New Air Conditioner

[anon467848]

I need a new air conditioner (12,000 BTU) and was wondering if anybody has seen a recent promotion or can recommend a local air con shop... I live in the Borsang area...

I guess if you have a problem with the unit it would be better dealing with a local shop rather than the likes of Homepro, Siam TV or Big C....

Many thanks

Edited April 4, 2015 by merlin2002

[MaeJoMTB]

Siam TV are the easiest, they drive out an fit it for very little extra (about 500bht).

[Mapguy]

Price is one thing. The brand is another. Every Thai mechanic I have consulted over the years recommends Mishubishi. I agree with some limited comparison. If you are shopping price alone, it is probably not wise.

[northernjohn]

Question

How big of a room with a normal height ceiling would 12,000 BTU cover?

Edited April 4, 2015 by northernjohn

[Gonsalviz]

Cement walls, 3 mtr ceiling with no insulation,16 or so sq mtrs. 18 sq mtrs is probably pushing it.

Steer away from inverters if you have voltage spikes. Easy to burn up the board and expensive to replace.

Local shops are cheaper than the big stores and much better for service.

[billphillips]

Inverters ... A great environmental idea and also Impossible to recoup the additional purchase cost within the life of the unit from running cost savings.

[Dellboy218]

Inverters ... A great environmental idea and also Impossible to recoup the additional purchase cost within the life of the unit from running cost savings.

The last time I bought an aircon the running costs between inverter/non inverter model with same BTU rating was identical. The inverter model was 12000B more expensive!

[Mousehound]

What is the "advantage" of an invertor then? Why would anyone buy one?

[cheeryble]

Daikin or Mitsubishi recommended.

Mitsubishi a wee bit dearer.

I have saved a lot on Daikin when my aircon guy sourced it.

Edited April 5, 2015 by cheeryble

[cheeryble]

Inverters ... A great environmental idea and also Impossible to recoup the additional purchase cost within the life of the unit from running cost savings.

No true. I have and energy monitor and know what my old York acons were drawing, and then I replaced them with Diakin investors and it will take about 3 years before the electrical savings pay for THE ENTIRE AIR CON. Old aircon was drawing over 6KW when in use, new one drawing 1.50KW.

Hmmmm Vibe

highly unlikely you have a 75% drop in costs.

You may find the inceptor is running CONSTANTLY at the lower rating whereas the 6KW was switching and off a lot of the time.

Also that the lower wattage will step up sometimes or higher demand i.e. temperature difference required.

Edited April 5, 2015 by cheeryble

[billphillips]

Inverters ... A great environmental idea and also Impossible to recoup the additional purchase cost within the life of the unit from running cost savings.

No true. I have and energy monitor and know what my old York acons were drawing, and then I replaced them with Diakin investors and it will take about 3 years before the electrical savings pay for THE ENTIRE AIR CON. Old aircon was drawing over 6KW when in use, new one drawing 1.50KW.

I understand your point but comparing an old spec and at end of life unit to a new modern unit is not a good comparison. Take the time to read the energy consumption details of a standard and then an inverter unit of the same manufacturer / spec / output. Then go home and crunch the numbers, you will be shocked at how little, in real cash, that can be saved.

By the way 6kw is 27+ amps, I hope you were using 6mm cable for the supply to your old aircon.

[grin]

Daikin now has inverters that use R32, the so called nextgen refrigerant (Model FTKC).

These R32 inverters also come in a more expensive smart model that detects someone in the room (Model FTKM).

One thing I don't see mentioned as an advantage that inverters have is that they are continually dehumidifying and filtering the air.

Grin

[cheeryble]

One thing I don't see mentioned as an advantage that inverters have is that they are continually dehumidifying and filtering the air.

Grin

All aircons dehumidify (as long as they're working) hence the drip pipe needed to outside.

As for filtering that too though usually a fairly coarse filter for fluff etc.

I have a friend who puts a panel of (i believe it's called) Filtrete in the aircon filter which he claims will REALLY clean the air including the PM 10s he should know as he suffered badly from an infection last year.

Edited April 5, 2015 by cheeryble

[kaptainrob]

Inverter a/c systems are now standard and relatively inexpensive to purchase. You will save ~30% on electric cost and they run quieter.

We currently use ours for ~ 8hrs a night x 3 weeks last bill cycle, and the bill hasnt gone over 900 baht yet. And we use fans and oven a lot too!

IMHO Daikin is one of the top makes although we've used Hitachi, Panasonic, Carrier and Samsung. Perhaps the most important tip is to select a model with good remote control and memory for settings, time on/time off ... saves re-programming each night!

Sort of off topic, but inverter related. Samsung service guys came out to check all appliances, ahead of warranty expiration, and they offered a good suggestion we have followed thru on. We purchased a 3amp surge protection device for our fridge from Wualai Rd electrical @ 790 bt. It senses power drop or surge and protects the compressor by switching off, waiting 3 minutes and reconnecting if power is stable.

[Dante99]

Sort of off topic, but inverter related. Samsung service guys came out to check all appliances, ahead of warranty expiration, and they offered a good suggestion we have followed thru on. We purchased a 3amp surge protection device for our fridge from Wualai Rd electrical @ 790 bt. It senses power drop or surge and protects the compressor by switching off, waiting 3 minutes and reconnecting if power is stable.

Good device to have, one for each frige. Plug it in, plug the frige into it and you are surge protected.

[kilt]

Just another thumbs up for Daiken Inverter A/C's. Got 'em. Love 'em.

Edited April 5, 2015 by kilt

[Dellboy218]

What is the "advantage" of an invertor then? Why would anyone buy one?

A 'normal' aircon compressor motor, is a direct on line (DOL) type. That is, the controlling circuit says start and cotactor makes which starts the compressor motor. The speed at which the motor runs is purely dependant on the frequency of the mains supply. At 50Hz on a normal 2 pole motor that will be 3000rpm. The 3 phase induction motor which powers the compressor will take about 6-8 times the normal running current to start. This obviously increases the average amount of power being used and limits its ability to cycle. By that I mean this very large current drawn builds up internal heat which takes time to dissipate. Very large motors are only allowed somewhere in the region of 2 starts every hour. Therefore if the motor is operating on/off/on/off it will probably not last very long. There has to be some hysteresis built into the control system. I.e. if you set the temperature to 26c it will probably switch off just under that and perhaps switch on at 27c. It will run for a few minutes not seconds and switch off.

An invertor takes your AC supply and converts it into a variable frequency AC supply. The motor may never actually be switched off. An invertor controlled motor can be 'ramped' up and down as required, that is their speed and work they do can be increased and decreased at the will of the control circuit. If they are switched off they can be soft started, that is a slow start with the speed gradually ramped up at a pre determined rate. Of course the electronic circuity is taking power and not being 100% efficient it may not save you any energy over the DOL type.

By this method, for this purpose, a much tighter regulation of temperature can be achieved, at least at the temperature measuring device, whether you would notice it across a room perhaps is debatable. Also as the compressor does not switch on at full torque and perhaps not run at full speed it should be quieter. Certainly if you have one mounted on a wall with a metal frame you will I would imagine, notice a difference. If yours is particularly noisy you might like to check the compressor anti vibration mounts. They are sometimes screwed down tight for transportation and forgotten about! If it really bangs 'bangs' on compressor start up then perhaps the expansion valve is set wrong and liquid instead of gas is reaching back to the compressor. You cannot compress a liquid of course and the compressor will be jumping off its mountings.

I have Toshiba A/C's, not perhaps the first name would think of for A/C's but the label does say Toshiba - Carrier. None of them are invertor. Mine are mounted on concrete plinths I had set into the wall and I do not hear them. The manufacturers spec of the invertor compared to the non invertor models comparing energy used as well as cooling capacity is identical, the only difference is the price. I can understand why some buy the invertor model but for me it wasn't worth the extra cost. And quite honestly. more things to go wrong.

[Dellboy218]

In case anyone is wondering what a really nasty aircon looks like........

This is from a 'resort' near Manila where I was recently sent for a training course. This particular beauty gave me acute tonsillopahryngitis or, according to the Ram here, acute rinobrnochitis. This is a 'hole in the wall' combined condensor/evap unit. This is the evap fins. They should be nice and shiny alloy mounted onto the copper cooling tubes. This was fitted with a standard nylon mesh filter which was spotless! It has obviously never been cleaned or sanitised. A perfect breeding ground for bacteria right up to Legionella.

Just a little note to everyone that A/C cleanliness is not a joke!

And whoever mentioned about 3m filtrette, yes it does work and I use them all the time during the burning season. Max 1 week and they are black!!!

[Dante99]

However I have had Daikin investors in the past, and nothing every went wrong.

Those Daikin investors are great, they are always happy with the ROI and never complain when it drops a bit.

[Dellboy218]

What is the "advantage" of an invertor then? Why would anyone buy one?

A 'normal' aircon compressor motor, is a direct on line (DOL) type. That is, the controlling circuit says start and cotactor makes which starts the compressor motor. The speed at which the motor runs is purely dependant on the frequency of the mains supply. At 50Hz on a normal 2 pole motor that will be 3000rpm. The 3 phase induction motor which powers the compressor will take about 6-8 times the normal running current to start. This obviously increases the average amount of power being used and limits its ability to cycle. By that I mean this very large current drawn builds up internal heat which takes time to dissipate. Very large motors are only allowed somewhere in the region of 2 starts every hour. Therefore if the motor is operating on/off/on/off it will probably not last very long. There has to be some hysteresis built into the control system. I.e. if you set the temperature to 26c it will probably switch off just under that and perhaps switch on at 27c. It will run for a few minutes not seconds and switch off.

An invertor takes your AC supply and converts it into a variable frequency AC supply. The motor may never actually be switched off. An invertor controlled motor can be 'ramped' up and down as required, that is their speed and work they do can be increased and decreased at the will of the control circuit. If they are switched off they can be soft started, that is a slow start with the speed gradually ramped up at a pre determined rate. Of course the electronic circuity is taking power and not being 100% efficient it may not save you any energy over the DOL type.

By this method, for this purpose, a much tighter regulation of temperature can be achieved, at least at the temperature measuring device, whether you would notice it across a room perhaps is debatable. Also as the compressor does not switch on at full torque and perhaps not run at full speed it should be quieter. Certainly if you have one mounted on a wall with a metal frame you will I would imagine, notice a difference. If yours is particularly noisy you might like to check the compressor anti vibration mounts. They are sometimes screwed down tight for transportation and forgotten about! If it really bangs 'bangs' on compressor start up then perhaps the expansion valve is set wrong and liquid instead of gas is reaching back to the compressor. You cannot compress a liquid of course and the compressor will be jumping off its mountings.

I have Toshiba A/C's, not perhaps the first name would think of for A/C's but the label does say Toshiba - Carrier. None of them are invertor. Mine are mounted on concrete plinths I had set into the wall and I do not hear them. The manufacturers spec of the invertor compared to the non invertor models comparing energy used as well as cooling capacity is identical, the only difference is the price. I can understand why some buy the invertor model but for me it wasn't worth the extra cost. And quite honestly. more things to go wrong.

Informative post. However I have had Daikin investors in the past, and nothing every went wrong. As opposed to the regular York acons where had to replace one compressor motor, and on another unit both motors in the duct.

Never said they would go wrong. But the invertor is full of power electronic parts the other ones do not have. Because I have to work on units that are the size of a pick up or more I always work on the KISS principal and that is if the bits are not there, they cannot go wrong! Like everything else, you pays your money you takes your choice. The best value for money you can buy for your purpose. If you have chosen something that works well for you then you are lucky and obviously you had a bad experience with York. Actually some our Pick up truck sized units are Yorks..........hmmm .....cann't disagree! I think for some reason you were unlucky with that one. It didnt bang did it on start up did it? Just a thought.

[rhinoboy]

Just bought a Daikin FTM 18000btu. Much quieter than the 7 yr old Samsung which made a lot of noise kicking on and off. Noticed the rubber floor mounts were brittle and hard. Fan on Daikin not "slient" like a Mitsubishi, but almost. Overall noise is 70% less. Someone is supposed to buy my Samsung for 6000 baht today, it works fine and put in a new capacitor a few months ago which I bought down near the moat for 300 baht. I have only had the Daikin in here for two weeks but will be intersting to compare bills.

Reason I didn't buy an inverter was cost, and I work in a high tech indusrtry here and don't want to deal with those who have to deal with these things when they break or dont perform properly.

[BB24]

Great post and replies - thanks to all. I had heard Mitsubishi and Daikin were the best - noted fror next time.