Why is that Thai schools pass every kid regardless of their ability/grades?

[pinkpanther99]

Having spent a couple of years 'teaching' in Thailand (I use that term loosely as I'm certainly not a proper teacher, but this is Thailand and pretty much any farang can teach) and after reading the story this morning, and with also having a child who next year will be going to a school in Thailand, I always take note of stories and issues related to the Thai education system.

But can anyone tell me, why is that Thailand has this policy of passing every kid, regardless of what grades they get?

What's the reasoning behind it? Or is this just another of those many issues that no farang in Thailand will ever be able to understand?

Someone somewhere obviously thinks its beneficial in some way? Is it just all about face saving both for student and teacher or is there more to it than that?

Why is that Thai parents don't lobby for change? I mean, they must realise that this isn't in the best interest for their kids, right? Or is it because they are also just a product of this system and don't know any better?

I also read recently that Vietnam's education system is currently out performing Thailand in leaps and bounds. Does the policy of passing every kid only go on in Thailand or is it the same in neighbouring countries too?

When I was 'teaching' I made the mistake at the end of my first semester of failing 3 kids. The head of the dept was very upset and insisted that I physically erased all the grades and re-wrote a grade on the paper that would mean the kid would pass.

Surely it is in the interests of any country to try and boost education standards, so why does Thailand insist on the lunacy of passing all students?

[nikmar]

My wife's niece got full marks in a Chinese test once at her private school. Her parents knew that she didnt know a word in Chinese and actually complained to the school, which id never heard of before. The result was that her form tutor started giving her a hard time for anything, real or perceived. No idea why! in the end they moved her to a new school. I though this was unbelievable.

[thaipod]

This goes on into university as well, it's quite scary. I have met many so called professionals here over the years with degrees and I can't figure out how they passed. A bit worrying in the health profession.

[WitawatWatawit]

It's not so much the strange concept of every student gets a pass, but the refusal to acknowledge just how damaging this is to the country as a whole. Most people know this is wrong (I was about to say "everyone" knows it's wrong until I reminded myself just how delusional some senior people are in this country). My colleagues talk and write about it often. But no one in the government or the bureaucracy has the guts to do the right thing and usher in an educational revolution.

I feel very sad about this, because I come from a country which once had a 100% literacy rate, and which gave me an education that was so good it allowed me to achieve many things in life that I would not have been able to do otherwise. My colleagues are educated, wonderful people. Most are very reform-minded, but deeply frustrated. I feel for them and their kids.

[lostinisaan]

But can anyone tell me, why is that Thailand has this policy of passing every kid, regardless of what grades they get?

It's very clear and an unwritten law by the Ministry of Education Bangkok. Students from grade one up to grade 12 are NOT allowed to ask their teachers any questions.

All the students pass, because they believe that the teacher wasn't good, when kids fail. It's all about loss of face, with the tendency to stupidity.

Would the kids fail, they would really listen and learn. I had a girl who'd been an exchange student in Germany for one year and she spoke quite well. Her Thai German teacher at a well- known high school in Ubon always used the wrong words, wrong grammar, wrong sentence structure, etc....

The student who's much better than her teacher couldn't tell her how wrong her German was. We discussed that and she's really pissed off about her own country.

Would kids fail, more teachers could be employed, those with mental issues could attend a school for "special needs" and many problems of the whole educational problems could be solved.

Right now, students with mental problems "study" in regular classes and make teaching to an adventurous occupation. I had to "help" an Australian colleague, who almost got hit by a grade five student with a wooden chair.

The whole system is absurd and all involved act like all that buffalo dung would be "normal." It's not and it will never be. The hub of lost faces.

Edited May 21, 2015 by lostinisaan

[lostinisaan]

I think because a very large % would fail, so staff and school would look daft. "Her" son is as thick as a plank yet he passed everything, now twenty and can't speak English or Chinese yet passed. Crazy stuff.

Another candidate for a Thai culture and ethics course.........

[lostinisaan]

Fink majority of LOS kids don't give a toss about making the effort to learn cos they know they will pass anyhoooo.

I hear some parents pay for a "pass" if that piece of paper is essential.

So many teachers use the classroom actually for teaching. But that's usually tutoring after school, using the schools' facilities. Going rate is 50 baht, per child and hour.

Make that times 45 and you take an extra 2250 baht home, five times a week.That's 12250 per week.

Make it to two hours a day and you're making around 100 K in one month, I mean next to your "low" salary.

And of course do they "suggest" that many of them need tutoring. What's surprising to me is that many really speak Tinglish in English lessons and they don't just sit down all day in class.

I could write some more details, but that would only cause many lost faces in a country full of lost faces. The educational hub that never became one.

5555555555555555555555555555+

Edited May 21, 2015 by lostinisaan

[Briggsy]

OP (and most others) are considering the question from the wrong angle. i.e. from a moral, ethical and benefit to society viewpoint.

You need to view this from an Asian perspective. What is important to an average South East Asian? For a start, none of the above. It is in order of importance, 1. Rice bowl (that means income and thus, wealth) 2. Status 3. Reputation

1 Rice Bowl. The school needs income. if students fail, their parents will stop paying or go elsewhere. The students need Mor 6, Mor 3 certs., etc. to get jobs.

2. Status. Your highest educational qualification confirms your status here. Failure is not an option.

3. Reputation. If a student fails, others will know he/she is stupid. Loss of reputation. If the school fails a lot of people, the school gets a bad reputation. The teachers are seen as mean and inflexible. Nobody wants to work with a business like that here.

Think like a South East Asian, the society here has not evolved based on Christian teachings and morality.

[pinkpanther99]

It's not so much the strange concept of every student gets a pass, but the refusal to acknowledge just how damaging this is to the country as a whole. Most people know this is wrong (I was about to say "everyone" knows it's wrong until I reminded myself just how delusional some senior people are in this country). My colleagues talk and write about it often. But no one in the government or the bureaucracy has the guts to do the right thing and usher in an educational revolution.

I feel very sad about this, because I come from a country which once had a 100% literacy rate, and which gave me an education that was so good it allowed me to achieve many things in life that I would not have been able to do otherwise. My colleagues are educated, wonderful people. Most are very reform-minded, but deeply frustrated. I feel for them and their kids.

Yes, this is exactly how I feel and it is, like you say, that refusal to acknowledge what a problem this is that leaves me truly baffled.

[Suradit69]

Why is that Thai schools pass every kid

It's American-ness. "Social promotions." and handing out grades to keep everyone happy.

According to Ed Week, social promotion is defined as the practice of passing students along from grade to grade with their peers even if the students have not satisfied academic requirements or met performance standards at key grades.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/franchesca-warren/social-promotion-is-not-a_b_5896120.html

And it's not just in primary schools

EASTON, PA.Pennsylvania graduate student Megan Thode wasn't happy about the C-plus she received for her internship, saying the mediocre grade kept her from getting her desired degree and becoming a licensed therapist.

Thode is suing her professor and Lehigh University in Bethlehem, demanding that her grade be changed. She's also seeking monetary damages.

Bowen Bethards, 17, was a sophomore in Peggy Carlock's chemistry class at Albany High School in Albany, Calif., outside of San Francisco, in the 2010-11 school year when she gave him the C+ grade at the center of the suit, ...

Bethards, in a lawsuit filed with his mother, Laureen, in Contra Costa County Superior Court last month, claims that he has suffered severe physical and emotional suffering, damage to his academic reputation, and diminished chances of getting into his college of choice because of the grade.

[pinkpanther99]

Fink majority of LOS kids don't give a toss about making the effort to learn cos they know they will pass anyhoooo.

I hear some parents pay for a "pass" if that piece of paper is essential.

And this definitely another thing to consider.

Do you think some kids get to a certain age and know full well what goes on with regards to everyone getting a pass and therefore just basically stop trying?

On another point, where does this everyone getting a pass end?

For example, say you're ill and have to visit a doctor.

Could it be that the doctor you visit may never have genuinely passed any exams?

But because of the system here, he's been able to go one and become a doctor, perhaps because his parents were wealthy enough to send him to medical school, rather than him every passing any exams or having any medical knowledge.

I mean, how dangerous would that be?

[usa4079]

All about saving face. sonkids wont b embarrassed in front of fri3nds. Parents wont b embarrassed aboutntheir kid failing and being viewed as lazy and stupid and internationally so thailand doesntbget seen as stupid when comparing how a countries overall level of education to other countries. All about the face

[jimky]

Why can't be specifically a Thai thing because it is the same in many countries. But yeah, my 15-year old stepson doesn't know how to read but has passed through every grade based on his age in Thailand.

[jumbo]

if the kids dont go to school and the parents don't pay the money the system fails

so keep the first happy

my daughter had to choose her field of 'study' English or Logistic, she chose the latter
I understood that because her english is a 1 out of 100, so I asked her why logistic, "ehh huh?"

she liked the terms I guess..

You could laugh about it if it wasn't just so very sad, for everyone...

why I pay anyway? parental thingy...and she needs a grade not to loose face..

God I am happy she is just as pretty as her mother, she is going to need it

[aTomsLife]

Why is that Thai schools pass every kid

It's American-ness. "Social promotions." and handing out grades to keep everyone happy.

According to Ed Week, social promotion is defined as the practice of passing students along from grade to grade with their peers even if the students have not satisfied academic requirements or met performance standards at key grades.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/franchesca-warren/social-promotion-is-not-a_b_5896120.html

And it's not just in primary schools

EASTON, PA.Pennsylvania graduate student Megan Thode wasn't happy about the C-plus she received for her internship, saying the mediocre grade kept her from getting her desired degree and becoming a licensed therapist.

Thode is suing her professor and Lehigh University in Bethlehem, demanding that her grade be changed. She's also seeking monetary damages.

Bowen Bethards, 17, was a sophomore in Peggy Carlock's chemistry class at Albany High School in Albany, Calif., outside of San Francisco, in the 2010-11 school year when she gave him the C+ grade at the center of the suit, ...

Bethards, in a lawsuit filed with his mother, Laureen, in Contra Costa County Superior Court last month, claims that he has suffered severe physical and emotional suffering, damage to his academic reputation, and diminished chances of getting into his college of choice because of the grade.

Sure, the U.S. and Thailand have the same educational standards, all because you were able to find anecdotal examples of two idiots whose idiocy was so great they each garnered national attention.

[lostinisaan]

Fink majority of LOS kids don't give a toss about making the effort to learn cos they know they will pass anyhoooo.

I hear some parents pay for a "pass" if that piece of paper is essential.

And this definitely another thing to consider.

Do you think some kids get to a certain age and know full well what goes on with regards to everyone getting a pass and therefore just basically stop trying?

On another point, where does this everyone getting a pass end?

For example, say you're ill and have to visit a doctor.

Could it be that the doctor you visit may never have genuinely passed any exams?

But because of the system here, he's been able to go one and become a doctor, perhaps because his parents were wealthy enough to send him to medical school, rather than him every passing any exams or having any medical knowledge.

I mean, how dangerous would that be?

It's possible that people can buy their way through.

A good way for a Thai teacher to find out how wrong their system is would be, when she'd need a very serious operation and the doctor who walks in, a former student, the dumbest she ever had, will tell her that he's going to "fix" his ex-teacher.

But it has to be an emergency operation, no chances to get another doctor.

A good pay back situation as well for all the pain caused by the teacher's most important educational tool, the bamboo stick.

Edited May 21, 2015 by lostinisaan

[JimHuaHin]

Unfortunately, the young students grow up to be adults, but without ever experiencing failure.

So, when it comes to real life as adults, these kids find it very very difficult to deal with failure at work and in relationships.

End result ... big social problems. Just look at the social problems caused by the spoilt "Little Emperors" in the People's Republic of China.

[Prof3934]

I taught Business English Management subjects in the English language to Senior Thai Executives studying for their MBA's. Most of them could speak English well to poor, but almost all of them could not write. Either it was spelling, syntax, grammar errors at very basic levels. I taught at this MBA University in Bangkok for 6 years, and failed students who did not make my grading which had been approved by the Board.

But.......after failing them, I almost always was called to a meeting and politely told to "find enough marks" to pass the failures. If I could not, then I would probably have top find alternative work because I did not understand that degrees were 'big business'. If this university had poorer pass levels, then potential students went elsewhere!!

So it was work and pas everyone, or fail some of them and leave !!

[janpharma]

The ONE and ONLY reason (checked with Thai parents) that ALL students have to pass is : " If all students don't pass, the teacher is losing his/her face"...And all teachers want to "rank up" to become directors ...only to have more salary and more power...to gesture the extra income that they demand from parents every school-year. Example: The largest school in Prakhon Chai (Buriram) demands this year 15.000.- THB from the parents for each student. This to be paid extra!!!

Disgusting...

[Jaggg88]

I was told by an employer in Singapore that Thai Uni degrees are not recognised outside Thailand

[Johnny S]

School and teachers would lose face if all students dont pass and that would be a disaster for sure ... The shortsight and the stupidity here has no end ...

[oneday]

This country is fanatical about "loss of face".........to their detriment.

IMO and it is just my opinion, it is because of "loss of face" for the student, "loss of face" for the teacher, "loss of face" for the school and "loss of face" for the parents.

[jumbo]

I was told by an employer in Singapore that Thai Uni degrees are not recognised outside Thailand

not true surely depends on the uni

there are some good ones

[Johnny S]

I was told by an employer in Singapore that Thai Uni degrees are not recognised outside Thailand

True and no wonder why ...

[Toscano]

If no student is allowed to fail , the same applies to would be teachers . Attending a course is all that matters . I know a young university graduate who has become a qualified English teacher , but barely speaks or understands English . My stepson went to college for two years to train to be an electrician . His tutor did complain to mother that he was behind with his studies , but he still graduated and got his certificate . You could scarcely ask him to change a light bulb . He eventually went to work for an industrial electrical company , but that didn't last long .

[gerry123]

honesty is the best policy !!! ( certainly not a proper teacher, but this is Thailand and pretty much any farang can teach) says it all really???

​apologies to the qualified

[smotherb]

Do some research. Passing students when they have not earned the grades to be promoted is called Social Promotion. It is rampant in education throughout the world. School systems are reluctant to admit it, and those which do will probably give you some poppycock about saving the child from the social stigma of failure and reiterate the old buggyboo that holding a child back often leads to school drop-outs.

Perhaps it is more widely known here becuase so many farangs are "teachers" Is Thailand worse than other countries? Well, that would be another study, but I doubt Thailand is any worse than the Philippines, for example. Or any number of other countries, including our Western ones.

[Borzandy]

Because Thai schools, even private schools, are not for study, they are only for kids distraction and their happiness. If a school would like to teach, this school needs teachers.

[smotherb]

I was told by an employer in Singapore that Thai Uni degrees are not recognised outside Thailand

True and no wonder why ...

Do you have any idea of how many Thais with local degrees go on to graduate school in the UK, US, and Germany? When Western universities admit those Thais to graduate schools, they recognize the Thai degrees. Most employers have no idea which schools are accredited and are decent schools and which do not; they simply ask for a degree. That is why so many applicants claim a degree and have never graduated; you can simply buy degrees online.

[MaeJoMTB]

It's because serfs are only required to serve and obey.

Nothing else is required from a low class Thai.

Not much else is required from anyone who attends school in Thailand.