Teacher agencies. Good, bad, indifferent?

[WhamBam]

Looking on the internet I have seen a few different teacher agencies advertising for teachers in Thailand. Three stand out as the most prolific advertisers and I wonder if anyone has had experiences with them. Good, bad or indifferent (as long as that does not break any rules).

Would you recommend any of these?

Ajarn

Echo English

Teaching in Thailand (Road experience)

Any others you have used that you have found to be good and would use again?

[cgphuket]

Ajarn is not an agency, it a website that schools and agencies use to post openings.

[angsta]

Ajarn is a website.

The other two I have never heard of. They must be relatively new to Thailand.

I would say the agencies that advertise the most were AYC, Mediakids and Sine.

[WhamBam]

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Ajarn is not an agency, it a website that schools and agencies use to post openings.

Ajarn is a website.

The other two I have never heard of. They must be relatively new to Thailand.

I would say the agencies that advertise the most were AYC, Mediakids and Sine.

That is fair enough and me corrected

I did see Mediakids though not the other two so much. Though, I will look at them, thanks.

[Mencken]

Don't! Go out and find your own job. It takes some legwork and sure some schools have their own set of issues. But agencies are nothing but problems - search the Internet. Read the ad well, much is stated and not stated in their ads. Foreigners running and recruiting in agencies are always bad news. Doubly so if you meet them and they are a manager type rather than teacher type. Camps....just run. Anything part time is illegal work and so is teaching to Chinese over Skype.

Was happiest and worked with best teachers where no agency involved. Agencies are magnets for lazy people.

Agencies wrangle contracts from schools and in many cases you have no choice. Agencies provide the paperwork for schools - that is their real function. Be careful about any agency making high educational claims or standards. Why would you not use industry standard teaching materials? Money, only money.

*Watch out for the ten, eleven month contracts, bonuses that never come based on vague language. Paying your own visa, work permits, etc...

Most of all, you need a visa and wp. If the wp has not arrived by third month, ask to see your processing paperwork and when you will have your wp. AnIf they cant or won't show you, any nonsense, leave. If after three minths and no wp if they cannot demonstrate they are making effort toward your wp, you will teach the year illegally. You will never see it.

There are tins of bad agencies out there now and think nothing of screwing up your visa, wp, license, life, cheating you out of money...looking at the ads this year so far they seem worse, not better.

You have been warned.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Mencken

[siampolee]

So good to see that those with a vast pool of experience are warning others what to look for.

There are a number of reputable agencies here in Thailand and they accept only qualified staff and those staff are working in schools with high standards, those staff are holders of verified degree's, work permits and 12 month contracts with bonus payments at contract end and in some case a golden handshake for signing another contract.

However if you are going to work for a decent agency or school you too have to have the correct background education wise. Properly qualified there are no problems.

Well, that's my experience in my 24 years here in Thailand and being involved in education matters from teacher level to head of school level..

[Mencken]

I just looked at a few agencies on Ajarn. Each one I clicked randomly made no mention of work permit.

If you take a 10-11 month contract, that is a pay decrease of sizable amount and honestly, nothing to live on. Ten month is total non starter. Don't bank on or believe in any "bonus" forthcoming, its just bait. Usually ends up bring half and with all sorts of addl conditions loaded into end of year maybe even accepting new contract on 100% their terms.

Just remember if you are dumb enough (or have other income sources) to take eleven month contract, your annual pay decreases about 3k per month. So if they offer 33k, its now 30k.

What many of the really bs agencies will do is offer you summer school. If you work this you will totally burn yourself out. I've only known one teacher to work summer school and not a total burn out. Saturday teachers are ususally (usually) burn outs too. You need to chill out and recharge.

I'm seeing an absolute ton of jobs in Nakon Si Thammarat. I don't know if its an agency posting as multiple agencies and randomly to sites or what. They often ask for dozens, tens if teachers for some reason. Maybe its their psychology to teachers to think they have oh do many jobs...maybe they do. Just seems odd.

Finally, while jobs are far easier to get in the sticks, especially easier than Chaing Mai, unless housing is free, you will spend same amount as in a city or more. Only caveat is if you somehow get free hiysing which is usually dire and restrictive. Rooms are not much cheaper and motorcycles, a necessity more exoendive than buses.

So, 30k for 11 mos in Issan is not going to cut it IMO.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Mencken

[LecheHombre]

I don't have any experience with working for an agency, but I have talked with several people who do or did. Their situations were like this:

The agency "helped" them with getting Work Visa, Work Permit, and other documentation. Supposedly, agency folks don't need to worry about getting Teacher's Licenses or waivers, which was at least de-facto true for the people that I knew. They had proper Visas and Work Permits, so as far as I can tell they were working 100% legally. As someone who doesn't work through an agency, let me tell you ... all of that help is actually worth something. I'd love to not have to deal with immigration, Kurusapha, etc.

However, their salary was usually in the high teens or low 20's. Two took home 18,000 baht per month. One I knew got 22,000. Worst example actually took home 12,000 baht per month -- and she was a NES from the US.

In the meantime, all four of these people eventually learned how much the school was paying the agency for them to work there. The 2 taking home 18k and the 1 with 22k were at the same school, but in different years and through different agencies. However, the school was paying 40,000 baht to the agency for them. At the same time, traditionally-hired NES people working directly for the school were making 35,000 baht per month. Everybody there discovered this at the same time halfway through the year or so, when the school left a spreadsheet with salaries in plain sight when everybody came in to pick up their cash. Needless to say, that managed to piss off everybody. Traditionally hired people with years of experience are told they can't get loyalty (or even inflationary) pay raises after years of service, yet the school is fine paying a substantial amount more than they are getting to complete noob agency people (or at least, to their agency) with no experience whatsoever. And the agency people discover that their agency is taking about 50% of their paycheck, presumably justified by all the exhaustive paperwork that has to be done for them. Once. Explosion, reactor meltdown, pretty much everybody quits or does a runner (can't say I blame them).

The one taking home 12,000 baht a month eventually just asked her school how much they were paying her agency. They told her the agency got about 30k per month. 30 for them, 12 for you ... the one actually doing all the work. Nice. However, she was more the meek sort so she finished out her (10 month) contract and then moved to another town to get a directly-hired job making about 3x as much as she had before.

So, before I looked into working for an agency, I'd be very careful about doing my homework and seeing how much they are paying me vs how much the school is paying them. Hassle-free visa and work permit might be nice, but it isn't 20,000 baht per month nice. Of course, if you ask basic questions like "can I contact anyone at the school where I will be working", the agency will be likely to make threats about your visa, etc. to try to keep you from figuring this stuff out until after you've got a contract with them. So maybe it is safer just to say ... steer clear.

Edited February 12, 2015 by LecheHombre

[cgphuket]

Its normal for the agency to take 25-50% of your pay as commission. Once your placed, the agencies generally forget about you. Only about 10% of the people working for agencies are happy about it. Agencies are just money making companies that foreigners set up, so they can live off other people. IMHO

[garrya]

Some good some bad.

[WhamBam]

I don't have any experience with working for an agency, but I have talked with several people who do or did. Their situations were like this:

The agency "helped" them with getting Work Visa, Work Permit, and other documentation. Supposedly, agency folks don't need to worry about getting Teacher's Licenses or waivers, which was at least de-facto true for the people that I knew. They had proper Visas and Work Permits, so as far as I can tell they were working 100% legally. As someone who doesn't work through an agency, let me tell you ... all of that help is actually worth something. I'd love to not have to deal with immigration, Kurusapha, etc.

However, their salary was usually in the high teens or low 20's. Two took home 18,000 baht per month. One I knew got 22,000. Worst example actually took home 12,000 baht per month -- and she was a NES from the US.

In the meantime, all four of these people eventually learned how much the school was paying the agency for them to work there. The 2 taking home 18k and the 1 with 22k were at the same school, but in different years and through different agencies. However, the school was paying 40,000 baht to the agency for them. At the same time, traditionally-hired NES people working directly for the school were making 35,000 baht per month. Everybody there discovered this at the same time halfway through the year or so, when the school left a spreadsheet with salaries in plain sight when everybody came in to pick up their cash. Needless to say, that managed to piss off everybody. Traditionally hired people with years of experience are told they can't get loyalty (or even inflationary) pay raises after years of service, yet the school is fine paying a substantial amount more than they are getting to complete noob agency people (or at least, to their agency) with no experience whatsoever. And the agency people discover that their agency is taking about 50% of their paycheck, presumably justified by all the exhaustive paperwork that has to be done for them. Once. Explosion, reactor meltdown, pretty much everybody quits or does a runner (can't say I blame them).

The one taking home 12,000 baht a month eventually just asked her school how much they were paying her agency. They told her the agency got about 30k per month. 30 for them, 12 for you ... the one actually doing all the work. Nice. However, she was more the meek sort so she finished out her (10 month) contract and then moved to another town to get a directly-hired job making about 3x as much as she had before.

So, before I looked into working for an agency, I'd be very careful about doing my homework and seeing how much they are paying me vs how much the school is paying them. Hassle-free visa and work permit might be nice, but it isn't 20,000 baht per month nice. Of course, if you ask basic questions like "can I contact anyone at the school where I will be working", the agency will be likely to make threats about your visa, etc. to try to keep you from figuring this stuff out until after you've got a contract with them. So maybe it is safer just to say ... steer clear.

The current agency the g/f works for sorts everything. All paperwork, WP. Government holidays and sick leave too. 17,000 Baht p.m. No need to stay all day at school(s) either (3 different schools in a week). No problems with this agency even though she could earn more going direct to the schools. As you say, you have to weigh up the pros and cons of an agency. Yet, she wishes to move on.

She did 3 demos at schools over the last 2 days. Spent time talking to other teachers at the schools. The one closest to our new condo in Pattaya apparently refuses to sort WP out according to other teachers who work there. Obviously not so great.

Research has led to one of her acquaintances knowing of an agency locally and she is waiting to hear about it.

It is a shame about the laws in Thailand regarding naming and shaming and defamation. Else people might be able to find out so much more.

[Loaded]

Its normal for the agency to take 25-50% of your pay as commission. Once your placed, the agencies generally forget about you. Only about 10% of the people working for agencies are happy about it. Agencies are just money making companies that foreigners set up, so they can live off other people. IMHO

Where's your evidence that they take 25-50% and only 10% of people working for them are happy?

Agencies are competinig against each other for contracts. This means their margins are often quite small in order to keep their tender price low.

With so many jobs available in Thailand, if 90% of agency teachers were unhappy, they'd find new jobs independently very easily.

[casualbiker]

So good to see that those with a vast pool of experience are warning others what to look for.

There are a number of reputable agencies here in Thailand and they accept only qualified staff and those staff are working in schools with high standards, those staff are holders of verified degree's, work permits and 12 month contracts with bonus payments at contract end and in some case a golden handshake for signing another contract.

However if you are going to work for a decent agency or school you too have to have the correct background education wise. Properly qualified there are no problems.

Well, that's my experience in my 24 years here in Thailand and being involved in education matters from teacher level to head of school level..

And yet no advice on a few decent agencies for the OP! Strange!

Oh but of course you may have PM'd the information. If so my bad!

[WhamBam]

So good to see that those with a vast pool of experience are warning others what to look for.

There are a number of reputable agencies here in Thailand and they accept only qualified staff and those staff are working in schools with high standards, those staff are holders of verified degree's, work permits and 12 month contracts with bonus payments at contract end and in some case a golden handshake for signing another contract.

However if you are going to work for a decent agency or school you too have to have the correct background education wise. Properly qualified there are no problems.

Well, that's my experience in my 24 years here in Thailand and being involved in education matters from teacher level to head of school level..

And yet no advice on a few decent agencies for the OP! Strange!

Oh but of course you may have PM'd the information. If so my bad!

CB, as it turns out, there have been other ways to crack this nut. And the snowball is gaining size and momentum all the time - so to speak.

The local Thai teachers, school principals and others have been very helpful with advice. There was even dinner with the head of Burapha school in Pattaya. Other options have also become available too.

Early days but there have been 3 schools that have also said they will be back in touch in the near future.

Sometimes that seems to be the way of things. You ask for advice / help on a subject after being stymied and all of a sudden answers flood in from unexpected places.

Edited February 15, 2015 by WhamBam

[siampolee]

casualbiker post # 13

And yet no advice on a few decent agencies for the OP! Strange!

Oh but of course you may have PM'd the information. If so my bad!

Point no.1:

One needs to be aware of the fact that the publication of names etc is somewhat frowned upon for a number of reason.

Point no.2:

If I was asked I would P.M however I wasn't asked so I presume that the comment about being properly qualified may have deterred any requests for further information.

You no doubt will if asked contribute valuable insights into teacher agencies here if you too are asked, or perhaps you already have and I for one missed the posts.

Edited February 16, 2015 by siampolee

[casualbiker]

casualbiker post # 13

And yet no advice on a few decent agencies for the OP! Strange!

Oh but of course you may have PM'd the information. If so my bad!

Point no.1:

One needs to be aware of the fact that the publication of names etc is somewhat frowned upon for a number of reason.

Point no.2:

If I was asked I would P.M however I wasn't asked so I presume that the comment about being properly qualified may have deterred any requests for further information.

You no doubt will if asked contribute valuable insights into teacher agencies here if you too are asked, or perhaps you already have and I for one missed the posts.

Good response. Thank you!

My knowledge of teaching agencies is over 10 years old. But nothing that I've seen or read has changed my opinion!

They have a place for newbies wanting a leg onto the ladder but you have to be extremely careful when dealing with them and their promises. Get everything in writing where possible. And always know that it's their best interests they are thinking about, not yours.

But now with the required teaching waivers you are better off trying to get a direct position where you can see the school and chat to the staff! Because you only get 2 x two year waivers, and they are in your name BUT for only that school!

Edited February 16, 2015 by casualbiker

[Blueyonder]

I know of many and wouldn't trust any of them. Until agencies are registered and have some sort of accreditation then you are taking a risk. If you are a qualified, good teacher you won't have difficulty in finding work. The role of these agencies is to find work for the unqualified! There is nothing stopping anyone coming out of prison or being made bankrupt in their own country and setting in a teaching agency here. I've used agencies in many countries to contract people but these are credible people and companies that have an impeccable reputation internationally, a total contrast to Thailand teaching agencies.

[enufsaid]

Whambam, a reputable agency is ACC, they supply teachers to 100s of public & private schools, the owner also speaks English well & is understanding.

[enufsaid]

ACC is also a credible agency & does not give jobs to anyone who does not have a degree.

[bahlaht]

Stay clear road Experie ce agent they work in with a man named Santipot from Teach to Travel and Supreme Tefl . They promis everything make you pay rent into their account instead of landlors, say theyll get wp but you have to keep doing border runs and dont pay you your holiday pay . The man owes me 58000 baht.

Stay away from these agencies i assure you

[smotherb]

Don't! Go out and find your own job. It takes some legwork and sure some schools have their own set of issues. But agencies are nothing but problems - search the Internet. Read the ad well, much is stated and not stated in their ads. Foreigners running and recruiting in agencies are always bad news. Doubly so if you meet them and they are a manager type rather than teacher type. Camps....just run. Anything part time is illegal work and so is teaching to Chinese over Skype.

Was happiest and worked with best teachers where no agency involved. Agencies are magnets for lazy people.

Agencies wrangle contracts from schools and in many cases you have no choice. Agencies provide the paperwork for schools - that is their real function. Be careful about any agency making high educational claims or standards. Why would you not use industry standard teaching materials? Money, only money.

*Watch out for the ten, eleven month contracts, bonuses that never come based on vague language. Paying your own visa, work permits, etc...

Most of all, you need a visa and wp. If the wp has not arrived by third month, ask to see your processing paperwork and when you will have your wp. AnIf they cant or won't show you, any nonsense, leave. If after three minths and no wp if they cannot demonstrate they are making effort toward your wp, you will teach the year illegally. You will never see it.

There are tins of bad agencies out there now and think nothing of screwing up your visa, wp, license, life, cheating you out of money...looking at the ads this year so far they seem worse, not better.

You have been warned.

Yeah, imagine that, an agency which staffs its management positions with managers.

I've heard all those stories--consistent double-talk, never-appearing WPs, no expense money, reneged contracts, non-enforcable contracts, no paid holidays, no sick leave, no insurance, late paydays, no bonuses, extra hours, extra duties, no classroom support, no supplies, etc., ad infinitum. However, its not just agencies; schools do it too.

[casualbiker]

Don't! Go out and find your own job. It takes some legwork and sure some schools have their own set of issues. But agencies are nothing but problems - search the Internet. Read the ad well, much is stated and not stated in their ads. Foreigners running and recruiting in agencies are always bad news. Doubly so if you meet them and they are a manager type rather than teacher type. Camps....just run. Anything part time is illegal work and so is teaching to Chinese over Skype.

Was happiest and worked with best teachers where no agency involved. Agencies are magnets for lazy people.

Agencies wrangle contracts from schools and in many cases you have no choice. Agencies provide the paperwork for schools - that is their real function. Be careful about any agency making high educational claims or standards. Why would you not use industry standard teaching materials? Money, only money.

*Watch out for the ten, eleven month contracts, bonuses that never come based on vague language. Paying your own visa, work permits, etc...

Most of all, you need a visa and wp. If the wp has not arrived by third month, ask to see your processing paperwork and when you will have your wp. AnIf they cant or won't show you, any nonsense, leave. If after three minths and no wp if they cannot demonstrate they are making effort toward your wp, you will teach the year illegally. You will never see it.

There are tins of bad agencies out there now and think nothing of screwing up your visa, wp, license, life, cheating you out of money...looking at the ads this year so far they seem worse, not better.

You have been warned.

Yeah, imagine that, an agency which staffs its management positions with managers.

I've heard all those stories--consistent double-talk, never-appearing WPs, no expense money, reneged contracts, non-enforcable contracts, no paid holidays, no sick leave, no insurance, late paydays, no bonuses, extra hours, extra duties, no classroom support, no supplies, etc., ad infinitum. However, its not just agencies; schools do it too.

But to a much lesser extent and schools tend to be more worried about problems with the Labour department than agencies do!

[Deserted]

It's hard to answer the OP's question but in general its best to cut out the middleman whenever possible. Agencies operate as a business and not an educational organization. They profit from having a large influx of new teachers, who they can underpay by a number of different means. Some of them are professional and remain true to their word, they may have access to the better schools around the country but many more are exploitative and unscrupulous. It is better to do the work yourself and approach an institute directly as you should never sign a contract with a school/college until you have visited it yourself, met the staff, taken in the ethos and decided if it is right for you.

[nobleman]

I have worked for my agency for 2 years and love it. OP, watch out for disgruntled thailand experts that make blanket statements that all agencies are bad because of a few. That is like all thais saying all farangs are bad because one breaks the law. Look at B**** (acronyms). They always pay on time, handle my visa immediately. I get 42k/mo in 2nd yr then a 38k bonus at end. All teachers are proper degrees. It has western management. I have been offered very low end international school job and high end private school jobs (direct hire) and they cant beat my pay. All our teachers need proper degrees. I teach in EP program. We also offer 10 month contracts for conversational english teaching each school student 1 hr/week so you teach the same lesson all week. We have drivers when we have out of town seminars

[aarontendo]

Yeah if it's the agency I'm thinking of I can say that I've never heard horror stories about it, which may be as much of an approval as we'll get in the community =)

[Mencken]

If this is the agency I've heard of, I've read nothing but problems and the teachers Id met working for it say that the promises are hollow. Its also a warm body service. So you get 42k that's pretty much impossible for most agencies as they start at 33-35k. So you must have been there awhile. A usual suspect.

A measure of a solid agency should be its retention. It should have low turnover, not just lazy teachers with plumb job posts. A mark of a total crap agency is incessant posting everywhere trying to claw as many teachers as possible like some army recruiter sending the fodder to the front lines. Also gimmicky stuff like offering an extra few K per month, but then reducing pay to 10-11 mos or subjective bonuses. Guaranteed problems.

Retention and stability are hallmarks of ANY well run business. Teachers either font know for lack of real world experience, lazy or just stupid. High turnover? Yup, your agency and your Head Teacher SUCK.

Its well known if nothing else, agencies push teachers out when the pay rises become more than the prixe they can get fresh meat for.

Contracts are only as good as the thieves that write them. Agencies do not do the right thing, they do the money thing. Every agency is a business and none and I do mean none have snything to do with education. In fact the more sny agency boasts of education, the worse it is.

The longer someone has been with an agency, the less you can trust them. I guarantee. My experience in Taiwan was any farang involved in the process of recruiting was wholly suspect. I would include Head Teachers in Thailand as well.

Thailand has a very peculiar concrpt of libel which prevents people from speaking out. On all teaching boards there is blanket statements forbidding people speaking the truth. How convenient.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Mencken

[nobleman]

Merc, does your reading comprehension suck or are you a liar? I specifically said i am in my 2nd yr in the EP program. My salary is the same as everyone else's in EP for your 2nd yr. i also mentioned i have been interviewing with other schools. I am no lifer nor head teacher nor hiring personel. You dont have friends in my position because if you did, they would have told you they make the same as me. I also mentioned there is another teacher position the agency has which is 33-35k that teaches each student in school, 1 hour a week, thus teaching 2 lessons, 10 times each. EP and this position are night and day different. Very very few schools in thailand really care about education. This is not the west. My current agency honors what is in the contract. This is thailand, never trust promises

[quandow]

I can only report what I've seen, and I can say 100% of teachers with whom I've spoken that were involved with agencies rued the decision. That isn't to say that some people could possibly have a good experience, but in my eight years teaching in Thailand, everyone I know who tried an agency said, "Never again!"

[Mencken]

Nobleman, not happy with 42k and a great agency - interviewing at other schools. Got it.

One thing that we know with utmost certanity is there is no agency thought to be a great place to work. I would further venture that the older the agency is and the longer the management is in place, the worse it is. There is no agency in.Thailsnd with even a mediocre reputation. They have had years to build a reputation but that reputation is negative to nonexistent. I can ghink of a few that are the atrocious.

Saying you get paid (on time) is a joke. Like this is negotiable. Just like the Craig's ads running..."guaranteed to get paid". Lol, this is so funny. Run.

Its not that agencies could not be above board, they choose not to be. The overhead and profit is ridiculous. I seriously hope there is no wonder why they cannot get decent people to employ when paying 30-40k a month for 160 hours and maybe addl activities. That's why its all just a game.

How many directors is the teacher base supporting? How msny staff? This is the real problem, non contributors. There are sales snd there are teachers. After that, its just waste.

Why is there no solid agency in Thailand? Same as there is none in Taiwan, Korea, Vietnam... Its a mugs game.

High turn over, short contracts, no paid holidays during the actual year, vague contracts...its churn and burn.

Ironically some agrncies will find that the fresh meat has long gone amd they are left with the people who they burned. So you see the desperate attempts at wrangling the fresh meat on Craig's, Aj and thise inspid tefl boards.

But the best are the ones that want you to pay for a tefl class and then find you a 20k job in Buriram sans wp.

Vietnam, Korea even China offer a better deal.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Mencken

[laurenrebecca]

I have worked for 2 of the agencies in question here....Mediakids and Echo English.

1. Mediakids I DO NOT RECOMMEND. I almost got arrested due to paperwork not being done on time that they were responsible for. They also told me in writing (which I do have a copy of, and can verify for all you nay-sayers) to overstay my visa, it will be OK. Please PM me and I will share more details. Their communication is not great, and it is difficult t5o get things done, as all decisions are made in Bangkok, and the consultants that visit you generally pay lip service anyway. Worked for them for 2 years unfortunately due to the contract with school being written the way it was, and I did not want to leave my school. The school paid an insane amount of money to them as well. I was making 33,000, and the school was paying 52,500 per month....so they were pocketing 20k a month for overhead and 'expenses of running a business'. I called them out on it, and no longer work for them.......

2. Echo English I did my TEFL course through in Krabi several years ago, and still stay in contact with them now. I personally know 3 of the owners, and they do what they can to make things right. It is a young company, but they have their act together. The owners are Thai, British and Australian for the ones I know, and they do well with followup and keep up with paperwork deadlines for work permit, visa, teaching license etc from what I have heard. Never had a problem with them at all.

3. The last agency, which is the one my school now uses, is OEG. They help with initial paperwork for visa and work permit / teaching license, but then you are more or less on your own. The BIG plus to them is that you can sign direct with the school after your first term. OEG only takes a 1-time finders fee for the paperwork and getting you the teacher. The staff is nice, and all of them are bilingual. The manager is an American, really nice guy.