barnetfair Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 I'm sorry if there is another thread on this subject, but I couldn't see one. I am in a position where I am working at a school. I worked the last 5 years through an agent, but the agent has withdrawn from the business and therefore I am without representation. I'm looking for someone to represent me and a colleague for a few months whilst I put together a proposal and create and organisation that will allow me to become an/the agent myself. Any advice or recommendations appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puchooay Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Why don't you just make an agreement directly with the school? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angsta Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 What he said. Who needs a middle man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LecheHombre Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 If you work through an agency, aren't you exempt from Khurusapha licensing and don't need to get a local work permit, etc? All of the short-term agency dudes that I've known claimed that was all handled by the agency. If paying a middle man a small cut of my salary would exempt me from all that nonsense, I'd be very tempted myself. Although, for most of the agency people that I've known, a "small cut" was actually more like 40-50% (knew some guys where a school was paying their agency 40k per month, 22k of which actually got forwarded into their hands)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinisaan Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) If you work through an agency, aren't you exempt from Khurusapha licensing and don't need to get a local work permit, etc? All of the short-term agency dudes that I've known claimed that was all handled by the agency. If paying a middle man a small cut of my salary would exempt me from all that nonsense, I'd be very tempted myself. Although, for most of the agency people that I've known, a "small cut" was actually more like 40-50% (knew some guys where a school was paying their agency 40k per month, 22k of which actually got forwarded into their hands)... When I worked for an agency from 2008 to 2010, always having a work permit before, I already knew that the DoL was on the existing foreign teachers' buds.The agency told the guys who worked there before that they'd only have to pay a fine and go back to work, if somebody would show up. But after discussing the situation, we went on strike, the school administrators were okay with it and we informed our agency. The next day they sent two guys with all the needed documents, we were brought to the local DoL and could finally pick up our work permit two days later. No idea what documents they had to show, maybe there's some money involved as well, only the Lord Buddha knows. When you work in a particular province full time, you'll need a work permit from the local DoL. I don't think this law has changed. Reading your post makes me understand why another TVF member had just started another thread, pointing out that 18 years old working for an agent, or an agency. The legal age being a teacher is 21. A 40- 50 % "small cut" is insane. It almost made me throw up. Edited May 24, 2015 by lostinisaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LecheHombre Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 @lostinisaan - I've never worked for an agency myself, but I've been acquaintances with / known several guys (and a girl) who have. None of them had licenses/waivers, they all said that was not needed in their situation. Also, none of them had work permits in their possession or really knew anything about that, but it is possible that they HAD them but they were being held by their agency. I suppose that the argument could be made that they are working full-time for the agency, NOT the school, and therefore their WP would be issued wherever the agency is based. And the agency skims plenty of money each month to be able to pay off labor dept, immigration officers, etc. etc. if necessary. All in theory of course. As we all know, nothing like that ever happens here, there is no corruption in Thailand......... Small sample size, but all of the agency people that I've known personally were *very* green / inexperienced. Several had college degrees, but none in Ed. But more had no degree at all. All were quite young; I think all that I've known have been under 22 but none as young as 18 (yet -- wouldn't surprise me in the least at this point). In all cases, the school(s) they were teaching had to pay the agency more than they were paying people with direct contracts with the school. But then they actually took home a fraction of that. Several of those that I've known were at the same school over a few different years, each taking home 22k (agency to them) out of 40k (school to agency), and the girl (a very naive American) at another school was actually through a "volunteer" agency where she got 12k paid for "expenses" and the school paid her agency somewhere in the 30-35k range. To me, using an agency seems like a surefire way to piss everybody off. Those agency guys I mentioned taking home 22k/40k have all worked for a school near me. The same school pays direct contract teachers 35k. So, the direct contract people see the school shelling out 40k to an agency for people with NO experience and often NO degree. Fifteen percent more pay (to the agency anyway), for noobs that have no idea what they are doing. Meanwhile, the agency people are equally annoyed when they discover that the direct contract people take home about 13k more per month than they do, for doing the "same job". End result is that the direct contract guys are highly de-motivated (no, sorry, we can't pay you any more than 35k ... never mind that we pay 40k per head to the agency) while the agency hires have a *very* high rate of disappearing / doing a runner partway through the year and leaving the school in a lurch. As a sample, that same school started off last year with 6 agency hires. By the end of the year, *1* was still there. The school is right back on the horse again though, looking for 5 more for this year. "Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results"... Although in defense of the school, I guess it boils down to rolling the dice with an agency or just plain not having any NES teachers. Anyway, /rant OFF. I tend to agree that the whole mess makes me want to throw up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinisaan Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 @lostinisaan - I've never worked for an agency myself, but I've been acquaintances with / known several guys (and a girl) who have. None of them had licenses/waivers, they all said that was not needed in their situation. Also, none of them had work permits in their possession or really knew anything about that, but it is possible that they HAD them but they were being held by their agency. I suppose that the argument could be made that they are working full-time for the agency, NOT the school, and therefore their WP would be issued wherever the agency is based. And the agency skims plenty of money each month to be able to pay off labor dept, immigration officers, etc. etc. if necessary. All in theory of course. As we all know, nothing like that ever happens here, there is no corruption in Thailand......... Small sample size, but all of the agency people that I've known personally were *very* green / inexperienced. Several had college degrees, but none in Ed. But more had no degree at all. All were quite young; I think all that I've known have been under 22 but none as young as 18 (yet -- wouldn't surprise me in the least at this point). In all cases, the school(s) they were teaching had to pay the agency more than they were paying people with direct contracts with the school. But then they actually took home a fraction of that. Several of those that I've known were at the same school over a few different years, each taking home 22k (agency to them) out of 40k (school to agency), and the girl (a very naive American) at another school was actually through a "volunteer" agency where she got 12k paid for "expenses" and the school paid her agency somewhere in the 30-35k range. To me, using an agency seems like a surefire way to piss everybody off. Those agency guys I mentioned taking home 22k/40k have all worked for a school near me. The same school pays direct contract teachers 35k. So, the direct contract people see the school shelling out 40k to an agency for people with NO experience and often NO degree. Fifteen percent more pay (to the agency anyway), for noobs that have no idea what they are doing. Meanwhile, the agency people are equally annoyed when they discover that the direct contract people take home about 13k more per month than they do, for doing the "same job". End result is that the direct contract guys are highly de-motivated (no, sorry, we can't pay you any more than 35k ... never mind that we pay 40k per head to the agency) while the agency hires have a *very* high rate of disappearing / doing a runner partway through the year and leaving the school in a lurch. As a sample, that same school started off last year with 6 agency hires. By the end of the year, *1* was still there. The school is right back on the horse again though, looking for 5 more for this year. "Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results"... Although in defense of the school, I guess it boils down to rolling the dice with an agency or just plain not having any NES teachers. Anyway, /rant OFF. I tend to agree that the whole mess makes me want to throw up... I remember the one colored American, who's the "curriculum designer" for the agency I've worked for. When we had a seminar in Kanchanaburi ( a Thai culture course that isn't even accredited by TCT) he always gave me the same speech that I "only have to pay a small fine" and go back to work afterwards, if somebody would check the school and foreign employees. I understand that "very green" guys do believe all that utter buffalo dung and become teechaas. Now I want to throw up too....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigt3116 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 "The legal age being a teacher is 21" - Do you have a link to this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinisaan Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 "The legal age being a teacher is 21" - Do you have a link to this ? Here's a link that says 20, but there're various threads before that you have to be at least 21 years old. http://site.ksp.or.th/about.php?site=license&SiteMenuID=221 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigt3116 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 "The legal age being a teacher is 21" - Do you have a link to this ? Here's a link that says 20, but there're various threads before that you have to be at least 21 years old. http://site.ksp.or.th/about.php?site=license&SiteMenuID=221 That is for a teacher's licence or waiver, not to be a teacher in a, language school, for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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