Thai Court accepts trial of 'Men in Black' perpetrators during anti govt rallies in 2010

[Suriya4]

There has been that many anti government demonstrations. 2010 I believe was red shirt rally season. Correct me by all means. Was it not the defence of many a misguided fool on here that the army were ok in there over the top reaponse and killing 90+ people because the red shirts were using men dressed in black.

They were charged with carrying war weapon which included M79 grenade launchers, M16, AK 47 and HK 33 assault rifles into the capital, and used them against anti- government protesters gathering at the Democracy monument on April 10, 2010.

Have I just got this all mixed up and its me who is the misguided fool

The army didn't kill 90+ people. The red shirt militia killed some of them.

Is it an over the top response to go in armed the same as the armed protesters?

edit: but your highlighted point is most likely an editing mistake.

The red shirt militia killed some of them.

how many would that have been?

About 89 is my guess.

[Docno]

Wonder if the good general will pursue the murder of a nurse in the temple grounds with such gusto.

Well Yingluck, Chalerm and Tarit didn't bother pursuing anybody who attacked, murdered and threatened opponents of Thaksin's puppet regime. In fact no one in the RTP bothered, even when innocent bystanders and children were murdered.

If you bothered to read all the reports regarding the 2010 insurgency you'd see that not all attacks were carried out by the military, and some of those that were not resulted in innocent deaths. Do your own research or continue to post politically biased nonsense - up to you.

Huh?? He is simply calling for balance... calling for the prosecution of the soldier(s) who killed unarmed medical/rescue volunteers sheltering in a temple during the crackdown. Soldiers using scopes who would have seen the women and men were unarmed, were sheltering, were not a threat, and were medical/rescue workers. In war, shooting a medic is considered a war crime. So there is reason for prosecution. Why do you see a call for balance as an indicator of bias? The bias seems to be more on your side....

My God, you must feel like an expert having watched some movies from your armchair! And others like you: sniper here, sniper there, blah-blah, pfff, so tiring! Tens of years ago, I did the job, I slept with my rifle, but seeing what today's guys are doing, no, I couldn't be a modern sniper, these guys can walk on water! I wonder whether Thailand is lucky enough to have ten couples of them.

For you 'uninformed' ( did I say ...?) guys a soldier + a standard issue automatic light army rifle + 'a' (some) scope on it = 'a sniper'! You have no idea of what you are talking about... Such gear is as close as the three wheeler you gave your four years old kid is to Valentino Rossi's motor GP machine, so go and have another 'gin-to', please!

As if even any well trained professional soldier (not a recruit then like most a the time), would have the opportunity to go for 'the detail in the picture' when being shot at, as did actually happen from the Wat, and not 'reciprocate fire' IN THE DIRECTION the shots were fired from, to protect his comrades, himself ...and innocent bystanders!

It's damned sad for the young nurse and dramatic for her family, her life is irreplaceable, clear! BUT what should have the soldiers done? NOT shoot back at the red terrorists shoothing at them? Have some more soldiers killed by the bastards? What? Were they on adrenaline? Yes, high, sure. Did they even notice the nurse, not sure. Did they aim at the nurse? I'm sure NOT! The horrible name is: 'collateral damage', being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Not shoot at a Wat? Correct, in principle. But what whan shot FROM the Wat? Same? NO! ...And why did the red terrorists not respect the protection of the Wat? Why did they (once more) take advantage of being surrounded by unarmed, innocent(?) civilians (question mark, because at that time, most present were 'hard core' reds, hiding among panicking leftover people).

And all the people here and elsewhere who never had to be in 'smoke', real combat situations, should, once and for all shut up their big mouths, praising themselves lucky to have been spared! And I don't even want to think about having to shoot at 'my own people' as the Thai soldiers HAD TO do!

Go wonder why there is that one man I hate, hate, hate, so much, for having done this all to his own people!

Wow - you need to get your money back on those anger management workshops. Let's see:

"CRES officials said unidentified snipers were active around Rajprasong, and obstructed security operations. Spokesman Colonel Sansern Kaewkamnerd said unidentified snipers were responsible for deaths at the temple." [http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/05/31/national/Mysterious-death-at-Wat-Pathum-Wanaram-30130490.html]

"Kittichai Khangkhan, a 43 year old Khon Kaen resident, insists he saw a group of men wearing jackets that looked like soldiers' uniforms on the Skytrain railway line in front of the temple - and that the men fired intensively at people in the supposed "safe zone" at 6pm on May 19." [same source as above]

"Abhisit's government approved the use of live ammunition under limited conditions and deployed snipers during the demonstration." [http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/06/six-killed-thai-soldiers-crackdown-protesters]

"The inquest dismissed claims by a soldier that there was an unidentified armed group near the temple when the shootings happened, saying there was not enough evidence. It also said the six people were not using any weapons when they were killed." [same source as above].

Now please show me a reliable source that substantiates your claim that there was gunfire emanating from the temple and that the soldiers were acting defensively when they killed the nurse and five others. And try to turn down your insults, emotion, and rhetoric a bit. .

[mikemac]

.............."2010 is a very good example of someone, and it's not Thaksin, pulling the trigger on Thai people."....................

Look at the facts, the timeline regarding the Supreme Courts' decision regarding the seizing of Thaksin's assets (Feb 2010) and the beginning of the UDD "peaceful" protests in March (under the guise of a call for new elections)

Look at the costs involved in organizing and funding an operation like that, tens of thousands of paid protesters leaving their farms and jobs in the north, traveling to Bangkok and terrorising the city for months on end.

Abhisit, Suthep and the Army certainly did not organize or want these terrorist activities, and you can't tell me the people did it for nothing or were funded by the UDD.

The entire operation was created and funded by one man, with an axe to grind, one Thaksin Shinawatra.

Don't waste your time telling me it is not Thaksin pulling the trigger on Thai people. He even made statements early in the peace saying that if things got hot he would be there with the protesters, which was a lie. He was willing to fund the operation, willing to see people from all sides die for his cause, but not willing to put himself in danger.

"To solve a problem you must first find the source"

I bet a lot of people outside of Thailand were wondering why the government allowed the protests to go on for as long as they did.

Can you imagine the same thing happening in China, and the outcome ? Or the USA, the UK, or Australia ? Had it happened in China there would have been a lot more killed, in the other countries it would not been allowed to even begin.

I would much rather see Thaksin face charges for the 90 deaths than his sacrificial black and red shirt goons.

Even after the AV government froze the bank accounts of "More than 80 prominent Thais — including politicians and former military officers — were named publicly in a government-issued financial blacklist that noted how much money they had withdrawn from their accounts before and during the protests. Businesses were named, too."

www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jun/21/thai-government-freezes-assets-red-shirt-backers/#ixzz3L571lDig

...they could not find a single piece of evidence implicating Thaksin Shinawatra for the funding of the 2010 protests. It certainly wasn't from a lack of trying.

I was watching the UDD rally live on a daily basis, as a part of my analysis of the situation (along with the full spectrum of media sources, including government announcements & ASTV, as to make the best effort to get a balanced perspective) and was truly amazed at the level of donations. They were getting around 1 million THB per day from individuals, households, businesses & organisations in donations. Food donations were huge also. After every speaker or performer they would read out a list of donations (as did the PRDC in their latest protests). 1 million per day was certainly enough for the promised payments of 500THB for travel expenses to the venue or 2,000 for those bringing a vehicle. (Youtube video of payments for this went viral among yellow supporters as proof of daily attendance payments) & other expenses incurred.

Call me what you like but your comment is bs.

Wow, detailed & thoughtful comeback. Evidence & reasoning not your thing Mike?

The link you posted to the Washington Times website featured an article named "Thai government freezes assets of suspected backers of the Red Shirts".

It was written by Richard S. Ehrlich, who also posts articles on Asian Correspondent. Enough said. Anyone who has anything to do with that site has no credibility whatsoever.

It is full of red flavored rubbish and is anti-Monarchy.

Sooner or later you red flag wavers get so desperate to push your barrow that you post links to sites that are full of stuff not allowed on the forum, mainly anti-junta, anti-royals. I report every one I see to the mods and they are removed.

Don't bother addressing any more comments at me as I will ignore you now I know you are just another fraudulent troll.

[AleG]

My God, you must feel like an expert having watched some movies from your armchair! And others like you: sniper here, sniper there, blah-blah, pfff, so tiring! Tens of years ago, I did the job, I slept with my rifle, but seeing what today's guys are doing, no, I couldn't be a modern sniper, these guys can walk on water! I wonder whether Thailand is lucky enough to have ten couples of them.

For you 'uninformed' ( did I say ...?) guys a soldier + a standard issue automatic light army rifle + 'a' (some) scope on it = 'a sniper'! You have no idea of what you are talking about... Such gear is as close as the three wheeler you gave your four years old kid is to Valentino Rossi's motor GP machine, so go and have another 'gin-to', please!

As if even any well trained professional soldier (not a recruit then like most a the time), would have the opportunity to go for 'the detail in the picture' when being shot at, as did actually happen from the Wat, and not 'reciprocate fire' IN THE DIRECTION the shots were fired from, to protect his comrades, himself ...and innocent bystanders!

It's damned sad for the young nurse and dramatic for her family, her life is irreplaceable, clear! BUT what should have the soldiers done? NOT shoot back at the red terrorists shoothing at them? Have some more soldiers killed by the bastards? What? Were they on adrenaline? Yes, high, sure. Did they even notice the nurse, not sure. Did they aim at the nurse? I'm sure NOT! The horrible name is: 'collateral damage', being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Not shoot at a Wat? Correct, in principle. But what whan shot FROM the Wat? Same? NO! ...And why did the red terrorists not respect the protection of the Wat? Why did they (once more) take advantage of being surrounded by unarmed, innocent(?) civilians (question mark, because at that time, most present were 'hard core' reds, hiding among panicking leftover people).

And all the people here and elsewhere who never had to be in 'smoke', real combat situations, should, once and for all shut up their big mouths, praising themselves lucky to have been spared! And I don't even want to think about having to shoot at 'my own people' as the Thai soldiers HAD TO do!

Go wonder why there is that one man I hate, hate, hate, so much, for having done this all to his own people!

Wow - you need to get your money back on those anger management workshops. Let's see:

"CRES officials said unidentified snipers were active around Rajprasong, and obstructed security operations. Spokesman Colonel Sansern Kaewkamnerd said unidentified snipers were responsible for deaths at the temple." [http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/05/31/national/Mysterious-death-at-Wat-Pathum-Wanaram-30130490.html]

"Kittichai Khangkhan, a 43 year old Khon Kaen resident, insists he saw a group of men wearing jackets that looked like soldiers' uniforms on the Skytrain railway line in front of the temple - and that the men fired intensively at people in the supposed "safe zone" at 6pm on May 19." [same source as above]

"Abhisit's government approved the use of live ammunition under limited conditions and deployed snipers during the demonstration." [http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/06/six-killed-thai-soldiers-crackdown-protesters]

"The inquest dismissed claims by a soldier that there was an unidentified armed group near the temple when the shootings happened, saying there was not enough evidence. It also said the six people were not using any weapons when they were killed." [same source as above].

Now please show me a reliable source that substantiates your claim that there was gunfire emanating from the temple and that the soldiers were acting defensively when they killed the nurse and five others. And try to turn down your insults, emotion, and rhetoric a bit. .

Kittichai Khangkhan, a 43 year old Khon Kaen resident, insists he saw a group of men wearing jackets that looked like soldiers' uniforms on the Skytrain railway line in front of the temple

You mean like this?

The "Men In Black" came with one purpose, to incite urban warfare and create enough martyrs for the cause, so that partisan ghouls could score political points in pursuit of an agenda.

You think they wouldn't do that? From the horses mouth:

"UDD co-leader Jakkrapob has told some contacts privately that he favors instigating small acts of violence in hopes of triggering an overreaction by security forces, which in turn would give momentum to red calls for systemic change."

[tbthailand]

I was here and saw it and I also read news outside of thailand and talked to other people who were here.

And I know from 'non-shin' sources that the army waged a 6 day war in Bangkok in May of 2010 and killed more people than the official 'headcount' indicates.

Not everything bad in Thailand is Thaksin's fault. Sometimes it is the fault of others.

2010 is a very good example of someone, and it's not Thaksin, pulling the trigger on Thai people.

.............."2010 is a very good example of someone, and it's not Thaksin, pulling the trigger on Thai people."....................

Look at the facts, the timeline regarding the Supreme Courts' decision regarding the seizing of Thaksin's assets (Feb 2010) and the beginning of the UDD "peaceful" protests in March (under the guise of a call for new elections)

Look at the costs involved in organizing and funding an operation like that, tens of thousands of paid protesters leaving their farms and jobs in the north, traveling to Bangkok and terrorising the city for months on end.

Abhisit, Suthep and the Army certainly did not organize or want these terrorist activities, and you can't tell me the people did it for nothing or were funded by the UDD.

The entire operation was created and funded by one man, with an axe to grind, one Thaksin Shinawatra.

Don't waste your time telling me it is not Thaksin pulling the trigger on Thai people. He even made statements early in the peace saying that if things got hot he would be there with the protesters, which was a lie. He was willing to fund the operation, willing to see people from all sides die for his cause, but not willing to put himself in danger.

"To solve a problem you must first find the source"

I was here and saw it and I also read news outside of thailand and talked to other people who were here.

I bet a lot of people outside of Thailand were wondering why the government allowed the protests to go on for as long as they did.

Can you imagine the same thing happening in China, and the outcome ? Or the USA, the UK, or Australia ? Had it happened in China there would have been a lot more killed, in the other countries it would not been allowed to even begin.

I would much rather see Thaksin face charges for the 90 deaths than his sacrificial black and red shirt goons.

for sure I am not going to waste my time telling you anything because your mind was closed long time ago, the key thrown away.

For other readers, I would point out the obvious. The Thai Army was led by the current 'PM' under orders from the 'government' of the day with Suthep giving the orders to clear the demonstrators. No matter how hard you want to not see it, that is not Thaksin.

The tired old horse of 'paid to protest' has been debunked by researchers who have studied the red shirt movement. You may not want to believe it, but people left their jobs to protest. Amazing, isn't it? Protesting against a government installed by the army.

And it wasn't done under the 'guise' of calling for elections - they were actually calling for elections. Notice how subtle that is? They were not asking for the return of the government that had been overthrown by the courts and the army. There was no constitutional mechanism to do that. But their was (at the time) a constitutional mechanism to let the people decide the issue - all the people of Thailand - and that was their call for elections.

Which compares appropriately with the actions this year of the two players mentioned above, the 'PM' and Suthep, who initiated the May attacks against the protesters demanding elections. This year the call was for extra-constitutional measures to replace an elected government, not through elections, but through some kind of 'interim' government. Hmmmm, look how that worked out.

Funny that you end with the comment about how long the protests went on in 2010. That's really funny.

As for claiming that protests would not have been allowed in other countries, well, I can assure you that the evidence of protests in other countries during the last few years is abundant. There is one country, Thailand, where that is currently not the case.

[tbthailand]

I was here and saw it and I also read news outside of thailand and talked to other people who were here.

And I know from 'non-shin' sources that the army waged a 6 day war in Bangkok in May of 2010 and killed more people than the official 'headcount' indicates.

Not everything bad in Thailand is Thaksin's fault. Sometimes it is the fault of others.

2010 is a very good example of someone, and it's not Thaksin, pulling the trigger on Thai people.

Where did you get that conspiracy theory from? Were they the ones buried in Rayong?

what conspiracy theory?

You've never heard of the Thai army undercounting the victims of its actions? They have a documented history of doing so. It's not surprising that this also happened in 2010.

As for hearing about it, yes, I have actually heard about it from people who saw it. To be honest, it surprised me that I knew people who had witnessed disappearing victims. I leave room for the possibility of error in their accounts, but they did not have any reason or motive to fabricate the stories.

[tbthailand]

Even after the AV government froze the bank accounts of "More than 80 prominent Thais — including politicians and former military officers — were named publicly in a government-issued financial blacklist that noted how much money they had withdrawn from their accounts before and during the protests. Businesses were named, too."

www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jun/21/thai-government-freezes-assets-red-shirt-backers/#ixzz3L571lDig

...they could not find a single piece of evidence implicating Thaksin Shinawatra for the funding of the 2010 protests. It certainly wasn't from a lack of trying.

I was watching the UDD rally live on a daily basis, as a part of my analysis of the situation (along with the full spectrum of media sources, including government announcements & ASTV, as to make the best effort to get a balanced perspective) and was truly amazed at the level of donations. They were getting around 1 million THB per day from individuals, households, businesses & organisations in donations. Food donations were huge also. After every speaker or performer they would read out a list of donations (as did the PRDC in their latest protests). 1 million per day was certainly enough for the promised payments of 500THB for travel expenses to the venue or 2,000 for those bringing a vehicle. (Youtube video of payments for this went viral among yellow supporters as proof of daily attendance payments) & other expenses incurred.

Call me what you like but your comment is bs.

Wow, detailed & thoughtful comeback. Evidence & reasoning not your thing Mike?

The link you posted to the Washington Times website featured an article named "Thai government freezes assets of suspected backers of the Red Shirts".

It was written by Richard S. Ehrlich, who also posts articles on Asian Correspondent. Enough said. Anyone who has anything to do with that site has no credibility whatsoever.

It is full of red flavored rubbish and is anti-Monarchy.

Sooner or later you red flag wavers get so desperate to push your barrow that you post links to sites that are full of stuff not allowed on the forum, mainly anti-junta, anti-royals. I report every one I see to the mods and they are removed.

Don't bother addressing any more comments at me as I will ignore you now I know you are just another fraudulent troll.

wow, that is full-on denial.

[whybother]

I was here and saw it and I also read news outside of thailand and talked to other people who were here.

And I know from 'non-shin' sources that the army waged a 6 day war in Bangkok in May of 2010 and killed more people than the official 'headcount' indicates.

Not everything bad in Thailand is Thaksin's fault. Sometimes it is the fault of others.

2010 is a very good example of someone, and it's not Thaksin, pulling the trigger on Thai people.

Where did you get that conspiracy theory from? Were they the ones buried in Rayong?

what conspiracy theory?

You've never heard of the Thai army undercounting the victims of its actions? They have a documented history of doing so. It's not surprising that this also happened in 2010.

As for hearing about it, yes, I have actually heard about it from people who saw it. To be honest, it surprised me that I knew people who had witnessed disappearing victims. I leave room for the possibility of error in their accounts, but they did not have any reason or motive to fabricate the stories.

It wasn't the army doing the counting. It was the hospitals.

[waitforusalso]

Even after the AV government froze the bank accounts of "More than 80 prominent Thais — including politicians and former military officers — were named publicly in a government-issued financial blacklist that noted how much money they had withdrawn from their accounts before and during the protests. Businesses were named, too."

www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jun/21/thai-government-freezes-assets-red-shirt-backers/#ixzz3L571lDig

...they could not find a single piece of evidence implicating Thaksin Shinawatra for the funding of the 2010 protests. It certainly wasn't from a lack of trying.

I was watching the UDD rally live on a daily basis, as a part of my analysis of the situation (along with the full spectrum of media sources, including government announcements & ASTV, as to make the best effort to get a balanced perspective) and was truly amazed at the level of donations. They were getting around 1 million THB per day from individuals, households, businesses & organisations in donations. Food donations were huge also. After every speaker or performer they would read out a list of donations (as did the PRDC in their latest protests). 1 million per day was certainly enough for the promised payments of 500THB for travel expenses to the venue or 2,000 for those bringing a vehicle. (Youtube video of payments for this went viral among yellow supporters as proof of daily attendance payments) & other expenses incurred.

Call me what you like but your comment is bs.

Wow, detailed & thoughtful comeback. Evidence & reasoning not your thing Mike?

The link you posted to the Washington Times website featured an article named "Thai government freezes assets of suspected backers of the Red Shirts".

It was written by Richard S. Ehrlich, who also posts articles on Asian Correspondent. Enough said. Anyone who has anything to do with that site has no credibility whatsoever.

It is full of red flavored rubbish and is anti-Monarchy.

Sooner or later you red flag wavers get so desperate to push your barrow that you post links to sites that are full of stuff not allowed on the forum, mainly anti-junta, anti-royals. I report every one I see to the mods and they are removed.

Don't bother addressing any more comments at me as I will ignore you now I know you are just another fraudulent troll.

OK, how about a link the the Nation with exactly the same information.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/06/21/politics/PM-defends-accounts-freeze-30132013.html

That yellow enough for you Mikey?

[than]

The "Men In Black" came with one purpose, to incite urban warfare and create enough martyrs for the cause, so that partisan ghouls could score political points in pursuit of an agenda.

You think they wouldn't do that? From the horses mouth:

"UDD co-leader Jakkrapob has told some contacts privately that he favors instigating small acts of violence in hopes of triggering an overreaction by security forces, which in turn would give momentum to red calls for systemic change."

Exactly, Jakkrapob and red shirt leaders are used some method form communist insurrection or anarchist movement like Black block for their personal gain.

Your video from CNN show the evidence that Red shirt has been armed during this conflict and this is reveal to the world face. Now some red fanatics cannot deny the facts !

This is rise another question, what were the real purpose of this insurrection, topple Abhisit government or more ?

[whybother]

what conspiracy theory?

You've never heard of the Thai army undercounting the victims of its actions? They have a documented history of doing so. It's not surprising that this also happened in 2010.

As for hearing about it, yes, I have actually heard about it from people who saw it. To be honest, it surprised me that I knew people who had witnessed disappearing victims. I leave room for the possibility of error in their accounts, but they did not have any reason or motive to fabricate the stories.

How do you "witness disappearing victims"?

[tbthailand]

I was here and saw it and I also read news outside of thailand and talked to other people who were here.

And I know from 'non-shin' sources that the army waged a 6 day war in Bangkok in May of 2010 and killed more people than the official 'headcount' indicates.

Not everything bad in Thailand is Thaksin's fault. Sometimes it is the fault of others.

2010 is a very good example of someone, and it's not Thaksin, pulling the trigger on Thai people.

Where did you get that conspiracy theory from? Were they the ones buried in Rayong?

what conspiracy theory?

You've never heard of the Thai army undercounting the victims of its actions? They have a documented history of doing so. It's not surprising that this also happened in 2010.

As for hearing about it, yes, I have actually heard about it from people who saw it. To be honest, it surprised me that I knew people who had witnessed disappearing victims. I leave room for the possibility of error in their accounts, but they did not have any reason or motive to fabricate the stories.

It wasn't the army doing the counting. It was the hospitals.

think about what you just wrote... just for a minute...

[tbthailand]

what conspiracy theory?

You've never heard of the Thai army undercounting the victims of its actions? They have a documented history of doing so. It's not surprising that this also happened in 2010.

As for hearing about it, yes, I have actually heard about it from people who saw it. To be honest, it surprised me that I knew people who had witnessed disappearing victims. I leave room for the possibility of error in their accounts, but they did not have any reason or motive to fabricate the stories.

How do you "witness disappearing victims"?

wow, I guess I could just repeat the last post to you...

[whybother]

what conspiracy theory?

You've never heard of the Thai army undercounting the victims of its actions? They have a documented history of doing so. It's not surprising that this also happened in 2010.

As for hearing about it, yes, I have actually heard about it from people who saw it. To be honest, it surprised me that I knew people who had witnessed disappearing victims. I leave room for the possibility of error in their accounts, but they did not have any reason or motive to fabricate the stories.

It wasn't the army doing the counting. It was the hospitals.

think about what you just wrote... just for a minute...

So ... back to the conspiracy theory then.

Are you suggesting that the hospitals, where any injured or dead people were taken, are complicit in "disappearing victims"?

Remember, when protesters were shot, it wasn't the army that went and collected them. They were taken away by their friends or ambulances came in to get them. They also didn't all go to the same hospitals, so, once again, you're suggesting that a number of hospitals were complicit in "disappearing victims".

What did the people that you know say about the "disappearing victims"?

[wvavin]

My stand is clear. All red shirt terrorists must be severely punished and to be put away from the public for a very long time for the interest of public interest and security.

[metisdead]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...........................(sound of me ignoring brainwashed trolls)

A troll post has been removed.

[visionchaser45]

So, what we are being asked to believe is that the "Men in Black" is really a false flag operation orchestrated by Thaksin to disrupt peaceful Red protests that were being pretty effective and getting attention in the international press? Does it make more sense that other parties, who had more motivation to end the protest, staged attacks and attempted to accuse the other side?

[whybother]

So, what we are being asked to believe is that the "Men in Black" is really a false flag operation orchestrated by Thaksin to disrupt peaceful Red protests that were being pretty effective and getting attention in the international press? Does it make more sense that other parties, who had more motivation to end the protest, staged attacks and attempted to accuse the other side?

There protests weren't doing anything. That's why they needed more attention.

[mango66]

It is clear from the picture who are the accused, it's however unclear if the real perpetrators are seated in front or behind the table.

seems you expect that thay carry their red Tshirts above the black coat !!

[mango66]

The scapegoats (or patsies) are at the front wearing the red ribbons (lest they be confused with the other Police), whilst the masterminds/organizers are the ones in uniform ...

the mastermond is sitting save in Du... !!

seems some of you still blinbded by strong red light !!

[Tatsujin]

The scapegoats (or patsies) are at the front wearing the red ribbons (lest they be confused with the other Police), whilst the masterminds/organizers are the ones in uniform ...

the mastermond is sitting save in Du... !!

seems some of you still blinbded by strong red light !!

Hey "bob" good to see you ... see my post #46 for a more clearer explanation.

[Tatsujin]

So, what we are being asked to believe is that the "Men in Black" is really a false flag operation orchestrated by Thaksin to disrupt peaceful Red protests that were being pretty effective and getting attention in the international press? Does it make more sense that other parties, who had more motivation to end the protest, staged attacks and attempted to accuse the other side?

Given that events in the following years have clearly shown that BOTH side have no qualms about sacrificing innocents to achieve their aims of continuing power and screwing over "the people" they profess to support, we're left with a simple comclusion.

Who had the most to gain with the events that transpired.

From all I have seen and heard, it leads to only one conclusion. The hero of "the people" will do, and has done, anything it takes to regain or retain power in the guise of supporting and enriching the lives of those "people" he claims to support, all the while systematically screwing them over and enriching himself beyong belief.

The other side are no better however, and both sides have no thoughts or compassion or respect for anyone but themselves and how much control and money they can screw out if this country and its people.

Until such time as there is a true self-sacrificing "person" that gets into politics, and actually does things for the betterment of the country and it's people, rather than the constant self-serving liars and thieves enriching themselves at the detriment of everyone else, nothing will ever change here.

For the last I don't know how many years, regardless of the color of shirt they wear, it's been a case of "welcome to the new boss, same as the old boss".

Thailand needs a "Martin Luther King" type of person, someone who stands for what's "right", regardless of the consequences, not just for how much cash can I get in as short a time as possible.

It's never going to happen in my lifetime tho, Shame.

[EnglishJohn]

and of course NO military personal has been charged with the slaughter of 90+ peaceful protestors taking refuge in a temple compound and throughout the protest areas. Remember, these protestors where fighting for the return of freedom and democracy and yet this yellow shirt backed fascist junta is witch hunting and scape goats they can get their hands on. The reason these suspects have full face masks on is because they have just been "interrogated" by the military (the ones wearing black with guns in the photo).

"NO military personal has been charged with the slaughter of 90+ peaceful protestors"

That might be because "90+ peaceful protesters" were not slaughtered.

Remember that these protesters were trying to over throw a democratic and legitimately formed government.

This is comedy, right? Legitimate government...what a crock of....

Why, have the court decisions so far all ruled that the protesters were shot by the army?

Why were all of the protesters shot dead unarmed?

You missed one : why was the DSI instructed that the men in black did not exist and must never be mentioned in any reports or subject to any investigation ?.

That alone is proof of guilt for me.

[The manic]

There has been that many anti government demonstrations. 2010 I believe was red shirt rally season. Correct me by all means. Was it not the defence of many a misguided fool on here that the army were ok in there over the top reaponse and killing 90+ people because the red shirts were using men dressed in black.

They were charged with carrying war weapon which included M79 grenade launchers, M16, AK 47 and HK 33 assault rifles into the capital, and used them against anti- government protesters gathering at the Democracy monument on April 10, 2010.

Have I just got this all mixed up and its me who is the misguided fool

The army didn't kill 90+ people. The red shirt militia killed some of them.

Is it an over the top response to go in armed the same as the armed protesters?

edit: but your highlighted point is most likely an editing mistake.

Yes the OP is correct. The disinformation campaign against the the democracy campaigners included the assertion that they used men dressed in black shirts to kill their own people and government forces. However, it was obvious that the black shirted assassin and sharp shooters were government forces, probably rangers who had been used in the past to massacre democracy protesters, including notoriously in 1976 when they burned students alive on the streets of Bangkok. We now know it was part of campaign of destabilisation and misinformation to make way for the coup. However, many people knew at the time what was happening. To this day the myth of red terror is being perpetrated even on this forum.

[whybother]

There has been that many anti government demonstrations. 2010 I believe was red shirt rally season. Correct me by all means. Was it not the defence of many a misguided fool on here that the army were ok in there over the top reaponse and killing 90+ people because the red shirts were using men dressed in black.

They were charged with carrying war weapon which included M79 grenade launchers, M16, AK 47 and HK 33 assault rifles into the capital, and used them against anti- government protesters gathering at the Democracy monument on April 10, 2010.

Have I just got this all mixed up and its me who is the misguided fool

The army didn't kill 90+ people. The red shirt militia killed some of them.

Is it an over the top response to go in armed the same as the armed protesters?

edit: but your highlighted point is most likely an editing mistake.

Yes the OP is correct. The disinformation campaign against the the democracy campaigners included the assertion that they used men dressed in black shirts to kill their own people and government forces. However, it was obvious that the black shirted assassin and sharp shooters were government forces, probably rangers who had been used in the past to massacre democracy protesters, including notoriously in 1976 when they burned students alive on the streets of Bangkok. We now know it was part of campaign of destabilisation and misinformation to make way for the coup. However, many people knew at the time what was happening. To this day the myth of red terror is being perpetrated even on this forum.

It's quite likely that they were ex-army (or even current army) working for the red shirts, especially given Seh Daeng's involvement.

[mikemac]

Yesterday a poster posted a link to a Washington Times article "Thai Government freezes assets of suspected backers of the Red Shirts", apparently to prove the Red Shirts were not bankrolled by Thaksin Shinawatra.

I had a good read of the article last night and wondered why anyone would use this article as proof that other "parties" were the financial backers, and not Thaksin.

There is a blacklist of names and companies who are suspected backers.

Part of the article included -

"Featured on the blacklist is the former wife of Thaksin Shinawatra, the exiled former prime minister who was toppled in a bloodless coup in 2006 and subsequently convicted in absentia of corruption.

According to the blacklist:

• Pojaman Damapong, Thaksin’s former wife, withdrew 54 million baht ($1.6 million) between September and May.

• Thaksin’s and Mrs. Pojaman’s son, Panthongtae Shinawatra, and their unmarried daughter Pinthongta Shinawatra withdrew a combined total of nearly 11 billion baht ($330 million).

The blacklist notes withdrawals by more than a dozen politicians who are perceived as having supported Thaksin. Among them, the largest appear to have been made by Sudarat Keyuraphan, a former executive of Thaksin’s political party."

"The blacklist also identifies seven Red Shirt leaders who deposited large sums of money into their own accounts between September and May, but it says the information about the deposits is “not available.” Three of those Red Shirt leaders were very outspoken during the protests: Veera Musikhapong, Kwanchai Praipana and Weng Tojirakarn."

I Googled some of the 13 companies listed and guess what, they are part of the Shin Group.

So thanks to that poster, as I am even more convinced now who backed the terrorism in 2010.

[whybother]

Yes the OP is correct. The disinformation campaign against the the democracy campaigners included the assertion that they used men dressed in black shirts to kill their own people and government forces. However, it was obvious that the black shirted assassin and sharp shooters were government forces, probably rangers who had been used in the past to massacre democracy protesters, including notoriously in 1976 when they burned students alive on the streets of Bangkok. We now know it was part of campaign of destabilisation and misinformation to make way for the coup. However, many people knew at the time what was happening. To this day the myth of red terror is being perpetrated even on this forum.

It's quite likely that they were ex-army (or even current army) working for the red shirts, especially given Seh Daeng's involvement.

fixing up the quotes so it's readable.

[jayboy]

Yesterday a poster posted a link to a Washington Times article "Thai Government freezes assets of suspected backers of the Red Shirts", apparently to prove the Red Shirts were not bankrolled by Thaksin Shinawatra.

I had a good read of the article last night and wondered why anyone would use this article as proof that other "parties" were the financial backers, and not Thaksin.

There is a blacklist of names and companies who are suspected backers.

Part of the article included -

"Featured on the blacklist is the former wife of Thaksin Shinawatra, the exiled former prime minister who was toppled in a bloodless coup in 2006 and subsequently convicted in absentia of corruption.

According to the blacklist:

• Pojaman Damapong, Thaksin’s former wife, withdrew 54 million baht ($1.6 million) between September and May.

• Thaksin’s and Mrs. Pojaman’s son, Panthongtae Shinawatra, and their unmarried daughter Pinthongta Shinawatra withdrew a combined total of nearly 11 billion baht ($330 million).

The blacklist notes withdrawals by more than a dozen politicians who are perceived as having supported Thaksin. Among them, the largest appear to have been made by Sudarat Keyuraphan, a former executive of Thaksin’s political party."

"The blacklist also identifies seven Red Shirt leaders who deposited large sums of money into their own accounts between September and May, but it says the information about the deposits is “not available.” Three of those Red Shirt leaders were very outspoken during the protests: Veera Musikhapong, Kwanchai Praipana and Weng Tojirakarn."

I Googled some of the 13 companies listed and guess what, they are part of the Shin Group.

So thanks to that poster, as I am even more convinced now who backed the terrorism in 2010.

Wow Mikey you are really something special! The finest lawyers, accountants and investigators Abhisit & Suthep could buy couldn't pin anything on any of those people you quoted, but you Mikey the super sleuth have cracked it. Quick ring up your buddy General Dufus & tell him that you've uncovered the backers.

Ignore him.He doesn't really understand any of this and his childish posts indicates his forensic skills are rudimentary.By his own admission he gets his information from his wife's friends.Not to be taken seriously- though his simple minded posts will no doubt continue.

But it is frustrating because there is a genuine debate to be had on the MIB.I take the view that There was an armed redshirt element and the reputable reports such as that of HRW confirm this.Other details are obscure and the forthcoming trial will be fascinating.

I wish there was a way to block the nonsense from all sides but sadly that seems impossible.

[AleG]

There has been that many anti government demonstrations. 2010 I believe was red shirt rally season. Correct me by all means. Was it not the defence of many a misguided fool on here that the army were ok in there over the top reaponse and killing 90+ people because the red shirts were using men dressed in black.

They were charged with carrying war weapon which included M79 grenade launchers, M16, AK 47 and HK 33 assault rifles into the capital, and used them against anti- government protesters gathering at the Democracy monument on April 10, 2010.

Have I just got this all mixed up and its me who is the misguided fool

The army didn't kill 90+ people. The red shirt militia killed some of them.

Is it an over the top response to go in armed the same as the armed protesters?

edit: but your highlighted point is most likely an editing mistake.

Yes the OP is correct. The disinformation campaign against the the democracy campaigners included the assertion that they used men dressed in black shirts to kill their own people and government forces. However, it was obvious that the black shirted assassin and sharp shooters were government forces, probably rangers who had been used in the past to massacre democracy protesters, including notoriously in 1976 when they burned students alive on the streets of Bangkok. We now know it was part of campaign of destabilisation and misinformation to make way for the coup. However, many people knew at the time what was happening. To this day the myth of red terror is being perpetrated even on this forum.

OK, that's the fantasy land version, back in the Real World, the terrorists that had been arrested for attacks against anti PTP protesters were linked to the Red Shirt movement, for example this pair that murdered two little children using weapons from a UDD cache found in Samut Sakhon.

By the way, here's an assembly of Red Shirt leaders cheering and celebrating those murders:

Now, accept reality or stop posting lies.

[tbthailand]

Yesterday a poster posted a link to a Washington Times article "Thai Government freezes assets of suspected backers of the Red Shirts", apparently to prove the Red Shirts were not bankrolled by Thaksin Shinawatra.

I had a good read of the article last night and wondered why anyone would use this article as proof that other "parties" were the financial backers, and not Thaksin.

There is a blacklist of names and companies who are suspected backers.

Part of the article included -

"Featured on the blacklist is the former wife of Thaksin Shinawatra, the exiled former prime minister who was toppled in a bloodless coup in 2006 and subsequently convicted in absentia of corruption.

According to the blacklist:

• Pojaman Damapong, Thaksin’s former wife, withdrew 54 million baht ($1.6 million) between September and May.

• Thaksin’s and Mrs. Pojaman’s son, Panthongtae Shinawatra, and their unmarried daughter Pinthongta Shinawatra withdrew a combined total of nearly 11 billion baht ($330 million).

The blacklist notes withdrawals by more than a dozen politicians who are perceived as having supported Thaksin. Among them, the largest appear to have been made by Sudarat Keyuraphan, a former executive of Thaksin’s political party."

"The blacklist also identifies seven Red Shirt leaders who deposited large sums of money into their own accounts between September and May, but it says the information about the deposits is “not available.” Three of those Red Shirt leaders were very outspoken during the protests: Veera Musikhapong, Kwanchai Praipana and Weng Tojirakarn."

I Googled some of the 13 companies listed and guess what, they are part of the Shin Group.

So thanks to that poster, as I am even more convinced now who backed the terrorism in 2010.

Wow Mikey you are really something special! The finest lawyers, accountants and investigators Abhisit & Suthep could buy couldn't pin anything on any of those people you quoted, but you Mikey the super sleuth have cracked it. Quick ring up your buddy General Dufus & tell him that you've uncovered the backers.

Ignore him.He doesn't really understand any of this and his childish posts indicates his forensic skills are rudimentary.By his own admission he gets his information from his wife's friends.Not to be taken seriously- though his simple minded posts will no doubt continue.

But it is frustrating because there is a genuine debate to be had on the MIB.I take the view that There was an armed redshirt element and the reputable reports such as that of HRW confirm this.Other details are obscure and the forthcoming trial will be fascinating.

I wish there was a way to block the nonsense from all sides but sadly that seems impossible.

regarding man in black / armed elements among the red shirt 2010 protesters, there are reporters who were out there every day and they know that there were armed elements in the protests. They also understood that the violence between protesters and government forces had been escalating for years. They also noted that the AV government had used extreme force in the years before while trying to not let it get linked to the government. (Suthep's "Blue Shirts").

Given all of this, it was not surprising to the reporters in the field that there were higher and higher levels of violence.

More recently, although applicable throughout the recent conflicts, one Thai observer noted that when societies have differences, there are 2 ways to resolve them: talking or fighting. He follows with the fact that the LM laws - used as a political persecution tool - prohibit discussion of the most basic political points in Thailand. Given that Thais are not able to openly discuss their differences, it leaves only the second option. In my opinion, his point applies very well to 2014 & 2010.

As for the forthcoming trial, under the current conditions, I do not expect honest information to come out. Under the best of conditions, the MIB are a politicized topic. Under martial law and the 'NCPO', it seems unlikely to me that it will be as illuminating as you are expecting.

But I am willing to wait.