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What treatment/antibiotics for prostate stones/UTI?


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This is a follow-up to my previous posts about my prostate problems. I'm posting again because I'm back in Thailand after 18 months in Laos, and therefore have easier access to blood tests, competent doctors, medicines etc.

 

Here's a brief history of the problem:

I have mild BPH for many years, but can function fine with a daily pill of Alfuzosin.  Because of the BPH, my PSA is raised somewhat, typically about 6.0, but steady

 

About 2 years ago, when living on Phangan Island, a PSA test showed that my PSA had increased to about 15.  So I went and had an MRI prostate scan at Bumrungrad which showed 2 shadow lumps within my prostate.  The hospital suggested a biopsy to investigate further, but due to some insurance problems I was forced to return to the UK for further treatment.

 

A biopsy was performed (24 samples), and none were positive for cancer.  The doctor suggested that the lumps were beign calcium stones.  Importantly, myPSA value was raised above my normal 6.0 due to long-term UTIs.  The doctor in the UK had delayed my biopsy for almost 2 months while he tried different antibiotics to eliminate the infection, but he was unable to achieve this!  The UTI remained.... So he went ahead with the biopsy and the results were all good.  I returned to Laos and the UTI has remained ever since.

 

Now I'm back in Thailand, I just had a blood/urine test.  All looks good with (of course) the exception of my UTI, with a high level of white blood cells in my urine.

 

I do not think it is a good idea just to let these prostate infections continue.  I'm wondering if I should follow a path of further investigation to identify exactly what bacteria is present in my urine.  I recall that my UK doctor said that it was the common E.Coli.

 

To confirm this, is there a urine bacterial test that can be done?  My blood/urine test was performed today by Life Sciences (Pattaya), whom I have used for many years.  Perhaps I'll go back with my urine results and ask if they can identify in detail what bacteria is present.

 

I followed the advice of posters (Xylophone and others), who previously suggested specific antibiotics to take.  Alas, none of them cleared up my long-term UTI 🙂

 

The UTI does not cause me too many problems, but I simply feel that it's not healthy for me to have this UTI on a continual basis.

 

So, any suggestions as to a step-by-step process to eliminate this UTI once and for all?  Thanks.

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Posted (edited)

I developed a UTI following a catheter . Urine sample tests were positive for an unspecified bacteria.Oral antibiotics did not seem to touch it so I was given an outpatient intravenous antibiotic at a local Govt. Hospital. Was cleared  two days later.

Do not recall what antibiotic but yes there is a urine test that takes not long. ( 30 minutes )Very surprised you have not been given one already .

Edited by 0ffshore360
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Chronis UTI in conjuction with Prostatis is a bitch. You need Western specialists (took 18-24 months to fix me).

 

First suggestion: have any bed teeth you may have pulled and then do a deep, intense cleaning.

The antibiotic that cleaned me out was Bactrim. But I did my teeth first.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, simon43 said:

^^^ My teeth are fine.  What is this deep intense cleaning that you speak about?

Descaling, whatever they call it, novacaine ya up and start cleaing that under the gum stuff away.

 

How do you know your teeth arent fine until you have them look. 

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1 minute ago, Yagoda said:

Descaling, whatever they call it, novacaine ya up and start cleaing that under the gum stuff away.

 

How do you know your teeth arent fine until you have them look. 

Because I go to the dentist regularly for teeth cleaning and check-up 🙂

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1 minute ago, simon43 said:

Because I go to the dentist regularly for teeth cleaning and check-up 🙂

Well fine then, guess you will just have to continue to suffer with your UTI. Mines gone. Its wonderful to be me. Let us know how it turns out.

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Well fine then, guess you will just have to continue to suffer with your UTI. Mines gone. Its wonderful to be me. Let us know how it turns out.

Such a useless response!  I replied honestly to your post and because my reply doesn't fit your narrative, you flounce... 🙂

 

Welcome to my ignore list.

 

Update for other posters:  My PSA result just arrived from the lab: 8.9.  Now on the face of things this might sound bad!  But it's down from the 12 - 15 value from 18 months ago.  My lab results indicate an UTI (as usual), and so I'm very happy that my PSA value is only slightly raised above my 'normal' value of 6.

 

The lab is currently checking the bacteria to see what it is.

 

By the way, I always consider Life Sciences to be good value for money.  A general blood test, PSA test and specific urine culture test costs 1,800 baht.

Edited by simon43
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21 hours ago, Sheryl said:

What you need is a urine culture with sensitivity, this will hopefully show what antibiotics the organism is sensitive to.

 

 

 

21 hours ago, simon43 said:

Such a useless response!  I replied honestly to your post and because my reply doesn't fit your narrative, you flounce... 🙂

 

Welcome to my ignore list.

 

Update for other posters:  My PSA result just arrived from the lab: 8.9.  Now on the face of things this might sound bad!  But it's down from the 12 - 15 value from 18 months ago.  My lab results indicate an UTI (as usual), and so I'm very happy that my PSA value is only slightly raised above my 'normal' value of 6.

 

The lab is currently checking the bacteria to see what it is.

 

By the way, I always consider Life Sciences to be good value for money.  A general blood test, PSA test and specific urine culture test costs 1,800 baht.

Whatever the doctor says do, do just that.   in addition, try 6 ounces of pure pomegranate juice every day, drink 2-3 cups of green or black tea - no sugars, no dairy milk, eat lots of tomatoes or tomato paste daily.  Some say this can help lower your psa numbers and help ward off cancers.  But those researchers say doing these inputs too strengthens the pharma treatments.  Just saying, no guarantees but I have read about the research on these and prostate cancers.  Daily videos on YouTube about health and food.

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23 hours ago, simon43 said:

This is a follow-up to my previous posts about my prostate problems. I'm posting again because I'm back in Thailand after 18 months in Laos, and therefore have easier access to blood tests, competent doctors, medicines etc.

 

Here's a brief history of the problem:

I have mild BPH for many years, but can function fine with a daily pill of Alfuzosin.  Because of the BPH, my PSA is raised somewhat, typically about 6.0, but steady

 

About 2 years ago, when living on Phangan Island, a PSA test showed that my PSA had increased to about 15.  So I went and had an MRI prostate scan at Bumrungrad which showed 2 shadow lumps within my prostate.  The hospital suggested a biopsy to investigate further, but due to some insurance problems I was forced to return to the UK for further treatment.

 

A biopsy was performed (24 samples), and none were positive for cancer.  The doctor suggested that the lumps were beign calcium stones.  Importantly, myPSA value was raised above my normal 6.0 due to long-term UTIs.  The doctor in the UK had delayed my biopsy for almost 2 months while he tried different antibiotics to eliminate the infection, but he was unable to achieve this!  The UTI remained.... So he went ahead with the biopsy and the results were all good.  I returned to Laos and the UTI has remained ever since.

 

Now I'm back in Thailand, I just had a blood/urine test.  All looks good with (of course) the exception of my UTI, with a high level of white blood cells in my urine.

 

I do not think it is a good idea just to let these prostate infections continue.  I'm wondering if I should follow a path of further investigation to identify exactly what bacteria is present in my urine.  I recall that my UK doctor said that it was the common E.Coli.

 

To confirm this, is there a urine bacterial test that can be done?  My blood/urine test was performed today by Life Sciences (Pattaya), whom I have used for many years.  Perhaps I'll go back with my urine results and ask if they can identify in detail what bacteria is present.

 

I followed the advice of posters (Xylophone and others), who previously suggested specific antibiotics to take.  Alas, none of them cleared up my long-term UTI 🙂

 

The UTI does not cause me too many problems, but I simply feel that it's not healthy for me to have this UTI on a continual basis.

 

So, any suggestions as to a step-by-step process to eliminate this UTI once and for all?  Thanks.

You're on the right way with bacterial screening.

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I have posted on this subject before.

Two years ago I was in a similar situation, I changed my diet, took mild exercise and within 3 months my problem eased after six months and, in consultation with my doctor, I stopped all medication. My health improved and, more importantly, my medical insurance premiums dropped almost 50%.

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21 hours ago, Presnock said:

 

Whatever the doctor says do, do just that.   in addition, try 6 ounces of pure pomegranate juice every day, drink 2-3 cups of green or black tea - no sugars, no dairy milk, eat lots of tomatoes or tomato paste daily.  Some say this can help lower your psa numbers and help ward off cancers.  But those researchers say doing these inputs too strengthens the pharma treatments.  Just saying, no guarantees but I have read about the research on these and prostate cancers.  Daily videos on YouTube about health and food.

If you are going to consume "lots" of tomatoes remove the skin first as the skin in particular contains a chemical that will cause inflammation in your body, mainly your joints! 

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6 hours ago, paul1804 said:

If you are going to consume "lots" of tomatoes remove the skin first as the skin in particular contains a chemical that will cause inflammation in your body, mainly your joints! 

that is why I take a tablespoon of tomato paste daily with breakfast.  Other lycogene sources (other than tomatoes include, carrots, pink guava, ) lycogene is from reddish colored veggies, but tomatoes have the most and instead of a lot of raw tomatoes or stewed tomatoes, etc, I find that the tomator paste is the best source for me.  there are a couple of best sellers out right now - available in the top book store near Siam mall area are two books on food research, the books by Dr. Willam Li a Harvard heart specialist, plus serveral other titles including researcher.  His books, one tells what food/plants can prevenet, and even cure cancers and other diseases, while the other describes the best foods to eat for living a healthy long life.  The researchers have already determined that all the diseases that kill people such as heart disease, diabetes, cancers, obesity, Alzheimer's, etc are all caused by the poor diets of people and I guess there are a small % by generic transmitted diseases too.  I recently bought both books and am amazed at how eating healthy can help one live a better  and longer life.  Good luck.

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On 6/6/2024 at 4:18 PM, Sheryl said:

What you need is a urine culture with sensitivity, this will hopefully show what antibiotics the organism is sensitive to.

 

 

Correct.

But if the infection is in the prostate,  a normal urin culture may be negative. 

In that case you should do a urin culture after a prostate massage.

 

2 doctors who do prostate massage:

https://www.bumrungrad.com/en/doctors/wadchara-pumpradit

 

https://www.bumrungrad.com/en/doctors/umaphorn-nuanthaisong

https://www.bangkokhospital.com/en/doctor/dr-umaphorn-nuanthaisong#appointment

https://www.sukumvithospital.com/doctorprofile.php?id=188&lang=en

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1 hour ago, Lorry said:

Correct.

But if the infection is in the prostate,  a normal urin culture may be negative. 

In that case you should do a urin culture after a prostate massage.

 

2 doctors who do prostate massage:

https://www.bumrungrad.com/en/doctors/wadchara-pumpradit

 

https://www.bumrungrad.com/en/doctors/umaphorn-nuanthaisong

https://www.bangkokhospital.com/en/doctor/dr-umaphorn-nuanthaisong#appointment

https://www.sukumvithospital.com/doctorprofile.php?id=188&lang=en

I guess you could get one of the massage ladies to do the prostate massage then head for the urine culture

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On 6/8/2024 at 5:50 PM, Presnock said:

that is why I take a tablespoon of tomato paste daily with breakfast.  Other lycogene sources (other than tomatoes include, carrots, pink guava, ) lycogene is from reddish colored veggies, but tomatoes have the most and instead of a lot of raw tomatoes or stewed tomatoes, etc, I find that the tomator paste is the best source for me.  there are a couple of best sellers out right now - available in the top book store near Siam mall area are two books on food research, the books by Dr. Willam Li a Harvard heart specialist, plus serveral other titles including researcher.  His books, one tells what food/plants can prevenet, and even cure cancers and other diseases, while the other describes the best foods to eat for living a healthy long life.  The researchers have already determined that all the diseases that kill people such as heart disease, diabetes, cancers, obesity, Alzheimer's, etc are all caused by the poor diets of people and I guess there are a small % by generic transmitted diseases too.  I recently bought both books and am amazed at how eating healthy can help one live a better  and longer life.  Good luck.

Yes very true about diet, hey I think you mean Lycopene!! 

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On 6/9/2024 at 1:12 AM, Lorry said:

Correct.

But if the infection is in the prostate,  a normal urin culture may be negative. 

In that case you should do a urin culture after a prostate massage.

 

2 doctors who do prostate massage:

https://www.bumrungrad.com/en/doctors/wadchara-pumpradit

 

https://www.bumrungrad.com/en/doctors/umaphorn-nuanthaisong

https://www.bangkokhospital.com/en/doctor/dr-umaphorn-nuanthaisong#appointment

https://www.sukumvithospital.com/doctorprofile.php?id=188&lang=en

Correct, and even if the culture shows a positive result and indicates which antibiotics the organism is sensitive to, should still take the advice of a urologist on treatment because antibiotics differ in their ability to penetrate the prostate, and the duration of treatment for prostatitis needs to be much longer than for a simple bladder infection.

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1 hour ago, paul1804 said:

Yes very true about diet, hey I think you mean Lycopene!! 

yessr, these less than nimble fingers still think the brain is in charge like when I was typing at a much younger age.  Yes lycopene from tomatoes.

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On 6/6/2024 at 4:18 PM, Sheryl said:

What you need is a urine culture with sensitivity, this will hopefully show what antibiotics the organism is sensitive to.

 

 

Right! And I just have the results which indicate that the bacterial infection is E.Coli ,but E.Coli with ESBL, which is resistant to certain antibiotics.  I recall that this is what the doctors found 18 months ago when I had UTI tests in the UK.

 

The results also indicate what antibiotics the culture is resistant to etc - I reproduce the result sheet below.

 

bacteria.jpg.48888e9a9eba84211f26dafcea1ae398.jpg

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20 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Right! And I just have the results which indicate that the bacterial infection is E.Coli ,but E.Coli with ESBL, which is resistant to certain antibiotics.  I recall that this is what the doctors found 18 months ago when I had UTI tests in the UK.

 

The results also indicate what antibiotics the culture is resistant to etc - I reproduce the result sheet below.

 

bacteria.jpg.48888e9a9eba84211f26dafcea1ae398.jpg

Good stuff Simon, and thank you for posting this, because it looks similar to the results I got a few years back when I had similar to you and the local urologist at Bangkok Phuket Hospital kept prescribing any old antibiotic he could think about, despite me asking him to get a culture because I was feeling very sick indeed, to get the very results which are published here.

 

Anyway as can be seen in your post, the Carbapenems would seem to be one of the most effective treatments for you, however they are not taken orally, but have to be given intravenously, so I visited the hospital here for 10 days on a daily basis (or was it 14 days?) to have the treatment and it cured the infection.

 

Good luck in whatever antibiotic you choose, however remember to discuss it with your doctor or urologist, so that you get the full lowdown on the treatment and effects thereof.

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15 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Good stuff Simon, and thank you for posting this, because it looks similar to the results I got a few years back when I had similar to you and the local urologist at Bangkok Phuket Hospital kept prescribing any old antibiotic he could think about, despite me asking him to get a culture because I was feeling very sick indeed, to get the very results which are published here.

 

Anyway as can be seen in your post, the Carbapenems would seem to be one of the most effective treatments for you, however they are not taken orally, but have to be given intravenously, so I visited the hospital here for 10 days on a daily basis (or was it 14 days?) to have the treatment and it cured the infection.

 

Good luck in whatever antibiotic you choose, however remember to discuss it with your doctor or urologist, so that you get the full lowdown on the treatment and effects thereof.

Thanks Xylophone.;  Yes, I'll take these results back to LifeSciences where I assume they have a competent doctor (they all wear white coats, but I don't think that they are selling ice-cream!).  As you say, it seems that I need a course of intravenous antibiotic injections to shift this bacteria which has taken up residence for quite a few years in my prostate/urinary tract. 

 

I hope they do not have squatter's rights...

 

 

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3 hours ago, simon43 said:

Thanks Xylophone.;  Yes, I'll take these results back to LifeSciences where I assume they have a competent doctor (they all wear white coats, but I don't think that they are selling ice-cream!).  As you say, it seems that I need a course of intravenous antibiotic injections to shift this bacteria which has taken up residence for quite a few years in my prostate/urinary tract. 

 

I hope they do not have squatter's rights...

 

 

Life Sciences is a just a  lab, they do not treat infections or other medical conditions and certainly will not have   what you need, which is a specialist in infectious diseases or urologist (probably the latter).  Those white coats were lab technologists/technicians, entirely different skill set from medical doctors.

 

Yes, none of the drugs to which it is sensitive are available as other than injection. Some are also very expensive but there is variability on that, as well as dosage schedule, so there is room to discuss with doctor a preference for once a day dosing so that infusions can be done by daily outpatient visits, and also cost implications.

 

In Pattaya area, and concerned about cost, I'd probably try Pattaya Memorial for this. Ask for an infectious disease specialist who speaks good English.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Life Sciences is a just a  lab, they do not treat infections or other medical conditions and certainly will not have   what you need, which is a specialist in infectious diseases or urologist (probably the latter).  Those white coats were lab technologists/technicians, entirely different skill set from medical doctors.

 

Yes, none of the drugs to which it is sensitive are available as other than injection. Some are also very expensive but there is variability on that, as well as dosage schedule, so there is room to discuss with doctor a preference for once a day dosing so that infusions can be done by daily outpatient visits, and also cost implications.

 

In Pattaya area, and concerned about cost, I'd probably try Pattaya Memorial for this. Ask for an infectious disease specialist who speaks good English.

 

 

Thanks - I note that Memorial has a Urology clinic - I'll pop over to them and see if they can help 🙂

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When I had it a urine sample for similar it showed nothing.  A semen sample then cultured showed the infection.  3 weeks of antibiotics and it was mostly gone, but seemed to linger for several months until 100%.

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Well, my trip this morning to the Urology clinic at Pattaya Memorial hospital didn't go well!  Note that my Thai language fluency is such that I'm able to discuss the medical details etc of my problem in Thai.  But in any case, the doctor whom I saw discussed in both Thai and English.

 

Unfortunately, he seemed to be of the "I am an important doctor and you know nothing" type!  He dismissed my history of BPH, prostate calcium stones (diagnosed at the UK hospital last year), MRI at Burumgrad, 24-needle biopsy, long-term UTI and recent urine antibiotic sensitivity test etc, and declared that I mostly likely had a blockage in my urethra and he was going to prescribe an oral antibiotic (which the culture results clearly showed was unlikely to work - he had a copy of these results in front of him).

 

At my polite insistence that a XXXpenem (XXX means there are several suitable antibiotics of the penem family) antibiotic course of injections seemed to be the best course of action, he said that this would probably clear up the UTI but that it would then return because I hadn't had the urethra obstruction removed...

 

He agreed to a course of 5 daily injections of XXXpenem.  Now I had checked the cost of this kind of drug and I know it's expensive.  But the hospital wanted to charge me $125 USD for each injection.....  That price doesn't tally with what Dr Google tells me 🙂

 

I don't want a diagnosis from the doctor - I've already had that.  I just want a competent medical person to administer the course of XXXpenem injectable antibiotic.

 

Can I buy this medicine over the counter?  If so, perhaps I could then go to Dr Olivier's clinic and have him administer it.

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