Gasahol.. constant problems

[rapom]

"All of the gasohol on the market in Thailand today is E10,"

What about E85?

E85 is an abbreviation for an ethanol fuel blend of 85% denatured ethanol fuel and 15% gasoline. Some of the newer cars can run E85 but not all.

No! It 85% gasoline and 15% ethanol.

No it's not and can only be used in Flex Fuel Vehicles (FFV). You should do some reading on E85

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85

OK

[seedy]

No! It 85% gasoline and 15% ethanol.

Google is your friend !

[bazza40]

Mercs are similar to grandfather's axe. That is, the head and handle get replaced several times. For example, you don't replace brake linings on a Merc - the entire brake assembly gets replaced, which is why Mercs ( and Beemers ) are so expensive to service.

Apart from the issue of plastics degradation in pre-2005 vehicles, the ethanol in the E10 and E20 fuels is miscible with water. Fuel left standing for several months will probably stratify in the tank, and engines don't run too well on water.

While I own a Toyota Vios, I have to say the Nissan 4-cylinders must be pretty good engines, because I've seen several examples in Thailand at 350,000 km plus still running.

Would like to own a Merc myself, but only if I could afford subsequent servicing.

[rmigo]

"All of the gasohol on the market in Thailand today is E10,"

What about E85?

E85 is an abbreviation for an ethanol fuel blend of 85% denatured ethanol fuel and 15% gasoline. Some of the newer cars can run E85 but not all.

No! It 85% gasoline and 15% ethanol.

No it's not and can only be used in Flex Fuel Vehicles (FFV). You should do some reading on E85

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85

OK

[eeeya]

The car is a 2006 Mercedes 180 Kompressor. Thai assembled not grey market. Done about 80,000ks goes into the Merc mechanic about every 6 months with fuel system problems and comes back with a bag full of replaced parts.

I don't think the mechanic is the issue because it used to go to an authorized Benz dealer for servicing but they were hopeless so now we use a regular Benz mechanic (far cheaper and better service).

Hello,

Can we see a list of part changed and prices ?

Thank you.

Sorry, im offshore at the moment and its still at the shop.. but shall do when I return.

>>And to the other poster claiming the clock had been wound back. Ive owned it since new from the Mercedes dealer. it gets driven 30kms a day round trip to work.. Not much else. hence the 80,000ks on the clock.

[WarpSpeed]

As a rule of thumb, if the car is pre-2005 the fuel system has not been designed to cope with Ethanol. Unless you replaced all hoses, seals, pumps, filters etc with ones that can tolerate Ethanol, yes, you should use benzene.

Really IMHO you think that recently? I figured around 2000 model years. Gasahol in the world market has been around for easily over 30 years now just not as widely as now.

Before changing from benzene to Gasohol 95 I asked the mechanic at my Nissan dealer garage whether it would be OK to do so with my Nissan Sunny 2004 model, which he confirmed. I also checked with a certified car mechanic from my home country in Europe and he told me that cars manufactured from around mid nineties could be run on Gasohol. My Nissan runs without any problems and has over 220'000 KM on the clock, half of them probably done on Gasohol.

For the most part I agree in terms of the rest of the world, but in terms of Thailand my impression was that most of the models in Thailand were transitioned around 2000, but certainly they could have been earlier. I really don't see any reason that manufacturers would have one formula for models just because of their sales market at least in the case of fuel compatibility, there are other reasons like emissions control but it would be more expensive to use older tech. then to change all models regardless of market, so I should think that change was made for the most part in the Thai market around late 90's into 2000. My 97 SEAT had no issues except it knocked something fierce due to a compromise in timing required so it would run smoothly on both LP and petrol. I used petrol for better lubrication of the top end and adjusted my timing and it ran perfectly with virtually no knock and a slight difference in power between the 2, stronger on petrol. In this case a gasohol built vehicle has no issue with regular petrol but not the case in reverse so no loss or likely cost in changing over the tech..

[WarpSpeed]

It's pretty strange. Our 1997 Honda City is running on 95 gasohol since 1998/99 and we never had problem with. The car have more than 300 000 km with this kind of oil.

We'd try once some 91 gasohol and the engine couldn't receive it. Since that we never retry and only use 95.

So I wonder if there isn't something really wrong with your engine. A mercedes should not have this kind of trouble, especially with Gasohol 95 ....

I only wonder if a E85 conversion kit to use E85/ E20 will be worth it , yes your car or mine, but i still couldn't fine any satisfactory information .... so until then 95 will do it.

Something I feel is being overlooked here is the 2011 floods, I find it hard to believe that masses of underground fuel tanks were not contaminated with that water in many cases. The tanks are not really designed to be so water proof that they can be submerged for really long periods of time like masses were. Now, here in the states as I'm sure they have elsewhere we have quality inspections to consistently check the fuel quality and especially for water and such which regularly infiltrates underground tanks. All currently have special venting systems to keep them from evaporating into the atmosphere and it is not installed very high above ground level so given the height of much of the flood waters it's more then conceivable that many were contaminated and to my knowledge I never saw ANY sort of checks being done immediately after the floods, the stations just cleaned up for the most part and began selling gas once again. Contamination into your car is magnified if tanks are low on fuel. Actually thinking about it now, I'm surprised, looking back that there wasn't masses of tanks floating and popping up from the ground during those floods, that's happened with coffins believe it or not, in floods that were much more brief then that one with far less long term submersion.

It is not impossible that even now in 2015, (but most of what were speaking about was cumulative anyway and didn't happen over night), there could still be thousands of contaminated tanks that have never even been inspected as that would be a monumental task and cost, if it was ever even implemented in the first place? It is usually done at the cost of the company or station owner and well, easier and less expensive to just keep selling the public contaminated gasoline if not forced to do otherwise by some authority.......... Water would be especially problematic in gasohol since water breaks down and is absorbed by gasohol thereby potentially damaging engine parts.

Edited January 11, 2015 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

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The problem with gasohol is it goes bad if not used. So if you are going to a gas station that does not do a lot of business their gas may be stale. Also if you fill up your tank and do not drive much than the fuel will go bad (get stale). Just fill the tank to half instead of full if you do not drive a lot. I had my Cerfiro for 18 years and exclusively used gasohol 95 and never had a fuel system problem.

Your first sentence would possibly be correct, if in another country other than Thailand. Fuel separation can be caused by {rapid} extreme changes in air temperature. Day to night or season to season are some of the factors. But it usually takes long term non use. The alcohol separates from the gasoline, which then settles at the bottom of the tank. The alcohol will then absorb the moisture created by condensation, above the fuel level, on the inside of the tank. Leaving the tank half full, for a long extended period, would be the worst thing to do.

The problem with gasohol is it goes bad if not used.

My car and both bikes sit for 6 months a year. Filled with gasahol 95, with Max 44 to prevent phase separation and Stabil added, with a healthy dose of fuel injector cleaner.

Return and drive them away. Mileage approx 5% lower until old fuel burned, then back to normal.

Two vehicles are FI and the HD has a Mikuni.

I have a vehicle in the states, that had been in storage, since Sept 2009. Prior to putting in storage, I filled the gas tank, to the top, with Shell 93 octane gasoline. I then parked it, in a non climate controlled garage and removed the battery. In Oct 2014, prior to my coming back to Thailand, I decided to move it into a new garage I had built. Having used the original battery in another vehicle, I installed a new battery. I turned the key, to the on position to pressurize the fuel system and after a few seconds cranked it over. It started in under ten seconds. Rough idle at first, but was smooth, in less than a minute. Allowed engine to get to normal operating temperature and drove away. As to your lower fuel mileage, I suspect this was caused by all the additives, especially the fuel injector cleaner.

^Yes, must have Stabil or similar added, that is the key.

No, it depends on the length of time, how often your vehicle is used and the extreme changes in temperature, that the fuel will be exposed too.

Nope, since you have no way of determining how old or well the gas is kept before you purchase it using an occasional fuel stabilizer, especially if not using the car for a period of time is the only sensible way to avoid problems, and it only costs about $2 a bottle so senseless not to.

[WarpSpeed]

"All of the gasohol on the market in Thailand today is E10,"

What about E85?

E85 is an abbreviation for an ethanol fuel blend of 85% denatured ethanol fuel and 15% gasoline. Some of the newer cars can run E85 but not all.

No! It 85% gasoline and 15% ethanol.

BUZZZ!!!!!! Wrong answer!! You do not win the new car!!!

[WarpSpeed]

Mercs are similar to grandfather's axe. That is, the head and handle get replaced several times. For example, you don't replace brake linings on a Merc - the entire brake assembly gets replaced, which is why Mercs ( and Beemers ) are so expensive to service.

Apart from the issue of plastics degradation in pre-2005 vehicles, the ethanol in the E10 and E20 fuels is miscible with water. Fuel left standing for several months will probably stratify in the tank, and engines don't run too well on water.

While I own a Toyota Vios, I have to say the Nissan 4-cylinders must be pretty good engines, because I've seen several examples in Thailand at 350,000 km plus still running.

Would like to own a Merc myself, but only if I could afford subsequent servicing.

Agree, hence my post earlier about the flood contamination..I believe it is the crux of this issue. Even Chinese parts are mostly made to OEM specs, there is no savings to be had by using rubber instead of an alternative and many OEM parts are manufactured in China these days, I buy them regularly for my older VW GTI Vr6 here in the states as VW has a massive market in China and I've had no complaints or issues with the quality..

[KonaRain]

Try 100% like in Brazil..

Correct?

Are cars still containing plastic parts?

Hybrid/Thai assembly..?

[Dean470]

Gasahol is a big problem.. I made a mistake and put E85 in my Honda Wave M'cycle.

Totally screwed up the carburetor. I've drained the carb sevral times and always get

small pieces of trash. Carb totally blocks at times.

Alcohol is corrosive while normal petrol is non-corrosive and no problem.

[Ace of Pop]

Theres allways one.

[Anon999]

The problem with gasohol is it goes bad if not used. So if you are going to a gas station that does not do a lot of business their gas may be stale. Also if you fill up your tank and do not drive much than the fuel will go bad (get stale). Just fill the tank to half instead of full if you do not drive a lot. I had my Cerfiro for 18 years and exclusively used gasohol 95 and never had a fuel system problem.

I have a mid 2006 Mitsu Lancer Ralliart that has completed 93,000 kms = 11,000 kms/yr. Originally run on 95 benzine until it was phased out in this area some years ago and I always fill the tank up to the brim. Never had a problem either with the fuel system or anything else for that matter. Just regular dealer services.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Anon999

[seedy]

As to your lower fuel mileage, I suspect this was caused by all the additives, especially the fuel injector cleaner.

200ml of additives in 70 liters of fuel is 0.286% - doubtful if this is the cause.

The evaporation of volitile compounds - while small - seems more likely.

And old age !

[OMGImInPattaya]

Gasahol is a big problem.. I made a mistake and put E85 in my Honda Wave M'cycle.

Totally screwed up the carburetor. I've drained the carb sevral times and always get

small pieces of trash. Carb totally blocks at times.

Alcohol is corrosive while normal petrol is non-corrosive and no problem.

Heaven knows I'm no mechanic but even I know not to put in an 85% alcohol fuel in an unmodified engine. What were you trying to do, save a few baht?

[Tapster]

Please will someone clarify two things for me here:

1. Is the word benzine/benzene used in Thailand instead of gasoline/petrol. I'm finding this discussion confusing as my experience of Benzene is as an organic chemical solvent. More confusingly, there is a few % Benzene in gasoline!
   
   
2. Is the fuel sold at normal petrol stations in Thailand gasoline? I've just moved from South Africa where the numbers 93 and 95 (those prevalent in South Africa) referred to the octane rating of petrol/gasoline. There was never any mention in South Africa of this fuel containing any ethanol. Does petrol pump fuel in Thailand contain ethanol?

Thanks

[OMGImInPattaya]

Please will someone clarify two things for me here:

• Is the word benzine/benzene used in Thailand instead of gasoline/petrol. I'm finding this discussion confusing as my experience of Benzene is as an organic chemical solvent. More confusingly, there is a few % Benzene in gasoline!

• Is the fuel sold at normal petrol stations in Thailand gasoline? I've just moved from South Africa where the numbers 93 and 95 (those prevalent in South Africa) referred to the octane rating of petrol/gasoline. There was never any mention in South Africa of this fuel containing any ethanol. Does petrol pump fuel in Thailand contain ethanol?

Thanks

Coming from America, where we speak English, I too was a bit confused at first. As to your first question, pure gasoline is called "benzene" in Thailand. Fuel pumps with the numbers 91 and 95 on them are gasohol (10% ethanol gasoline blends) with octane ratings of 91 and 95. Pure benzene/gasoline pumps are pretty rare in Thailand now. E85 pumps are 85% ethanol fuel.

[Ace of Pop]

A very funny "Sort of English" though,about like my English spellinz.

[WarpSpeed]

^^ Not all pumps are gasohol with 95 as I recall, if you see 2 pumps with 95, mostly at Exxon I believe or maybe it was Mobil when I left, they had both and to differentiate you must say "benzine" with your order to get pure gasoline, but easy enough to tell as the price was unquestionably higher for the "benzine".

Edited January 13, 2015 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

A very funny "Sort of English" though,about like my English spellinz.

Excuse me, you're the last person qualified to make that judgement.

[Ace of Pop]

Well. we Portuguese havent knakerd up your form of English like Mexican, Africans and Indian New York Cab drivers have have.!! Boston/New England seems the nearest to English to my ears. Gas Stations in the U.S. sell Petrol not Gas by the way. You buy Gas from Camping Stores for ones Winnebago.

[WarpSpeed]

See there ya go knackering it up again, "gas" has always been short for gasoline, we call the other "gas" "LP" which is even shorter.. Geezz these foreigners!! BTW Basten and New England does not speak English They speak more like Canadian English and we all know where that originated, though they speak more and more like us almost daily, it used to be a lot easier to hear their accent then it is these days.. It has gotten it's fair share of battering by other foreign influences but the Mexicans think we should be habla Espanol anyway.

[Langeman]

The car is a 2006 Mercedes 180 Kompressor. Thai assembled not grey market. Done about 80,000ks goes into the Merc mechanic about every 6 months with fuel system problems and comes back with a bag full of replaced parts.

I don't think the mechanic is the issue because it used to go to an authorized Benz dealer for servicing but they were hopeless so now we use a regular Benz mechanic (far cheaper and better service).

You most use onley bensin 95 for this energi ( Yellow) not in all station

[Tapster]

@OMGIIP

Erm, OK then....................but the pumps don't seem to say gasohol.

Why nat?

However, 10% ethanol seems to be OK for most petrol 4-stroke engines, so maybe I should just forget it?

Cheers

[OMGImInPattaya]

@OMGIIP

Erm, OK then....................but the pumps don't seem to say gasohol.

Why nat?

However, 10% ethanol seems to be OK for most petrol 4-stroke engines, so maybe I should just forget it?

Cheers

Yep...up to 10% ethanol is fine, even for old unmodified cars. No need to do any modifications to the fuel system, lines, or gaskets/rubbers. Anything higher, however, requires a "flex-fuel" ready engine.