Thai politics: Mixed-member proportional system

[webfact]

FACE OFF - FOR & AGAINST
Mixed-Member Proportional System
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The key questions appear to be whether it is better to adopt an electoral system that produces a coalition comprised of many medium-sized parties under the mixed-member proportional (MMP) system, or whether it is better to have a few large political parties and a stronger government. The Nation's Kris Bhromsuthi talks to a proponent and an opponent of the MMP system.

NRC's Sombat Thamrongthanyawong: Why I don't support the MMP system

The introduction of a German-style mixed-member proportional (MMP) electoral system under the new constitution will potentially lead to a coalition government, something that has not caused any problems in Germany because of the country's noble political culture.

German politicians have higher morals, ethics and integrity than Thai politicians. And when this is the case it doesn't matter what electoral or political systems are implemented - there will be no corruption or vote buying.

In democratically advanced countries like the United Kingdom, the United States, France and Germany, each one uses a different electoral system and all seem to work.

Therefore, the electoral system is not a factor in curbing vote buying and corruption. It is the political culture and quality of politicians that are the significant factors in eliminating corruption.

Take for example Germany, where supreme court judges and the president of the constitutional court are selected by elected politicians - a very effective process.

Now, does that mean that if such a process works in Germany, we should copy it? Can you imagine what would happen if we let our politicians choose those judges?

So again, our systems cannot change the outcome of vote buying and corruption - changing the political culture will do that, and that will take time.

Back to the potential of a coalition government being formed in Thailand through the MMP system. In Germany, the system works because German politicians do not wheel

and deal, and are not involved in collective efforts for large-scale corruption like Thai politicians.

In Thailand, as we saw before the introduction of the 1997 Constitution, coalition governments were formed on the basis of self-interest. If all sides benefit, the coalition remained. But if they failed to come to terms, a change in administration occurred.

Both outcomes didn't serve the country, but merely the politicians.

So, introducing the MMP system here would mean a return this old problem.

Another point of concern over the MMP system is its high emphasis on party-list MPs, which would mean a significant number of lower House MPs not being directly elected by the people but rather chosen by political party leaders.

The charter drafters tried to solve this problem by introducing the "open list" rule, which will give voters the capacity to influence the order in which candidates are listed by allowing them to choose their preferred candidate, who will be listed according to the number of votes they receive.

This could solve the problem of party-list MPs' disconnection from the people, but in practice it will be very challenging to implement successfully.

How many parties would put up candidates?

The vote counting will also take a long

time and be a complicated three-stage process, with the constituency MP vote followed by the party vote and the preferred candidate vote. Each process involves accumulation and calculation.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Mixed-Member-Proportional-System-30257484.html


-- The Nation 2015-04-06

[Strangebrew]

Yo Thailand there is this new thing called electronic voting machine Where the public enters it vote that information sent to central computer where it is stored and counted when voting is complete it gives results of election in a matter of seconds.

[NongKhaiKid]

The party list system and any variations should be binned but won't be as it's too valuable as a short cut to get a chosen few ' elected ' for reasons that usually are nothing to do with their ability, suitability or the good of the country.

[sirineou]

Yo Thailand there is this new thing called electronic voting machine Where the public enters it vote that information sent to central computer where it is stored and counted when voting is complete it gives results of election in a matter of seconds.

and every one knows that computers can not be hacked or electronic voting machines manipulated

[chainarong]

It is indeed refreshing to see that at least someone is awake for Sonkran, I ref to Khun Sombat who realises that Thai politicians are not a patch on the German version ( although there would be plenty of Germans who disagree, that's Democracy) (the difference, if you arrange to meet a German person that person arrives before time a Thai arrives 6 hrs late and thinks nothing of it) the problem here is apples and oranges there's a big difference in cultures and I note the comment, that having two elected large parties one in opposition (As stated) will lead to stronger Government ,the MMP system is open to corruption make no bones about it , it will be a Thailand version, that is why some parts of the top end of town are just creaming their pants with anticipation, I rest my case. Happy Easter Monday.

Edited April 6, 2015 by chainarong

[Srikcir]

"something that has not caused any problems in Germany because of the country's noble political culture."

Well, there goes the case for use in Thailand. Of course, maybe another contributing factor is that the German military is under firm civilian control.

However, while the CDC is seemingly enamored with Germany's MMP system, the NCPO cannot tolerate a strong prime minister that an MMP system might produce such as Chancellor Merkel. So the NCPO has forced into the draft constitution numerous mechanisms to essentially block or even overthrow an elected Head of Government. Germany's MMP system essentially has been neutered by the CDC in the draft constitution and shall never bear any children of democracy.

[lewy67]

I got an idea. Single member constituencies where members are chosen on the preferential voting system (first candidate with 50.1% of the vote with preferences allocated if no candidate has a majority after first preferences counted) for the House of Reps and proportional representation, German style, in the senate. No party list and no appointed senators. Smells like democracy, looks like democracy, tastes like democracy but TIT.

[Issangeorge]

I got an idea. Single member constituencies where members are chosen on the preferential voting system (first candidate with 50.1% of the vote with preferences allocated if no candidate has a majority after first preferences counted) for the House of Reps and proportional representation, German style, in the senate. No party list and no appointed senators. Smells like democracy, looks like democracy, tastes like democracy but TIT.

I like this idea, I would also like to see it in my home country.

[greenchair]

Any system with "a Thai twist " is going to have problems.

They really need to take out the

"Twist"???

[h90]

Yo Thailand there is this new thing called electronic voting machine Where the public enters it vote that information sent to central computer where it is stored and counted when voting is complete it gives results of election in a matter of seconds.

yes, also helps to get the results you want.

Very difficult if it is counted in the open and people watching....With the voting machine you need only 1 guy to rig the results.

[halloween]

I can easily put forward any number of arguments against the party list system - Thaksin, Chalerm, Yingluk, Surapong, Weng, Nattiwut, Jatuporn (who would have been elected) and a string of other criminals and scum foisted on the Thai people.

OTOH constituency voting managed to elect 204 MPs willing to sell their country down the drain for a monthly stipend. Ain't democracy grand.

[AZBill]

Corruption is institutionalized to such a degree in Thailand it won't matter what they choose.

[retsdon]

German politicians have higher morals, ethics and integrity than Thai politicians.

They weren't born that way. It's because the German electorate holds its politicians to a higher standard, and will punish them severely for falling below that standard. Any party that fielded candidates like Suthep or Chalerm would be unelectable, no matter how appealing its policies were. But for some reason the Thai electorate seems to accept whatever rubbish is thrown at them - by all sides.

[jope]

German politicians have higher morals, ethics and integrity than Thai politicians.

They weren't born that way. It's because the German electorate holds its politicians to a higher standard, and will punish them severely for falling below that standard. Any party that fielded candidates like Suthep or Chalerm would be unelectable, no matter how appealing its policies were. But for some reason the Thai electorate seems to accept whatever rubbish is thrown at them - by all sides.

Furthermore, there is a police and public prosecutors who are well educated, paid a fair salary and who are bound by law to investigate any crime that they become aware of (no way around it, otherwise they commit a crime themselves). These investigations meet judges, who are well educated and are paid a fair salary in a rule of law system that deserves the name (independent judges coming into office through a fair vetting system, appeal system).

And then, off course, there is freedom of speech and particularly the freedom of the media that will cover a corrupt politician in printing ink, so they are not electable anymore.

Noble German Politicians? Well, in general yes, because they have to! The voting system that brings them into parliament has little to do with it.