Is this a condominium bargain……… or a sign of difficult times?

[Friendly Stranger]

I am noticing in the Pattaya condominium market some developers are now offering their properties for sale on the basis that the developer will guarantee a minimum rental over a fixed number of years.Of course this is not a new idea and in fact rental guarantees have been criticised harshly by some sceptics.

But some developers are even going as far as also offering to purchase the property back after a certain period at the original purchase price. And for commitment to an even longer period of ownership in some cases they are offering to purchase the property back at a higher price in the future than the sale price now.

Im quite intrigued as to what is making some developers do this. Is it simply a way of them increasingly liquidity to allow them to develop even more buildings? Are real estate developers now finding it more difficult to raise finance through conventional means so this way they can recoup working capital even if its only temporary.

But I also wonder what are the risks to the buyer? For example all I seem to hear about now is the growing prospect of deflation in the global economy. A bit like what happened in Japan after 1990 and ever since then that prices slowly deflated and then stagnated. Like air escaping from a tyre.

Under this kind of scenario, how would the real estate development company be able to afford to buy back a property in the future at a higher price if in the meantime real market prices have gone down.

I certainly think prospective buyers and the lawyers will more than any time before need to carefully read the fine print before signing any contract.

Im just wondering if any TV members here have been presented with this opportunity and whether they think its a good idea or not?

There must be loads of fine print and I agree what someone has said, the company must still be solvent with the addition of jumping through hoops of fire and wrestling alligators. But yes, it sounds as if it's a harder sale than before

Edited March 12, 2015 by Friendly Stranger

[mick01827]

Developers are very confident because of the future in pattaya, I suggest you talk to people and do some research then you'll understand why they're so confident

[Asiantravel]

Where is this proposed ?

It's not proposed........ they are actually doing it now

Actually my neighbour has just started working for them doing this. I won't name the specific company but it's in the Pratumnak area.

He is now working full-time trying to find buyers in places like China and Korea because apparently (according to his employers) these two nationalities have already been buying condominiums as investments in Pattaya and there are high expectations that they will be an adequate substitute for the Russians who have left the scene.

I'm intrigued as to how they will identify overseas buyers anyway.

I just dont see the Koreans or Chinese as long term residents like the Russians were...The main times you see them is when they are following the flag.

Yes. That is how I interpret things also. And yet in an article in the Bangkok Post on 1 Feb 2015 (which obviously I’m unable to post here) one of the better-known developers said “Chinese investors have become big players in real estate markets across the globe, and Thailand will be no different”.

But then in the following line another real estate expert acknowledged “the Chinese visitors are often travelling in large groups, with their itineraries dictated by tour guides “

It’s clear that the entire Pattaya real estate industry including real estate developers and agents are banking heavily on Chinese ( and Korean )being a substitute for Russians and I just simply can’t see the comparison. It’s entirely different group of people with an entirely different financial parameters. For example I can’t imagine the Chinese would be happy to sit on “ investment “ properties that are not generating permanent and consistent returns which is not the case with the holiday market in Pattaya.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Asiantravel

[NickJ]

If you want a house or condo to live in and enjoy pride in ownership....decorating and a pool or garden to work in......go for it and enjoy.....However if you are buying for investment or even the chance at a decent equity.....FORGET IT. If your lucky you will be able to sell for what you have paid for...

That being said I have seen people make decent profits but those days are now far and few between.

[Asiantravel]

Developers are very confident because of the future in pattaya, I suggest you talk to people and do some research then you'll understand why they're so confident

Why don't you tell us?

And no matter how confident developers are about the future in Pattaya it doesn't overcome the economic reality that the entire world is currently awash with debt.Average people haven't got the money ( or the buying power with the currencies) anymore they had even one or two years ago.

From bust to boom: How the world became addicted to debt

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11458161/From-bust-to-boom-How-the-world-became-addicted-to-debt.html

Edited March 12, 2015 by Asiantravel

[Bkungbank]

It should promote to Chinese rich tourist as Russian are staying away due to internal problems, Promoted second home to vacation to Chinese buyers are many of them are rich now.

[CapeThai]

This is typical promises of a company wanting to cash in and move on to another industry....under a new company name

By the time the shit hits the fan they are long gone and so is their commitments....

I'm not saying this is what these specific developers have up their sleeves. It's only what I have seen happening in various other industries

[Asiantravel]

It should promote to Chinese rich tourist as Russian are staying away due to internal problems, Promoted second home to vacation to Chinese buyers are many of them are rich now.

yeah well............such rich Chinese tourists were promised good deals in Portugal as well but they didn't get what they bargained for

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-03/chinese-rushing-to-buy-property-for-portugal-visas-get-burned

[Asiantravel]

Problems with buying condos in Thailand

1. Visas are a pain now

2. Oversupply, they just keep building condos as that is the only thing they know how to do

3. Up keep: Management money rarely goes towards fixing broken elevators, pool care or making the lobby and hallways look good. Try reselling a condo in a run down looking building with a broken elevator.

There are exceptions. Properties connected to hotel chains would be safe if affordable.

Rents are so cheap, buying seems like a hassle.

" There are exceptions. Properties connected to hotel chains would be safe if affordable. "

But for how long will they be safe if a large number of buyers return in the future and demand their original asking price back plus the increases on top of that as promised by the company if we are in a global deflationary scenario?

[kinmaew]

Property in Thailand, making money you think? try lotto instead or just give it all to Noi now and be done with your savings.

[Borzandy]

"offering their properties for sale on the basis that the developer will guarantee" Thailand the dreamworld.

[1FinickyOne]

Guarantees need an "or"…. guaranteed to buy back or… what? How can this be reasonably enforced other than with an escrow account - is that offered?

Where else can this type of guarantee exist - - in the stock market - no.

It just sounds like another difficult to enforce sales gimmick or a planned potential bankruptcy… and might be another sign of a bubble...

[does]

This senior member knows a lot more about real estate than I do, but I do find his sweeping generalizations and his tone ("I am totally right and can look into the future") a bit offensive.

1. If you like living in Pattaya and want to buy a condo, you can find a decent place for a million baht. If you don't plan to "flip" it but just want to live out your years here, by all means, buy it. There are not many beach-side cities in the world when you can buy a condo for that kind of money.

2. If you live in the EU or the US, and if (as the Senior Member predicts) the western economies crash, it's not bad to have a roof over your head in Thailand, where you can live an a very low budget if needed. If we get a global depression, I'd rather be in Pattaya than in, say, Paris.

3. It could very wel be that property and land prices in Pattaya will decline in the future, but that could happen anywhere. Anyone who has lived in or frequently visited Pattaya in the past ten years will know that traffic is getting worse every year. Not exactly a sign of a city in decline.

I remember getting into a nasty debate with "Dirty Dog" of Teak door forum. ( I think that at that time he owned the forum and didn't we posters know it)

Some time ago about 4/5 years ago I had the audacity to say on that forum, that with the Western world economies floundering the price of Pattaya land would ether remain stable, depreciate or collapse completely

The reason I felt that it would remain stable without any real increase in value was because of the hold, those with the money power and investment in the area would not allow any serious depreciation of Pattaya land values just by simply holding onto their investment because they were exceedingly rich, please read over capitalised, and unaffected by possibly short term fluctuations in the land values .

This is in effect IMHO is a right and proper way of maintaining any investment as long as one's main capital is unaffected and business can be continued semi normally .

I say semi normally because Pattaya has always been the odd one out, the sex capital of the world and once the place where thousands of men (and some women) from all over the world came to satiate their sexual desires because it was cheap, cheerful and the ladies were the most beautiful, of course the Yanks had led the way into making this place the most promiscuous place on Earth but that is another story

in other words the big boys are waiting for the market to return, hopefully before the inevitable crash that comes when the world economies do not recover in time and Pattaya becomes a wasteland of half built and empty building.

Unfortunately this has not happened and here we are some five years later still not really understanding just what is going on in Pattaya or like DD of the Teak door forum having so much invested in Pattaya that He could not face up to the fact that Pattaya is slowly dying a death.

For those with tooooooo much investment in Pattaya unable to face up to the reality that I see in the place on a daily basis just look at the numbers of tourists from the more wealthy parts of the world who are simply not coming here anymore to marry into the culture and become the lifeblood of Pattaya by eventually becoming in the scheme of things local "wealthy"residential ExPats.

Go out in the dark side and see many geriatric and older old farts like Costas and I

The only younger semi ExPats are the offshore workers who make up the clientele of the bars, cafes.

I can only think that the powers that be are closing their eyes and ears to what is going on in the world at large.

The only tourist of plenty I see are the Chinese and the Arabs widely know for their inability to part with any real cash money!

I was in discussion with a like minded friend the other day who used the argument that the Thais were getting ready for the mass immigration to Pattaya and to Thailand when the barriers finally come down with the opening of the borders and boundaries to the Assian Community.

in that the building that seems to be completely out of sync or sensible control with the demand at this moment in time will be justified when the masses arrive.

In other words the writing is on the wall for me at any rate and there will be at this moment in time some properties where the builders, owners ,may be in dire circumstances and possibly taking a big cut in asking prices for their properties.

To summarise and go to the reason for the OP

If I were a customer for a condo or indeed any property in Pattaya I would be waiting a year or so to see what the effect of the opening of the borders has on the value of properties in this area and possibly taking advantage of the reduction in rentals that is now becoming more apparent especially since the void left by the Russians has left many properties in the jomtien area with a question mark over them as well as many properties that have been vacated by them

[mikiea]

You are assuming that the 'Real Estate Development Company' will still exist when the time comes to honour these buy back 'promises'.

They are company promises not personal ones.

this is called a "tell" , these companies have no intention of being around when you want to "sell" back to them. check out the time clause in all these contracts. there is a point in all "sales" companies when it is ok to fold up, sell,or runaway. very few are in it for the long haul. but they are some. but i doubt they are buying anything back & giving you extra money, that is just foolish to think that :-)

[Benmart]

I am not a real estate expert or a Thai contractual law attorney.

From experience, real estate here is a mine field, bereft with trip wires, puni-stick pits and dead ends. There are good deals and bad.The challenge is being able to negotiate through the dishonest, corrupt and deceptive practices.

If one is adventurous, finds a good attorney and has cash to "play with", then it can be an experience. Good luck my friend.

[elgordo38]

If the Developer doesn't perform as promised you can hire a Thai lawyer and fight it all the way to the Supreme Court for 5 years.

Fun.

Good luck finding a Thai lawyer that you can trust.

Or afford for 5 years.

[n210mp]

Developers are very confident because of the future in pattaya, I suggest you talk to people and do some research then you'll understand why they're so confident

Could you please tell me who I could speak to and where would I do the research and

maybe you could also supply a link to any resource that confirms what you are saying in your post ?

With the greatest respect your post contains nothing more that pure optimism for maybe something you want to happen.

I also suggest if you need to ask the people then you should ask the people in Pattaya who are being effected on a daily basis by the world economic recession and its effects.and the low numbers of free spenders that came not from China or India, Pakistan but from Europe and the USA

Also when you are asking you could also mention about the low exchange rate that is now making Pattaya an expensive place to live unless of course you can exist on a Thai diet and I dont decry your Thai diet but ask many of the older Ex pats now living here if economically f they will still be here in say 5 years time (because of the continuing bad exchange rate for the Western currencies against the Thai Baht)

There are a always those who want to "talk up" the state of business especially in a recession, its a normal phenomena.

There are those in this town who have sunk their entire life and savings into the place and any other thoughts other than optimistic ones are , well unthinkable.

Your post echoes the sentiments exactly of what I am referring to.

[mango66]

There is a BIG oversupply of Condominiums;

The russians have problem to pay there installments;

The westerners not coming like before;

The guarantated rental income for 3 years is already included in the sales price;

So any rental in this 2 - 3 years would be just more profit fore the developer !!

You pay first full price of the unit, your rental you get back a year and more later,

so that is for them a free credit ( credit rates 7-8% ) -

Yyou get it ?

Instaed of Credit they use your money,

rental income will also not reach 8% , you will find out later !

Most Developers working like a " Snowball effect !

They selling a new project, where they will not start to build, before their earlier Condo is not finished

for full cash in;

To finish the early one, they need your 50% dowpayment from the next Condo,

Just when that finished , so they get the 2nd 50% , they will start building with the next one,

pardon, they start before, a show room, a bagger which digging and some huts

of Burmese workers, which work on the other to finish first !

You nothing get free !

All sale back and so , as increasing prices are BS !!

No one want buy 2nd hand units, as no or very difficult credits for 2nd hand units;

If buy new, feel comfortable with 2 - 3 years ( mostly calculate dubble time than priomised )

dow-payment, you finished your 50% - you wait and wait and wait !!! maybee 2 - 3 years,

some never finish, and you will never get back your money !

Read your contracts !!

You will never get any real guarantee !!

Ask for penalty if not finished in time !!

Ypou will see your contract only promise a finishing time !!

or I had: you pay 1% p month on delay payment, if more than 3 month, you loose all !!

The developer will pay if delayed by his fault - you never will be able to show that it is his fault -

0,01%% , max for 6 0r 12 months !!

So you pay in default 12% p anno, he pays 0,012% !!!!

Nothing is free of charge !!

Only good deals if someone need cash and sell his unit on time pressure !

But still you would pay more than Condos are really worth !

In comparison to building standard - Condos are 50% overpriced !

A developer whom I know very well, whispered me,

if he cash in 50% dowpayment - he is equal, the rest is profit !!

[Asiantravel]

This senior member knows a lot more about real estate than I do, but I do find his sweeping generalizations and his tone ("I am totally right and can look into the future") a bit offensive.

1. If you like living in Pattaya and want to buy a condo, you can find a decent place for a million baht. If you don't plan to "flip" it but just want to live out your years here, by all means, buy it. There are not many beach-side cities in the world when you can buy a condo for that kind of money.

2. If you live in the EU or the US, and if (as the Senior Member predicts) the western economies crash, it's not bad to have a roof over your head in Thailand, where you can live an a very low budget if needed. If we get a global depression, I'd rather be in Pattaya than in, say, Paris.

3. It could very wel be that property and land prices in Pattaya will decline in the future, but that could happen anywhere. Anyone who has lived in or frequently visited Pattaya in the past ten years will know that traffic is getting worse every year. Not exactly a sign of a city in decline.

I remember getting into a nasty debate with "Dirty Dog" of Teak door forum. ( I think that at that time he owned the forum and didn't we posters know it)

Some time ago about 4/5 years ago I had the audacity to say on that forum, that with the Western world economies floundering the price of Pattaya land would ether remain stable, depreciate or collapse completely

The reason I felt that it would remain stable without any real increase in value was because of the hold, those with the money power and investment in the area would not allow any serious depreciation of Pattaya land values just by simply holding onto their investment because they were exceedingly rich, please read over capitalised, and unaffected by possibly short term fluctuations in the land values .

This is in effect IMHO is a right and proper way of maintaining any investment as long as one's main capital is unaffected and business can be continued semi normally .

I say semi normally because Pattaya has always been the odd one out, the sex capital of the world and once the place where thousands of men (and some women) from all over the world came to satiate their sexual desires because it was cheap, cheerful and the ladies were the most beautiful, of course the Yanks had led the way into making this place the most promiscuous place on Earth but that is another story

in other words the big boys are waiting for the market to return, hopefully before the inevitable crash that comes when the world economies do not recover in time and Pattaya becomes a wasteland of half built and empty building.

Unfortunately this has not happened and here we are some five years later still not really understanding just what is going on in Pattaya or like DD of the Teak door forum having so much invested in Pattaya that He could not face up to the fact that Pattaya is slowly dying a death.

For those with tooooooo much investment in Pattaya unable to face up to the reality that I see in the place on a daily basis just look at the numbers of tourists from the more wealthy parts of the world who are simply not coming here anymore to marry into the culture and become the lifeblood of Pattaya by eventually becoming in the scheme of things local "wealthy"residential ExPats.

Go out in the dark side and see many geriatric and older old farts like Costas and I

The only younger semi ExPats are the offshore workers who make up the clientele of the bars, cafes.

I can only think that the powers that be are closing their eyes and ears to what is going on in the world at large.

The only tourist of plenty I see are the Chinese and the Arabs widely know for their inability to part with any real cash money!

I was in discussion with a like minded friend the other day who used the argument that the Thais were getting ready for the mass immigration to Pattaya and to Thailand when the barriers finally come down with the opening of the borders and boundaries to the Assian Community.

in that the building that seems to be completely out of sync or sensible control with the demand at this moment in time will be justified when the masses arrive.

In other words the writing is on the wall for me at any rate and there will be at this moment in time some properties where the builders, owners ,may be in dire circumstances and possibly taking a big cut in asking prices for their properties.

To summarise and go to the reason for the OP

If I were a customer for a condo or indeed any property in Pattaya I would be waiting a year or so to see what the effect of the opening of the borders has on the value of properties in this area and possibly taking advantage of the reduction in rentals that is now becoming more apparent especially since the void left by the Russians has left many properties in the jomtien area with a question mark over them as well as many properties that have been vacated by them

“ will know that traffic is getting worse every year. Not exactly a sign of a city in decline.”

Well I definitely don’t consider that is a sign of a city being on the " up and up"?

If the traffic is getting worse every year it suggests to me that they haven’t got the money or the know how to improve the infrastructure sufficiently to meet such increased traffic?

Edited March 12, 2015 by Asiantravel

[razer]

^{Buyer Beware!} Enough said.

[mango66]

You are assuming that the 'Real Estate Development Company' will still exist when the time comes to honour these buy back 'promises'.

They are company promises not personal ones.

ThaidDown is exactly correct. The developer may be bankrupt by the time it proposes to buy back the units.

anyway ! he proposes - that means in businissworl nothing !

Guarantee would be a LC from a main bank !!

for cash in in 5 years with 150% on value of your purchase price !

Good luck, if you ask this from a developer, that he will not call police to put you in cracy house !!

[n210mp]

This senior member knows a lot more about real estate than I do, but I do find his sweeping generalizations and his tone ("I am totally right and can look into the future") a bit offensive.

1. If you like living in Pattaya and want to buy a condo, you can find a decent place for a million baht. If you don't plan to "flip" it but just want to live out your years here, by all means, buy it. There are not many beach-side cities in the world when you can buy a condo for that kind of money.

2. If you live in the EU or the US, and if (as the Senior Member predicts) the western economies crash, it's not bad to have a roof over your head in Thailand, where you can live an a very low budget if needed. If we get a global depression, I'd rather be in Pattaya than in, say, Paris.

3. It could very wel be that property and land prices in Pattaya will decline in the future, but that could happen anywhere. Anyone who has lived in or frequently visited Pattaya in the past ten years will know that traffic is getting worse every year. Not exactly a sign of a city in decline.

I remember getting into a nasty debate with "Dirty Dog" of Teak door forum. ( I think that at that time he owned the forum and didn't we posters know it)

Some time ago about 4/5 years ago I had the audacity to say on that forum, that with the Western world economies floundering the price of Pattaya land would ether remain stable, depreciate or collapse completely

The reason I felt that it would remain stable without any real increase in value was because of the hold, those with the money power and investment in the area would not allow any serious depreciation of Pattaya land values just by simply holding onto their investment because they were exceedingly rich, please read over capitalised, and unaffected by possibly short term fluctuations in the land values .

This is in effect IMHO is a right and proper way of maintaining any investment as long as one's main capital is unaffected and business can be continued semi normally .

I say semi normally because Pattaya has always been the odd one out, the sex capital of the world and once the place where thousands of men (and some women) from all over the world came to satiate their sexual desires because it was cheap, cheerful and the ladies were the most beautiful, of course the Yanks had led the way into making this place the most promiscuous place on Earth but that is another story

in other words the big boys are waiting for the market to return, hopefully before the inevitable crash that comes when the world economies do not recover in time and Pattaya becomes a wasteland of half built and empty building.

Unfortunately this has not happened and here we are some five years later still not really understanding just what is going on in Pattaya or like DD of the Teak door forum having so much invested in Pattaya that He could not face up to the fact that Pattaya is slowly dying a death.

For those with tooooooo much investment in Pattaya unable to face up to the reality that I see in the place on a daily basis just look at the numbers of tourists from the more wealthy parts of the world who are simply not coming here anymore to marry into the culture and become the lifeblood of Pattaya by eventually becoming in the scheme of things local "wealthy"residential ExPats.

Go out in the dark side and see many geriatric and older old farts like Costas and I

The only younger semi ExPats are the offshore workers who make up the clientele of the bars, cafes.

I can only think that the powers that be are closing their eyes and ears to what is going on in the world at large.

The only tourist of plenty I see are the Chinese and the Arabs widely know for their inability to part with any real cash money!

I was in discussion with a like minded friend the other day who used the argument that the Thais were getting ready for the mass immigration to Pattaya and to Thailand when the barriers finally come down with the opening of the borders and boundaries to the Assian Community.

in that the building that seems to be completely out of sync or sensible control with the demand at this moment in time will be justified when the masses arrive.

In other words the writing is on the wall for me at any rate and there will be at this moment in time some properties where the builders, owners ,may be in dire circumstances and possibly taking a big cut in asking prices for their properties.

To summarise and go to the reason for the OP

If I were a customer for a condo or indeed any property in Pattaya I would be waiting a year or so to see what the effect of the opening of the borders has on the value of properties in this area and possibly taking advantage of the reduction in rentals that is now becoming more apparent especially since the void left by the Russians has left many properties in the jomtien area with a question mark over them as well as many properties that have been vacated by them

Please try and I know its hard at times not to personalise a posters point of view as being somehow "not allowed, not PC, offensive or simply wrong"

My point of view ,

whatever you think of me personally is my point of view and I think that I posted it without any malice or rancour, maybe you could give me a little respect by allowing me to have my point of view, maybe at the same time you could say what bit from my post you particularly thought was offensive?

Your point of view as stated in your post gives me an idea of where the differences are between us but I will not diminish you or your posts by resorting to personal comments bringing you into any disrepute with others who may not know or have not met you.

On your post I will say this though;

If you are going to rely on income generated from saving or investments from abroad to live in your house in pattaya I think I can safely say that you are in for a shock and can expect to live at the lowest common denominator, maybe not now but when the knot begins to tighten ....well!

However if you have been over here many years and you have invested wisely and have maybe Thai income from your Thai business than I feel that you may fare well.

Oh and just one final thing if you find my "generalisations" offensive then stay around because you have a lot of skin to add to your rather thin skinned back.

I am pretty tame when it come to offending people just stick around kiddo you aint seen nothin yet from some of the posters on here!

My generalisations incidentally come from a lifetime within the property business and watching trend, recession and so called upturns, what are your qualifications if your are questioning mine?

And please notice that not once in my reply to your post was I offensive to you personally.

[peterb17]

Don't even think about ANY form of investment in Condos in Pattaya or Jomtien- why?

There are thousands of units on the market- many reduced.

The hype put out by the developers cannot be believed- 90% sold- snap up the few remaining units- yeah of course.

Look carefully service charges are really high for some- I suppose you have to make sure the galleons and other nonsense don't fall apart ( which of course they will)

The Russian fiasco has really hit hard.

Driving to where I live in Palm Oasis- which is a very swish development ( some houses already abandoned )

, you have Zen and then the Maldives- work has completely stopped- what will happen to your guarantees then?

Buy a holiday home - great ; investment never

[maidee]

the company does not have to go bankrupt ... they stop day 0 and start a new one at day 1

same owners, new company, 0 commitment

[Asiantravel]

Pattaya is no more than a holiday destination city with particular emphasis on trying to attract particularly tourists from two or three countries.

But there are no other major commercial activities in this city. No major industrial parks or international standard office buildings. Whereas take Singapore for example. The demand for residential properties comes from a wide spectrum of local business workers and international expatriates.

So if the phenomenon described in the following article is happening in Singapore I find it strange that we don’t we see this happening also in Pattaya ? Particularly now with a dwindling number of Russians.

Singapore Housing Market is Falling and Defaults Are Rising

After five years of price gains, values are falling and defaults are rising following government measures to curb lending and a decline in the number of foreign buyers

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-01-26/defaults-send-singaporeans-bargain-hunting-at-auction

[Asiantravel]

^{Buyer Beware!} Enough said.

pithy but good

[i claudius]

My wife deals with quite a few very savey Thai property owners ,and to be honest they know exactly where to buy and they make a lot of money ,she also gets a load of people who think they can get rich quick in the condo market ,they dont ,if you know your way around ,its a good market here in Pattaya ,unfortunatley 90% of the buyers and renters dont.

[Phra Ek]

We are all understandably skeptical. But the same claim of 'guaranteed income' is made for some condo developments in Bangkok (Auguston in Suk Soi 22 is one) - so it's not only Pattaya.

As there's now too many new condos for rent in Bangkok it's a brave claim - but I've no direct experience of the business. I guess there must be some clever small print in the contract?

[Straight8]

If anyone falls for this " marketing concept " ( i'd use another word ) they probably deserve what they get,though I'd still feel sorry for them.

For anyone thinking of buying ask for a big discount on asking price if they refuse then walk away there is a huge huge amount of condos

comming up for sale in the Pattaya/ Jomtien area the building never stops.

Look even though I am probably as sceptical as you (in my case you can even use the word cynical) but I don’t think you can say it’s the word you would like to use- provided the guarantees they offer could be legally enforced and that is a huge “if “.

For example putting the entire amount of money plus promised increases to the original asking price all in escrow. But then I would be very surprised if any developer agreed to that because it would tie up too much of their money.

It seems to me what they are counting on is capturing the interest of prospective foreign buyers as we gradually see interest rates on bank deposits dwindling to nothing (and in some cases even suffering the effects of negative interest rates). Many foreigners might see this as an opportunity to make the return they are being promised plus getting more money back later? Of course you and I know it entirely contradicts the realities of the property market in Pattaya.

And that was the reason for my question as to whether it's getting harder for developers to raise money in more conventional ways that they did in the past.

Even in a country like Australia, I would not go near an offer like this.. In Thailand..... pleaseeeee!!!!

When something seems too good to be true, well you know the rest.

[mrfaroukh]

It is a difficult time due to many reasons.

1) World economy is bad so less tourist are coming to Thailand, difficult to rent out property, not many to buy property

2) Thailand political issue reduced the tourist. Though the new government are doing many good things in the eye of foreign nations it is not a good time to visit Thailand

3) Main buyers of condo in Pattaya were the Russian. The value of their money is gone done, economy is bad, country is sanctioned and many more problems

4) Over production. In an Expat club almost 2 years ago they were discussing about 40 000 unsold finished condo and there were 300 000 more under construction

5) Many Russian has purchased condo paid 10 or 20 percent of the value and now they can't even afford to pay the rest and they are ready to sell their condo even at lower rate specially in Jomtien.

6) I seen myself in Pratomnak area that there was a sign saying For 2 months we sell the remaining of our stock at lower price, earlier price 90 000 Sqm and now 42000 Sqm. So you see the trend. I had even spoken with a property dealer and I was told that the condition will even be worse in 12 to 18 months time.

Now if you wish to buy a condo you better open your eyes and do your calculation well.