interpretation that there is a delay at any start is incorrect.

[Naam]

Most of the inverter aircons use a new kind of refrigerant R-410a, but some also use the regular R-22, and that refrigerant is actually inside the compressor from factory already so they just have the vacuum the tubes and release the refrigerant.

It was only after they replaced both indoor and outdoor complete units that the problem was solved immediately.

please no fairy tales Anthony!

[Naam]

If, in case of a short power failure, the compressor needs to restart it takes only 20-30 second to reach the max. output again after reconnect.

another fairy tale Uwe!

[Naam]

The Samsung AC (non inverter) is consistently on a on- off cycle. Difference with Samsung it starts immediately after turn on with 100% ( non inverter is 100% or 0) therefore delivers the first cold air faster then the inverter.

I believe the Daikin is programmed so on purpose, compressor starts slow to ensure sufficient lubrication before switched to 100%.

There is no aircon, inverter or non inverter, that has its compressor starting run at 100% immediately after turn on, as they all have a safety built in as the aircon can't know if it was previously switched off while compressor was running or not.

both comments are fairy tales!

note: the aircon "knows" very well whether it was previously switched on because it is "told" by the timer relay which is a standard aircon feature since decades.

i apologise for being a pain in the butt

Edited December 4, 2014 by Naam

[Anthony5]

Most of the inverter aircons use a new kind of refrigerant R-410a, but some also use the regular R-22, and that refrigerant is actually inside the compressor from factory already so they just have the vacuum the tubes and release the refrigerant.

It was only after they replaced both indoor and outdoor complete units that the problem was solved immediately.

please no fairy tales Anthony!

I understand from your comment that you have never purchased an inverter aircon then, because EVERY inverter aiorcon that uses the R-410A refrigerant has the refrigerant in the compressor from the factory. Reason they do this probably is because as I explained already, that R-410a refrigerant isn't easy to top up.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Anthony5

[Anthony5]

The Samsung AC (non inverter) is consistently on a on- off cycle. Difference with Samsung it starts immediately after turn on with 100% ( non inverter is 100% or 0) therefore delivers the first cold air faster then the inverter.

I believe the Daikin is programmed so on purpose, compressor starts slow to ensure sufficient lubrication before switched to 100%.

There is no aircon, inverter or non inverter, that has its compressor starting run at 100% immediately after turn on, as they all have a safety built in as the aircon can't know if it was previously switched off while compressor was running or not.

both comments are fairy tales!

note: the aircon "knows" very well whether it was previously switched on because it is "told" by the timer relay which is a standard aircon feature since decades.

i apologise for being a pain in the butt

The pain in the butt wouldn't be such a problem if you weren't making up things just to sound knowledgeable.

[Naam]

The Samsung AC (non inverter) is consistently on a on- off cycle. Difference with Samsung it starts immediately after turn on with 100% ( non inverter is 100% or 0) therefore delivers the first cold air faster then the inverter.

I believe the Daikin is programmed so on purpose, compressor starts slow to ensure sufficient lubrication before switched to 100%.

There is no aircon, inverter or non inverter, that has its compressor starting run at 100% immediately after turn on, as they all have a safety built in as the aircon can't know if it was previously switched off while compressor was running or not.

both comments are fairy tales!

note: the aircon "knows" very well whether it was previously switched on because it is "told" by the timer relay which is a standard aircon feature since decades.

i apologise for being a pain in the butt

The pain in the butt wouldn't be such a problem if you weren't making up things just to sound knowledgeable.

Honourable Sir Anthony, Esq.;

a tiny portion of my gray cells (those hidden under my hard skull) possesses more knowledge about thermo-physics and airconditioning than most contributors of this thread presently have and/or will have in future.

if you want to gain some knowledge in this respect then google/search for at least a dozen threads in Thaivisa with many dozens of my professional contributions.

[Anthony5]

The pain in the butt wouldn't be such a problem if you weren't making up things just to sound knowledgeable.

Honourable Sir Anthony, Esq.;

a tiny portion of my gray cells (those hidden under my hard skull) possesses more knowledge about thermo-physics and airconditioning than most contributors of this thread presently have and/or will have in future.

if you want to gain some knowledge in this respect then google/search for at least a dozen threads in Thaivisa with many dozens of my professional contributions.

L-dog.jpg

If you are indeed so knowledgeable, thousands of posts don't make someone knowledgeable by the way, then why do you refute my comment that R-410a refrigerant is inserted in the compressor at the factory, which is a known FACT. You can ask any airon manufacturer in Thailand about this.

[Anthony5]

Most of the inverter aircons use a new kind of refrigerant R-410a, but some also use the regular R-22, and that refrigerant is actually inside the compressor from factory already so they just have the vacuum the tubes and release the refrigerant.

It was only after they replaced both indoor and outdoor complete units that the problem was solved immediately.

please no fairy tales Anthony!

Fairy tale Mr Thermo Physics professor?

http://hvacreducationtechtips.blogspot.com/2010/05/r410.html

Most R-410A air conditioners are charged with refrigerant at the factory, and are seldom incorrectly charged. R-410A air conditioners that have the correct refrigerant charge and airflow typically perform very close to manufacturers listed cooling efficiencies. Over-charging or under-charging refrigerant however, reduces R-410A air conditioner performance and efficiency.

R-410A air conditioners charged with refrigerant at the factory are shipped with the refrigerant charge typically noted on the unit nameplate. This charge is for a typical application of between 15 to 25 feet of equivalent line length, depending on the particular manufacturer. Occasionally, you may have to field charge or adjust charge when servicing existing systems.

[Naam]

The pain in the butt wouldn't be such a problem if you weren't making up things just to sound knowledgeable.

Honourable Sir Anthony, Esq.;

a tiny portion of my gray cells (those hidden under my hard skull) possesses more knowledge about thermo-physics and airconditioning than most contributors of this thread presently have and/or will have in future.

if you want to gain some knowledge in this respect then google/search for at least a dozen threads in Thaivisa with many dozens of my professional contributions.

L-dog.jpg

If you are indeed so knowledgeable, thousands of posts don't make someone knowledgeable by the way, then why do you refute my comment that R-410a refrigerant is inserted in the compressor at the factory, which is a known FACT. You can ask any airon manufacturer in Thailand about this.

a technical man like me considers your statement that "compressors are factory precharged" as misleading because not only the compressors but the whole outside compressor/condenser unit is precharged. the compressor itself can only hold a fraction of the total refrigerant amount required for the whole system, i.e. evaporator (inside) unit as well as suction and pressure pipes. distances exceeding 3-3.5m (~10-12') between the units require additional refrigerant. the main reason for the precharged outside units is to save time consuming evacuation pumping.

by the way, your reference to my post count is completely irrelevant

[Bkungbank]

In my room I get a fan to help me cool down, open air-conditional and fan will help so much.

[Anthony5]

The pain in the butt wouldn't be such a problem if you weren't making up things just to sound knowledgeable.

Honourable Sir Anthony, Esq.;

a tiny portion of my gray cells (those hidden under my hard skull) possesses more knowledge about thermo-physics and airconditioning than most contributors of this thread presently have and/or will have in future.

if you want to gain some knowledge in this respect then google/search for at least a dozen threads in Thaivisa with many dozens of my professional contributions.

L-dog.jpg

If you are indeed so knowledgeable, thousands of posts don't make someone knowledgeable by the way, then why do you refute my comment that R-410a refrigerant is inserted in the compressor at the factory, which is a known FACT. You can ask any airon manufacturer in Thailand about this.

a technical man like me considers your statement that "compressors are factory precharged" as misleading because not only the compressors but the whole outside compressor/condenser unit is precharged. the compressor itself can only hold a fraction of the total refrigerant amount required for the whole system, i.e. evaporator (inside) unit as well as suction and pressure pipes. distances exceeding 3-3.5m (~10-12') between the units require additional refrigerant. the main reason for the precharged outside units is to save time consuming evacuation pumping.

by the way, your reference to my post count is completely irrelevant

The only thing you seem to be professional in is bla-bla yada-yada all the rest is yakety-yak, you think 25 feet is only 3.5 meter?

http://hvacreducationtechtips.blogspot.com/2010/05/r410.html

R-410A air conditioners charged with refrigerant at the factory are shipped with the refrigerant charge typically noted on the unit nameplate.

This charge is for a typical application of between 15 to 25 feet of equivalent line length, depending on the particular manufacturer.

Fact is that the refrigerant is precharged in the compressor under very high pressure, and for a Daikin inverter 12000 Btu holds enough refrigerant for a distance between indoor and outdoor unit of 9 meters. If you like I can forward you the personal email from the head of technical department of Daikin Thailand, who with pleasure will confirm this to you. Of course he will not be as technical knowledgeable as you, right ?

Sure that the reference to your post count is irrelevant, as it has become clear that it definitely didn't make you anything more knowledgeable.

[Crossy]

Ok people, enough!

I'm quite sure we all know that it is the outdoor unit (which contains amongst other things the compressor) that is pre-charged at the factory.

Please take the time to read the forum rules, particularly this one:-

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

Further bickering will net a nice holiday.