UK immigration. What would happen if..?

[durhamboy]

7by7 :-

1. Your modus operandi appears to be to post as much as possible on a subject so that the real issues are obscured i.e. a smoke and mirrors approach. Please tell everyone in a nutshell why you think it is not easy for a Romanian to exercise his/her right to come to the UK under EC Directive 2004/38?

2. Why do you ask what have I got against Romanians? I have nothing against Romanians. I said in a post above that I don't blame them for this situation. I used to work with 2 Romanians and they were very hard working. Once again you are introducing things into this debate that are personal, untrue and irrelevant.

3. You not qualifying to be a judge is again irrelevant. You, as far as I know, have never wanted to be a judge. Some people want visas but cannot get them because the rules are unfair. That is the point.

4. I really cannot understand your point about the US and Australia. Yes there may be things in their immigration system that make the process harder than the UK. Frankly I don't know and neither do I think do you really know. In order to access their immigration processes with the UK's then you have to look at the all the rules and regulations for all aspects of immigration. However, one thing I am certain of, the USA would never sign a treaty that allowed the whole of Mexico the right to come and live in the US!

5. I am NOT complaining that EEA nationals find it easier to settle in the UK than non-EEA nationals. Yet again you are distorting what I said. Read my post above in response to Donutz - I said that in essence the EU directive was a good thing. It falls down where the EU has expanded to include countries whose economies are not in sych with those of Western Europe like the UK - such as Romania.

6. You say that taking the Home Office to court is not the same as actively campaigning and lobbying. You are right, it is a hell of a lot harder and stressful to take an organisation to court. You asked me what have I done and I told you. You then sneer at it from your ivory tower because you once gave some evidence to a parliamentary working group on migration. Get over yourself 7by7!

7. Dear oh dear 7by7 your last pathetic comment really does take the WOW (W**ker Of the Week) Award for the most ridiculous comment. Firstly, I have NEVER said that settlement requirements should apply to everyone except Thai partners of British citizens. You say that I have said that on several occasions because you remember. Ok prove it! Tell everyone where I am supposed to have said that and then maybe they will take you seriously. Truth is you can't!

You close by saying that you will not respond to me anymore on this topic. This always seems to be your exit route when you know you are on a sticky wicket. It is up to you to reply or not however if you choose not to reply then I think most people, including myself, will take it that you are unable to answer the points I have made.

Edited March 19, 2015 by durhamboy

[7by7]

Durhamboy, I did say that I have said all I have to say to you, but you have raised a couple of points which need addressing and asked me a direct question; so:-

7by7 :-

Your modus operandi appears to be to post as much as possible on a subject so that the real issues are obscured i.e. a smoke and mirrors approach. Please tell everyone in a nutshell why you think it is not easy for a Romanian to exercise his/her right to come to the UK under EC Directive 2004/38?

I did tell everyone in a nutshell; you refused to accept that so I directed you to the rules and regulations themselves.

Why do you ask what have I got against Romanians? I have nothing against Romanians.......

Really? See later on in this post.

Dear oh dear 7by7 your last pathetic comment really does take the WOW (W**ker Of the Week) Award for the most ridiculous comment. Firstly, I have NEVER said that settlement requirements should apply to everyone except Thai partners of British citizens. You say that I have said that on several occasions because you remember. Ok prove it! Tell everyone where I am supposed to have said that and then maybe they will take you seriously. Truth is you can't!

One example is your attitude to the TB test; from this post:

Before starting this next post please remember that my original comments that kicked this whole thing off was the nonsense of TB testing for Thai settlement visa applications. I make no comment on the merits of testing other long-term visa applicants such as students......

So you are saying that for settlement applicants, who are mainly spouses or partners, no TB test; for others such as students you don't care.

Frankly the whole rationale for TB testing of settlement applicants from Thailand has more holes than a packet of polo mints!

Why just Thailand? As was pointed out to you in that topic, Thailand is one of many countries where the incidence of TB is high enough to cause concern and so require this test. If the system 'has more holes than a packet of polo mints' then it is flawed everywhere, not just Thailand. But you don't care about other countries, only Thailand.

You continue in this one:

Maybe there should be tests for people from other countries but, as you know, my comments were purely about the absurdity of testing Thai settlement visa applicants.

So, according to you, TB tests for applicants in Thailand are absurd, but tests for people from other countries are not.

Further on in that topic I asked you "why do you think TB testing in Thailand is absurd, but perfectly acceptable in other countries; e.g. South Africa?"

Your answer was: At the risk of repeating myself, as you well know, my comments were about Thailand settlement visa applicants

Again showing that you only care when it effects you or your wife directly.

Finally, in that topic you bang on and on about Romanians not being tested, whilst Thais are; despite the fact that, according to WHO figures YOU first produced, the incidence of TB in Thailand, at 119 per 1000, is higher than that of Romania, 94 per 1000 (source.)

You complain at every opportunity about Romanians exercising their economic treaty rights in the UK; yet you claim to have nothing against Romanians!

All that in just one topic; there are others where you have said similar..

Therefore, I do feel that my comment "Having said all that, the main reason why I find it difficult, if not impossible, to take you seriously is because you have posted on several occasions that you feel the settlement requirements should apply to everyone except the Thai partners of British citizens! (See, I can remember what you post.)

In other words, you are looking at this from a purely selfish position; whereas I, and many others, want a fair and equitable system for all; not just our partners" is entirely justified by what you have posted in the past.

Apologies to everyone else for this lengthy, off topic post; but he did ask, nay demand, that I provide this proof of what he has said before.

[durhamboy]

7by7 - I'll try and keep this as short as possible.

1. You have not given any specific reason in this topic why you think that it is not easy for a Romanian to come to the UK under the directive. I have re-read all your posts here. Relevant posts are #49 - where you just talk blandly about there being criteria, #55 - where you just talk blandly about there being requirements, and #58 where you posted 4 lengthy links (2 of which are the same!).

Nowhere here have you said in a nutshell the specific reasons why you think it is not easy for Romanians (or East Europeans for that matter) to come here. Perhaps you gave these reasons in another topic and perhaps I missed what you said. I am therefore asking you again - please state the reasons in a couple of sentences.

2. You seem to think that I don't like Romanians because they are not tested for TB and they exercise their economic rights! What utter rubbish. What I don't like is our government giving such rights to people whose economies are not in sych with ours whilst making it difficult for Brits to bring their wives to the UK. Get it? As for TB tests - I never said Romanians should be tested. I fail to understand your logic where you think that because I don't agree with HMG policy towards nationals of another country then somehow I don't like said nationals! Words fail me!

3. 7by7 you said in post #58 that I said "settlement requirements should apply to everyone except the Thai partners of British citizens!" Again this is nonsense. I never said that. All you can do to try and substantiate your accusation is lift a few comments I made about the absurdity of checking Thai people for TB. If you recall I substantiated my remarks at that time and then you started asking me about the testing of TB in certain other countries e.g. South Africa. I told you that I didn't know the real situation in those countries and therefore I couldn't comment. Your warped logic extrapolates that comment to be that my position is that only Thais should be excluded from TB testing and therefore settlement requirements should apply to everyone except the Thai partners of British citizens! Again, utter rubbish 7by7 and you do yourself a disservice in taking being disingenous to new depths.

I also note that you make no comments about my responses to the other pathetic points you made. You seem just to cherry-pick those responses where you think you can make a point. Ok that's your privilege but I'll just take it that you agree with me on those issues.

7by7 I am quite happy to continue this debate with you in PMs. I don't think anyone else in this forum is really interested in our bickering.

[7by7]

I said that there were criteria which had to be met for Romanians, and all other EEA nationals, who wished to exercise their treaty right to live in the UK; you refused to except that statement, so I provided the evidence.

That you don't like that evidence because it proves you wrong is your problem, not mine.

You demanded quotes to show your attitude, I provided them. I used the TB testing topic as an example of that attitude; there are others.. As your posts in that topic show, if something effects the Thai partner of a British citizen; you care. If it effects applicants of a different nationality or a different category of visa, you don't care.

That you are now desperately backpedalling doesn't change that.

I also said that I had said all I have to say to you on this subject, and only made my previous post to deal with two new points you raised and to answer a specific question. I did not address your restatement of your other points as I had already answered them and I have no desire to go over the same old ground yet again.

Therefore, I definitely wont be responding to you any further in this topic; you have nothing new to say, only weak attempts to justify what you have previously stated.

If you feel that is some sort of petty victory for you; do so.

Edited March 20, 2015 by 7by7

[Paul888]

Paul;

People have successfully done as you suggest; wife comes to UK as a visitor while husband works for 6 months to meet the financial requirement.

Wife then returns to Thailand at the expiry of the visit visa to apply for settlement.

The problem, as you say, is convincing the ECO that she will, indeed, do this and not overstay illegally in the UK at the end of the visit.

Make it plain in your covering letter for the visit visa application that she is accompanying you to the UK as a visitor while you satisfy the settlement financial requirement to avoid separating the family for a lengthy period and that you are both aware of the rules and will abide by them.

7by7, your advice was spot on as always. Thank you.

I went ahead with the totally honest "submitting a settlement visa is the long term plan, but I need to spend a few months in the UK first to get organized for that and I don't want to be separated from my family while I do so" approach and I am happy to say that the visa was granted in 3 working days. As you suggested, I made a specific point of stating that I understood the rules and that we would comply with them both in the additional notes to the application section, and in my personal letter in support of the visa.

From a personal point of view, I think the service at VFS/UK embassy has been fantastic. I was initially worried that you no longer get the chance to personally present your documents to an ECO as was the case 10+ years ago when I last applied for a visa for somebody, but with hindsight, I think that having to sit down and take the time to put all the points that you would like to make clearly in writing could actually be better. At least it seems that applications and all enclosures are fully read and considered, which means that if we are properly prepared and ensure that our applications directly address any concerns that an ECO might have, we all have a reasonably good chance of success.