O-net Tests, Wasted Time And A Lower Level Of English Than Ten Years Ago?

[lostinisaan]

Hello and Sawasdee khrap,

I just found out right before I wanted to sign out, that there's something going on this Friday in form of tests. No teaching for me, but I have to sign in and considering that I'm a few km's away, I'll have to do some stuff for next week, before I'm able to sign out. Damn fingerprint scanners......

The way I understood it was that all levels will be tested in several Thai subjects. This is the third week where I haven't seen my grade six students.

They were pretty busy with O-net camps for the whole last week, the week before on three days and a few other, in my opinion unnecessary assignments.

I spent about an hour to "check" the test answers, which was insane. Too many questions were absolutely ridiculous. Many had no possible answer, quite a lot had two, or three right answers.

They'd already given them a lot of wrong answers and those kids who're good got really confused. So I ended up to solve it the "Thai way", that none of our teachers lost face.

We're a little Anuban school in a little town and I'm just wondering if the same chaos is going on at bigger schools regarding that matter.

One of my grade one students knew the right answer to a question a Thai teacher" misinterpreted" wrong. If a grade one student is capable to find the right answer of a grade six O-net question, then you might start to think what's going on here.

The seven year old boy had been in the UK for four years, just came back six months ago and none of our Thai English teachers understands him, nor does our Filipino teacher.

I truly believe that the students' level of English 10 years ago was higher than it is now, which doesn't make much sense to many people, because thousands of thousands native English speaking " teachers" are currently employed nationwide.

Then all the "Asian teachers" who seem to be employed at almost all schools by now. I truly believe that all the agency "teachers", plus the Asian teachers are the reason for it.

I've just recently met three ex-students of mine who were my students in grade six and was really shocked about their communication skills.

They went through six years of high school, where they had "Experienced Native English Speaking Teachers." ( from a well= known agency).

They could communicate and answer simple questions about themselves when they were in grade six. ( About seven years ago).

Unfortunately, after "learning English at a well -known high school" for six years, they don't even understand very simple questions like "How are you?"

Neither are the "new generation of Thai English teachers better in English, nor do I see any light at the end of the teaching in Thailand tunnel.

I'd really appreciate the input of your own personal view/experience, plus trying to figure out why the level of English has dropped immensely within ten years.

Most threads on this forum are mostly about the bad quality of Thai English teachers. But I tend to believe that many foreigners do the rest.

[casualbiker]

I personally believe that you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about NES.

You have been here long enough to know that O-net test are written and administered by NIETS (a government agency) and have nothing to do with the school. You also know that foreign teachers, NES or otherwise have to do things the schools way. Certainly in the last 5 years at my school the Thai teachers have been sabotaging the foreign teachers by telling the kids that speaking doesn't matter, passing the test and keeping the school high in the ranking matters. Similar things happened in UK schools about 10 years ago, schools just chasing test scores and ranking .. they realised and things have changed somewhat .. here, no changes. Just talk and blame for teachers and students for not passing the ridiculous O-net tests !

[Lekong]

It is really regrettable that some of us find ourselves teaching in Thailand. I have read many O-Net questions and I was so frustrated with the level of ignorant of people who set this exam. An exam which has no syllabus, an exam with many wrong answers, and exam with many correct answers for one question, an exam which is far above the level of the students that it is meant for. The question to ask is, do they really lack intellectuals who can set this exam for it to have a meaning? This is a question which leaves much to be desired.

Talking of the fallen standards, I have been here only for close to two years and my experience has it that the Thai English teachers contribute more than 60 percent to the fallen standards. The English of the Thai English teachers in the area where I teach is inherently bad. They make no effort to learn and improve their English. They keep on teaching wrong things day in day out to students. When you correct them, they are angry with you. These are teachers who are teaching grammar but all the sentences that they make are almost all wrong. When you listen to their pronunciation, it will drive you mad. So what exactly are they teaching students? They give the impression to the students that they are right, clever and very educated too. When in fact they are not. The students believe them more than the foreign teachers. They are all Thais and of course what a Thai says is ever right. When a student says for example “labbit” and I tell the student that it is “rabbit” and not “labbit”, the Thai English teacher is angry with me, asks the student to continue with “labbit”. This is just one example out of a bazillion. If the Thai English teachers were just a little good, then the standard would not have been deplorable as it is now. They spend more time teaching students than we the foreign English teachers do. So the students are more familiar with their English than with what the foreign teachers teach them. They are the very ones indoctrinating students not to follow some of us because we constantly correct them and will not accept their poor English.

The foreign English teachers may contribute about 30 percent to the fallen standards of English in this country. Some of us are not qualified to be English teachers. Some of us spend our time drinking a lot of alcohol that we have little or no time to prepare our lessons. Some of us who came here as tourists and because of circumstances became English teachers, were never meant to be teachers and so can’t do effective work in class. Some of the worst cases of English teachers are those from Africa (I am an African). They in fact are doing a good mess of the teaching job here. Since any Tom, Dick, Jack or Harry can brandish an ill gotten degree in English language and can get a teaching job here, the standards will only continue to fall.

The students may contribute about 10 percent to the fallen standards of English. Most of the students don’t seem to know why they are going to school. They spend time talking about trivialities than their studies. Being too naughty, disturbing in class and showing a terrible lack of respect for the foreign English teachers. Knowing fully well that whether they pass or not they will go to the next grade is a wonderful motivation for them not to care or be serious in their studies. Why do they need to bother themselves reading hard when they will be promoted at the end of the school year to the next grade? When I complained about the naughtiness of the students, my deputy director tells me not to worry myself. That I teach well, the students disturb, their parents pay me so I should not care about them. Where do I keep my conscience? Getting paid while the students are not gaining any knowledge from me. God forbid.

[nobleman]

Well spoken Lekong. My feelings exactly. Thai teachers all the time tell students to not learn in EP b/c english is a useless language. I have no idea why the OP thinks agency teachers are bad. I am quite confident my academic qualifications exceed 99% of all teachers here

[Shaunduhpostman]

The whole debacle that is Thai "education," deliberately seeks to keep the general populace as uneducated as possible. I am not Thai bashing either, it was first pointed out to me by a Thai professor who tried to explain to me why I could not fail students in my classes. I have since heard from others who point out they feel pretty much the same way.

[lostinisaan]

Well spoken Lekong. My feelings exactly. Thai teachers all the time tell students to not learn in EP b/c english is a useless language. I have no idea why the OP thinks agency teachers are bad. I am quite confident my academic qualifications exceed 99% of all teachers here

Lekong seems to be new to the “teaching profession” in Thailand and I truly appreciate his post.

But at the same time I tend to believe that you’re not long enough in this “business” to come up with such a hard to understand statement that “Thai teachers all the time tell students to not learn in EP b/c English is a useless language, while you’re quite confident that your academic qualifications “exceed” 99% of all teachers here.”

Is it possible that we work in different countries? I mean my post was about Thailand, roughly speaking.

Have you ever thought about the fact that “ academic qualifications” and being a good teacher do not necessarily go hand in hand? You’re basically saying that you’re a better teacher than most of us, who ‘re working here for many moons. Congratulations to you.

Would you go to a garage to get your car fixed, where the mechanic has the best "academic qualifications" on paper, who doesn't find the problem, or would you go to somebody who'll find the problem in a minute, with less qualifications? Please be honest.....

My point about agencies wasn't just guessing. I've worked for a well – known one and have a sort of insider knowledge how some of them get their “teachers” and how they operate. It’s all about money, nothing else.

Please Google it and you’ll find various websites, where you’d immediately find employment, having many years of teaching experience in Thailand.

Such agencies have a strange and very similar problem. They can’t deliver what they offer in their unbelievable good looking brochures. They seldom have qualified teachers, so the only way to keep their wallets filled is to look for tourists at Khao San road, or somewhere in Pattaya for fresh meat.

These tourists, many of them backpackers on a holiday in Thailand then sign a contract and were sent to a school somewhere in this country. I've worked with guys who didn't even finish high school, one Alaskan spelled Wednesday without “ne” in his first lesson, plus many other very negative examples.

Two of them were convicted criminals, one was in prison for murder, the other guy “only had an armed robbery” on his account.

Another guy was always so stoned that he often ran against a glass sliding door to our office. If he didn't do that, then he sat on his eyeglasses and he had to leave to buy some new ones. Then some obviously pedophiles, who thought they’re in paradise………………….

I could go on and on and on, but let’s leave it here. Should be enough to answer your question.

Directors who sign contracts with agencies don’t really think about the kids’ education. It’s all about money. A free holiday for the director with family and perhaps the head teacher seems to be more important than “well educated students.”

Same goes for most agencies. Their purpose is to “make money”.

I never said that all agency teachers are bad, but an hour of English a week, taught by an inexperienced “teacher” can’t create students who all in a sudden speak/read/write good English.

Sorry, wasn't my intention to write such a long post. G’Day. -

[casualbiker]

Lostinissan. One of the problems is that YOU do go ON AND ON. You must have met more English teachers than most of us to find these characters. Or you have an amazing imagination. Ummm probably a bit of both!!!

[Pormax]

Why should the students work hard to learn English when they know that they will, at exam times still get a pass mark.

My wife's neice who lives with us does one hour a day of English with me. It is very hard going as her IQ is pretty poor.

However she does understand a lot more than 98% of her class mates.

She 'passed' her English test, and I use the term 'test' very loosely.

Her cousin meanwhile had to learn how to count to twenty in English and say the days of the week to the teacher then was given the same pass mark.

When she said the days of the week to me, most of them were very badly pronounced and if one did not know what words you expected to hear you would have a hard job realising what she was trying to say.

The English teaching in the school is a joke. I have seen the work they do by looking at my neice's school book, they copy what they have been told to do without any one explaining a single word to them.

[lostinisaan]

Lostinissan. One of the problems is that YOU do go ON AND ON. You must have met more English teachers than most of us to find these characters. Or you have an amazing imagination. Ummm probably a bit of both!!!

I apologize if you see my concerns as a problem. There's no need to read them, honestly speaking. Yes, I've met and worked with a few hundred foreign English teachers in ten years, at four schools, but also through conducting seminars, etc.

In my time when I worked for an agency, I've sometimes seen new "teachers" coming and going almost every week. Some where only there until payday, then disappeared. On many occasions we had to cover other lessons, because the agency couldn't provide what they had promised to provide. Teachers.

I'm talking about a time about seven years ago. But this agency at least paid us for covering certain hours, when we exceeded the amount of stated hours in our contract.

"These characters" are for real and I can back all up.One of these already mentioned criminals even went that far that he wanted to kill the owner of a Karaoke bar,plus some witnesses, somewhere in lower northeast, just because he didn't understand the owner.

At this time, I had no idea about his criminal past, no idea that he faked his criminal background check, by using photo shop.No idea that he wanted to take an underage girl at this Karaoke bar and then wanted me to do the talking part to get he into his car, no idea that he was so poor in his mother tongue, etc..

The same guy's still working as a teacher and is a sort of a "model teacher."

Please do not call me a liar and use your own imagination. Do you really think that I'd "make such stories up?"

Casualbiker, if you do not like to read this, just don't do it. If you're working here for a long time and you've got your own point of view why the level of English had dropped within the last ten years, I'd deeply appreciate to read your input.

Unfortunately, I can only talk about schools in the northeast, so any posts from other provinces are really welcome and appreciated.

I might be completely wrong and posted this on the wrong website, or forum. G'Day.-

[casualbiker]

" If you're working here for a long time and you've got your own point of view why the level of English had dropped within the last ten years, I'd deeply appreciate to read your input."

I think one of the main reasons is apathy. The fact that speaking English is not required to pass the tests. The fact that EVERY student passes tests with no serious reprimand for failure. I think English is actually used MORE by Thais now than 10 years ago BUT apathy and the no fail school system is certainly NOT helping Thai children compete. To suggest that foreign teachers are at fault (teachers that have no or little input into the curriculum etc) is misleading. Most teachers that I know have been teaching for 5 years or more. Maybe some have been jaded by the system, I know it affects me from time to time!

In previous posts in other threads you have detailed the same. If a child cannot fail then it takes a LOT of determination to stay at the top of the class without giving up!

[casualbiker]

Your favorite .. schools wasting time on events etc during school time.. these kids have been pulled from class EVERY day this week, practising a dance for our schools 50th anniversary!

[lostinisaan]

" If you're working here for a long time and you've got your own point of view why the level of English had dropped within the last ten years, I'd deeply appreciate to read your input."

I think one of the main reasons is apathy. The fact that speaking English is not required to pass the tests. The fact that EVERY student passes tests with no serious reprimand for failure. I think English is actually used MORE by Thais now than 10 years ago BUT apathy and the no fail school system is certainly NOT helping Thai children compete. To suggest that foreign teachers are at fault (teachers that have no or little input into the curriculum etc) is misleading. Most teachers that I know have been teaching for 5 years or more. Maybe some have been jaded by the system, I know it affects me from time to time!

In previous posts in other threads you have detailed the same. If a child cannot fail then it takes a LOT of determination to stay at the top of the class without giving up!

Here's the "cure":

Take some newbie agency teachers, add some Asian "Ajarn here, Ajarn there, Ajarns freaking everywhere" teechas, mix them with some native English teachers from Cameroon holding a degree from Beau.

Finally throw some Thai English teachers in the mortar, who know how to say Snai, Snai, Fiss, Fiss properly, but please look for those who still have their faces.

Round it up with a teaspoon of lemon juice and stir it well.

To make sure that nobody's face, or fartless, tell the students that they're not allowed to ask their educators any questions.

Create such an outstanding environment where all students pass and come to the next class, no matter how bad they are.

Give the school to a guy with the most Mia Nois and of course other luxury goods and call him Poo- O.

That's how you "create the world's best" educational hub. It's that easy.

[casualbiker]

" If you're working here for a long time and you've got your own point of view why the level of English had dropped within the last ten years, I'd deeply appreciate to read your input."

I think one of the main reasons is apathy. The fact that speaking English is not required to pass the tests. The fact that EVERY student passes tests with no serious reprimand for failure. I think English is actually used MORE by Thais now than 10 years ago BUT apathy and the no fail school system is certainly NOT helping Thai children compete. To suggest that foreign teachers are at fault (teachers that have no or little input into the curriculum etc) is misleading. Most teachers that I know have been teaching for 5 years or more. Maybe some have been jaded by the system, I know it affects me from time to time!

In previous posts in other threads you have detailed the same. If a child cannot fail then it takes a LOT of determination to stay at the top of the class without giving up!

Here's the "cure":

Take some newbie agency teachers, add some Asian "Ajarn here, Ajarn there, Ajarns freaking everywhere" teechas, mix them with some native English teachers from Cameroon holding a degree from Beau.

Finally throw some Thai English teachers in the mortar, who know how to say Snai, Snai, Fiss, Fiss properly, but please look for those who still have their faces.

Round it up with a teaspoon of lemon juice and stir it well.

To make sure that nobody's face, or fartless, tell the students that they're not allowed to ask their educators any questions.

Create such an outstanding environment where all students pass and come to the next class, no matter how bad they are.

Give the school to a guy with the most Mia Nois and of course other luxury goods and call him Poo- O.

That's how you "create the world's best" educational hub. It's that easy.

Jeeze.. your school sounds really bad :-D