Breaking free from the Shinawatras

[binjalin]

it's nothing about the title it's about ........................ (censored)

[Robby nz]

As an outsider I still don't understand the witch hunt style campaign against the Shinawatra family. I suspect I never will.

Probably a good thing.

try reading Thai Recent History

But avoid the Thai history book with the red cover.

[ExPratt]

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This article does make a point though. The Shin family does not make waves if everything thing is going their way but as soon as something goes sour and their motives questioned they automatically start screaming democracy and try to use that as a shield. Just as. YL laid claim that democracy died with her impeachment. References to this effect insinuate their can be no democracy without her or her family. Calls to fight always seem to come from the red shirts when they are in the spotlight for wrongdoings. Perhaps my assessment is wrong. But it appears this way to me looking at it as an outsider.

And the Yellow shirts of course are thoroughly well behaved when things don't go there way . An example to us all of how to conduct oneself with restraint ,dignity and decorum

Edited February 7, 2015 by ExPratt

[Docno]

As an outsider I still don't understand the witch hunt style campaign against the Shinawatra family. I suspect I never will.

Probably a good thing.

The reason is simple... That family robbed and raided the Thai taxpayers money with impunity... is there something about that which is not understandable...

Winston Churchill got it right...You can fool some of the people..etc,etc...........

"That family robbed and raided the Thai taxpayers money with impunity."

In that sense, the Shins were no different from the elites that have been running the country for many, many years. The only difference was--and this is what caused all the trouble--is that they came from outside the 'Bangkok circle'. They didn't have the bloodline and the connections... they were unpredictable upstarts who upset the balance. And while they were obviously self-serving, they knew they needed a power base, and they found that among poor and the farmers. That made them even more of a threat to the elites, especially when it became clear that they may be unstoppable at the ballot box. And to keep that support, they were the first government in Bangkok to listen to the poor and try to address their needs. Subsidized health care, low-cost antiretrovirals, micro-loans, subsidized housing, student loans, infrastructure development, etc ... these were more than 'throwing bones', as some here have said. Of course, there were blunders such as the 'war on drugs' (though my Thai friends tell me this did have the intended effect of reducing drug availability and use), the rice pledging scheme, etc. But the point is that as self-serving as such policies may have been, it was the first time someone in Bangkok was actually paying attention to the working poor of the country ... it was the first time that the working poor realised that they had power in numbers. Of course, that 'power' relies on a democratic system, but even the 'good General' realises that this large constituency cannot be ignored again, even if the Shins are forever removed from the scene.

[Sviss Geez]

what's this guy's point? The title is 'breaking free...' but it isn't about that.

editorial nonsense.... next.

Try reading it again and properly assimilating all the words and what they mean when put together in sentences and paragraphs. You will then find that the report actually is connected directly to the title.

The only nonsense is your dismissive post.

[Sviss Geez]

The Thai press loves to aggrandize Thaksin and his family.

Whatever the OP is doing it is certainly not aggrandising the Thaksins.

[Sviss Geez]

The big question that is not answered is what Thailand has got in its place. Thaksin was self-serving, but isn't this a common trait in most of the Governments elected or forced into power.

The return to democratic rule would be a better story, but these right wing tabloids can't talk about this as they will spend time being re-educated.

Of course that question was not answered, how could the OP answer something that is asked by you after it's publication? The OP was not trying to answer any questions, it was a valid editorial opinion on the standing of the Shinawatras in many individuals eyes.

Also I think you'll find that The Nation is a broadsheet and trying to decry it by referring to it as a tabloid is nonsensical.

[halloween]

Is this Somsak's subtle hint that his next cheque is overdue?

[ExPratt]

I don't know they are as bad as some people say or saints serving the poor as others may believe. But here are a couple of FACTOIDS that came out with Yesterday Unemployment figures , think they were trying to Turd Polish with them but gave unintended compliment to last few governments

"During these two decades, the ratio of the income share held by the richest and poorest 10 per cent of the population - the decile dispersion ratio - decreased 3.8 points in the Kingdom."

"In addition, Thailand has seen strong wage growth of more than 5 per cent annually in recent years, thanks mainly to the government policy to significantly raise the minimum wage in 2012 and |2013."

For me someone has to stand up for the poor in this country , sometimes you have to take the Devil you know,

[halloween]

I don't know they are as bad as some people say or saints serving the poor as others may believe. But here are a couple of FACTOIDS that came out with Yesterday Unemployment figures , think they were trying to Turd Polish with them but gave unintended compliment to last few governments

"During these two decades, the ratio of the income share held by the richest and poorest 10 per cent of the population - the decile dispersion ratio - decreased 3.8 points in the Kingdom."

"In addition, Thailand has seen strong wage growth of more than 5 per cent annually in recent years, thanks mainly to the government policy to significantly raise the minimum wage in 2012 and |2013."

For me someone has to stand up for the poor in this country , sometimes you have to take the Devil you know,

3.8% explained - Thaksin moved offshore. I'm sure his asset increase, was it 450%, through insider trading using knowledge from cabinet meetings, makes the poor much happier.

BTW not only did Yingluk raise the minimum wage, she also significantly raised inflation by doing it. It's called fool's gold.

Edited February 7, 2015 by halloween

[ExPratt]

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I don't know they are as bad as some people say or saints serving the poor as others may believe. But here are a couple of FACTOIDS that came out with Yesterday Unemployment figures , think they were trying to Turd Polish with them but gave unintended compliment to last few governments

"During these two decades, the ratio of the income share held by the richest and poorest 10 per cent of the population - the decile dispersion ratio - decreased 3.8 points in the Kingdom."

"In addition, Thailand has seen strong wage growth of more than 5 per cent annually in recent years, thanks mainly to the government policy to significantly raise the minimum wage in 2012 and |2013."

For me someone has to stand up for the poor in this country , sometimes you have to take the Devil you know,

3.8% explained - Thaksin moved offshore. I'm sure his asset increase, was it 450%, through insider trading using knowledge from cabinet meetings, makes the poor much happier.

BTW not only did Yingluk raise the minimum wage, she also significantly raised inflation by doing it. It's called fool's gold.

The poor dont give a shit how much he earned , the rich give a shit what he earned because they were pissed off it wasn't them. Put either of them up for an election and they would win in another land slide tomorrow. They are all as bent as each other , but at least the poor benefit from this one

[halloween]

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I don't know they are as bad as some people say or saints serving the poor as others may believe. But here are a couple of FACTOIDS that came out with Yesterday Unemployment figures , think they were trying to Turd Polish with them but gave unintended compliment to last few governments

"During these two decades, the ratio of the income share held by the richest and poorest 10 per cent of the population - the decile dispersion ratio - decreased 3.8 points in the Kingdom."

"In addition, Thailand has seen strong wage growth of more than 5 per cent annually in recent years, thanks mainly to the government policy to significantly raise the minimum wage in 2012 and |2013."

For me someone has to stand up for the poor in this country , sometimes you have to take the Devil you know,

3.8% explained - Thaksin moved offshore. I'm sure his asset increase, was it 450%, through insider trading using knowledge from cabinet meetings, makes the poor much happier.

BTW not only did Yingluk raise the minimum wage, she also significantly raised inflation by doing it. It's called fool's gold.

The poor dont give a shit how much he earned , the rich give a shit what he earned because they were pissed off it wasn't them. Put either of them up for an election and they would win in another land slide tomorrow. They are all as bent as each other , but at least the poor benefit from this one

The OP suggests your sad delusions are just that. How many poor have benefited from the Yingluk government's time? Has personal or public debt decreased?

BTW quite a few Thais know how much he earned, and where it came from. Your ex- is premature.

[ExPratt]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I don't know they are as bad as some people say or saints serving the poor as others may believe. But here are a couple of FACTOIDS that came out with Yesterday Unemployment figures , think they were trying to Turd Polish with them but gave unintended compliment to last few governments

"During these two decades, the ratio of the income share held by the richest and poorest 10 per cent of the population - the decile dispersion ratio - decreased 3.8 points in the Kingdom."

"In addition, Thailand has seen strong wage growth of more than 5 per cent annually in recent years, thanks mainly to the government policy to significantly raise the minimum wage in 2012 and |2013."

For me someone has to stand up for the poor in this country , sometimes you have to take the Devil you know,

3.8% explained - Thaksin moved offshore. I'm sure his asset increase, was it 450%, through insider trading using knowledge from cabinet meetings, makes the poor much happier.

BTW not only did Yingluk raise the minimum wage, she also significantly raised inflation by doing it. It's called fool's gold.

The poor dont give a shit how much he earned , the rich give a shit what he earned because they were pissed off it wasn't them. Put either of them up for an election and they would win in another land slide tomorrow. They are all as bent as each other , but at least the poor benefit from this one

The OP suggests your sad delusions are just that. How many poor have benefited from the Yingluk government's time? Has personal or public debt decreased?

BTW quite a few Thais know how much he earned, and where it came from. Your ex- is premature.

I have no idea about how much money was put into what by who and whose better off or not. But the main thing for me is the poor or working class vote for his parties and have done for what ? 15 years ?. So when push comes to shove they must be better off under him or they wouldn't vote for him. Now

if opponents say he's using tax money in public give aways as a way of buying votes well that's what every political party in the world does , the popular policies get you votes, so directing them at you grassroots support makes sense , plus the people they aimed them at were in need of help

[wowfactor10]

Happy that soon there will be the one party only contest fair elections in Thailand...

Nothing to worry as they follow the German model i assume 1939-1945

[rubl]

I don't know they are as bad as some people say or saints serving the poor as others may believe. But here are a couple of FACTOIDS that came out with Yesterday Unemployment figures , think they were trying to Turd Polish with them but gave unintended compliment to last few governments

"During these two decades, the ratio of the income share held by the richest and poorest 10 per cent of the population - the decile dispersion ratio - decreased 3.8 points in the Kingdom."

"In addition, Thailand has seen strong wage growth of more than 5 per cent annually in recent years, thanks mainly to the government policy to significantly raise the minimum wage in 2012 and |2013."

For me someone has to stand up for the poor in this country , sometimes you have to take the Devil you know,

3.8% explained - Thaksin moved offshore. I'm sure his asset increase, was it 450%, through insider trading using knowledge from cabinet meetings, makes the poor much happier.

BTW not only did Yingluk raise the minimum wage, she also significantly raised inflation by doing it. It's called fool's gold.

With lots of Thai wondering how to stretch their salary to last a whole month, what with topics like 'budget food corners', rising costs of living doesn't seem to have been imagination after all, now does it?

2012-05-04

"BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra is preparing to tell Thais that their perception of soaring prices is just that, a perception. In fact, government research indicates that prices are trending downwards."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/552489-idea-of-prices-rising-a-misconception-pm-yingluck/

Edited February 7, 2015 by rubl

[halloween]

I have no idea about how much money was put into what by who and whose better off or not. But the main thing for me is the poor or working class vote for his parties and have done for what ? 15 years ?. So when push comes to shove they must be better off under him or they wouldn't vote for him. Now

if opponents say he's using tax money in public give aways as a way of buying votes well that's what every political party in the world does , the popular policies get you votes, so directing them at you grassroots support makes sense , plus the people they aimed them at were in need of help

Yes the poor certainly needed help, and at great expense they didn't get it. Popular policy is one thing, an unsustainable delusion which turned out to be a scam with none of the benefits going to where it was claimed to go is quite another.

Major beneficiaries were landlords, large scale farmers, and storage owners - their poverty is abject. Suicide rates soared, or was that bank balances.

Edited February 7, 2015 by halloween

[waitforusalso]

I don't know they are as bad as some people say or saints serving the poor as others may believe. But here are a couple of FACTOIDS that came out with Yesterday Unemployment figures , think they were trying to Turd Polish with them but gave unintended compliment to last few governments

"During these two decades, the ratio of the income share held by the richest and poorest 10 per cent of the population - the decile dispersion ratio - decreased 3.8 points in the Kingdom."

"In addition, Thailand has seen strong wage growth of more than 5 per cent annually in recent years, thanks mainly to the government policy to significantly raise the minimum wage in 2012 and |2013."

For me someone has to stand up for the poor in this country , sometimes you have to take the Devil you know,

3.8% explained - Thaksin moved offshore. I'm sure his asset increase, was it 450%, through insider trading using knowledge from cabinet meetings, makes the poor much happier.

BTW not only did Yingluk raise the minimum wage, she also significantly raised inflation by doing it. It's called fool's gold.

With lots of Thai wondering how to stretch their salary to last a whole month, what with topics like 'budget food corners', rising costs of living doesn't seem to have been imagination after all, now does it?

"he launched a variety of policies in favor of the masses. In fact, according to the pole survey by ABAC, these policies attracted a great deal of support from the people: 84% for OTOP, 81% for the 30-baht medical services, and 79% for village funds scheme in contrast to 39% for anti-corruption campaign and 35% for restructuring of state enterprises (Tamada 2005, 182–183)."

http://englishkyoto-seas.org/2014/08/vol-3-no-2-suehiro-akira/

"Thaksin’s great victory in the general election was interpreted by a royalist-military group as a potential and serious menace to the monarchy system. At the same time, Thaksin’s reform of the budget system at the expense of defense matters has always irritated a military group. In addition, he directly intervened in the top personnel manage­ment of the military by appointing his cousin in 2003. These activities finally resulted in the counter-balancing activity of a royalist-military coup to oust Thaksin from the power in 2006 (Wasana 2008)."

http://englishkyoto-seas.org/2014/08/vol-3-no-2-suehiro-akira/

"From 2000-2004, poverty dropped from 21% to 11% and agricultural incomes rose by 40%, higher than the rise in any other forms of income (see page 14 of the same World Bank report mentioned in the that post)"

World Bank

"Thailand's Gini coefficient, a measure of income inequality, fell from .525 in 2000 to .499 in 2004 (it had risen from 1996 to 2000)"

World Bank, Thailand Economic Monitor November 2005

[mikemac]

Whats the point in breaking away from the Shinawatras, just to remain under the grip of the military and the old BKK powers.

Yeah, you are probably right smutty. And after the rice debacle the farmers are probably thinking "What's the difference between being screwed over by the Shins or the Amart, elite, hi-so, fascist Old Guard. End of the day we are still screwed."

[ExPratt]

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I have no idea about how much money was put into what by who and whose better off or not. But the main thing for me is the poor or working class vote for his parties and have done for what ? 15 years ?. So when push comes to shove they must be better off under him or they wouldn't vote for him. Now

if opponents say he's using tax money in public give aways as a way of buying votes well that's what every political party in the world does , the popular policies get you votes, so directing them at you grassroots support makes sense , plus the people they aimed them at were in need of help

Yes the poor certainly needed help, and at great expense they didn't get it. Popular policy is one thing, an unsustainable delusion which turned out to be a scam with none of the benefits going to where it was claimed to go is quite another.

Major beneficiaries were landlords, large scale farmers, and storage owners - their poverty is abject. Suicide rates soared, or was that bank balances.

All fair points mate, I just wonder where or whether their will be another Political movement or Party that will at least take the needs of the working class and poor into consideration

[mikemac]

I don't know they are as bad as some people say or saints serving the poor as others may believe. But here are a couple of FACTOIDS that came out with Yesterday Unemployment figures , think they were trying to Turd Polish with them but gave unintended compliment to last few governments

"During these two decades, the ratio of the income share held by the richest and poorest 10 per cent of the population - the decile dispersion ratio - decreased 3.8 points in the Kingdom."

"In addition, Thailand has seen strong wage growth of more than 5 per cent annually in recent years, thanks mainly to the government policy to significantly raise the minimum wage in 2012 and |2013."

For me someone has to stand up for the poor in this country , sometimes you have to take the Devil you know,

3.8% explained - Thaksin moved offshore. I'm sure his asset increase, was it 450%, through insider trading using knowledge from cabinet meetings, makes the poor much happier.

BTW not only did Yingluk raise the minimum wage, she also significantly raised inflation by doing it. It's called fool's gold.

With lots of Thai wondering how to stretch their salary to last a whole month, what with topics like 'budget food corners', rising costs of living doesn't seem to have been imagination after all, now does it?

"he launched a variety of policies in favor of the masses. In fact, according to the pole survey by ABAC, these policies attracted a great deal of support from the people: 84% for OTOP, 81% for the 30-baht medical services, and 79% for village funds scheme in contrast to 39% for anti-corruption campaign and 35% for restructuring of state enterprises (Tamada 2005, 182–183)."

http://englishkyoto-seas.org/2014/08/vol-3-no-2-suehiro-akira/

"Thaksin’s great victory in the general election was interpreted by a royalist-military group as a potential and serious menace to the monarchy system. At the same time, Thaksin’s reform of the budget system at the expense of defense matters has always irritated a military group. In addition, he directly intervened in the top personnel manage­ment of the military by appointing his cousin in 2003. These activities finally resulted in the counter-balancing activity of a royalist-military coup to oust Thaksin from the power in 2006 (Wasana 2008)."

http://englishkyoto-seas.org/2014/08/vol-3-no-2-suehiro-akira/

"From 2000-2004, poverty dropped from 21% to 11% and agricultural incomes rose by 40%, higher than the rise in any other forms of income (see page 14 of the same World Bank report mentioned in the that post)"

World Bank

"Thailand's Gini coefficient, a measure of income inequality, fell from .525 in 2000 to .499 in 2004 (it had risen from 1996 to 2000)"

World Bank, Thailand Economic Monitor November 2005

Hey, waitforusalso, you forgot to quote this little gem from that article by Suehiro Akira -

............"First of all, Thaksin has frequently and publicly expressed his idea that “a state is a company, and a prime minister is a CEO of country”...............

Truer words have never been spoken !

[Thai at Heart]

This article does make a point though. The Shin family does not make waves if everything thing is going their way but as soon as something goes sour and their motives questioned they automatically start screaming democracy and try to use that as a shield. Just as. YL laid claim that democracy died with her impeachment. References to this effect insinuate their can be no democracy without her or her family. Calls to fight always seem to come from the red shirts when they are in the spotlight for wrongdoings. Perhaps my assessment is wrong. But it appears this way to me looking at it as an outsider.

If they could build a robust system that everyone complied with there would not be any problems.

It is the coup makers repeated inability to write a robust constitution and stick to it which is the essential problem. Anyone would assume they have a vested interest in a corruptible legal system and patronage.

I mean, just imagine if everything was clean and transparent. How would a general get by on a few thousand USD per month.

The Army is the problem not the solution

[rickirs]

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Get rid of the Shins, then the Military and Thailand may just have a chance.

You know the song, "99 bottles of beer on the wall, take one down, pass it around, 98 bottles of beer on the wall?" Still plenty of families to be taken down after the Shins and military. Thailand doesn't have a Buddhist chant.

[rubl]

I don't know they are as bad as some people say or saints serving the poor as others may believe. But here are a couple of FACTOIDS that came out with Yesterday Unemployment figures , think they were trying to Turd Polish with them but gave unintended compliment to last few governments

"During these two decades, the ratio of the income share held by the richest and poorest 10 per cent of the population - the decile dispersion ratio - decreased 3.8 points in the Kingdom."

"In addition, Thailand has seen strong wage growth of more than 5 per cent annually in recent years, thanks mainly to the government policy to significantly raise the minimum wage in 2012 and |2013."

For me someone has to stand up for the poor in this country , sometimes you have to take the Devil you know,

3.8% explained - Thaksin moved offshore. I'm sure his asset increase, was it 450%, through insider trading using knowledge from cabinet meetings, makes the poor much happier.

BTW not only did Yingluk raise the minimum wage, she also significantly raised inflation by doing it. It's called fool's gold.

With lots of Thai wondering how to stretch their salary to last a whole month, what with topics like 'budget food corners', rising costs of living doesn't seem to have been imagination after all, now does it?

2012-05-04

"BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra is preparing to tell Thais that their perception of soaring prices is just that, a perception. In fact, government research indicates that prices are trending downwards."

http://www.thaivisa....on-pm-yingluck/

"he launched a variety of policies in favor of the masses. In fact, according to the pole survey by ABAC, these policies attracted a great deal of support from the people: 84% for OTOP, 81% for the 30-baht medical services, and 79% for village funds scheme in contrast to 39% for anti-corruption campaign and 35% for restructuring of state enterprises (Tamada 2005, 182–183)."

http://englishkyoto-seas.org/2014/08/vol-3-no-2-suehiro-akira/

"Thaksin’s great victory in the general election was interpreted by a royalist-military group as a potential and serious menace to the monarchy system. At the same time, Thaksin’s reform of the budget system at the expense of defense matters has always irritated a military group. In addition, he directly intervened in the top personnel manage­ment of the military by appointing his cousin in 2003. These activities finally resulted in the counter-balancing activity of a royalist-military coup to oust Thaksin from the power in 2006 (Wasana 2008)."

http://englishkyoto-seas.org/2014/08/vol-3-no-2-suehiro-akira/

"From 2000-2004, poverty dropped from 21% to 11% and agricultural incomes rose by 40%, higher than the rise in any other forms of income (see page 14 of the same World Bank report mentioned in the that post)"

World Bank

"Thailand's Gini coefficient, a measure of income inequality, fell from .525 in 2000 to .499 in 2004 (it had risen from 1996 to 2000)"

World Bank, Thailand Economic Monitor November 2005

I put back my quote about 'perception of price raises' and since you're so into the 'Thaksin Years' may I add

"Chris Baker says: "The clever thing Thaksin did was that, unlike previous figures who made money by dipping their hands in the till, he used power to increase the profits of his companies, and increase the number of companies in which he had a stake.""

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26000693

So, breaking away from the Shinawatras, not easy for some.

[EnglishJohn]

"The red-shirt uprising in 2010 came weeks after a court ruled that billions of baht of the family's assets should be seized"

I think this sums it all up. Red-shirts and the poor have been manipulated by Thaksin purely for his own benefit and even now they refuse to see it because he has managed to plant a huge chip on each shoulder against everyone else.

One day they will wake up and realise that there is no such thing as a free lunch. Maybe on that day a leader will be found who can actually stand up for them in politics in a civilised manner and begin the democratic process of lifting so many out of poverty while a few are so very, very rich.

Not holding my breath though : even if it started now, it would be many years before the corner could be turned. Sadly in Thailand a visionary is someone who can think ahead to next week.

[EnglishJohn]

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Get rid of the Shins, then the Military and Thailand may just have a chance.

You know the song, "99 bottles of beer on the wall, take one down, pass it around, 98 bottles of beer on the wall?" Still plenty of families to be taken down after the Shins and military. Thailand doesn't have a Buddhist chant.

Maybe so, but you have to start somewhere. Put the fattest chicken in the pot first and maybe some of the others will choose to go on a diet. Or, more likely here I suppose, they will start gorging on the giblets.

[Ragzilb]

I dont like the Shins never had.. Hope they never come back or hurt any other people for that matter. But there is an old saying "theres a calm before the storm"

The Shins have a lot of money invested in Thailand and countried around Thailand as well, Dont think we have seen the last of them yet. I would put a world wide bounty on them and have them brought to court so we can be sure we are rid of them for ever.

Peace and all the love for Thailand and Khun Thai.

[ExPratt]

How about a "Breaking Free of the Kingdoms Autocratic Elite" Thread

[mikemac]

How about a "Breaking Free of the Kingdoms Autocratic Elite" Thread

I keep hearing about this "elite", but nobody seems to know who they are. I have requested many posters who like to mention them to tell me who they actually are, to name them, but nothing. Even just one name and I would be happy.

[Wilsonandson]

Ragzilb said and I quote" The Shins have a lot of money invested in Thailand and countried around Thailand as well."

Care to elaborate at little more on the names of these interests and their links to the Shinawatras? A little investigation into these interests might be needed to see if positions in power were abused acquiring these interests. Corruption is their middle name.

[ExPratt]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

How about a "Breaking Free of the Kingdoms Autocratic Elite" Thread

I keep hearing about this "elite", but nobody seems to know who they are. I have requested many posters who like to mention them to tell me who they actually are, to name them, but nothing. Even just one name and I would be happy. alt=whistling.gif>

In General, Suthep and the PDRC backers, The Military Higher echelons and the others I cannot say for fear of breaking the law, Its not something to be smart arsed over, its true , Thailand will never truly be democratic while these people apply a strangle hold every time their control is threatened