Gasahol.. constant problems

[eeeya]

So again our fuel system is buggered and at the mechanics again.

anyone else having problems with gasahol? The car only uses gasahol 95 and is used constantly so i cant see it being a separation issue. Also it gets filled at big fuel stations only and varied locations.

Is it worth using benzine only?

Thoughts please.

[seedy]

What year, make, model of car ? What engine ? FI or carb ?

[IMHO]

As a rule of thumb, if the car is pre-2005 the fuel system has not been designed to cope with Ethanol. Unless you replaced all hoses, seals, pumps, filters etc with ones that can tolerate Ethanol, yes, you should use benzene.

[KhunBENQ]

We have an 11 year old Toyota Vios which is fueled with benzene only.

Toyota was explicitely stating that they can not recommend gasohol (garantuee is far over anyway).

I did not want to take the risk and insisted that the family uses benzene (which was quite hard at almost 50 Baht some months ago).

I have a newer (4 year old) Maza using E10 or E20 only. Of course no problems. It is explicitely designed for E20.

Scooter, Honda Click, 4 years old. Its designed for E10. Using E10. No problem.

On the other hand: so many Thais seem to drive with old cars and use whatever is offered at the pump (gasohol 91/95).

Maybe the slogan is: repair is cheap

[eeeya]

The car is a 2006 Mercedes 180 Kompressor. Thai assembled not grey market. Done about 80,000ks goes into the Merc mechanic about every 6 months with fuel system problems and comes back with a bag full of replaced parts.

I don't think the mechanic is the issue because it used to go to an authorized Benz dealer for servicing but they were hopeless so now we use a regular Benz mechanic (far cheaper and better service).

[merijn]

My 7 year old Camry only uses Gasohol 91 without any problems.

[WarpSpeed]

As a rule of thumb, if the car is pre-2005 the fuel system has not been designed to cope with Ethanol. Unless you replaced all hoses, seals, pumps, filters etc with ones that can tolerate Ethanol, yes, you should use benzene.

Really IMHO you think that recently? I figured around 2000 model years. Gasahol in the world market has been around for easily over 30 years now just not as widely as now.

[manarak]

The car is a 2006 Mercedes 180 Kompressor. Thai assembled not grey market. Done about 80,000ks goes into the Merc mechanic about every 6 months with fuel system problems and comes back with a bag full of replaced parts.

I don't think the mechanic is the issue because it used to go to an authorized Benz dealer for servicing but they were hopeless so now we use a regular Benz mechanic (far cheaper and better service).

huh?

a 2006 Merc shouldn't go to the mech that often, and after 8 years and 80k (what? only 10.000 Km a year?) at most a couple of pieces should have been replaced, normally none !!

[IMHO]

As a rule of thumb, if the car is pre-2005 the fuel system has not been designed to cope with Ethanol. Unless you replaced all hoses, seals, pumps, filters etc with ones that can tolerate Ethanol, yes, you should use benzene.

Really IMHO you think that recently? I figured around 2000 model years. Gasahol in the world market has been around for easily over 30 years now just not as widely as now.

Some Thai assembled cars were designed for gasohol since 2003, but it's not until 2005 that it was supported in all models (and had tax breaks). If your car is pre-2005, you need to check with the manufacturer as to whether it can drink the stuff.

[seedy]

The replaced parts - is this mostly parts like o- rings, fuel hose, or parts containing them ?

If nitrile - or its equivalent - is not used the alcohol can attack the rubber.

Not enuf info so far to make any suggestion.

[WarpSpeed]

As a rule of thumb, if the car is pre-2005 the fuel system has not been designed to cope with Ethanol. Unless you replaced all hoses, seals, pumps, filters etc with ones that can tolerate Ethanol, yes, you should use benzene.

Really IMHO you think that recently? I figured around 2000 model years. Gasahol in the world market has been around for easily over 30 years now just not as widely as now.

Some Thai assembled cars were designed for gasohol since 2003, but it's not until 2005 that it was supported in all models (and had tax breaks). If your car is pre-2005, you need to check with the manufacturer as to whether it can drink the stuff.

Yeah but imports? Which is what was mostly around pre-2003 and his is a Merc? Meaning that most of them came from countries already well into gasohol, especially Europe. It'd almost be a step backward for them to manufacture a car not compatible with gasohol.

[IMHO]

As a rule of thumb, if the car is pre-2005 the fuel system has not been designed to cope with Ethanol. Unless you replaced all hoses, seals, pumps, filters etc with ones that can tolerate Ethanol, yes, you should use benzene.

Really IMHO you think that recently? I figured around 2000 model years. Gasahol in the world market has been around for easily over 30 years now just not as widely as now.

Some Thai assembled cars were designed for gasohol since 2003, but it's not until 2005 that it was supported in all models (and had tax breaks). If your car is pre-2005, you need to check with the manufacturer as to whether it can drink the stuff.

Yeah but imports? Which is what was mostly around pre-2003 and his is a Merc? Meaning that most of them came from countries already well into gasohol, especially Europe. It'd almost be a step backward for them to manufacture a car not compatible with gasohol.

Impossible to generalise. Many of them were 'localised' for the Thai market, even though assembled offshore. In all cases, before 2005 the manufacturer should be consulted.

[lj cm]

Try running only on benzene; if you then don't have any problem, then the gasohol is the cause!?.

I had problem with the fuel system on my year 2000 Benz when running on gasohol.

I solved it by converting to LPG and only use benzene.

[WarpSpeed]

In the end a Benz owner should not be so reluctant to use the better gas anyway. Higher octane, with less blended fuel is never a bad thing, especially for a turbo.

[Rdrokit]

The problem with gasohol is it goes bad if not used. So if you are going to a gas station that does not do a lot of business their gas may be stale. Also if you fill up your tank and do not drive much than the fuel will go bad (get stale). Just fill the tank to half instead of full if you do not drive a lot. I had my Cerfiro for 18 years and exclusively used gasohol 95 and never had a fuel system problem.

[BSJ]

You say the independent mechanic is OK...but what if he is fitting parts not up to standard?

[seedy]

The problem with gasohol is it goes bad if not used.

My car and both bikes sit for 6 months a year. Filled with gasahol 95, with Max 44 to prevent phase separation and Stabil added, with a healthy dose of fuel injector cleaner.

Return and drive them away. Mileage approx 5% lower until old fuel burned, then back to normal.

Two vehicles are FI and the HD has a Mikuni.

[WarpSpeed]

^Yes, must have Stabil or similar added, that is the key.

Edited January 10, 2015 by WarpSpeed

[thailandusauk]

The car is a 2006 Mercedes 180 Kompressor. Thai assembled not grey market. Done about 80,000ks goes into the Merc mechanic about every 6 months with fuel system problems and comes back with a bag full of replaced parts.

I don't think the mechanic is the issue because it used to go to an authorized Benz dealer for servicing but they were hopeless so now we use a regular Benz mechanic (far cheaper and better service).

Hello,

Can we see a list of part changed and prices ?

Thank you.

[khunano]

As a rule of thumb, if the car is pre-2005 the fuel system has not been designed to cope with Ethanol. Unless you replaced all hoses, seals, pumps, filters etc with ones that can tolerate Ethanol, yes, you should use benzene.

Really IMHO you think that recently? I figured around 2000 model years. Gasahol in the world market has been around for easily over 30 years now just not as widely as now.

Before changing from benzene to Gasohol 95 I asked the mechanic at my Nissan dealer garage whether it would be OK to do so with my Nissan Sunny 2004 model, which he confirmed. I also checked with a certified car mechanic from my home country in Europe and he told me that cars manufactured from around mid nineties could be run on Gasohol. My Nissan runs without any problems and has over 220'000 KM on the clock, half of them probably done on Gasohol.

[Rv Hawee]

It's pretty strange. Our 1997 Honda City is running on 95 gasohol since 1998/99 and we never had problem with. The car have more than 300 000 km with this kind of oil.

We'd try once some 91 gasohol and the engine couldn't receive it. Since that we never retry and only use 95.

So I wonder if there isn't something really wrong with your engine. A mercedes should not have this kind of trouble, especially with Gasohol 95 ....

I only wonder if a E85 conversion kit to use E85/ E20 will be worth it , yes your car or mine, but i still couldn't fine any satisfactory information .... so until then 95 will do it.

[kovaltech]

The car is a 2006 Mercedes 180 Kompressor. Thai assembled not grey market. Done about 80,000ks goes into the Merc mechanic about every 6 months with fuel system problems and comes back with a bag full of replaced parts.

I don't think the mechanic is the issue because it used to go to an authorized Benz dealer for servicing but they were hopeless so now we use a regular Benz mechanic (far cheaper and better service).

the gasohol 95 is up to 20% of ethanol

almost any car can handle gasohol 91 (E10) with 10 % ethanol

in most cases its rubber parts that gets defective, benz should not have a problem with it. (oem parts)

China copy will have problems

so, what parts are getting defect ?

[Rdrokit]

the gasohol 95 is up to 20% of ethanol

almost any car can handle gasohol 91 (E10) with 10 % ethanol

in most cases its rubber parts that gets defective, benz should not have a problem with it. (oem parts)

China copy will have problems

so, what parts are getting defect ?

Not correct.

All of the gasohol on the market in Thailand today is E10, meaning that it is a mixture of 10% ethanol and 90% gasoline. The primary difference between gasohol 95 and gasohol 91 is that the 10% ethanol is mixed with 95 octane gasoline in the case of gasohol 95 and 91 octane gasoline in the case of gasohol 91.

[DekDaeng]

"All of the gasohol on the market in Thailand today is E10,"

What about E85?

[OMGImInPattaya]

As a rule of thumb, if the car is pre-2005 the fuel system has not been designed to cope with Ethanol. Unless you replaced all hoses, seals, pumps, filters etc with ones that can tolerate Ethanol, yes, you should use benzene.

Really IMHO you think that recently? I figured around 2000 model years. Gasahol in the world market has been around for easily over 30 years now just not as widely as now.

Agree. My 2000 Honda CRV runs a pip on gow-nung. When benzene basically went off the market in Thailand I basically didn't have a choice but did some research and found that even unmodified older cars can tolerate 10% ethanol fuels. It's when you get to 20% and above that you have to watch out.

Maybe something specific to that make or model.

[whiteman]

my 2013 c 250 Benze runs like a dream on 95 in 18 months driven 21,000k maybe your clock has been turned back and it has much higher mileage than shown so the engine maybe at fault . Do not think I take my Benze to any other service unless it was the reg Benze dealer it would stuff up your warranty

[rapom]

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The problem with gasohol is it goes bad if not used. So if you are going to a gas station that does not do a lot of business their gas may be stale. Also if you fill up your tank and do not drive much than the fuel will go bad (get stale). Just fill the tank to half instead of full if you do not drive a lot. I had my Cerfiro for 18 years and exclusively used gasohol 95 and never had a fuel system problem.

Your first sentence would possibly be correct, if in another country other than Thailand. Fuel separation can be caused by {rapid} extreme changes in air temperature. Day to night or season to season are some of the factors. But it usually takes long term non use. The alcohol separates from the gasoline, which then settles at the bottom of the tank. The alcohol will then absorb the moisture created by condensation, above the fuel level, on the inside of the tank. Leaving the tank half full, for a long extended period, would be the worst thing to do.

The problem with gasohol is it goes bad if not used.

My car and both bikes sit for 6 months a year. Filled with gasahol 95, with Max 44 to prevent phase separation and Stabil added, with a healthy dose of fuel injector cleaner.

Return and drive them away. Mileage approx 5% lower until old fuel burned, then back to normal.

Two vehicles are FI and the HD has a Mikuni.

I have a vehicle in the states, that had been in storage, since Sept 2009. Prior to putting in storage, I filled the gas tank, to the top, with Shell 93 octane gasoline. I then parked it, in a non climate controlled garage and removed the battery. In Oct 2014, prior to my coming back to Thailand, I decided to move it into a new garage I had built. Having used the original battery in another vehicle, I installed a new battery. I turned the key, to the on position to pressurize the fuel system and after a few seconds cranked it over. It started in under ten seconds. Rough idle at first, but was smooth, in less than a minute. Allowed engine to get to normal operating temperature and drove away. As to your lower fuel mileage, I suspect this was caused by all the additives, especially the fuel injector cleaner.

^Yes, must have Stabil or similar added, that is the key.

No, it depends on the length of time, how often your vehicle is used and the extreme changes in temperature, that the fuel will be exposed too.

[Rdrokit]

"All of the gasohol on the market in Thailand today is E10,"

What about E85?

E85 is an abbreviation for an ethanol fuel blend of 85% denatured ethanol fuel and 15% gasoline. Some of the newer cars can run E85 but not all.

[rapom]

"All of the gasohol on the market in Thailand today is E10,"

What about E85?

E85 is an abbreviation for an ethanol fuel blend of 85% denatured ethanol fuel and 15% gasoline. Some of the newer cars can run E85 but not all.

No! It 85% gasoline and 15% ethanol.

[Rdrokit]

"All of the gasohol on the market in Thailand today is E10,"

What about E85?

E85 is an abbreviation for an ethanol fuel blend of 85% denatured ethanol fuel and 15% gasoline. Some of the newer cars can run E85 but not all.

No! It 85% gasoline and 15% ethanol.

No it's not and can only be used in Flex Fuel Vehicles (FFV). You should do some reading on E85

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85