SURVEY: Will educational reforms result in significant improvements in the Thai educational system

[Scott]

With Thailand increasing the budget on education and some of the new proposals to improve the standard of education, do you believe that there will be significant improvement in the educational system in the next few years?

Please feel free to post your comment about the educational system and what can be done to improve it.

[Credo]

There may be improvements, but I doubt they will be significant. The country is way too concerned with making sure that students turn out to be good Thai citizens. To do that, they really can't be educated.

[fiddlehead]

How are you going to get the Thai teachers to teach things like world history, geography, English language, etc. if they don't know themselves?

I don't see it changing drastically in one generation until they raise the bar (on these subjects) at the university level for the teachers.

[NongKhaiKid]

Any improvements in education have to be bettered by improving, in fact changing, the attitude of those involved in the profession.

Schools, school directors, teachers etc have a nice little thing going and most definitely oppose change which will affect them, forget the students.

How can changes work if application is left in the hands of the same people with the same attitudes ?

[RasiMike]

I believe, like all ailments, Dr time will probably improve the situation. As public awareness of the problems increase, there will be more attempts to improve the system. Unfortunately, I don't believe it will happen very quickly - certainly not fast enough for me to hope for the best and consider sending my children to a Thai school. They are now being educated in another country.

[BudRight]

Thailand already spends far more on education that what they get out. It's easy to blame the administrators, and many are incompetent but the real problem is that parents won't tolerate effective methods.

Learning is hard work. There's no getting around that, not with the finest teachers and materials. Sometimes it isn't fun. It also requires dividing students by ability and teaching them at their level instead of the 'one size fits none' system we have now. Parents would have neither however, because of the culturally rooted notion that learning has to be both fun and easy - it just isn't realistic. Splitting students by ability in each subject instead of year would make parents lose face if little 'Top' wasn't in the 'top' class in every subject.

Finally, we need to do away with Thais teaching English at all. They really have no idea what they are doing. One of the first things I realized when learning Thai is that non-Thais are a poor source of information about the language. I don't know why Thais expected the converse to be true.

Edited June 14, 2015 by BudRight

[canuckamuck]

There are many fundamental issues that need to addressed before change can happen.

Kids need to be:

Encouraged to ask questions

Allowed to fail

Discouraged from copying

Encouraged to be creative and to have unique ideas

Teachers need to:

Encourage critical thinking

Begin teaching history and the success and failures of other cultures/ideologies

Learn and teach English

Take a scientific approach

Stop getting their self esteem from empty ceremonies where the children are forced to honor them.

Most of this can be achieved without increasing the budget.

[isanbirder]

Canuckamuck is quite right. Far too many misconceptions have to be cleared away before real improvements can be made.

One concept I would like to see vanish into the past is that "teacher is always right".

In one speech to a gathering of secondary school headmasters, I said, "One of my happiest moments as a teacher comes when a student says, politely of course, 'Teacher, I think you're wrong!'"

I've never seen mouths fall open quite so dramatically! They were horrified!

[awayego]

The problems aren't just in the education system - even greater problems are embedded in Thai culture.

To truly change education significantly also requires a change in culture - much more difficult and long-term, one might even say impossible.

[Crazy chef 1]

Nope it won't change because of the above mentioned reasons.if they want to make significant changes they have to sack the existing teaching force and get help from outside and this ain't gonna happen.

But don't make the mistake to overrate the importance of English.english language skills don't equate with education they are important if doing international business but not locally.i grew up in a (not anymore existent) country where we had almost none English lessons and still had one of the best education systems world wide. My home country is world leader in research and development but the majority has (very)limited English skills. The only reason most things get translated to English is the total inability ( laziness)for the most native English to learn another language .

Btw would you consider the average American citizens as educated???

The important points in education are:

Teaching critical and abstract thinking

Questions are welcomed

If you wanna pass you rather move your lazy lil' a$$

Your home country is not the hub of the world

Learn to compare

Learn out of mistakes

Forget about face

Though in summary as stated above...it ain't gonna happen....

[rct99q]

Recent news article described how there was no disciplne in the classrooms anymore. No-zero grading policies, no fail rules that promote students to the next grade even with poor or failing marks, consequence-free disciplne policies, no homework rules, and more. Thailand? Nope, Canada.

I think the education system as a whole (ie, around the world) is in dire need of correction. How does one fix it? More money? In some areas of Canada, US, and the UK, education spending is either secon or third behind healthcare or safety in government spending. So no.

The money just needs to be better spent. More schools, smaller classes, related subjects - people talk about learning world history - yet there are distinct native american indian people and languages which will become extinct in the next couple of years because of the lack of understanding local culture. What good does knowing European History when losing your own takes place. Thais need to know Thai history and culture. They need to know and understand their own language. For most Thai students they will need basic English at most. Those students that want to learn it will find a way to learn it.

There are massive problems in education on a global scale but for Thailand I almost feel as though they need to slow down, develop a stronger base, less concern on how they compare to their neighbors and the world (it is developing their own problems), require all students to complete M6, and reduce their reliance on foreigners. But then again i supplement my childrens education with at home studies as well (both in the west & thailand).

[gerhardveer]

They don't want to change because they don't want educated-well thinking-knowing LoSo's...the existing education system is a part of the power structure...

They don't want to change because they don't want educated, well thinking and much knowing LoSo's...the existing education system is a part of the power structure...

Edited June 15, 2015 by gerhardveer

[ausbeat999]

I agree with all of the above but don't base the english language on america and their lack of education after all they abused most of the original spelling of words,other english speaking countries are far well educated than them over all, In Australia we were taught about everything back in my day, most australians have more perceived idea of world geography , and history than most ,the important dates in history still rattle around my head. but same here in Thailand they don't know too much about other countries or history maybe they don't think it important, but if they don't improve they will lapse back into the abyss. Lack of education creates crime and despair. but you are right, the teachers have to see where the kid are at, and to encourage them. As far as know they don't have scholarships here so the wealthy kids get a far better education than the rest. does that mean they are smarter NO,there would most probably be smarter kids working in the fields, genius is in the person not the money .

[gerhardveer]

"...the teachers have to see where the kid are at, and to encourage them..." --- Thai-teachers who have been educatead in the same sytem ?????? 555555555555555555555555555555

[Farang99]

Until and unless there are great changes in the selection and training of teachers there is no possible way in which education in Thailand can improve.

[ronthai]

NO, Thailand's public schools have no good educated teachers, so what is the point?

Thai kids and teens and adults are NOT allowed to think for themselves, have been indoctrinated for generations.

In this case the world is just lucky that Buddhism is a peaceful "religion", view of life ...

... unlike the Koran, Muslim crap

[quandow]

This same garbage about improving education has been floating around for years and won't be truly reformed until the immense HUBRIS that permeates Thai society is removed. Pride is the obstacle that prevents people from admitting they might be wrong. Only THEN can critical thinking be utilized to honestly improve this broken down system.

Time and time again I have seen local school administrators confronted with the truth of how they were wrong about a decision STILL maintain their choice because of the rod stuck up their anus.

[JimHuaHin]

Having taught at one of Thailand's top universities and having taught Thai students at universities in Australia, I can say that Thailand is blessed with some very intelligent and creative young people.

I have also had the pleasure of meeting, and seeing in action, some outstanding Thai educators, at all levels of the education system. Unfortunately, these great educators are generally not given the support they need from institutional heads, nor from the Ministries of education.

In order for Thailand to move ahead in the area of education, firstly the systems of corruption, cronyism and patronism need to end or be severely restricted. And, secondly, Thais need to get rid of their 'mai pen rai' attitude.

Too many Thai parents do not care about thier children's education, and some believe that they can use systems of corruption, cronyism and/or patronism to get their children degrees and/or jobs when they are old enough.

While living in Thailand I have come across too many youth in high school and university who never do any study or homework, rarely touch a book, and spend hours a day on social media. This reality was brought home to me again this year with two children of a friend. One finished Year 10 earlier this year; her rank was 23/163 in class and her GPA was 2.1. She failed one subject, and all of her friends had failed at least one subject. They all had to do one or two additional study and exam sessions during the long holidays to pass the subjects they failed; they all did little or no study (many of this group (most of whom were aged 15-16 years old) spent their nights in bars and clubs!!) and all were passed. The other 'child' is commencing second year humanities studies at a low ranking university in Bangkok. How he passed last year, I have no idea. He rarely studies, uses assignments and materials from friends a year ahead of him. As he is studying some subjects which I am familar with, I had a look through some of his textbooks and reading materials, and asked him some basic questions about the subject matter (his father, who is a university-educated professional and reasonably proficient in English, helped translate for me). The lad had no idea about what was in his books or reading material; yet he passed.

[wonderingwhy]

The utter most propriety are the teachers. Some don't even know what they are teaching. They teaches English but can't speak proper English. They teaches science but didn't get the concepts of what they are teaching. This government mentioned about taxing tutoring school but will the parents need to pay with their hard-earned money for the tutoring fee if the teachers are doing their joy well? What do you all think?

[pauleddy]

Broadly speaking, education has become devalued globally. This is in no small part due to the financial side of things. Basically, you can always find somewhere to do an MA, if you can pay. So the meritocracy thing, of allowing the bright kids to progress, is eroding everywhere. Combine this also with the lack of vocational training for the mid-range kids in many countries---in the UK, every erstwhile technical college is now a university. Add to this the range of subjects on offer: you can now do an MSc in golf-course management, I believe. In Malaysia, you can certainly do a diploma in gardening, except that they call it Dip. Landscape Architecture (a friend has actually done it!). I did my undergrad degree from 1978-82. It was tough and not undervalued. When I did my MBA in 1996, there was some "mission creep" creeping in. In my class we had one or two people from Africa and Asia who needed to improve their English for a difficult F/T course (MBA), but graduated anyway, with one exception.

In 1952, my father studied for an Ordinary National Cert and then a Higher National Diploma in electrics (UK). With the ONC he walked upon water, and with the HND he was God. Now, these qualifications do not exist. Even MBAs are now dime-a-dozen, although I am sure that a Harvard MBA still opens doors.

But back to the main thread. There is little doubt that there are serious fault-lines in the Thai system. I have written many times about this, in some shape or form. My own belief is that it will take 50 years to put right, although as some clever souls have already suggested, it will never change without fundamental shifts in Thai society, attitudes to graft, the stratified social pecking-order, the ability to pay, teacher training, the huge chip that Thais have on their shoulders and etc (ad infinitum), just fill in your own blanks .....................

I am not sure that ASEAN will have much effect. People tell me that Pinoys or SPoreans will now take Thai jobs. However, I believe that the Thais will come up with some sort of scam which ring-fences important jobs. Thais will interview Thais along with Pinoys and Malays, but will make sure that Thais get the plum jobs. Self-perpetuating status quo?

Eddy

[ausbeat999]

I just want to point out something , not that it is brought up on this topic of conversation but it was a while back, "the english language". When in Laos a few months back doing a visa run, my girl and myself went to a very flash restaurant at the bottom of a hotel "excellent food too"while we were there an entourage of people arrived, a very distinguished Chinese man and his secretary I believe, also very flash, an American man totally obese but rolex watch and he knew his stuff, Finnish man I think from the accent ,A german fellow and 2 high up Laos officials all with chauffeur driven cars waiting outside. We were sitting right beside them and for what I heard they were involved in the Chinese city that is being built in Vientiane. My point is the language they were using was english nothing else, I seen on here a while back with someone saying why is it always english obviously it wasn't his native tongue. its just the way it is here.

[thhMan]

Education has to be more than just schools....

The News media, TV broadcast, Government, Police all have to work at being "less stupid" to make sure that anything the kids learn at school sticks.

Im not sure I can describe Thai culture as anything but a negative influence and way of life... I also dont think this Thai culture is the same as the old Thai culture as it has seemed to change with a "go f---k yourself" attitude that this generation is reflecting.

Sure, its not all Thai's, but its enough to make it noticeable... My Thai wife says the same thing, as she has noticed that what she let "slide" before, just keeps sliding and can only take so much.

Kids cant learn if the Teachers, parents and surroundings follow a different path.... or at least, it makes it hard for them...

Right now, I would be satisfied if they taught children that riding scooters illegally to school, is wrong.... Teachers dont care and continue to let that practice continue... So whats the point?

[MockingJay]

Reforms - in the way the average Thai person interprets it - will achieve nothing. The change must come from within, a complete change of attitude, the understanding and acceptance that you have to work hard for success, etc... There would be so much to say, but it all is fruitless anyway since most Thais think and are convinced of being the greatest, the smartest, the cleverest, the ultimate people on this planet, completely ignoring the fact that they were just lucky to get where they are today with their superficial smiles, make believe, complete ignorance of facts, cheating and by telling blunt lies whenever it suits them fine. However, it will be getting more and more difficult for them to have it their way as the whole world is interconnected now and slowly wakes up to recognize the arrogant and ignorant face behind the mask. Once ASEAN kicks in, Thailand will be flooded by better educated, hard working and determined people who can't be frightened away with blurry visa and work permit rules the way they could do it with us foreigners... Thailand, filled with people educated by teachers who had no clue what they were talking about let alone having proper command of written and spoken English, they will face utter mayhem and be out of jobs in no time. Ignorance is bliss... Congratulations, Thailand - well done!

Edited June 15, 2015 by MockingJay

[aslimversgwm]

Recent news article described how there was no disciplne in the classrooms anymore. No-zero grading policies, no fail rules that promote students to the next grade even with poor or failing marks, consequence-free disciplne policies, no homework rules, and more. Thailand? Nope, Canada.

I think the education system as a whole (ie, around the world) is in dire need of correction. How does one fix it? More money? In some areas of Canada, US, and the UK, education spending is either secon or third behind healthcare or safety in government spending. So no.

The money just needs to be better spent. More schools, smaller classes, related subjects - people talk about learning world history - yet there are distinct native american indian people and languages which will become extinct in the next couple of years because of the lack of understanding local culture. What good does knowing European History when losing your own takes place. Thais need to know Thai history and culture. They need to know and understand their own language. For most Thai students they will need basic English at most. Those students that want to learn it will find a way to learn it.

There are massive problems in education on a global scale but for Thailand I almost feel as though they need to slow down, develop a stronger base, less concern on how they compare to their neighbors and the world (it is developing their own problems), require all students to complete M6, and reduce their reliance on foreigners. But then again i supplement my childrens education with at home studies as well (both in the west & thailand).

Very well stated - as are most of the posts on this topic. What a surprise for me on Thai Visa! Well done everyone for such positive, formulated responses.

[aslimversgwm]

Having taught at one of Thailand's top universities and having taught Thai students at universities in Australia, I can say that Thailand is blessed with some very intelligent and creative young people.

I have also had the pleasure of meeting, and seeing in action, some outstanding Thai educators, at all levels of the education system. Unfortunately, these great educators are generally not given the support they need from institutional heads, nor from the Ministries of education.

In order for Thailand to move ahead in the area of education, firstly the systems of corruption, cronyism and patronism need to end or be severely restricted. And, secondly, Thais need to get rid of their 'mai pen rai' attitude.

Too many Thai parents do not care about thier children's education, and some believe that they can use systems of corruption, cronyism and/or patronism to get their children degrees and/or jobs when they are old enough.

While living in Thailand I have come across too many youth in high school and university who never do any study or homework, rarely touch a book, and spend hours a day on social media. This reality was brought home to me again this year with two children of a friend. One finished Year 10 earlier this year; her rank was 23/163 in class and her GPA was 2.1. She failed one subject, and all of her friends had failed at least one subject. They all had to do one or two additional study and exam sessions during the long holidays to pass the subjects they failed; they all did little or no study (many of this group (most of whom were aged 15-16 years old) spent their nights in bars and clubs!!) and all were passed. The other 'child' is commencing second year humanities studies at a low ranking university in Bangkok. How he passed last year, I have no idea. He rarely studies, uses assignments and materials from friends a year ahead of him. As he is studying some subjects which I am familar with, I had a look through some of his textbooks and reading materials, and asked him some basic questions about the subject matter (his father, who is a university-educated professional and reasonably proficient in English, helped translate for me). The lad had no idea about what was in his books or reading material; yet he passed.

How sad - I simply pity the poor kids who're enmeshed in this corrupting, debased system. I really do hope the 'powers that be' can get to grips with it and turn it around, but.......??

[Srikcir]

There are many fundamental issues that need to addressed before change can happen.

Kids need to be:

Encouraged to ask questions

Allowed to fail

Discouraged from copying

Encouraged to be creative and to have unique ideas

Teachers need to:

Encourage critical thinking

Begin teaching history and the success and failures of other cultures/ideologies

Learn and teach English

Take a scientific approach

Stop getting their self esteem from empty ceremonies where the children are forced to honor them.

Most of this can be achieved without increasing the budget.

I don't see Prayut's 12 Values in your list.

In fact your list suggests conflict.

You should probably volunteer your self to the nearest Happiness Center for attitude adjustment.

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

Education starts at home and not at school. Studies in the US have shown that children in "bad" public schools can perform well if they have the support of their families. If the childrens families don't value education the chance of them performing at school decrease.

In the past all government attemps to improve education ran into the civil service resistance wall. The only way to improve education is by the parents demanding improvement. The question is if Thai parents see the need for improvement in education and if they have the guts to stand up as one against the education mafia. In the past individual parents that stood up against this mafia was cut down by the victimisation of their children.

[ABCer]

I answered NO to the survey question.

Education cannot be 'improved' overnight.

Education cannot be improved overnight by more money.

canuckamuk is right.

Thai need to change the Educators of teachers, than teachers, than kids learning attitudes.

This is minimum about 50 years before the newly educated kids will result.

All this is possible only based on change of cultural traditions going back for centuries.

There will be entirely different Thailand then and I am not sure we will like it.

[VINCENT2012]

to see a change you need various generation, a very strict serious plan and lots of profesional teachers and professors with knowledges ready to teach..... they also need to change their mentality too....so i dont think i'll see the results.

[Si Thea01]

Any improvements in education have to be bettered by improving, in fact changing, the attitude of those involved in the profession.

Schools, school directors, teachers etc have a nice little thing going and most definitely oppose change which will affect them, forget the students.

How can changes work if application is left in the hands of the same people with the same attitudes ?

This may apply to some but not all. Would you like to explain what nice little things these people have going and will most definitely oppose any change that will affect them? My wife is a teacher, very well credentialed and she too has asked what you're on about? She also wants to know what position you hold within the education system that enables you to provide such criticism? 30 years of teaching, two university degrees and a lot of compassion for her students. They even ring her after hours and on weekends to get help when they do not understand the lessons. Pretty poor attitude wouldn't you say?

Are you aware that many Thai teachers not only work their required 5 days but also many hours after they go home and for no compensation, so they can provide the best education to their students. Again, a pretty poor attitude wouldn't you say? You'll also find that, out of their own pockets, many teachers provide food, clothing, shoes for the poorer students and also teach them how to socialise and provide behavioural lessons, which many do not receive at home. Again, a very poor attitude.

Since the announcement by the education department, she has been required to attend meetings three days a week, Friday to Sunday, where she is provided details of the additional curriculum that she is required to provide other teachers in her group so they can provide more detailed lessons to their students. She also works into the early hours of the morning, most nights, in order that she gain further knowledge that will enable her to provide the necessary education to her school's students. So yes, given all of the above she has to be one of those whom you seem to think have a poor attitude and do not care for their students. Is that right?

And yes, it will take time but with the dedication of many teachers that I know, it will eventually come to fruition. Unfortunately, the problem is not only with some teachers, not all, but also the parents, many of whom are poorly educated and cannot assist in the education of their own children, unlike many of us westerners, who had parents who could. It seems many forget that education not only relates to schools but at home and amongst one's peers.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Si Thea01